Be Careful What You Buy on Board

[reallyitsmema]

3 hours ago, PWP-001 said:

Someone noted that they are outlined in The Compass... which also isn't published anymore. 

 

The compass is absolutely published.  It is available on your TV in your stateroom, it is available in the app, it is available in PDF form by scanning a QR code found on your TV in your stateroom or on a printed card on the vanity, and it is available in printed form from your cabin steward or from guest services.

[foxgoodrich]

From the CBP:

Customs and Border Protection (CBP) does not collect state sales tax on goods imported into the U.S.  However, CBP will make entries and CBP declarations available to state tax representatives if requested. Some states occasionally review these documents and send letters to importers and travelers notifying them that they owe state taxes.

 

The normal federal Customs process happens when travelers return to the US from foreign countries.  Customs does not report these customs declarations to states, nor do they collect tax on behalf of states.  States can choose to request access to the information if they want to review declarations.  In some cases it would be a big waste of time and manpower - for example, there are 6 states that have no state sales tax at all.  

 

My state does not routinely review the Customs declarations of international travelers.  Obviously, from what Nelblu told us, NJ does!

Edited October 22, 2022 by foxgoodrich

[BND]

41 minutes ago, foxgoodrich said:

From the CBP:

Customs and Border Protection (CBP) does not collect state sales tax on goods imported into the U.S.  However, CBP will make entries and CBP declarations available to state tax representatives if requested. Some states occasionally review these documents and send letters to importers and travelers notifying them that they owe state taxes.

 

The normal federal Customs process happens when travelers return to the US from foreign countries.  Customs does not report these customs declarations to states, nor do they collect tax on behalf of states.  States can choose to request access to the information if they want to review declarations.  In some cases it would be a big waste of time and manpower - for example, there are 6 states that have no state sales tax at all.  

 

My state does not routinely review the Customs declarations of international travelers.  Obviously, from what Nelblu told us, NJ does!

What CBP collects is duty, basically import type taxes which is what they collected.  When you go over the duty limit, you have to pay a tax/fee.  It's not sales tax.

[nelblu]

40 minutes ago, foxgoodrich said:

From the CBP:

Customs and Border Protection (CBP) does not collect state sales tax on goods imported into the U.S.  However, CBP will make entries and CBP declarations available to state tax representatives if requested. Some states occasionally review these documents and send letters to importers and travelers notifying them that they owe state taxes.

 

The normal federal Customs process happens when travelers return to the US from foreign countries.  Customs does not report these customs declarations to states, nor do they collect tax on behalf of states.  States can choose to request access to the information if they want to review declarations.  In some cases it would be a big waste of time and manpower - for example, there are 6 states that have no state sales tax at all.  

 

My state does not routinely review the Customs declarations of international travelers.  Obviously, from what Nelblu told us, NJ does!

I never said that.  I mentioned many times that it's on an honor system.  My inquiry was to determine if US Customs/Treasury coordinates large purchases on ships with the states taxing authorities.

 

I thank you for the insightful explanations in the 1st 2 paragraphs.

[nelblu]

50 minutes ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

The compass is absolutely published.  It is available on your TV in your stateroom, it is available in the app, it is available in PDF form by scanning a QR code found on your TV in your stateroom or on a printed card on the vanity, and it is available in printed form from your cabin steward or from guest services.

Here's a novel idea how about placing a sign at the counter(s) so that the customer may be better informed.  When local restaurants and other establishments began charging a service fee for using credit cards, there were signs posted upon entering, at the cashier counter and in some cases in menus.  

 

On one of the compasses from our recent Oasis sail states the following "Enjoy tax- and duty-free savings on board".  There is no disclaimer to this statement that it is subject to the US $800 Customs rule.  Less egregious statements from corporations have triggered lawsuits in the US.

[nolimits]

Before facial rec  I was flagged not to leave. Ship. I had bought a watch they took me and my family and our bags into customs office past lines and lines of people LOL. I had my declaration form filled out. Correctly pd 76$.I looked at it like express pass LOL 

But the way the ship handles it is embarrassing and sneaky but legal 

They could just tell you not have they alarm go off when you swipe your sea pass to get off. After purchase the could ask nationality and hand out form then and there But that would hurt all those duty free signs LOL

 

[nelblu]

10 hours ago, Ret MP said:

From a Law Enforcement perspective, and I don't claim to know all the particular facts in this event, when you want to talk to someone that there is suspicion (we'll call him/her a "subject") of possible wrong doing, and that subject MAY be involved in a crime, large or small, you give that subject as little information as possible until you get the subject into a controlled location/environment.  Why?  Because you never know how the subject is going to react and it's better to get him/her into an area where there is a few people as possible that aren't Law Enforcement or support personnel, it's for safety sake for EVERYONE.  AND, unless the subject is a juvenile, it's nobody's business what is going on, wife, dad, mom, sister, favorite pillow, nobody's.  Depending upon the jurisdiction, even with a juvenile, you move quickly to the "controlled area, what ever that may be at a particular location/situation" without conversation other than maybe passing the time of day type conversation.  AND it sounded like the "Officer/Agent" treated everyone with respect.  No harm, no foul.  

 

Lesson learned:  Duty Free doesn't mean limit free.  There are always limits!  

How about if you are a 1/4 of a mile from a controlled location.  Just exaggerating, but it is a distance from the disembarking point to the luggage pen and on to Customs.  Plus, you got family following and concerned as to what is going on.

[nolimits]

You didn’t do anything wrong till you pass thru customs and not declare purchase

So not a suspect a customer of the ship and its stores 

[Ret MP]

11 minutes ago, nelblu said:

How about if you are a 1/4 of a mile from a controlled location.  Just exaggerating, but it is a distance from the disembarking point to the luggage pen and on to Customs.  Plus, you got family following and concerned as to what is going on.

Once Law Enforcement gets involved in an official capacity, it's all about safety for EVERYONE, the tactical advantage, the phycological advantage, what ever advantage benefits the situation and officer(s)/agent(s).  If the family chooses to follow (yes, I know that there, in this type situation, isn't much option) along, that's their decision.  The officer/agent will be as accommodating to the family as possible.  But, worrying about convenience to the subject/family/friends is not one of the priorities.  In fact, in the security business, inconvenience is generally the desired effect (although it won't be admitted, not publicly).  It's like investigators/detectives will always try to conduct interviews/interrogations back in their office, it's their turf/phycological advantage/physical advantage/safety advantage and they don't care about the convenience to anyone else.

 

There is almost always a reason why things are done the way they are done.  It's almost always never to make things comfortable or easy or convenient for subjects and for the most part, family/friends don't enter into their equations.  

[BND]

Anyone who has dealt with this thought to write to Michael Bayley?  It's easy enough for them to have a statement in the Compass about declaration and how to go about it prior to debarking.   If they get enough complaints...

 

One trip, back when we were still doing the forms, we had bought over our limit (by a couple hundred dollars at most I think and we were honest) in port, not onboard,  and when we turned the form into CBP, they pulled us into an office and wanted us to pay in cash something like $12.75.  They had no way to give change so we ended up giving them $15 or something.  They didn't like that, but they couldn't have been surprised.  We do carry cash, but not coins.  We usually stay below the allowance and never buy enough onboard to trigger anything.   We also avoid buying much in the duty free shops in port.

[nolimits]

You don’t know or see customs agents till you get to office 

You are stopped leaving on top of gangway (no explanation) Then escorted off ship ( like perp walk LOL)by concierge or other ship employee to office with agents still no explanation that’s the embarrassing and scary part. All could be avoided with different systems 

[Ret MP]

4 minutes ago, BND said:

Anyone who has dealt with this thought to write to Michael Bayley?  It's easy enough for them to have a statement in the Compass about declaration and how to go about it prior to debarking.   If they get enough complaints...

 

One trip, back when we were still doing the forms, we had bought over our limit (by a couple hundred dollars at most I think and we were honest) in port, not onboard,  and when we turned the form into CBP, they pulled us into an office and wanted us to pay in cash something like $12.75.  They had no way to give change so we ended up giving them $15 or something.  They didn't like that, but they couldn't have been surprised.  We do carry cash, but not coins.  We usually stay below the allowance and never buy enough onboard to trigger anything.   We also avoid buying much in the duty free shops in port.

Yep, we never buy anything of much value in foreign countries that we plan to bring back to the U.S.  The most expensive items we bring back is a bottle of Vodka or Rum each.  Otherwise, we buy little $3.00 - $5.00 key chains or alike.  

[nelblu]

14 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Once Law Enforcement gets involved in an official capacity, it's all about safety for EVERYONE, the tactical advantage, the phycological advantage, what ever advantage benefits the situation and officer(s)/agent(s).  If the family chooses to follow (yes, I know that there, in this type situation, isn't much option) along, that's their decision.  The officer/agent will be as accommodating to the family as possible.  But, worrying about convenience to the subject/family/friends is not one of the priorities.  In fact, in the security business, inconvenience is generally the desired effect (although it won't be admitted, not publicly).  It's like investigators/detectives will always try to conduct interviews/interrogations back in their office, it's their turf/phycological advantage/physical advantage/safety advantage and they don't care about the convenience to anyone else.

 

There is almost always a reason why things are done the way they are done.  It's almost always never to make things comfortable or easy or convenient for subjects and for the most part, family/friends don't enter into their equations.  

Not to get into an argument, but the optics IMO was simply bad.  Do you consider anyone from Royal that escorts one off the ship as a law enforcement official.  Also, the individual that escorted us was a Diamond Lounge Concierge and does he have any responsibility to help and advice D members.

[Ret MP]

15 minutes ago, nolimits said:

You didn’t do anything wrong till you pass thru customs and not declare purchase

So not a suspect a customer of the ship and its stores 

Technically you violate the law when you enter into American waters if you are in possession of contraband.  A ship is not a safe haven.  The corridor (whatever that may be) from the ship to the CBP is a courtesy for you to present all items that should be declared.  If you do or don't, that's your decision.  However, technically you have already introduced items into the U.S.  There are many drug dealers/transporters/smugglers that get busted long before they make it to American real property.  Yes, I know we are talking about a watch here.  But, a lot of big cases are initiated by the small/little thing.  I always trained my people, make the small inquiries, there is a decent chance that they will bloom into something substantial.  

[Charles4515]

8 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Once Law Enforcement gets involved in an official capacity, it's all about safety for EVERYONE, the tactical advantage, the phycological advantage, what ever advantage benefits the situation and officer(s)/agent(s).  If the family chooses to follow (yes, I know that there, in this type situation, isn't much option) along, that's their decision.  The officer/agent will be as accommodating to the family as possible.  But, worrying about convenience to the subject/family/friends is not one of the priorities.  In fact, in the security business, inconvenience is generally the desired effect (although it won't be admitted, not publicly).  It's like investigators/detectives will always try to conduct interviews/interrogations back in their office, it's their turf/phycological advantage/physical advantage/safety advantage and they don't care about the convenience to anyone else.

 

There is almost always a reason why things are done the way they are done.  It's almost always never to make things comfortable or easy or convenient for subjects and for the most part, family/friends don't enter into their equations.  

 

Where I worked  which was a customer oriented busness we had our own police force. They were always what I call rough and rude. So after seeing that the first few times I only called them as a last resort. I am glad we had them because they were definitly needed but they were trained to assume the worst. 

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, nelblu said:

Here's a novel idea how about placing a sign at the counter(s) so that the customer may be better informed.  When local restaurants and other establishments began charging a service fee for using credit cards, there were signs posted upon entering, at the cashier counter and in some cases in menus.  

 

On one of the compasses from our recent Oasis sail states the following "Enjoy tax- and duty-free savings on board".  There is no disclaimer to this statement that it is subject to the US $800 Customs rule.  Less egregious statements from corporations have triggered lawsuits in the US.

A sign would be of absolutely ZERO benefit.  There are multiple nationalities on board with multiple reporting standards and expectations. This is VERY simply a matter of personal responsibility.

 

With respect to your lawsuit comment, i think one would be hard pressed to find a successful one that fits the bill here.

[Charles4515]

14 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Yep, we never buy anything of much value in foreign countries that we plan to bring back to the U.S.  The most expensive items we bring back is a bottle of Vodka or Rum each.  Otherwise, we buy little $3.00 - $5.00 key chains or alike.  

 

Unless it is local art I don't make any purchases anymore. Those $3 key chains made in China slways end up in a drawer. 

[Ret MP]

2 minutes ago, nelblu said:

Not to get into an argument, but the optics IMO was simply bad.  Do you consider anyone from Royal that escorts one off the ship as a law enforcement official.  Also, the individual that escorted us was a Diamond Lounge Concierge and does he have any responsibility to help and advice D members.

Of course I'm not considering the CREW as "Official" officer(s)/Agent(s).  However, the captain of the ship is the top security official ON the ship and he/she can designate members of his crew to certain tasks that involve security.  I don't know if you know it or not, but the Captain has the authority to place someone in confinement/the Brig., but that has nothing to do with the U.S. Justice system.  

 

And I don't consider this to be an "argument".  I'm merely presenting the Law Enforcement side of the business as I see it.  You are welcome to, and have, presented you opinion/side of things.

[Charles4515]

7 minutes ago, nelblu said:

Not to get into an argument, but the optics IMO was simply bad.  Do you consider anyone from Royal that escorts one off the ship as a law enforcement official.  Also, the individual that escorted us was a Diamond Lounge Concierge and does he have any responsibility to help and advice D members.

It is better that someone who is customer service trained does it then security personnel. As someone explained above security has a different mindset.. 

[nolimits]

Customs window is first place you get to declare purchases. Not entering US waters 

Apples and Oranges  or Watches and Drugs 

You can’t declare till off the ship 

That’s the problem You bought a watch and everybody that heard that alarm then saw you escorted to office by shipstaff not ship security is looking thinking Drugs or Worse

You should instruct your people not everyone is a criminal but catch and punish the ones that Are 

[Ret MP]

4 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Unless it is local art I don't make any purchases anymore. Those $3 key chains made in China slways end up in a drawer. 

Yep, they do.  But, it's the thought that counts.

[Charles4515]

1 minute ago, nolimits said:

That’s the problem You bought a watch and everybody that heard that alarm then saw you escorted to office by shipstaff not ship security is looking thinking Drugs or Worse

 

 

I would never assume that. Passengers get bonged because their final credit card did not go through and while not on the ship I have had cards fail because the the algorithm was suspicious or the proccesing system was down. 

[Ret MP]

10 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

A sign would be of absolutely ZERO benefit.  There are multiple nationalities on board with multiple reporting standards and expectations. This is VERY simply a matter of personal responsibility.

 

With respect to your lawsuit comment, i think one would be hard pressed to find a successful one that fits the bill here.

💯% right-on!

[Mum2Mercury]

29 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Once Law Enforcement gets involved in an official capacity, it's all about safety for EVERYONE, the tactical advantage, the phycological advantage, what ever advantage benefits the situation and officer(s)/agent(s).  If the family chooses to follow (yes, I know that there, in this type situation, isn't much option) along, that's their decision.  The officer/agent will be as accommodating to the family as possible.  But, worrying about convenience to the subject/family/friends is not one of the priorities.  In fact, in the security business, inconvenience is generally the desired effect (although it won't be admitted, not publicly).  It's like investigators/detectives will always try to conduct interviews/interrogations back in their office, it's their turf/phycological advantage/physical advantage/safety advantage and they don't care about the convenience to anyone else.

 

There is almost always a reason why things are done the way they are done.  It's almost always never to make things comfortable or easy or convenient for subjects and for the most part, family/friends don't enter into their equations.  

Of course, I've got nothing to do with law enforcement ... but I've been a high school teacher for three decades, and I can relate to what you're saying:  When I need to talk to a student about something bad, Teaching 101 says, "Separate the student from the class."  My partner teacher and I kept two desks in the hall /between our two rooms for this purpose.  If a student was misbehaving, it was always good to take him away "from his audience".  90% of the time the negative behavior stopped when the student no longer needed to "show off" for others.  And if I was going to say something bad (you're failing this class, or I know you copied that paper from the internet), it was always better to say it in private.  So I totally understand separating the individual.  

 

Taking another tact, suppose he had bought that watch for someone as a gift?  It would've been bad for the cruise line to announce, "So that $$$$ watch you bought ..."  

[nolimits]

Customs window is first place you get to declare purchases. Not entering US waters 

Apples and Oranges  or Watches and Drugs 

You can’t declare till off the ship 

That’s the problem You bought a watch and everybody that heard that alarm then saw you escorted to office by shipstaff not ship security is looking thinking Drugs or Worse

You should instruct your people not everyone is a criminal but catch and punish the ones that Are