Roulette question!

[the penguins]

10 hours ago, TomBeckCruise said:

I just did on the 8-31 Summit cruise.  I used OBC to buy chips(if you consider those promotional) then bet either red/black, even/0dd or 1-18/19-36.  All required a $5 minimum bet.

 

Ha, the first time I've ever won in a casino.  I started with about $1200, and walked out with $1400.

Depends on the OBC - non refundable should be promotional, refundable ordinary chips. 

We play roulette with our non refundable with 2 aims:

1) to have fun 

2) to convert it to real money with a minimum risk.

We play corners covering 4 numbers per chip💲5 per spin thereby covering roughly half the board.

Play 💲40 to 💲50 a night (depending on the OBC). Keep winnings separately, walk away as soon as the promotional chips are spent and never chase loses.

Have walked away with a profit on every cruise except 1.

[NorthStarStateCruiser]

11 hours ago, Inveterate Cruiser said:

 

Yeah I’m already getting a free Celebrity cruise through URComped. Just trying to figure out the most effective way to continue getting comps / cruises through URComped and also the cruise lines. 

 

 

 

That's a dangerous game.

At the very best, you'd receive 8 tier points per $1 of theoretical loss. With double zero roulette, the house edge is about 5%. So, let's say you get 8 tier points every $20 you wager. To get to sapphire, for example, you'd need to wager $250,000 and guaranteed to loose some of that with your red & black strategy. Likely around $12,500. Doesn't sound like a good investment or entertaining at all.

[manmachine]

On 9/17/2022 at 9:26 AM, bayonnejoe said:

Celebrity does have single zero roulette on some ships. I am constantly amazed when the single zero table and double zero tables are both open how many more people are sitting at the double zero table. Single zero is one of the best bets in the casino as opposed to double zero which is the worst.

-2.7% for the house on single zero.  Hugely better than double zero.

[crusinthrough]

20 hours ago, Inveterate Cruiser said:

 

I would be VERY happy to play single zero roulette at higher denom especially if i can cover my bets……

 

So here’s my rationale - I’m trying to churn casino points / casino spend while minimizing downside volatility to my bankroll. I’m not looking to win money from the casino - I’m looking to make it back from the comps (cruises/drinks) I get from the play…….

To gain casino points on roulette you have to play long and place lots of chips each spin. If the minimum bet is $5 and you play $50 a spin, you have played 10x more and appear to be a big spender.  If the minimum bet is $25 and you play $50 you only played 2x more  and don't appear to be spending as much.  Either way $50 was spent.  

[kwokpot]

2 minutes ago, crusinthrough said:

To gain casino points on roulette you have to play long and place lots of chips each spin. If the minimum bet is $5 and you play $50 a spin, you have played 10x more and appear to be a big spender.  If the minimum bet is $25 and you play $50 you only played 2x more  and don't appear to be spending as much.  Either way $50 was spent.  

That's not how it works. In terms of rating, the casino doesn't care what kind of bet you make, only what is the total amount and how long you're playing. That is all.

[crusinthrough]

4 minutes ago, kwokpot said:

That's not how it works. In terms of rating, the casino doesn't care what kind of bet you make, only what is the total amount and how long you're playing. That is all.

I only used the 10x and 2x as a reference in the amount spent.  Yes, the biggest and most important factors are how long and how much you bet.  However, you appear to be a big a bigger spender when you are betting a lot over the minimum.  It may not get points but there may be other recognition from the casino.  Nevertheless, it's difficult to gain signifiant casino point on table games, roulette in particular.

[kwokpot]

1 minute ago, crusinthrough said:

Nevertheless, it's difficult to gain signifiant casino point on table games, roulette in particular.

100% correct.

[Inveterate Cruiser]

4 hours ago, crusinthrough said:

I only used the 10x and 2x as a reference in the amount spent.  Yes, the biggest and most important factors are how long and how much you bet.  However, you appear to be a big a bigger spender when you are betting a lot over the minimum.  It may not get points but there may be other recognition from the casino.  Nevertheless, it's difficult to gain signifiant casino point on table games, roulette in particular.

 

Granted that earning points via table games like craps/BJ/roulette is slower than through slots (because those 3 table games have a much lower house edge than slots), but i should assume that roulette should accrue points quicker than craps or BJ because of its higher house edge? I used URComped’s comp calculator and their calculated ADT for roulette at $50 bets over 4 hours is much higher than either BJ or craps ($424 vs $240 for craps and $180 for BJ). Basically it equates to 1 hour of roulette = 2 hrs of craps = 2.5 hours of BJ (approximately). That sounds pretty efficient especially if one covers to decrease the bankroll volatility…….

[Inveterate Cruiser]

6 hours ago, NorthStarStateCruiser said:

That's a dangerous game.

At the very best, you'd receive 8 tier points per $1 of theoretical loss. With double zero roulette, the house edge is about 5%. So, let's say you get 8 tier points every $20 you wager. To get to sapphire, for example, you'd need to wager $250,000 and guaranteed to loose some of that with your red & black strategy. Likely around $12,500. Doesn't sound like a good investment or entertaining at all.

 

12500 loss from cycling through $250k is a 5% loss. Sounds like a reasonable loss to me to hit Sapphire which was more than what I was hoping to achieve (amethyst)……… 

 

But I get the point now that if I am trying to churn points specifically for Celebrity’s BCC program, I should play VP (multi-line) which is a 5% HE, same as roulette, but earns at 4x the rate of table games…….

 

  

[crusinthrough]

4 hours ago, Inveterate Cruiser said:

 

Granted that earning points via table games like craps/BJ/roulette is slower than through slots (because those 3 table games have a much lower house edge than slots), but i should assume that roulette should accrue points quicker than craps or BJ because of its higher house edge? I used URComped’s comp calculator and their calculated ADT for roulette at $50 bets over 4 hours is much higher than either BJ or craps ($424 vs $240 for craps and $180 for BJ). Basically it equates to 1 hour of roulette = 2 hrs of craps = 2.5 hours of BJ (approximately). That sounds pretty efficient especially if one covers to decrease the bankroll volatility…….

If you did the math, I'll defer to you.   I've never played roulette for 4 hours straight and definitely not $50 per spin.  I have played constantly throughout the week on a 7 night cruise and have never accumulated any points to warrant a free or discounted room or a move up to the next category.  At this point, I play for fun until I hit my set win/lost ratio.  

 

Carnival on the other hand is always offering something with the same amount of play and money spent.

 

[Georgia_Peaches]

I really wish I understood all the comments. I guess I need to study roulette. I’m generally a slot girl but looking to expand before my next cruise.  

[Inveterate Cruiser]

2 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

I really wish I understood all the comments. I guess I need to study roulette. I’m generally a slot girl but looking to expand before my next cruise.  

 

I will admit that I never really sat down to look at roulette properly until a couple of weeks ago. It really is a very simple and elegant game compared to craps or BJ. Virtually every single bet (bar 1) has the same house edge and this edge (5.3%), while higher than BJ or the best craps bets, is still not prohibitive. Plus you don’t have to play perfect BJ basic strategy or learn craps (which is intimidating to many) to get this house edge. Shallow learning curve and not much concentration required IMO - like slots. 

 

Baccarat is another good game if you can find it. Very low house edge and just bet BANKER all the time. Every time.  

[AndyCapn]

8 hours ago, Inveterate Cruiser said:

 

12500 loss from cycling through $250k is a 5% loss. Sounds like a reasonable loss to me to hit Sapphire which was more than what I was hoping to achieve (amethyst)……… 

But... why? What do you get at Sapphire that's worth $12,500? A "free" cruise that you could buy for half the price?

 

For a gambler, it's a perk that keeps them coming back because maybe they'll hit that big score and come out ahead.

 

But your plan sees literally no chance of winning. Hundreds of spins where the best you can do is break even.

[Fly and Sail]

On 9/18/2022 at 12:23 AM, Inveterate Cruiser said:

 

I just can’t bring myself to play slots unless it is VP…….I can’t stand the possibility of losing 15-20% of my bankroll……

 

You have that possibility with any game in the casino, especially if you play all week. It's highly probable too. If you play long enough, even with that Black/Red bet you'll eventually lose all of your bankroll as 0/00 comes up quite frequently. Your rating on table games during cruises is horrible in terms of points earnings and slots are your best bet.

[kwokpot]

2 hours ago, Fly and Sail said:

 

You have that possibility with any game in the casino, especially if you play all week. It's highly probable too. If you play long enough, even with that Black/Red bet you'll eventually lose all of your bankroll as 0/00 comes up quite frequently. Your rating on table games during cruises is horrible in terms of points earnings and slots are your best bet.

All the experienced gamblers are trying to explain that to the OP but they think they know better. 

[Fly and Sail]

8 hours ago, AndyCapn said:

But... why? What do you get at Sapphire that's worth $12,500? A "free" cruise that you could buy for half the price?

 

For a gambler, it's a perk that keeps them coming back because maybe they'll hit that big score and come out ahead.

 

But your plan sees literally no chance of winning. Hundreds of spins where the best you can do is break even.

 

Well, for someone who really does A LOT of cruises, especially someone who pretty much lives on the ship, Sapphire is very attractive. You have a guaranteed $500 Freeplay per cruise and free wifi as well as the drink package. Sapphire also used to get access to the Retreat, same as Zenith (who knows if that ever comes back). If you coordinate these perks right then you can really benefit a lot.

 

Imagine someone like Super Mario who pretty much has 50 cruises per year. 50x $500 is already $25k Freeplay which you could (with the right strategy) turn into $20k cash if you consider a 20% breakage.

 

You get quite a few free cruises not only the ones directly marketed to you by the casino. Just stop at the Future Cruises desk and ask them about the casino rate.

[CalTexCruiser]

If pit bosses do not care how you bet just the total amount, wouldn't betting $ 50 on both Pass line and Don't Pass line on each throw of the craps table provide better odds for the player than doing the same on black/read in roulette?

 

The only time the player would lose is if a 12 is thrown on a come out roll.

[NorthStarStateCruiser]

28 minutes ago, CalTexCruiser said:

If pit bosses do not care how you bet just the total amount, wouldn't betting $ 50 on both Pass line and Don't Pass line on each throw of the craps table provide better odds for the player than doing the same on black/read in roulette?

 

The only time the player would lose is if a 12 is thrown on a come out roll.

Yes, lower house edge on that "strategy" (about $1.40 expected loss per $100 on the table), but the tier points accumulated vary by the table game played. Lower house edge = less points per dollar wagered.

[canderson]

3 minutes ago, NorthStarStateCruiser said:

Yes, lower house edge on that "strategy" (about $1.40 expected loss per $100 on the table), but the tier points accumulated vary by the table game played. Lower house edge = less points per dollar wagered.

Not $2.78 per 100?

[kwokpot]

The bottom line is if the OP wants to gamble solely to attain a certain players club status and be assured higher level comped cruise offers it's NOT going to happen playing solely table games. This is true for both land-based and cruiseship based casino programs. Whatsmore the OP is approaching this whole thing from the wrong perspective. The issue with table games is that it's solely at the discretion of the pit boss. What my husband does is to make friends with all the casino staff, pit boss, dealers, cage employees. TIP generously. Have FUN and GENERATE FUN at the table games you're playing. Track and monitor the points you're earning with the pit boss. Have open lines of communication with the Pit Boss, this way, if you felt that the PB underestimated your average bet, you can NICELY say , oh I think it was a bit more than that. When we're on a cruiseship when my husband walks through the casino everyone says hi, hello to him, servers, dealers, slot attendants, cage staff. Other gamblers in the casino always comment that my husband ALWAYS seems to have so much fun in the casino, and it's enjoyable to be around where he is because he makes it a fun atmosphere to play., which is the bottom line. 

[NorthStarStateCruiser]

13 minutes ago, canderson said:

Not $2.78 per 100?

Not based on my calculation.  A 12 on the come-out roll would be a "push" for the don't pass bet and a loss on the pass line bet, rather than a loss on both.  So, with 1/2 your total bet on a 12 and even on every other come-out roll, that comes out to 35.5/36 or .986 or 1.4% house edge.  Pretty sure I got that right 😏

[CalTexCruiser]

15 minutes ago, NorthStarStateCruiser said:

Not based on my calculation.  A 12 on the come-out roll would be a "push" for the don't pass bet and a loss on the pass line bet, rather than a loss on both.  So, with 1/2 your total bet on a 12 and even on every other come-out roll, that comes out to 35.5/36 or .986 or 1.4% house edge.  Pretty sure I got that right 😏

 

Yes I think you are right.  It is 1/36 of $ 50, or 1/72 of $ 100 (50 each on pass line and don't pass line).

[canderson]

36 minutes ago, NorthStarStateCruiser said:

Not based on my calculation.  A 12 on the come-out roll would be a "push" for the don't pass bet and a loss on the pass line bet, rather than a loss on both.  So, with 1/2 your total bet on a 12 and even on every other come-out roll, that comes out to 35.5/36 or .986 or 1.4% house edge.  Pretty sure I got that right 😏

Right.  Doubled it by mistake taking into account only one pass/don't pass line.

 

[Inveterate Cruiser]

34 minutes ago, kwokpot said:

The bottom line is if the OP wants to gamble solely to attain a certain players club status and be assured higher level comped cruise offers it's NOT going to happen playing solely table games. This is true for both land-based and cruiseship based casino programs. Whatsmore the OP is approaching this whole thing from the wrong perspective. The issue with table games is that it's solely at the discretion of the pit boss. What my husband does is to make friends with all the casino staff, pit boss, dealers, cage employees. TIP generously. Have FUN and GENERATE FUN at the table games you're playing. Track and monitor the points you're earning with the pit boss. Have open lines of communication with the Pit Boss, this way, if you felt that the PB underestimated your average bet, you can NICELY say , oh I think it was a bit more than that. When we're on a cruiseship when my husband walks through the casino everyone says hi, hello to him, servers, dealers, slot attendants, cage staff. Other gamblers in the casino always comment that my husband ALWAYS seems to have so much fun in the casino, and it's enjoyable to be around where he is because he makes it a fun atmosphere to play., which is the bottom line. 

 

I get your point but I cannot stomach the house edge for slots. And I can’t do what your husband does - I’m more introverted. So for Celebrity, my strategy will probably to play VP.  

[Inveterate Cruiser]

10 hours ago, AndyCapn said:

But... why? What do you get at Sapphire that's worth $12,500? A "free" cruise that you could buy for half the price?

 

For a gambler, it's a perk that keeps them coming back because maybe they'll hit that big score and come out ahead.

 

But your plan sees literally no chance of winning. Hundreds of spins where the best you can do is break even.

 

I think @Fly and Saildid a good job explaining but I want to add that if you are sailing through URComped you will get comps / cruises not just on the cruise line directly but also through URComped. So there is a multiplier effect.

 

Another point: For lines like Princess, the offer you get for a free cruise is usually for 3 cruises, not just 1.

 

Finally - all this is contingent on having the ability to actually use these offers, so this is not for everyone.