HELP - Need a "supervisor" or "higher up" contact with NCL to try to get credit from a prior cruise we cancelled due to covid

[BlueLobster]

Friends cancelled a cruise a while back and the NCL person did not tell them they could ask to "try" to get their $$ back, OR get cruise credit.  They thought if they didn't get the $$ back, they'd get the credit instead.  The 1st phone call was recorded.  The 2nd call, when the wife called back to clarify they'd want the credit instead, was NOT.  NCL has refused to give them any credit back (and this was a 2 week Panama Canal Cruise and very expensive).  Any suggestions on what they can do next, or a "better" person to contact at NCL would be appreciated.  Thank you!

[dandelpino]

https://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/norwegian-cruise-line-ncl/

[MoCruiseFan]

1) As you said they were told they could TRY to get a refund.  They were not told they WOULD get a refund.

 

2) you have absolutely no way of knowing which calls are and are not recorded.  All calls MAY be recorded but that does not mean any specific call IS recorded.

 

3) by your description of the events, it sounds like this all happened after final payment thus no refund is due.

4) You may or may not be able to plea for a refund, good luck.

[hallux]

First question - was it a cancellation due to a positive test or due to concern over cruising with COVID still present?

 

If it was due to a positive test they needed to be specific about that during the cancellation call.

 

As others said - cancellations (except in the case of a positive test, which I assume needs to have proof provided) are subject to cancellation terms in the cruise contract.  Any credit or refund beyond what is allowed in the cancellation policy would fall back to the passenger's travel insurance.

[SmarkVacation]

https://www.ncl.com/refund-and-cancellation-policy-covid-19

 

There is a link at the bottom of the page to submit a case form.  

 

"*All refund requests must be made within 90 days of the date you cancelled your voyage or the schedule embarkation date, whichever is earlier, or you may only be entitled to a Future Cruise Credit for the amount specified. To apply for a refund please go to Case Submission Form."

[mscdivina2016]

5 hours ago, BlueLobster said:

Friends cancelled a cruise a while back and the NCL person did not tell them they could ask to "try" to get their $$ back, OR get cruise credit.  They thought if they didn't get the $$ back, they'd get the credit instead.  The 1st phone call was recorded.  The 2nd call, when the wife called back to clarify they'd want the credit instead, was NOT.  NCL has refused to give them any credit back (and this was a 2 week Panama Canal Cruise and very expensive).  Any suggestions on what they can do next, or a "better" person to contact at NCL would be appreciated.  Thank you!

Are you saying that you recorded the call?

 

If not you are out of luck. The recording is their property and they do not have to give it to you.

 

Only if you initiate a legal case could you possibly get it in discovery but the cost is prohibitive unless you had a $20,000 cabin.

[tetleytea]

Someone else on another thread here said they already initiated legal action for a similar reason, so if there is a consistent behavior on NCL's part that does not stand up to legal scrutiny, you guys could go in together on it.   It's the last thing I would want for any of you, but I will give this much:   if NCL gets served papers, you will get the supervisor and higher-up contact you were looking for.  Definitely that.

 

About telephone recording, Washington and Florida both are two-party consent states.  You are not allowed to record them without their permission, but neither are they allowed to record you without yours. If you get some automated message along the lines of, "this call may be recorded for quality assurance purposes," then they just consented to the call being recorded.

 

[Heronymous]

This is not true. The laws of the state where you are creating the recording from govern whether it is legal to record a call or not. If you are in a one party consent state, and you are a party to the call, you can record the call even if the state you are calling is a two party consent state.  Florida has no jurisdiction over someone who lives in NY, so if you live in NY and are party to the call,  you can record a call to FL without any issue. 

[scooter6139]

13 minutes ago, Heronymous said:

This is not true. The laws of the state where you are creating the recording from govern whether it is legal to record a call or not. If you are in a one party consent state, and you are a party to the call, you can record the call even if the state you are calling is a two party consent state.  Florida has no jurisdiction over someone who lives in NY, so if you live in NY and are party to the call,  you can record a call to FL without any issue. 

I don't think this is true.  You call me in Washington State, you must get my consent to record the call.  If I don't consent, you must either terminate the recording or end the call.

[tetleytea]

I am treading a thin line not to be construed as giving legal advice, but basically I agree with scooter.  You can Google "recording interstate phone calls", and while there are licensed attorneys basically saying what  Heronymous is saying (i.e. Heronymous is not wrong), the maze of laws in effect seem to net-result that the more stringent of the two states' laws apply.

[hallux]

28 minutes ago, Heronymous said:

This is not true. The laws of the state where you are creating the recording from govern whether it is legal to record a call or not. If you are in a one party consent state, and you are a party to the call, you can record the call even if the state you are calling is a two party consent state.  Florida has no jurisdiction over someone who lives in NY, so if you live in NY and are party to the call,  you can record a call to FL without any issue. 

 

9 minutes ago, scooter6139 said:

I don't think this is true.  You call me in Washington State, you must get my consent to record the call.  If I don't consent, you must either terminate the recording or end the call.

And now we see why Google has stopped allowing call recording apps to work on Android.  The laws vary so wildly from location to location and there's so much confusion it's better/easier to just block it entirely.

 

 

[tetleytea]

5 minutes ago, hallux said:

 

And now we see why Google has stopped allowing call recording apps to work on Android.  The laws vary so wildly from location to location and there's so much confusion it's better/easier to just block it entirely.

 

 

 

IMHO, the call is interstate.   What does the U.S. Constitution say?   Federal law has jurisdiction.   I brought up Florida and Washington because that's where the Norwegian phone numbers always seem to be from.  Although California (Princess) and Las Vegas occasionally come up.

Edited August 15, 2022 by tetleytea

[SeaShark]

Welcome to Cruise Critic...where you can simply ask for a point of contact to resolve a problem and instead get a bunch on Internet lawyers arguing about recording a phone call. 🙄

[tetleytea]

It happens.  Over on the Premier Plus drink package thread, people are talking about the price of oil.  I'm pretty sure they don't intend to drink the oil.  

 

No harm, no argument intended.  

[Yesimapirate]

Ncl is a public company.   They're required to publish a corporate phone number.   Have your friend spend some time on Google and they will find it.  Then you cam escalate to your hearts content. 

[MoCruiseFan]

Read the cruise contract at https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Guest-Ticket-Contract-11-2015.pdf paying particular attention to section 10b before you waste any money on a lawyer.  Bottom line on a refund is that it all depends on when you were to sail and when you cancelled. It is as simple as that.  Since you did not provide that info, no one here can give you any firm advice on any potential refund.  Again good luck with your efforts.

[NW Pacific]

Very upsetting post.  Did your friends cancel due to having tested positive 14 days prior to cruise? Have read that is covered under NCl Safe and Sail Plan, cruise credit in amount of cruise to be given back as an FCC.  Is that what they tried and were denied?   At what point did they call?   I worry about all assurance given by NCL and not coming through.  Could they try a reverse charge from their credit card company?  am only looking for more information, since we have a scheduled cruise in September, and the roll of the dice in the wrong direction, we could have covid before departure.  WE have travel insurance through NCL  (never again) but that does not add covid protection, unless you have a physician sign off that you are unable to travel.  There is some   protection I see in the cancel for any reason through NCL insurance, get 75% back in a FCC with standard and 90% back in a FCC  with premium coverage.

[MoCruiseFan]

Contract section 10b)...  (b) Other Suits: Any and all disputes, claims, or controversies whatsoever, other than for personal injury, illness or death of a Guest, whether brought in personam or in rem or based on contract, tort, statutory, constitutional or other legal rights, including but not limited to alleged violation of civil rights, discrimination, consumer or privacy laws, or for any losses, damages or expenses, relating to or in any way arising out of or connected with this Contract or Guest's cruise, no matter how described, pleaded or styled, between the Guest and Carrier, with the sole exception of claims brought and litigated in small claims court, shall be referred to and resolved exclusively by binding arbitration pursuant to the United Nations Convention on the Recognition and Enforcement of Foreign Arbitral Awards (New York 1958), 21 U.S.T. 2517, 330 U.N.T.S. 3, 1970 U.S.T. LEXIS 115, 9 U.S.C. §§ 202-208 ("the Convention") and the Federal Arbitration Act, 9 U.S.C. §§ 1, et seq., ("FAA") solely in Miami-Dade County, Florida, U.S.A. to the exclusion of any other forum. Guest hereby consents to jurisdiction and waives any venue or other objection that may be available to any such arbitration proceeding in Miami-Dade, Florida. The arbitration shall be administered by National Arbitration and Mediation (“NAM”) under its Comprehensive Dispute Resolution Rules and Procedures and the Fee Schedule in effect at the time of filing the dispute with NAM, which are deemed to be incorporated herein by reference. NAM can be contacted at 800-358-2550, attention Commercial Claims Dept., 990 Stewart Avenue, First Floor, Garden City, NY 11530, to respond to any questions regarding the arbitration process, as well as to request a copy of NAM’s current Comprehensive Dispute Resolution Rules and Procedures and the Fee Schedule.  NEITHER PARTY WILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO A JURY TRIAL OR TO ENGAGE IN PRE-ARBITRATION DISCOVERY EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN THE APPLICABLE ARBITRATION RULES AND HEREIN, OR OTHERWISE TO LITIGATE THE CLAIM IN ANY COURT (OTHER THAN SMALL CLAIMS COURT). THE ARBITRATOR'S DECISION WILL BE FINAL AND BINDING. OTHER RIGHTS THAT GUEST OR CARRIER WOULD HAVE IN COURT ALSO MAY NOT BE AVAILABLE IN ARBITRATION. An award rendered by an arbitrator may be entered in any court having jurisdiction under the Convention or FAA. Carrier and Guest further agree to permit the taking of a deposition under oath of the Guest asserting the claim, or for whose benefit the claim is asserted, in any such arbitration. In the event this provision is deemed unenforceable by an arbitrator or court of competent jurisdiction for any reason, then and only then the provisions of Section 14 below governing venue and jurisdiction shall exclusively apply to any lawsuit involving claims described in this Section. In any event, no claim described in this Section may be brought against Carrier unless written notice giving full particulars of the claim is delivered to the Carrier within thirty (30) days of termination of the Cruise and legal action on such claim is commenced within six (6) months from the date the claim arose, notwithstanding any provision of law of any state or country to the contrary. 

[MoCruiseFan]

5 hours ago, NW Pacific said:

Very upsetting post.  Did your friends cancel due to having tested positive 14 days prior to cruise? Have read that is covered under NCl Safe and Sail Plan, cruise credit in amount of cruise to be given back as an FCC.  Is that what they tried and were denied?   At what point did they call?   I worry about all assurance given by NCL and not coming through.  Could they try a reverse charge from their credit card company?  am only looking for more information, since we have a scheduled cruise in September, and the roll of the dice in the wrong direction, we could have covid before departure.  WE have travel insurance through NCL  (never again) but that does not add covid protection, unless you have a physician sign off that you are unable to travel.  There is some   protection I see in the cancel for any reason through NCL insurance, get 75% back in a FCC with standard and 90% back in a FCC  with premium coverage.

Filing a claim/dispute with the CC company would be attempted fraud.  The cruise line is doing absolutely nothing but going by the agreed to contract.

The insurance you have was sold THROUGH NCL but it is not NCL's insurance.  The insurance is provided by a 3rd party (ANON I think) only as a service/convenience to passengers.

[MotownVoice]

13 hours ago, tetleytea said:

Someone else on another thread here said they already initiated legal action for a similar reason, so if there is a consistent behavior on NCL's part that does not stand up to legal scrutiny, you guys could go in together on it.   It's the last thing I would want for any of you, but I will give this much:   if NCL gets served papers, you will get the supervisor and higher-up contact you were looking for.  Definitely that.

 

About telephone recording, Washington and Florida both are two-party consent states.  You are not allowed to record them without their permission, but neither are they allowed to record you without yours. If you get some automated message along the lines of, "this call may be recorded for quality assurance purposes," then they just consented to the call being recorded.

 

 

Once litigation begins, the last entity you will ever hear from again will be NCL, let alone an executive.  You might hear from their attorneys, or more specifically, your attorney … will hear from their attorneys.  

[tetleytea]

 

This reminds me of a behavior from a timeshare company I dealt with.  They said I had 2 weeks to pull out of a contract...but then gave me the runaround and would never give me the means to notify them I wanted to pull out.   And if I tried to call or talk to the right people, they would only try and talk me out of it--but they would never be "notified".   I wasn't putting up with that nonsense.  In the end, I found a "Contact Us" link on their website, told them in writing I was pulling out, and if they had any questions THEY could call this phone number I was given.   Then I went to the Mastercard and disputed the charge.   There's no law or contract provision which says I have to notify only certain people within the company whom they want.

 

They agreed not to contest the dispute.

[prov2727]

The website above does contain emails for Harry Sommer and Katty Byrd. I just sent in an appeal via email and hard copy. I have little hope. NCL will do what they want and while they are hemorrhaging money, that's going to be even less than usual. Dear cruise gods, I would be happy to be proven wrong. 🙏

Edited August 16, 2022 by prov2727

[prov2727]

FYI- emails sent to Harry Sommer get sent to Guest Experience which seems to be the exact same thing as Guest Relations.

 

[tetleytea]

Wishing you the best.