Condition of Epic

[Captain-John]

22 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

By way of perspective, I offer the following

I'm sorry to hear about that and I admire your positive outlook despite the challenges. 

[BermudaBound2014]

22 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

 the property is unlivable, we had no flood insurance and neither did our condo association, so we will likely get next to nothing and the cost to rebuild will be at least $65,000,

 

Omgosh what a nightmare. Hurricane Ian was a true tragedy of epic proportions.

 

I applaud your ability to overlook the ships condition, but I do wish the Epic was in better condition for those who have chosen to sail on her.

 

10 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Well, that's understandable. It appears they might have undertaken more of these fixes had they not been waylaid by Covid. I'll forgive them for that, it's not as if they ignored these things so much as couldn't get them done. (But it sounds like they will in 2023.)

 

I admire you always spinning things positive and would also be more understanding of the ships conditions (as I mentioned above, NCL isn't the only one sailing ships in need of attention); but I do feel that NCL is misleading when stating that the ship was refurbished in 2020. There are most certainly lots of people who will choose Epic thinking she is still shiny given she has only carried passengers for 11 months since the supposed 'refurb'. I know that without this particular threat that would be my conclusion.

 

At the very least,  NCL could change the literature published to state "Haven refurbished in 2020". 

 

 

[tsahall01]

On 10/27/2022 at 10:25 AM, BermudaBound2014 said:

@Captain-John can you see areas where the Epic was refurbished? Maybe they just did public areas? 

It has been my understanding that they just did the Haven area.  I have been on the Epic twice this year with one more sailing in December.  I noticed many more things in need of attention on my September cruise--my April cruise was absolutely wonderful!

[DCGuy64]

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

At the very least,  NCL could change the literature published to state "Haven refurbished in 2020". 

Absolutely!! Far more honest and less likely to lead to confusion/disappointment.

 

[pc_load_letter]

On 10/27/2022 at 6:00 AM, DCGuy64 said:

I appreciate the OP's taking the time to post the pictures and stuff, but I gotta wonder: wouldn't it be less time consuming to stop posting on CC and talk with the staff who are right there on the same ship as he is? Don't get me wrong: I think you can do both, but I'm just saying if he's upset about the conditions on the ship, why isn't he using his time productively to bring these matters to the attention of the people who can actually do something about it right now?

 

Nah, I appreciate the pics. What would guest services even do? Move him to a different room? What if they're sold out? The rooms are cleaned everyday so clearly something is wrong with this ships process and procedures.

 

More likely than not, they would apologize, give him $100 FCC and call it a day.

[eileeshb]

I was on Epic twice in the past year, the first was October last year in an inside cabin, and the second was March of this year in a studio cabin. Both cabins had cosmetic issues, a handle missing from one of the wardrobes in the studio and the veneer lifting on the desk in the inside cabin. In general it seemed like a lot of small stuff that arises from standard wear and tear, I’d hoped the cruise lines would have taken advantage of the lengthy shutdown to do deep refurbs on the ships but obviously the lack of cash flow during that time would have limited that. Now that they’re back in operation they could opt to shut down sections of cabins to do that sort of work on an ongoing basis but that just doesn’t seem to enter their mindset. 

[cruiserchris613]

Got off the Epic a month ago and I agree with the OP. 

I work in the maritime/shipbuilding industry and these details certainly catch my attention as well.

 

While our cabin was in a bit better condition than the OP's, I did notice quite a few fixtures that were rusting (mostly likely due to the unique shower design) or were scuffed up and dinged. 

I was also misled thinking that she would be fresh out of a drydock 2 years ago, especially after a whole 1+ year without pax, but come to find out that only the Haven got a nip & tuck. The rest of the ship probably just got a "shave & a haircut" (a colloquialism for bare minimum maintenance).

 

I've posted the below picture of the illuminated signboard on another thread regarding Spice, but pretty sums up the condition of the ship. And we were docked in front of the sparkling new Wonder OTS. 

[cruiserchris613]

Got off the Epic a month ago and I agree with the OP. 

I work in the maritime/shipbuilding industry and these details certainly catch my attention as well.

 

While our cabin was in a bit better condition than the OP's, I did notice quite a few fixtures that were rusting (mostly likely due to the unique shower design) or were scuffed up and dinged. 

I was also misled thinking that she would be fresh out of a drydock 2 years ago, especially after a whole 1+ year without pax, but come to find out that only the Haven got a nip & tuck. The rest of the ship probably just got a "shave & a haircut" (a colloquialism for bare minimum maintenance).

 

I've posted the below picture of the illuminated signboard on another thread regarding Spice, but pretty sums up the condition of the ship. And we were docked in front of the sparkling new Wonder OTS. 

[blueslily]

On 10/27/2022 at 11:24 AM, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

If true that the refurb was only in Haven, the information available about the Epic is alittle misleading.

 

But, that does make sense, because this ship looks far from refurbished. It looks pretty worn with things that can't be fixed without significant disruption to guests.  

 

 If they ONLY did the haven, I would think that could be noted in the Epics refurbish description. I get it why they wouldn't, but that does lead to unrealistic expectations. 

 

I think usually they focus on specific areas, not the entire ship, right?  And, it is noted what they plan to refurbish during drydock OR at least, I'm usually aware of those specific plans when reading here, lol. CC folks usually posts the drydock refurbish plans. Awesome. 

 

As another poster said, many of the issues in the pictures can be fixed now without major disruption to guests. I'm glad the OP is going to share the feedback now.  Some of the stuff in the pics is not that big to do with paying passengers on board. Even stuff in his cabin. 

 

[blueslily]

On 10/28/2022 at 11:54 AM, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Omgosh what a nightmare. Hurricane Ian was a true tragedy of epic proportions.

 

I applaud your ability to overlook the ships condition, but I do wish the Epic was in better condition for those who have chosen to sail on her.

 

 

I admire you always spinning things positive and would also be more understanding of the ships conditions (as I mentioned above, NCL isn't the only one sailing ships in need of attention); but I do feel that NCL is misleading when stating that the ship was refurbished in 2020. There are most certainly lots of people who will choose Epic thinking she is still shiny given she has only carried passengers for 11 months since the supposed 'refurb'. I know that without this particular threat that would be my conclusion.

 

At the very least,  NCL could change the literature published to state "Haven refurbished in 2020". 

 

 

 

Oh, I thought most cruisers knew that when it says refurbished in whatever year or even when it's an upcoming drydock, the entire ship is not getting a facelift. Sorry, just thought most seasoned cruisers knew that usually specific areas and projects were planned during that time. Not everything. Plus, with all that has been going on, many drydocks were cancelled or things just didnt go as planned for refurbishing. But, I dont know the exact dates in 2020 that Epic was in drydock for her refurbishment/projects. Like Escape was just in drydock, but only something specific was done. But, I guess that might be seen as different and everyone knows the focus of that drydock. 

 

Hope people with booked cruises on Epic still have a good time or if their sailing is far out, maybe they will change to a different ship if they believe their experience will be negatively impacted too much to enjoy their cruise. I get that. It is indeed sad to see the condition of Epic. I know it's a ship that many people have lots of strong options about, but in the past, I've enjoy the layout of the ship, including the bathrooms. LoL. 

 

Good night all. Happy cruising. 

[BermudaBound2014]

55 minutes ago, blueslily said:

 

Oh, I thought most cruisers knew that when it says refurbished in whatever year or even when it's an upcoming drydock, the entire ship is not getting a facelift. Sorry, just thought most seasoned cruisers knew that usually specific areas and projects were planned during that time. Not everything. Plus, with all that has been going on, many drydocks were cancelled or things just didnt go as planned for refurbishing. But, I dont know the exact dates in 2020 that Epic was in drydock for her refurbishment/projects. Like Escape was just in drydock, but only something specific was done. But, I guess that might be seen as different and everyone knows the focus of that drydock. 

 

Hope people with booked cruises on Epic still have a good time or if their sailing is far out, maybe they will change to a different ship if they believe their experience will be negatively impacted too much to enjoy their cruise. I get that. It is indeed sad to see the condition of Epic. I know it's a ship that many people have lots of strong options about, but in the past, I've enjoy the layout of the ship, including the bathrooms. LoL. 

 

Good night all. Happy cruising. 

 

I believe a drydock and an advertised refurbishment are two entirely different things. NCL is advertising the Epic as having undergone a refurbishment. As mentioned above, that was in November of 2020. What really happened was that the Haven was refurbished due to (understandably) challenges with covid. My stance is that NCL should not advertise a refurbishment when in fact, only a select few guests will benefit from the work. Or at the very least disclose upfront that it was only the Haven.

 

 I don't believe NCL is advertising the recent drydock of the Escape as a refurbishment. Are they? 

 

 

1 hour ago, blueslily said:

 

I think usually they focus on specific areas, not the entire ship, right?  

 

When i sailed the Jade she was refurbished top to bottom. Even the staterooms got all new soft surroundings. Same when I sailed on the Zuiderdam right after a refurbishment. I distinctly remember the new carpet smell throughout the entire ship including my stateroom. I am unaware of any scheduled refurbishments that only concentrate on one small specific area like the Haven but I certainly could be wrong on this.  

 

If NCL would simply add the word "Haven" when describing the refurbishment done in 2020 there would be less room for confusion. It's clear to me that the Epic is in pretty rough shape outside of Haven. I have always been willing to pay a bit extra to sail on a ship that was newly renovated. I would be disappointed if I paid extra to select Epic thinking she was spiffed up.  

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[old nutter]

We had a superb cruise a few weeks ago on Epic. The staff were wonderful. The general condition of the ship was pretty good for us.  We were in the Haven and so cannot comment on other accommodation.  The only place we noticed the effect of the pandemic lay-off in the suite was the serious pealing on the balcony where the rail varnish had pealed down to the wood.  Curing this would involve serious sanding or replacement and would not be very easy with customers around, and being minor it did not spoil the trip for us at all.

 

The public areas were in very good condition in the main, apart from one glaring example.  The Epic is inherently short of areas with open views to the sea by design.  Most of those areas are on deck 15.  The forward and midships areas are well looked after as are the open decks on Deck 16.  However, the problems that have caused the closing of H2O and the Sports Area also including the closure of the climbing wall, the mini golf the Market Place and some of the children's water features mean that the stern section of Deck 15 has been left pretty-well derelict.  H2O is well barred but walking round that zone of the ship gives a very poor impression.  No effort has been made to make this area attractive.  Maybe the problem causing the closures is making this part of the ship uninhabitable, so NCL do not want customers spending time here? Whatever the reason this problem takes the shine of what otherwise looks a pretty-well maintained ship.

[Maria63]

5 hours ago, old nutter said:

We had a superb cruise a few weeks ago on Epic. The staff were wonderful. The general condition of the ship was pretty good for us.  We were in the Haven and so cannot comment on other accommodation.  The only place we noticed the effect of the pandemic lay-off in the suite was the serious pealing on the balcony where the rail varnish had pealed down to the wood.  Curing this would involve serious sanding or replacement and would not be very easy with customers around, and being minor it did not spoil the trip for us at all.

 

The public areas were in very good condition in the main, apart from one glaring example.  The Epic is inherently short of areas with open views to the sea by design.  Most of those areas are on deck 15.  The forward and midships areas are well looked after as are the open decks on Deck 16.  However, the problems that have caused the closing of H2O and the Sports Area also including the closure of the climbing wall, the mini golf the Market Place and some of the children's water features mean that the stern section of Deck 15 has been left pretty-well derelict.  H2O is well barred but walking round that zone of the ship gives a very poor impression.  No effort has been made to make this area attractive.  Maybe the problem causing the closures is making this part of the ship uninhabitable, so NCL do not want customers spending time here? Whatever the reason this problem takes the shine of what otherwise looks a pretty-well maintained ship.

 

As I stated before, my DH & I are also currently on Epic. I totally agree with your assessment re deck 15. We have an aft-balcony on deck 13 and therefore pass through the "desolated" aft-area of the pool-deck daily, and it is indeed not very nice. As mentioned before, another area that needs urgent attention is the thermal spa, though, as I have also said, my DH and myself otherwise find the spa to be very nice indeed. (Btw, and in case anyone from NCL pays attention to this thread, one of the main water-sprouts in the middle of the spa-pool now has a leak. It has obviously been fixed before, but now the welding-seam is leaking water and the fixture is coming loose...)

 

For my part I also agree with OP:s criticisms, and Epic should imo not be marketed as "fully refurbished" as it very obviously is no such thing. However, I also have to say that our cruise has so far been very enjoyable, and the issues mentioned have had no major impact on our general positive experience. The service is mostly very good, and the food in the MDRs is imo comparable to the suite-restaurant on RCI:s Wonder and the MDRs on Celebrity Beyond (we sailed with both in the weeks before our current cruise). But the fact remains that there are some easily fixed maintenance-issues on Epic that need urgent attention, to assure continued customer satisfaction and avoid unnecessary complaints.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Maria63

[Captain-John]

1 hour ago, Maria63 said:

Btw, and in case anyone from NCL pays attention to this thread, one of the main water-sprouts in the middle of the spa-pool now has a leak. It has obviously been fixed before, but now the welding-seam is leaking water and the fixture is coming loose...)

 Sure is! And the spouts for the overhead jets are rusting. 

 

[Captain-John]

By way of update and in the interests of balance - I approached the desk again to ask for more details on the letter I would be receiving on disembarkation day (I wanted to know what detail of my complaint was recorded ship side). I had also put a comment in the 'Suggestion box' that goes to the 'General Manager' (is this new speak for Hotel Director?) about the cabin and ship conditions. 

 

This double whammy has led to an offer of a change in cabin, which I declined after inspection (no proximity to spa and similar wear and tear to existing cabin). Anyway that wasn't offered when I first complained but I was open to it, as a partial resolution to my issues, but in reality it wouldn't have worked. 

 

This morning, the 'second in command' (can't remember her exact title, assistant housekeeping manager perhaps) was outside our stateroom along with our room steward.

 

I was very clear that my comments were not relating to the service received from our steward who is very good and doing the job as she will have been shown. I showed the manager a number of the issues within the stateroom I have described to this board and to Guest Services. She agreed with my points and acknowledged the ship was now 'older' and in need of refreshing. 

 

The room has been given a 'deep clean' by both our steward and her manager, which has taken care of some of the issues I've noted, but of course there is only so much that can be done when the cabin is in active use.

 

She also arranged for maintenance to attend whilst we were on Santorini, and I am pleased to report the damaged cabinetry has been repaired, and some of the rust on the balcony painted over, with an inhibitor applied to the other areas of rust awaiting a a coat of paint when it's been neutralised. Additionally, the banister has been sanded and had a light varnish.

 

This is a good head start if they are not replacing the cabin units any time soon.

 

Thanks to all who suggested I speak to the ship crew in the first instance, as they have been able to do some things to mitigate the issues encountered, that I wouldn't have expected they would be able to.

 

[ew101]

This is probably a good @chengkp75 topic.  I learned something recently on another line.  I brought up a problem I was having with sticky drawer slides.  Like 15% were very hard to open.  I called one in and realized I did not want to have my naps interrupted, etc.  The officer I spoke with said there are two maintenance departments on board.  Ship and hull is one department- they report to the Chief Engineer, Staff Captain, etc.   So engines, bottom paint, fuel tanks, propellers.  The other department handles hotel maintenance.  They report someplace in the Hotel Department.  They fix the vanity, drawers, chairs, etc. 

 

A guess is that in all the cutbacks and shutdowns, the ship repairs were continued, as required by Class, insurance, US Coast Guard, etc.   The hotel stuff, arguably mostly cosmetic, was perhaps not as much.  Rust on balconies has become an issue out here, I'm not sure why.  That is presumably in the ship department vs hotel.  

[DCGuy64]

20 hours ago, Captain-John said:

By way of update and in the interests of balance - I approached the desk again to ask for more details on the letter I would be receiving on disembarkation day (I wanted to know what detail of my complaint was recorded ship side). I had also put a comment in the 'Suggestion box' that goes to the 'General Manager' (is this new speak for Hotel Director?) about the cabin and ship conditions. 

 

This double whammy has led to an offer of a change in cabin, which I declined after inspection (no proximity to spa and similar wear and tear to existing cabin). Anyway that wasn't offered when I first complained but I was open to it, as a partial resolution to my issues, but in reality it wouldn't have worked. 

 

This morning, the 'second in command' (can't remember her exact title, assistant housekeeping manager perhaps) was outside our stateroom along with our room steward.

 

I was very clear that my comments were not relating to the service received from our steward who is very good and doing the job as she will have been shown. I showed the manager a number of the issues within the stateroom I have described to this board and to Guest Services. She agreed with my points and acknowledged the ship was now 'older' and in need of refreshing. 

 

The room has been given a 'deep clean' by both our steward and her manager, which has taken care of some of the issues I've noted, but of course there is only so much that can be done when the cabin is in active use.

 

She also arranged for maintenance to attend whilst we were on Santorini, and I am pleased to report the damaged cabinetry has been repaired, and some of the rust on the balcony painted over, with an inhibitor applied to the other areas of rust awaiting a a coat of paint when it's been neutralised. Additionally, the banister has been sanded and had a light varnish.

 

This is a good head start if they are not replacing the cabin units any time soon.

 

Thanks to all who suggested I speak to the ship crew in the first instance, as they have been able to do some things to mitigate the issues encountered, that I wouldn't have expected they would be able to.

 

Excellent, and may I say, well done on your part! I am so glad to hear you took the time to alert them to your findings and that they have responded, at least in part. This is precisely the approach I was encouraging. Thank you!

[cementhands]

On 10/24/2022 at 9:20 AM, Captain-John said:

Currently onboard. Surprised it hasn't been widely mentioned on these boards. I think Epic is looking very tired and in need of a dry dock and renovation. I was on her third sailing out of Miami in 2010 and it's sad to see how she is now. Lots of rust, varnish peeling off wood, staterooms tired and worn - looks much older than her actual age. Yet I've been on Jade (pre refurb) and she had held up much better despite being older. 

 

Public areas generally OK but there is a coating of yellow on the upper decks (presumable relates to the closure of Spice H20/snoke stack issues). Also the 'flooring' on the upper decks is dirty and tired. Patchy paint repair works with shades that don't match abound. The spa too needs some TLC/regrouting on tiled areas. The top step into the hydrotherapy pool is loose and broken. 

 

I hope for the sake of future cruisers a dry dock and renovations are planned, too late for me. 

 

Can't upload pictures just now but will as soon as I get the chance. Curious if others have noticed the same or is this just a standard we need to accept now? 

 

Is the spice h20 area totally closed ?

we are interested in transatlantic but love the ncl outdoor dancing parties at back of ship h20 adult area, I think I read elsewhere it was temporary closed. Any information greatly appreciated.

 

[Captain-John]

10 hours ago, cementhands said:

Is the spice h20 area totally closed ?

we are interested in transatlantic but love the ncl outdoor dancing parties at back of ship h20 adult area, I think I read elsewhere it was temporary closed. Any information greatly appreciated.

 

On this current sailing which ends on 11/03, Spice H20 is still closed. I don't know of a timeline for reopening I'm afraid. 

 

 

[charlesspinney]

I wonder if a refund will be issued to those who choose to cancel because of this integral part of this ship not being available.   If not opened by next month, I'll seriously consider canceling before I make the final payment for the TA in April.

[Captain-John]

1 hour ago, charlesspinney said:

I wonder if a refund will be issued to those who choose to cancel because of this integral part of this ship not being available.   If not opened by next month, I'll seriously consider canceling before I make the final payment for the TA in April.

I wouldn't bet on it, I don't find NCL very generous when it comes to compensating guests for decisions they make, that impact on the cruise experience (I have an issue with an upcoming Joy sailing that they have altered). 

 

We were provided $50 per cabin as 'compenstion' for the closure of Spice H20 on this sailing (4 glasses of wine if you don't have a beverage package!?), and I believe this has been the case for everyone since it was closed, so it depends on what value you  place on the amenity and if it's worth cancelling or not. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Captain-John

[roxette]

3 hours ago, charlesspinney said:

I wonder if a refund will be issued to those who choose to cancel because of this integral part of this ship not being available.   If not opened by next month, I'll seriously consider canceling before I make the final payment for the TA in April.

I feel the same as you do. I am actually right now looking at other options. 

 

Wish NCL could be open about this, communicate.

[cementhands]

12 hours ago, Captain-John said:

 

On this current sailing which ends on 11/03, Spice H20 is still closed. I don't know of a timeline for reopening I'm afraid. 

 

 

Thanks for the info!

We are on the fence about transatlantic this December following Rome 11 day cruise. Love the dancing opportunities by spice H20 and usually go to sports court too! Lack of exercise is not allowed 🚫 for us with all the food and drinks.

Great information.

[cementhands]

On 10/29/2022 at 4:41 PM, cruiserchris613 said:

Got off the Epic a month ago and I agree with the OP. 

I work in the maritime/shipbuilding industry and these details certainly catch my attention as well.

 

While our cabin was in a bit better condition than the OP's, I did notice quite a few fixtures that were rusting (mostly likely due to the unique shower design) or were scuffed up and dinged. 

I was also misled thinking that she would be fresh out of a drydock 2 years ago, especially after a whole 1+ year without pax, but come to find out that only the Haven got a nip & tuck. The rest of the ship probably just got a "shave & a haircut" (a colloquialism for bare minimum maintenance).

 

I've posted the below picture of the illuminated signboard on another thread regarding Spice, but pretty sums up the condition of the ship. And we were docked in front of the sparkling new Wonder OTS. 

We’re more than a little concerned about that area of the ship spice H20 being closed but are there still a ton of activities elsewhere because on past Ncl cruise of epic a highlight was dancing out back? Was there a lot of activities? I even heard that the nightly comedy club is not manned by comedians. Questionable stuff if activities are non existent.

Wife loves Zumba line dancing live music etc!

Any info greatly appreciated 

Thanks

[charlesspinney]

I have just heard from my NCL travel advisor that the Oct 23rd sailing is the last that H2O will be closed.

Can anyone confirm this?