Most controversial cruise opinion??

[midgetcoach]

8 hours ago, pcakes122 said:

This ^^^^ is a concept that people who are fighting over "the math" and casino conspiracy theories just can't seem to comprehend.  It's not that we have figured out some secret winning streak prediction theory to beat the odds and defy "the math."  We just walk away when we've hit the break-even point.  I've been on 10-day cruises where I only played the first three nights because the slots were terrible and I played out my budget. 

 

Yes being able to walk away is a big part of playing. Whether it's quitting when your hit your loss limit, leaving with your winnings or walking when you get back to even on a choppy game. It's one of the big parts of playing.

My wife and I were playing on the NCL Jewel a few weeks age. By the third day it was obvious the slots were not paying at all. We decreased our daily buy-in by 60%. Day four we just quit playing. I will say this was the worst paying slots I have ever seen land or sea. We did not see or talk with a single winner or break even player. Yes walking away is very important.

[fenny7cats]

I dont like that you cant dance to all the good stuff from the 70'/80' etc until the nightclub opens at say 11.30 pm - but that's way too late - why cant I dance at 8.30 pm?  (and I dont want to dance to a mediocre lounge act)

 

I love decorating my cabin door/inside/balcony with balloons and birthday banners, confetti etc - but hate when the cabin cleaner removes it.  I want to celebrate my special occasion for more than one day.

[MrsTocko]

1 hour ago, fenny7cats said:

I love decorating my cabin door/inside/balcony with balloons and birthday banners, confetti etc - but hate when the cabin cleaner removes it.  I want to celebrate my special occasion for more than one day.

 

I have been successful with a door flag that DH got for me on our door.  I have a hook magnet for the top and then 2 bulldog ones for the bottom.  We buy magnets as souvenirs and then use them to stick stuff to the walls, (notes, shore excursion tickets, dailies....)

[tetleytea]

13 hours ago, pcakes122 said:

It's clear you are triggered by gambling for whatever reason, so it's probably healthy for you to ignore the gambling discussion.  Your projections about people that play and get comps really just sound like sour grapes at this point. (Btw, booked a 10-day to Turks & Caicos out of NYC today on that offer I received in email yesterday- yay me!👍🏻)

 

What on earth are you talking about this time?    There is no "projection".  People play and get comps.  And where are you getting this idea that I'm just jealous because I didn't get to book a cruise at 3X the market price?   By your own admission, you have no "special strategy to beat the odds".  

 

No one's exactly holding a gun to your head to say anything, either.

 

 

[Sailing12Away]

On 8/8/2022 at 7:27 PM, Travelling2Some said:

I have a hard time with the lovely and well-meaning crew when I turn down desserts.  They bring me fruit thinking I'm on a diet and will eat that.  I hate to waste food but I don't want fruit and didn't ask for it 😞

Simple fix for that... tell them you're headed to the bar for a frozen cocktail dessert and that you'd prefer to drink your calories than eat them.

 

5 pages of replies related to gambling since the last time I checked in has now led me to the definitive conclusion that I do not like having a casino on the ship at all, or people who want to spend 5+ pages of forum posts debating it on board with me either.

[UKstages]

On 8/8/2022 at 7:27 PM, tetleytea said:

Law of averages.  Do you understand law of averages?  

 

why, yes, yes i do.

 

what you call "the law of averages" isn't actually a thing. there is no statistical basis for it. every gaming decision in a casino is an independent event that does not rely on past performance.

 

in fact, "the law of averages" is more commonly referred to as "the gambler's fallacy."

Edited August 15, 2022 by UKstages

[UPNYGuy]

On 8/10/2022 at 10:20 PM, Sailing12Away said:

5 pages of replies related to gambling since the last time I checked in has now led me to the definitive conclusion that I do not like having a casino on the ship at all, or people who want to spend 5+ pages of forum posts debating it on board with me either.

 

Yup! Our last cruise was on Carnival (AK on Miracle out of San Francisco), and the couple talking to us was telling us how they were player's club (CCL CAS equivalent) elite (top tier) and they got their cabin comped, beverage package comped...etc. I said "thats great! You spend 20k in the casino per cruise to get about 5k in services comped. How is this breaking even?"  They promptly left. 

[tetleytea]

54 minutes ago, UKstages said:

 

why, yes, yes i do.

 

what you call "the law of averages" isn't actually a thing. there is no statistical basis for it. every gaming decision in a casino is an independent event that does not rely on past performance.

 

in fact, "the law of averages" is more commonly referred to as "the gambler's fallacy."

 

That is not law of averages at all.  Law of averages, expressed in statistical terms, is that your standard deviation asymptotically approaches zero the more identical events you roll into one.  

[pcakes122]

1 hour ago, UPNYGuy said:

 

Yup! Our last cruise was on Carnival (AK on Miracle out of San Francisco), and the couple talking to us was telling us how they were player's club (CCL CAS equivalent) elite (top tier) and they got their cabin comped, beverage package comped...etc. I said "thats great! You spend 20k in the casino per cruise to get about 5k in services comped. How is this breaking even?"  They promptly left. 

Wow, sounds like CCL has a terrible casino program! 😲 They'd get ALOT more from NCL CAS with a $20K bankroll! 

[tetleytea]

That's a 25% comp rate, which is about in line with the website I was given (which said the industry standard is 30%), or the website I Googled (which said 20-40%).   If NCL is comping more, I think that's smart.  There's a big difference between a casino comping a hotel room vs. a cruiseline comping you a cruise (where they think you are going to gamble more).

[UPNYGuy]

1 hour ago, pcakes122 said:

Wow, sounds like CCL has a terrible casino program! 😲 They'd get ALOT more from NCL CAS with a $20K bankroll! 

 

20k was an estimate on my part, but it likely isn't too far off. 

[pcakes122]

10 hours ago, tetleytea said:

That's a 25% comp rate, which is about in line with the website I was given (which said the industry standard is 30%), or the website I Googled (which said 20-40%).   If NCL is comping more, I think that's smart.  There's a big difference between a casino comping a hotel room vs. a cruiseline comping you a cruise (where they think you are going to gamble more).

You didn't fully read what you google'd. The comp rate is 20 to 40% of the theoretical (or projected) loss - NOT the play or bankroll.

 

I'm going to suggest you stop trying to figure this out. Many of us have tried to explain this to you a 100 ways from Sunday and you're not getting it. Since you don't gamble, just don't worry about it! 

[midgetcoach]

5 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

I'm going to suggest you stop trying to figure this out. Many of us have tried to explain this to you a 100 ways from Sunday and you're not getting it. Since you don't gamble, just don't worry about it! 

Thanks pcakes, that's a lot nicer than I was going to say it.

[kylenyc]

Just saying thanks to the gamblers. Learned a lot, especially the tip on the comp calculator. Given my game preference (black jack and roulette) and style of play, the theoretical loss, entertainment value of gambling, it's worth for me to spend a little time at the casino if I stick to my budget. Unfortunately, I don't wager enough or long enough to get decent comps at an NCL casino. Then again, I might shift around and concentrate more of my entertainment budget on the casino along with time/money management, and maybe get some small comp out of it.

 

I look at gambling purely for it's entertainment value. Do I spend a few hundred dollars at the casino and which game can I play and play well for the longest amount of time as compared to spending the equivalent elsewhere.

 

P.S. Picked up a few tips from the youtube videos. Things like when to use your casino card and when not to. Don't use your casino card if you're only there to pass the time for a few minutes. This hurts your the theo calculation. Use a single card and share with your partner if you have one. Stuff like that.

Edited August 15, 2022 by kylenyc

[Beach Life 1]

14 hours ago, UPNYGuy said:

 

Yup! Our last cruise was on Carnival (AK on Miracle out of San Francisco), and the couple talking to us was telling us how they were player's club (CCL CAS equivalent) elite (top tier) and they got their cabin comped, beverage package comped...etc. I said "thats great! You spend 20k in the casino per cruise to get about 5k in services comped. How is this breaking even?"  They promptly left. 

Not trying to cause a controversy.   I don't know how the subject of comps came up in your discussion,  but if I was  having a conversation with you,  about comps and Casino play,  and you made that remark to me,  I think I would have promptly left too.  Not because what you said was right,  but because  your remark sounded rather condescending and rude.   You have no idea how much they spent,  and believe me,  if they had spent $20,000 of their own money,   they would have received a cabin and comps worth much more then $5,000.

[weltek]

Controversial opinion: A standard balcony isn't worth it, unless you can get a corner one that has a little more space. If the price difference is substantial, I'd rather pay for an oceanview and use the money for VIBE passes.

Large balconies are worth it.

Edited August 15, 2022 by weltek

[pcakes122]

30 minutes ago, kylenyc said:

Just saying thanks to the gamblers. Learned a lot, especially the tip on the comp calculator.

YW! And a note on the comp calculator...say it says that your daily theo is $XXX so your expected daily comp is $100.  For cruises, multiply that times the # of days in the cruise you want (let's say 7.) That would translate into an expected comp cruise worth $700 or less (per person cruise fare without taxes or extras.)

 

So let's say you are looking at a 7-day Alaska cruise where the lowest Inside cabin starts at $899 per person. If you called CAS they'd probably tell you sorry, no offer for you. BUT, say you picked a 7-day Bahama cruise which starts at $699 per person. In that case, you could expect a comp Inside for the week.

 

THIS IS NOT AN EXACT SCIENCE and NCL doesn't use that comp calculator! BUT it is a good gauge of what to expect and can help you choose potential comp cruises. 

 

It also is critical that people are being honest with themselves about their play.  If someone always plays $1 a spin on slots and OCCASIONALLY goes up to $2, don't enter that you play $2 a spin to estimate your potential comps. Lol (NCL has records showing your ACTUAL play and is basing your theo on that.)

[Swells1]

On 8/9/2022 at 12:06 PM, chengkp75 said:

And, as another attempt to steer this back to the OP's question, I'll chum the waters with this:

 

What I love that others hate:  Old muster drill

What I hate that others love:  New muster drill

 

Enjoy

So, we're not going back to the old drill? I kind of assumed things would gradually go back to pre-pandemic methods. 

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, Swells1 said:

So, we're not going back to the old drill? I kind of assumed things would gradually go back to pre-pandemic methods. 

I can only hope.

[tetleytea]

1 hour ago, pcakes122 said:

NCL doesn't use that comp calculator! BUT it is a good gauge of what to expect and can help you choose potential comp cruises. 

 

 

Board:   pay attention at what is being claimed.    According to this particular comp calculator (which is not NCL's, but it is claimed it is a good gauge and an industry standard), casinos pay back 30% of projected losses back as free cruises and such.  This is admitted.

 

Meanwhile, it is asserted that there is "confusion" as to what constitutes projected losses vs. the sum total of all your bets (or "bankroll", as it has been called).   If you read higher up, CCL gave back $5k in freebies in exchange for gambling $20k.   That's 25%.  The "industry standard" is supposed to be 30%.  That was called "bad"--and indeed 25% is, after all, less than 30%.   But that is supposing the $20k is your losses.

 

Suppose the $20k is your bankroll.   Now suppose you don't lose everything you bet, but that CCL pays back 50% of your bets in winnings (we can adjust that 50% up or down later).  If you wager $20k, then you win back 50% of that, or $10k.   That means the $5k in freebies you got is in fact *50%* of your losses--NOT 25%.    How is 50% payback "poor", when you just got done saying 30% is "standard"?   Moreso, NCL allegedly pays back even more than that.

 

Let's tweak the payouts upward, to 90%.  You bankroll $20k, you win back $18k.   CCL is now comping you $5k on $2k losses.   Do you truly believe CCL is really giving away more than double what you lost?   Regularly?  Come on.    And that is what is being called "bad'.   So what, then, is Norwegian paying back in free cruises and such?   Triple??     Keep in mind, these are the same people saying that paying back 30% of losses in the form of freebies is standard.  Now we have them paying back even more than twice what you lose, and that is considered "bad".

 

[tetleytea]

2 hours ago, jezabel80 said:

Not trying to cause a controversy.   I don't know how the subject of comps came up in your discussion,  but if I was  having a conversation with you,  about comps and Casino play,  and you made that remark to me,  I think I would have promptly left too.  Not because what you said was right,  but because  your remark sounded rather condescending and rude.   You have no idea how much they spent,  and believe me,  if they had spent $20,000 of their own money,   they would have received a cabin and comps worth much more then $5,000.

 

jezebel, we have not talked before.   Instead of promptly leaving, you could offer up your set of data for the rest of us?   Your experience in the casino is useful information (the other guy's feedback is useful too, though).

 

You believe they would have received comps much more than $5k on that $20k.  By "spent" that hypothetical $20k, do you mean they bet a total of $20k over the course of their gambling visit, or lost $20k?   We can calculate the percentages of the comps vs. gambling losses very easily from there; but first we have to have people speak openly and honestly about their results.   That's why we have 5 pages of discourse on this thread.

 

Actually we do have an idea of how much you wagered and lost, because we have other reports of how much it takes to achieve an elite tier.  We might not know the exact numbers for any one person's losses, but we have an idea.  And to achieve elite status, you have to place a lot of bets, so we know your projected losses vs. actual losses are not going to be terribly far off from each other.

 

It's not intended as condescending--they were probably just trying to help.  At the very least, they were just trying to figure out exactly why you see it differently.  Can you see that we all reasonably believe the casino will offer you free stuff to try and incentivize you to lose more--and that the value of the free stuff will normally be less than what you lost?   We all expect that.  That is nothing personal towards you.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by tetleytea

[Beach Life 1]

7 minutes ago, tetleytea said:

 

jezebel, we have not talked before.   Instead of promptly leaving, you could offer up your set of data for the rest of us?   Your experience in the casino is useful information (the other guy's feedback is useful too, though).

 

You believe they would have received comps much more than $5k on that $20k.  By "spent" that hypothetical $20k, do you mean they bet a total of $20k over the course of their gambling visit, or lost $20k?   We can calculate the percentages of the comps vs. gambling losses very easily from there; but first we have to have people speak openly and honestly about their results.   That's why we have 5 pages of discourse on this thread.

 

Actually we do have an idea of how much you wagered and lost, because we have other reports of how much it takes to achieve an elite tier.  We might not know the exact numbers for any one person's losses, but we have an idea.  And to achieve elite status, you have to place a lot of bets, so we know your projected losses vs. actual losses are not going to be terribly far off from each other.

 

It's not intended as condescending--they were probably just trying to help.  At the very least, they were just trying to figure out exactly why you see it differently.  Can you see that we all reasonably believe the casino will offer you free stuff to try and incentivize you to lose more--and that the value of the free stuff will normally be less than what you lost?   We all expect that.  That is nothing personal towards you.

 

I'm not taking what you said personal.  But a few things,  you might have misread from the post regarding CCL.  The poster said,  the people he was talking to  spent $20,000, and only got $5,000 in cabin/comps.   If they SPENT  money,  that means it was THEIR money.     Then he came back and said,  well,  $20,000 was an estimate on his part.   So obviously,  he doesn't know how much they spent.  Why would you think the poster did not intend anything condescending,  but was trying to help.   I think if these people he was talking to,  are Elite status,  and get comps,  they really don't need his help figuring out how much the Casino will give them.  A non gambler,  telling someone how the Casino comps work, is like a civilian telling a fire fighter how to put out fires. I think a fire fighter would know more about  how to put out fires; more then a stranger he just met on the street.  I'm not saying a gambler always wins or get comps.  That is impossible.   But when I look at the points on my Casino card,  on the last day of a cruise,  I can pretty much figure what kind of comped Cruise I can get next time.  Also,   we plan how much money we are going to spend based on how much the cruise would have cost if we paid outright.  If we are in a suite that would have cost $10,000 for two people,  and we don't go over that amount,  then it's a wash.  If we spend more then  $10,000 of OUR money,  then,  yes,  we lost.

[tetleytea]

16 minutes ago, jezabel80 said:

I'm not taking what you said personal.  But a few things,  you might have misread from the post regarding CCL.  The poster said,  the people he was talking to  spent $20,000, and only got $5,000 in cabin/comps.   If they SPENT  money,  that means it was THEIR money.     Then he came back and said,  well,  $20,000 was an estimate on his part.   So obviously,  he doesn't know how much they spent.  Why would you think the poster did not intend anything condescending,  but was trying to help.  

How do you perceive that as misread?   Yes, of course it was their money (prior to spending it, of course).  That's what spending is.   But you said that if they spent $20k, then they would have gotten a lot more than $5k in comps.   By "spent", do you mean gambling losses, or they bet a sum total of $20k?   I am not making any assumptions:  I am asking you.   How much do you estimate they would have gotten comped?   On that $20k they lost?  Or bet?

 

 

"I think if these people he was talking to,  are Elite status,  and get comps,  they really don't need his help figuring out how much the Casino will give them.  A non gambler,  telling someone how the Casino comps work, is like a civilian telling a fire fighter how to put out fires. I think a fire fighter would know more about  how to put out fires; more then a stranger he just met on the street."

 

Not exactly.  Gambling is a potentially addictive behavior.   It's more like a non-drug user telling a drug user how drugs work  (which has been done to me before, by the way.  I was told I was in no position to talk about drugs unless I did them.  Which obviously I summarily rejected that idea).

 

 

"But when I look at the points on my Casino card,  on the last day of a cruise,  I can pretty much figure what kind of comped Cruise I can get next time.  Also,   we plan how much money we are going to spend based on how much the cruise would have cost if we paid outright.  If we are in a suite that would have cost $10,000 for two people,  and we don't go over that amount,  then it's a wash.  If we spend more then  $10,000 of OUR money,  then,  yes,  we lost."

 

That.   That data.   How many points on your casino card?   What did you net?   What is your estimated total amount of bets (I say "estimated", because more often than not gamblers don't know the exact sum total of their own bets, either).  

 

I respect that it is YOUR money to lose, spend, whatever...and indeed, it helps me anyway.  After all, the more money the casino pulls in, the lower my own cruise fare.  But a few things:

 

1)   If you have family members who are not on board with it, that is not victimless behavior.  And they are not necessarily here, on CC, to defend themselves.    And....

2)   We all know that, indeed, the casinos are making money, and we know where they are making it from:   from you.   And that means there is no way the total of all the comps they give out exceeds people's average losses.  

 

My issue is that these comps are being marketed as somehow exceeding people's losses when we know that cannot be true, and then other people go off and spend THEIR money on that non-truth.   The variance aspect of people's individual results only serves to further obfuscate that fact.  

 

If I meet you, a stranger in a cruise bar, I don't know whether you are a victim of that marketing, a perpetrator, know and don't care, or...what....   That's why I ask the question.

 

[ColeThornton]

Well heck, this thread really went off the cliff.   

[scooter6139]

My NEW controversial opinion:  All gambling chat should get it's own thread.  😛