Starlink Equipped Ships

[twangster]

Dec 20 - 8 pm

 

After leaving Labadee it wasn't the best Voom on Oasis. 

 

 

On our way back to Miami on Oasis.  Looks like we are retracing our route through the Sargosa Sea of bad internet. 

 

 

Dec. 21 6:30am

 

This morning things are looking better on board.  Where we had terrible iinternet on our way south it's now pretty usable albeit still with a 9x4 per user speed limit. 

 

 

This morning I've been able to stream from several sources, ESPN+ (which wouldn't stream last night), Netflix (which buffered last night) and Plex local TV stations from home (which failed last night).

 

On board it's WiFi 5 using 20Mhz channels. 

 

On my balcony:

 

 

 

Position

 

 

It feels like we had an issue like a bad modem or antenna and they've fixed it. 

[Biker19]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

albeit still with a 9x4 per user speed limit. 

Not sure why folks assume that once a ship switches to Starlink they should get something other than long ago established limits?

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

Not sure why folks assume that once a ship switches to Starlink they should get something other than long ago established limits?

In reality I’d be happy to have the old “good” limits on all the ships. Would I pay more for a super stream, maybe.  OK, more like probably. I’d like a reliable good product across the board. Mariner and Serenade were painful for internet. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by A&L_Ont

[twangster]

2 hours ago, Biker19 said:

Not sure why folks assume that once a ship switches to Starlink they should get something other than long ago established limits?

 

The speed limits used in 2013 when Royal ladt did a fleet wide upgrade were good for the time.  Home internet was typically 20 to 30 Mbps back them. 

 

Fast forward a decade and we've come a long ways over 10 years.  Home internet is typically 200Mbps and many have 1Gbps at home.  Yet Royal is still stuck in 2013 ways with the slowest internet at sea while other mass marketing lines have zoomed past Royal. 

 

Granted Starlink isn't fully operational. Only time will tell if Royal will attempt to retake the title of fastest internet at sea once Starlink is more complete.

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by twangster

[Biker19]

29 minutes ago, twangster said:

Yet Royal is still stuck in 2013 ways with the slowest internet at sea while other mass marketing lines have zoomed past Royal. 

Not sure that is a fair description. RCI was one of the first with O3B and while they quit the upgrades once they finished with Freedom class, about half the fleet had it. Few other lines, if any, had that much installed base on a single brand.

 

Unless you are downloading large files (few have that need), latency is the most important determinant of user perceived performance and O3B helped a lot with that.

 

We are at that point again, with Starlink, where the latency improvement, not speed, will likely make the generic users happier with the performance. Yes, switching from Surf to Stream is meaningful, but upping the speed of Stream from 4Mbps to say, the 10Mbps you are seeing on Oasis, will likely be hardly noticeable for most users. Not sure any other mainstream brand (10+ ships) is zooming by RCI for best internet at sea.

[Ret MP]

37 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

The speed limits used in 2013 when Royal ladt did a fleet wide upgrade were good for the time.  Home internet was typically 20 to 30 Mbps back them. 

 

Fast forward a decade and we've come a long ways over 10 years.  Home internet is typically 200Mbps and many have 1Gbps at home.  Yet Royal is still stuck in 2013 ways with the slowest internet at sea while other mass marketing lines have zoomed past Royal. 

 

Granted Starlink isn't fully operational. Only time will tell if Royal will attempt to retake the title of fastest internet at sea once Starlink is more complete.

 

Serious question, no nefarious intent, I don't know enough about this stuff to have any nefarious intent:  Isn't the end goal for RCCL's installation of Starlink to make the internet bigger, better and faster?  Don't we know, the general public, what speed they are trying to achieve or are they just trying to get to the "fastest at sea"?  I would hate to think they are spending all that money to remain stagnant with 2013 speed or pre-Starlink speeds.  

[Biker19]

3 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Isn't the end goal for RCCL's installation of Starlink to make the internet bigger, better and faster? 

Marketing wise, sure, but the reality is that there are so many variables that any single other ship from another brand at one time could make that claim. RCI hasn't and won't put any numbers in writing to make that claim because the slogans are good enough. BTW, the main goal for RCI was to save money by installing Starlink.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Biker19

[Ret MP]

Just now, Biker19 said:

Marketing wise, sure, but the reality is that there are so many variables that any single other ship from another brand at one time could make that claim. RCI hasn't and won't put any numbers in writing to make that claim because the slogans are good enough.

LOL because it is hilariously so typical.  Keep you like a mushroom, keep you in the dark and feed you ^@!*.  

[twangster]

5 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Not sure that is a fair description. RCI was one of the first with O3B and while they quit the upgrades once they finished with Freedom class, about half the fleet had it. Few other lines, if any, had that much installed base on a single brand.

 

Unless you are downloading large files (few have that need), latency is the most important determinant of user perceived performance and O3B helped a lot with that.

 

We are at that point again, with Starlink, where the latency improvement, not speed, will likely make the generic users happier with the performance. Yes, switching from Surf to Stream is meaningful, but upping the speed of Stream from 4Mbps to say, the 10Mbps you are seeing on Oasis, will likely be hardly noticeable for most users. Not sure any other mainstream brand (10+ ships) is zooming by RCI for best internet at sea.

 

Before the shutdown Princess converted their last old ship to SES/O3b.  They also don't use per user speed limits.  It works really well.  At times over 220Mbps.  

 

Royal was an important launch client for O3b with Quantum.  However once they saw they could charge the same for Voom S&S and pull the wool over our eyes they stopped converting old ships to O3b.  Why would they pay more for something they could market and sell no different than speedcast?

 

In other words they learned they could charge the same for the old, slow and cheaper technology. 

 

At Royal it isn't about delivering on the marketing claim of "Fastest Internet at Sea".  It's only about money.  

[twangster]

BTW - The move to Starlink isn't to deliver better internet.  It's all about switching to a cheaper supplier.  

[A&L_Ont]

5 minutes ago, twangster said:

BTW - The move to Starlink isn't to deliver better internet.  It's all about switching to a cheaper supplier.  

Yes, your last sentence is no surprise at all.  Do you think it will be better service overall? 
 

Do you think there will be the poor service zones, like when it the narrow channels like sailing in Alaska such as to Skagway?

Edited December 21, 2022 by A&L_Ont

[twangster]

Oasis just passed through heavy rain.  My first experience with Starlink and rain like this.

 

This was pretty heavy rain but very localized.  The type of rain that would have knocked out O3b and Speedcast completely.

 

During the rain:

 

 

After the rain and once the skies were blue again:

 

 

If folks were inside and doing simple texting they'd probably never know it rained.

 

My results over this cruise:

 

[twangster]

4 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

Yes, your last sentence is no surprise at all.  Do you think it will be better service overall? 
 

Do you think there will be the poor service zones, like when it the narrow channels like sailing in Alaska such as to Skagway?

 

Right now Starlink can only support one hop to a gateway on land.  At least in this region. 

 

They have started doing satellite to satellite relay but only closer towards the poles.  That's how they are now selling Starlink in Alaska and Northern Canada.  

 

Once the v2 next gen Starlink satellites start going up it will be a game changer.  Those will allow more hops between satellites to reach a gateway on land and that will extend the reach to more of the oceans farther from land. 

 

At least that's the Elon promise.   The gen v2 satellites are also essential to the Elon vision of low latency Starlink.

 

Starlink is "building the airplane as it flies".  It's not nearly complete yet.

 

My gut says it will one day provide excellent service on ships.  We just need to be patient until they get there.

 

I am hopeful next summer will see much improved Alaska ship internet. 

 

Time will tell.  

[A&L_Ont]

Thanks Twangster.  It sounds like there will be growing pains with benefits of stronger service at the start with even better things come. 

[twangster]

25 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

Thanks Twangster.  It sounds like there will be growing pains with benefits of stronger service at the start with even better things come. 

 

O3b and it's beam forming technology that followed a ship was emerging technology in 2014.

 

Starlink's used of phase array antennas and the shear number of satellites in different shells, inclinations and altitudes is also emerging technology.  

 

The company's stated purpose is to serve regions that are underserved.  If you are in rural anywhere it's a game changer even if it isn't all that for metropolitan and larger populations centers where fiber is becoming more common.  When your choice in the middle of nowhere is really weak cellular, nothing or Starlink the solution is fantastic even if it has some challenges at times.  

 

As long as Elon doesn't pull a Telsa Home Solar abrupt change of heart it has a lot of potential.

[Ret MP]

3 hours ago, twangster said:

BTW - The move to Starlink isn't to deliver better internet.  It's all about switching to a cheaper supplier.  

Again, no argument.  But, how much money are they willing to spend to get to that cheaper supplier?  I fully understand you may not have the answer(s).  Just my inquisitive mind, as flawed as it may be, at work.  Makes me wonder if Starlink is subsidizing this install process, heavily.  

[twangster]

16 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Again, no argument.  But, how much money are they willing to spend to get to that cheaper supplier?  I fully understand you may not have the answer(s).  Just my inquisitive mind, as flawed as it may be, at work.  Makes me wonder if Starlink is subsidizing this install process, heavily.  

 

SpaceX used to have a conventional VSAT service on it's small fleet of ships they use to capture SpaceX stuff after rocket launches.  Once Starlink had critical mass SpaceX terminated the VSAT contracts and claims to have realized a 70% reduction in satellite internet expenses.   

 

The hardware cost isn't that significant for a business that spends millions a year on legacy internet expenses.  They can recover the capital costs pretty quickly so the business case is pretty solid.  

 

The legacy satellite providers also charged significant usage fees... $$$$ per GB of transfer.  I suspect that is where the real savings come from.  It was enticing enough to get Royal to jump before the maritime service was ready for prime time.

 

On the other hand after Harmony caused a SpaceX rocket launch to scrub maybe a deal was negotiated in lieu of going after Royal for that mistake.  

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by twangster

[Ret MP]

3 minutes ago, twangster said:

The company's stated purpose is to serve regions that are underserved. 

Ah, yes!  Something that some of us have forgotten, at least me.  I totally forgot that that is the stated purpose.  So, yes, if you have nothing or next to nothing, something better is better than nothing better.  

 

Having said that, I must caution that that was the stated intent, way back when, of Sam Walton with Walmart, to begin with, to serve the rural communities with inexpensive goods.  It is now hard to find a major U.S. City or even some foreign cities, for that matter, without a Walmart.   Watch Starlink grow much more than just the stated purpose.  That's not a criticism, btw.  I believe in and love capitalism and growth.  

[Ret MP]

3 minutes ago, twangster said:

On the other hand after Harmony caused a SpaceX rocket to scrub maybe Elon negotiated a deal in lieu of going after Royal for that mistake.  

That would not surprise me in the least.  Good point!

[Pellaz]

11 hours ago, twangster said:

On the other hand after Harmony caused a SpaceX rocket launch to scrub maybe a deal was negotiated in lieu of going after Royal for that mistake.  

 

As I recall, it might not have been wholly Harmony's or RCI's fault.  Wasn't that a polar launch and Harmony, not knowing any better, sailed toward the usual "safe" direction and accidentally got into the range safety area?   

 

We were on Mardi Gras two Octobers ago and were wondering why we were shaking around at flank speed back to Port Canaveral...and it turned out that NASA's Lucy probe was scheduled to launch at 5:30 am and we HAD to be into the port by then.   And we made it, barely.  It launched right as we were passing Jetty Park, which gave us an awesome view...but ruined the view for all the folks at the park.   Sorry 'bout that.  😉  

[soremekun]

 

19 hours ago, Biker19 said:

Not sure why folks assume that once a ship switches to Starlink they should get something other than long ago established limits?

Could they at least double the bandwidth limitations on Anthem?  This is horrendous.

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by soremekun

[twangster]

1 hour ago, soremekun said:

 

Could they at least double the bandwidth limitations on Anthem?  This is horrendous.

 

 

Where is the ship?  The limitation may be due to location.

[soremekun]

54 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Where is the ship?  The limitation may be due to location.

Well, we are currently at Coco Cay and I am impressed!

 

[Biker19]

3 hours ago, soremekun said:

This is horrendous.

Like the weather, wait a minute, it'll get better.

[soremekun]

14 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Like the weather, wait a minute, it'll get better.

Or like real estate, location location location.