Left bag in bar, casino voucher taken..

[Baron Barracuda]

You can argue about what legally constitutes a crime  all you want but aboard ship Royal has wide latitude in determining violation of the guest code of conduct.  I'm certain removing items from another guest's bag would not be tolerated.    

[BND]

20 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Once again, elements, if the car is locked and must be broken into vs doors unlocked. This is besides the point though, it seems you want to take your frustration out on me because I exposed you to the red pill and you are living in a blue pill world. Good day, I'm done here. 

You don't have to "break in" to steal something. You really don't get it do you?  I see you using moral equivalency here. And, I'm guessing to justify actions of your own.

Edited August 16, 2022 by BND

[cruisingguy007]

2 minutes ago, DCPIV said:

 

You didn't click the link, did you?

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=485.&lawCode=PEN

 

PENAL CODE - PEN

PART 1. OF CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS [25 - 680.4]

  ( Part 1 enacted 1872. )

  

TITLE 13. OF CRIMES AGAINST PROPERTY [450 - 593g]

  ( Title 13 enacted 1872. )

  

 

CHAPTER 5. Larceny [484 - 502.9]

  ( Chapter 5 enacted 1872. )

  

485.  

One who finds lost property under circumstances which give him knowledge of or means of inquiry as to the true owner, and who appropriates such property to his own use, or to the use of another person not entitled thereto, without first making reasonable and just efforts to find the owner and to restore the property to him, is guilty of theft.

(Amended by Stats. 1927, Ch. 619.)

 

"reasonable" is your problem and must be overcome, easier said than done in the real world. Could be as simple as looking around, it's certainly unreasonable to expect someone to ask everyone in the casino and what's to stop someone else from saying it's theirs?  You also need proof that the person took it and that someone else didn't; or that someone else didn't take it then lose it themselves (chain of custody) and it was found again by someone else. So many possibilities to meet the burden, short of someone saying "I didn't make a reasonable effort to find the owner" it's all but impossible to prove. Now if you find a sealed bank bag with transport courier/bank info in a parking lot, it would be harder to deny this but one must also be captured taking such property clearly and with no ambiguity about identity. There are cameras everywhere but sometimes the footage is too far away, blocked by glare, people and other items. Clear evidence is needed. Using a tile type tag would be the best protection one could use to recover lost/stolen items.     

[PompeySailor]

8 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

"reasonable" is your problem and must be overcome, easier said than done in the real world. Could be as simple as looking around, it's certainly unreasonable to expect someone to ask everyone in the casino and what's to stop someone else from saying it's theirs?  You also need proof that the person took it and that someone else didn't; or that someone else didn't take it then lose it themselves (chain of custody) and it was found again by someone else. So many possibilities to meet the burden, short of someone saying "I didn't make a reasonable effort to find the owner" it's all but impossible to prove. Now if you find a sealed bank bag with transport courier/bank info in a parking lot, it would be harder to deny this but one must also be captured taking such property clearly and with no ambiguity about identity. There are cameras everywhere but sometimes the footage is too far away, blocked by glare, people and other items. Clear evidence is needed. Using a tile type tag would be the best protection one could use to recover lost/stolen items.     

Cameras in casinos can see players cards.

Security surveillance in a casino is not like your average 7/11 coverage 

It’s pretty sophisticated stuff.

 

Now the old slight of hand, pick pocket expert illusionist trickery aside

 

A casino knows when you walk in and when you walk out

Hey did you know on RC ships they use facial recognition , well I never 

Who needs cameras

 

We have already established that a trail from owner to an individual cashing can be established 

Point A to B, there is no letter in between

 

and to add the ticket (voucher) had a readable barcode on it and other security features that can be traced 

 

so your point is

Edited August 16, 2022 by PompeySailor

[mtm103]

3 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Just throwing it out there...are you sure the voucher was in that bag?

A million percent sure. I always put it in the same part of my bag when I leave the casino. My husband was next to me. Someone else cashed it in..

[ZoeyVictoria]

I doubt that the person who took the voucher is the same person who turned in the purse.  My guess is the voucher was removed and the purse abandoned, then found and turned in by another individual.

[mtm103]

1 hour ago, rolloman said:

The OP still has not mentioned the amount of the voucher...which leads me to be it is a minor amount and not worth the investigative trouble.  As an aside, I am also a little confused as to how a hairbrush is of more value than the credit card and cell phone... Sorry OP but the presentation of your story is a little suspect...especially when it involves an accusation of theft. 

? I never said my phone was in the bag? It was a phone charger thing.. I can even attach the photo of bag and content! Why does everyone need to automatically assume I am lying?!! The voucher was less than 500 but more than 200. Casino manager is from U.K.  he said it is my word against the person that cashed it in..I have now got security involved and have filled in a form. 

[PompeySailor]

Just now, mtm103 said:

? I never said my phone was in the bag? It was a phone charger thing.. I can even attach the photo of bag and content! Why does everyone need to automatically assume I am lying?!! The voucher was less than 500 but more than 200. Casino manager is from U.K.  he said it is my word against the person that cashed it in..I have now got security involved and have filled in a form. 

Most of us are helping you 😎

[mtm103]

1 hour ago, Another_Critic said:

They said telephone charger, not cell phone.

Thank you yes, my phone is in my hand and never went into my bag (as it doesn’t fit). 

[PompeySailor]

2 minutes ago, mtm103 said:

? I never said my phone was in the bag? It was a phone charger thing.. I can even attach the photo of bag and content! Why does everyone need to automatically assume I am lying?!! The voucher was less than 500 but more than 200. Casino manager is from U.K.  he said it is my word against the person that cashed it in..I have now got security involved and have filled in a form. 

Ask them for camera footage of the person who cashed the ticket

When it is cashed in system there will

be a time and date record which can be linked with cage cameras 

[cruisingguy007]

9 minutes ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

I doubt that the person who took the voucher is the same person who turned in the purse.  My guess is the voucher was removed and the purse abandoned, then found and turned in by another individual.

 

Exactly, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. 

[smokeybandit]

I'm surprised vouchers aren't linked to a stateroom.  

You'd think it'd be easy to check if the person who cashed it in even played in the casino.

[mtm103]

10 minutes ago, PompeySailor said:

Most of us are helping you 😎

Sorry yes of course it is great help thank you! It is just directed at the person who said I was lying!

[mtm103]

Update

sorry I am actually typing this in the casino (bag is in cabin now!). 
I spoke to Diamond concierge who contacted security. 
2 security came to speak to me. I explained everything as above, and I also took them to the bar to show them where I had been sitting. I then had to fill a longer report. They were going to view cctv as well as guest services cctv. 
there were 2 cameras on me when I cashed the voucher out. 
 

[PompeySailor]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

I'm surprised vouchers aren't linked to a stateroom.  

You'd think it'd be easy to check if the person who cashed it in even played in the casino.

They are linked to a person, which in turn is linked to a stateroom

if player is using their sea pass in machine then they cash out a voucher 

 

This is how they track an individuals win loss 

And then rate and accumulate points  to give out free cruises 
 

as for who cashed it in, that’s relying on cameras at the cage and casino security 

 

[PompeySailor]

1 minute ago, mtm103 said:

Update

sorry I am actually typing this in the casino (bag is in cabin now!). 
I spoke to Diamond concierge who contacted security. 
2 security came to speak to me. I explained everything as above, and I also took them to the bar to show them where I had been sitting. I then had to fill a longer report. They were going to view cctv as well as guest services cctv. 
there were 2 cameras on me when I cashed the voucher out. 
 

So they will know ticket number

if camera can see ticket, which it should be able to do

Were you using your sea pass card in machine before you cashed out?

 

2 ways to prove the ticket number 

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, PompeySailor said:

They are linked to a person, which in turn is linked to a stateroom

if player is using their sea pass in machine then they cash out a voucher 

 

This is how they track an individuals win loss 

And then rate and accumulate points  to give out free cruises 
 

as for who cashed it in, that’s relying on cameras at the cage and casino security 

 

Seems a huge security gap to not record who is actually cashing in the voucher. 

[mtm103]

5 minutes ago, PompeySailor said:

So they will know ticket number

if camera can see ticket, which it should be able to do

Were you using your sea pass card in machine before you cashed out?

 

2 ways to prove the ticket number 

Yes using my sea pass to keep track of points. Thank you

[PompeySailor]

So for all those that doubted OP

 

Now  they have said it is > $200

 

Should they pursue the loss (Theft) ?

 

Just wondering what the opinions are on “if it’s a small voucher” just let tit go people are thinking

 

What do the people think who were questioning the OP’s contents of their handbag, now voucher is > $200

 

so now, what if it was a $1199 ticket 

(Gamblers will understand)

Would you just let it go?

 

interested in the perspectives and the inputs of those jumping on OP basically bashing them for not knowing every item that was in their handbag

[PompeySailor]

6 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Seems a huge security gap to not record who is actually cashing in the voucher. 

They will be on camera 

ID when cashing a ticket is only required if amount t is over $1200

Edited August 16, 2022 by PompeySailor

[flamingos]

1 hour ago, cruisingguy007 said:

Is keeping the found items a crappy thing to do? Sure? Illegal? No.

I disagree.  Why would it be OK to take something that is not yours?

[PompeySailor]

5 minutes ago, mtm103 said:

Yes using my sea pass to keep track of points. Thank you

Excellent 

Now they just need to reference your ticket from your play history 

You and they know when cashed out of machine

You and they know the amount and they can see when it was Scanned at cage

Progress looking good.

Hopefully a positive outcome 

 

Follow though and don’t let them try and sweep under the carpet 👍🏻

[pcur]

7 hours ago, mtm103 said:

Firstly, I know it was my fault. I just wondered people's opinion on this, and whether I can do something (or not, as they keep telling me)

I am currently on a RC ship. Last night I was in the casino, cashed out, and put the voucher in my bag. I then visited a bar for a drink + sorrento pizza.. I know I was very stupid, and it is 100% my fault, but I left my bag in the bar. It only had a hairbrush and some lippie.. and the casino voucher..

I realised this morning, called guest services, who said the bag was handed in.. I went to pick up the bag, and the casino voucher was gone. I spoke to the casino manager, who said they will check if the voucher has been used, but if it has, it is lost and they will not do anything about it, even if they know someone has cashed it in. The argument being is that the casino voucher is the same as cash, so it is as if i left cash on the floor. Does this sound right? I know if I lost cash it would be my fault, but it seems unfair as the casino voucher is "linked" to me. I also know it is my own fault regardless for forgetting my handbag. 

Does it sound right to me?  ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!  Wrong on so many levels of people being selfish, hurtful, greedy, and dishonest.  Put's me in "mama-bear-protective-mode".

 

Sigh.  However, there's not much RCCL can do about it.  BUT, if it was me I'd ask about security footage the last place you had the bag.  There might be a clear shot of the person that stole your money, which is exactly what happened.  I would request Security try to find footage of you through the ship at that time and see if anyone was following you.  If they can ID the thief, they have the evidence to do something, which I hope includes giving you your winnings back.

 

No lecture from me:  I was using a pay phone while my 3 year old sat on a bench eating an ice cream cone.  He needed help, and I stepped away for a few seconds.  The woman at the phone next to me (and the door) grabbed my wallet from the little phone shelf and took off.  So, I know EXACTLY how you feel.

[Bronx12]

It is possible the person who took the voucher, didn't cash it in right away but put it in a slot machine and played the money, and then maybe cashed it in. Either way, not cool 😞  Sorry you are having to deal with this on your vacation, hopefully you can still have a good time.

[Another_Critic]

7 minutes ago, PompeySailor said:

Progress looking good.

Hopefully a positive outcome 

Thief better start packing their bags.