Viking just ordered 4 more ocean ships

[formernuke]

Scheduled for delivery 2026-28. At least some will be hydrogen fuel cell-powered.

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/shipbuilding-refurb-equipment/viking-firms-orders-four-more-cruise-ships-fincantieri

[The Other Tom]

I'm not sure I would want to cruise on a ship with hydrogen tanks on board. 🤔

[CurlerRob]

50 minutes ago, The Other Tom said:

I'm not sure I would want to cruise on a ship with hydrogen tanks on board. 🤔

Not to worry, none will be named "Hindenburg". 😈

 

Kidding aside, you may recall this thread, to which we both posted: 🍺🥌

 

[Clay Clayton]

I was gonna start a thread with this article I just saw.  I guess my concerns about Tors’ pocketbook shouldn’t have been😂

 

[zalusky]

Will they still be twins or will there be something new in layout?

[Clay Clayton]

8 hours ago, zalusky said:

Will they still be twins or will there be something new in layout?

We will have to see but if I recall correctly from the earlier discussion on the thread about the hydrogen powered aspect, they would be slightly larger to allow for the extra space needed for the hydrogen. Seems like they would still be under 1000 passengers but more than the current 930. 

[zalusky]

6 hours ago, Clay Clayton said:

We will have to see but if I recall correctly from the earlier discussion on the thread about the hydrogen powered aspect, they would be slightly larger to allow for the extra space needed for the hydrogen. Seems like they would still be under 1000 passengers but more than the current 930. 

I wonder if they will target them for certain itineraries based on what ever feature changes they might have.

[GonzoWCS]

Good news

 

Cheers

[CurlerRob]

1 hour ago, zalusky said:

I wonder if they will target them for certain itineraries based on what ever feature changes they might have.

 

Quite possibly for Norway and Svalbard in the future, as both areas seem to be on an increasingly restrictive path regarding cruise ships - both size and fuel. 🍺🥌

[formernuke]

May also have to limit their itineraries based on available places to fuel with hydrogen. 
 

[Heidi13]

9 hours ago, formernuke said:

May also have to limit their itineraries based on available places to fuel with hydrogen. 
 

 

I expect the DG's will be dual fuel engines, which can use hydrogen or diesel. When they can't bunker with hydrogen they will probably revert to diesel.

[longterm]

6 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

I expect the DG's will be dual fuel engines, which can use hydrogen or diesel. When they can't bunker with hydrogen they will probably revert to diesel.

Wouldn't the engines be drastically different? I know nothing about hydrogen engines, but I always assumed they were totally difference, since they don't rely on the same sort of combustion mechanisms that gasoline/diesel do.

But of course, I ask this knowing absolutely nothing about either hydrogen engines or giant ship engines, and I can tell from your posts that you DO know! 🙂

[Heidi13]

12 minutes ago, longterm said:

Wouldn't the engines be drastically different? I know nothing about hydrogen engines, but I always assumed they were totally difference, since they don't rely on the same sort of combustion mechanisms that gasoline/diesel do.

But of course, I ask this knowing absolutely nothing about either hydrogen engines or giant ship engines, and I can tell from your posts that you DO know! 🙂

 

Not being a Marine Engineer, I only have a basic understanding of the latest technology in marine engines. I recalled reading an article on the development of dual fuel hydrogen engines, which was rather timely with the Viking announcement.

 

The LNG ships still require diesel, as the engines are started on diesel and even when operational, they still inject some diesel with the LNG.  I just found it interesting that they were developing similar dual fuel engines for hydrogen.

 

Our resident Chief Engineer is the expert in this field, so hopefully he can provide some info.

 

@chengkp75

[longterm]

1 minute ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Not being a Marine Engineer, I only have a basic understanding of the latest technology in marine engines. I recalled reading an article on the development of dual fuel hydrogen engines, which was rather timely with the Viking announcement.

 

The LNG ships still require diesel, as the engines are started on diesel and even when operational, they still inject some diesel with the LNG.  I just found it interesting that they were developing similar dual fuel engines for hydrogen.

 

Our resident Chief Engineer is the expert in this field, so hopefully he can provide some info.

 

@chengkp75

Interesting; I didn't know there were ships running on LNG. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the diesel used on large ships a less-refined type of diesel?

I would have to think that at this point, there are only a limited number of ports that can refuel hyrogen-powered ships, right? If so, where would you think these ships are going to be situated?
 

[Heidi13]

45 minutes ago, longterm said:

Interesting; I didn't know there were ships running on LNG. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the diesel used on large ships a less-refined type of diesel?

I would have to think that at this point, there are only a limited number of ports that can refuel hyrogen-powered ships, right? If so, where would you think these ships are going to be situated?
 

 

An increasing number of cruise ships are dual fuel LNG and diesel. Some that I recall are Iona (P&O), Carnival Mardi Gras, Disney Wish, NCL Prima and I recall an MSC ship, but can't recall the name. My last command also went for conversion a couple of years after I retired. It has now operated for about 5-yrs without issue.

 

Deep sea ships use a variety of fuels. Most of them use heavy fuels, which require heating, so even those ships switch over to marine diesel for manoeuvring. On the coast, we only used marine diesel, which is somewhat similar to land based diesel.

 

Unfortunately, I have no experience with hydrogen, so don't know which ports have it available and I don't know the bunkering process. I can only assume it would be somewhat similar to LNG.

[The Other Tom]

10 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

I expect the DG's will be dual fuel engines, which can use hydrogen or diesel. When they can't bunker with hydrogen they will probably revert to diesel.

See post #3, which indicates they will be powered by fuel cells.  Fuel cells aren't engines and can't use diesel.

Fuel cells generate electricity, which is typically stored in batteries, which power electric motors.  I'm assuming the motors on Viking ships are electric, normally powered by diesel generators.  If this is true, then using hydrogen is just another way to generate electricity.  

Edited September 12, 2022 by The Other Tom

[longterm]

12 hours ago, The Other Tom said:

See post #3, which indicates they will be powered by fuel cells.  Fuel cells aren't engines and can't use diesel.

Fuel cells generate electricity, which is typically stored in batteries, which power electric motors.  I'm assuming the motors on Viking ships are electric, normally powered by diesel generators.  If this is true, then using hydrogen is just another way to generate electricity.  

Ah, makes sense. Just like railroad engines, which are "electro-motive," and are actually electric engines on each wheel, powered by huge diesel generators. Hadn't thought about it being the same on a ship, but it makes total sense.

[Heidi13]

18 hours ago, The Other Tom said:

See post #3, which indicates they will be powered by fuel cells.  Fuel cells aren't engines and can't use diesel.

Fuel cells generate electricity, which is typically stored in batteries, which power electric motors.  I'm assuming the motors on Viking ships are electric, normally powered by diesel generators.  If this is true, then using hydrogen is just another way to generate electricity.  

 

Interesting that they are going with fuel cells, rather than dual fuel engines. Since the Ballard fuel cells were developed at one of our local Universities, we have received lots of information about them locally. However, the information we receive is that they (Ballard) have focussed on autos and buses.

 

I did read that DNV has approved a marine fuel cell and if memory is correct, it was a Norwegian coastal ferry. If the first hydrogen fuel cell ships are due in 2026/27, that is a significant increase in scale from a coastal ferry to a cruise ship.

 

Affirmative, most modern cruise ships use the prime movers to drive generators, which provide power for propulsion and the hotel load. The Viking ships currently have 2 larger and 2 smaller prime movers that start based on the load required.

 

If they go with fuel cells, they would replace the existing prime movers and depending on the output, and ability to respond to load changes, they may require additional batteries. It is going to be very interesting to watch the progress and initial designs. As with LNG, if the tanks are not on the upper decks, they must have large vents to prevent tank over-pressurisation in the event of heating.

[Jim Avery]

And be sure to stay upwind of the vents....🤢