And now Viking Experiences Tragedy

[sippican]

The new Viking Polaris was heading back to Ushuaia early due to injuries suffered by a passenger when a zodiac "exploded". According to reports, a rogue wave struck the ship during a storm in the Drake Passage, causing severe damage to the ship, one fatality, and other serious injuries. 

[agreene]

Tragic! 

[donaldsc]

Another post said that the problem was a rogue wave and there was no zodiac explosion.  I don't see how they could pump up a zodiac enough so it could explode anyway.

 

DON

[Hazard10]

1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

Another post said that the problem was a rogue wave and there was no zodiac explosion.  I don't see how they could pump up a zodiac enough so it could explode anyway.

 

DON

There were two problems. The zodiac either burst or could have been pumped up too much? Someone was injured on that which meant the ship had to leave for Argentina early.

 

This rogue wave incident is a separate issue that happened on the route back to Argentina.

[sippican]

2 hours ago, Hazard10 said:

There were two problems. The zodiac either burst or could have been pumped up too much? Someone was injured on that which meant the ship had to leave for Argentina early.

 

This rogue wave incident is a separate issue that happened on the route back to Argentina.

 

Yes, according to reports of those onboard the zodiac "explosion" resulted in a broken leg injury (another passenger was thrown into the water and pulled to safety). Evacuation by helicopter was not feasible so the ship needed to return to port so the injured woman could receive medical care. On the crossing, a rogue wave struck, destroying some cabin windows/walls on deck 2. several passengers were injured and one died.

I am scheduled for the next sailing, which Viking claims will not be impacted! The government of Argentina is investigating. Some passengers have been unable to return to their cabins to retrieve any personal belongings.

[mjlas]

I can confirm this as I have family currently onboard.  The first incident caused the ship to turn around back to Ushuaia quickly, going through the Drake Passage.  The boat was hit by a rogue wave during the night.  At least 5 balcony windows/doors were broken and at least 1 wall between cabins fell down.  That area of the boat is in bad shape.  One person died either during the incident or shortly after arriving to hospital on land.  The passengers are still onboard but will be taking a charter flight out to Buenos Aires tomorrow.  

[Heidi13]

On 12/1/2022 at 3:39 AM, Hazard10 said:

There were two problems. The zodiac either burst or could have been pumped up too much? Someone was injured on that which meant the ship had to leave for Argentina early.

 

This rogue wave incident is a separate issue that happened on the route back to Argentina.

 

Provided the pressure relief valves are operating, the inflation collars cannot be over inflated, as each compartment has 1 or more pressure relief valves. When topping off the collars, we continued inflating them until the relief valves let go, which is how they are tested.

 

During annual recertification the pressure relief valves are blocked and the collar is inflated to 2x to 3x the working pressure. Therefore the fabric and heat welded seams are capable of handling significantly more pressure.

[pdmlynek]

On 12/2/2022 at 3:36 PM, Heidi13 said:

 

Provided the pressure relief valves are operating, the inflation collars cannot be over inflated, as each compartment has 1 or more pressure relief valves. When topping off the collars, we continued inflating them until the relief valves let go, which is how they are tested.

 

During annual recertification the pressure relief valves are blocked and the collar is inflated to 2x to 3x the working pressure. Therefore the fabric and heat welded seams are capable of handling significantly more pressure.

Thank yo ufor the explanation.  What do you think that happened in this case then?  Why would a compartment explode so?

[Heidi13]

7 hours ago, pdmlynek said:

Thank yo ufor the explanation.  What do you think that happened in this case then?  Why would a compartment explode so?

 

Based on what I have read and my knowledge of RHIB's, my best guess for root cause is the boat was contacted by a large underwater mammal, causing an upwards force. Another less likely possibility is contact with an uncharted underwater obstruction.

 

The term "Explosion" was used by a passenger to describe the event and has not been proven by facts that have been published, at this time.

[pdmlynek]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Based on what I have read and my knowledge of RHIB's, my best guess for root cause is the boat was contacted by a large underwater mammal, causing an upwards force. Another less likely possibility is contact with an uncharted underwater obstruction.

 

The term "Explosion" was used by a passenger to describe the event and has not been proven by facts that have been published, at this time.

Thank you for your explanation. 

 

I agree that I do not think that there was any "explosion", as in a violent chemical reaction.  It sounds like that the passengers described a rapid decompression of a boyancy bladder. 

 

Do RHIBs have some sort of automatic inflation devices like many liferafts?

 

Is it possible that the rapid decompression was caused by just normal wear & tear?  Is it possible that it was just an older boat, and given the right stresses at the moment, it just went off?

 

Or maybe given that the decompression was in a bladder under the boat which may be scrapped against the beach rocks when the RHIB hits the shore?  Could there have been some fracture in the bladder developed earlier in the cruise? 

 

You may be right that it might have been a collision with a large underwater mammal.  The Trusdale video shows penguins leaping out of the water about 3 seconds before the incident.  

 

 

Is this another danger of travel to Antarctica that we need to be aware of?  Killer penguins? Penguins hunting tourists? Zodiac killers?

 

 

 

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, pdmlynek said:

Thank you for your explanation. 

 

I agree that I do not think that there was any "explosion", as in a violent chemical reaction.  It sounds like that the passengers described a rapid decompression of a boyancy bladder. 

 

Do RHIBs have some sort of automatic inflation devices like many liferafts?

The RHIB's have a manual pump/bellows that can be used to top off the chambers. I have worked with all the commercial liferaft manufacturers and have never seen a liferaft with automatic inflation. Liferafts are supplied with bottles of Nitogen/CO2 that are required to inflate the raft in 60 secs. Any topping up is completed using the included pump/bellows.

 

2 hours ago, pdmlynek said:

 

Is it possible that the rapid decompression was caused by just normal wear & tear?  Is it possible that it was just an older boat, and given the right stresses at the moment, it just went off?

These are new Zodiac Hurricane Mil Spec boats designed for military and commercial use. The inflation collars are substantial material that is degraded by UV light. These boats reside in an internal garage when not in use, so are only subjected to UV when in use. I have operated many boats from the same manufacturer that we over 20 yrs old and the tubes passed annual inspection. They could always have a manufacturing defect, but being low pressure a rapid deflation is hardly explosive.

2 hours ago, pdmlynek said:

 

Or maybe given that the decompression was in a bladder under the boat which may be scrapped against the beach rocks when the RHIB hits the shore?  Could there have been some fracture in the bladder developed earlier in the cruise? 

While I haven't seen or worked on the specific boats Viking use, I have operated many similar boats from the Zodiac Hurricane Technology factory in Delta BC. The collars are all attached to the side of the frame and they have nothing below. Again, a low pressure bladder deflation is unlikely to result in explosive type forces to propel a adult. In fact, with decompression, if sitting on the bladder you would drop.

 

 

[Nitemare]

18 hours ago, pdmlynek said:

 

 

 

Is this another danger of travel to Antarctica that we need to be aware of?  Killer penguins? Penguins hunting tourists? Zodiac killers?

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_volcanoes_in_Antarctica

[pdmlynek]

5 hours ago, Nitemare said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_volcanoes_in_Antarctica

😄 😄 Thanks!

I knew that volcanoes in Antarctica exist, and that on geological scale highly active vocanic activity has resulted in increasing the velocity of ice sheets which in turn has increased the ocean levels, but wow, that's a lot of volcanoes all over the continent!

 

Also, it is concerning that there are so many volcanoes around the Antarctic Peninsula.  Several years ago I've read the evacuation plans for some station on Deception Island, and for most events there was a contingency plan, but for some, it read like: "yeah, if this event happens, there is nothing that can be done, and you'll 100% die."  Scary reading.

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by pdmlynek

[pdmlynek]

I guess that I am not using the terminology correctly.  Aren't the liferafts inflate, as you write, in 60 seconds, just automatically inflated?  

 

Further, doesn't SOLAS require hydrostatic release and automatic inflation of liferafts if a ship sinks?

 

Or am I not understanding you?

 

 

21 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

I have worked with all the commercial liferaft manufacturers and have never seen a liferaft with automatic inflation. Liferafts are supplied with bottles of Nitogen/CO2 that are required to inflate the raft in 60 secs. 

 

 

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, pdmlynek said:

I guess that I am not using the terminology correctly.  Aren't the liferafts inflate, as you write, in 60 seconds, just automatically inflated?  

 

Further, doesn't SOLAS require hydrostatic release and automatic inflation of liferafts if a ship sinks?

 

Or am I not understanding you?

 

 

 

My reference to automatic inflation was for inflated rafts for topping up. There is no automatic system for topping up the chambers, as all gas from the cylinders is used during the initial inflation.

 

For initial inflation, rafts can be manually inflated, or automatically inflate depending on the manufacturer and type of raft. In general, the CO2/Nitrogen bottles are armed with a pin, which is secured to the painter line. When the painter is pulled, the pins are removed and the gas inflates the raft.

 

The old traditional "Throw-over" liferafts have a number of bands, which are intended to keep the cannister together when impacting the water. To inflate, pull the remaining painter out the raft, then give a sharp tug, which removes the pins and commences inflation. Any remaining bands are severed by the rapid inflation. When stowed in cradles, the painter is attached to the ship and the raft is secured with a hydrostatic release. Should the ship sink, the raft is released and when the painter is full extended it triggers inflation. A weak link separates and the raft rises to the surface.

 

Davit-Launched liferafts are stowed in a similar manner and operate the same way should the ship sink. To inflate these rafts, they are attached to the crane, swung overboard, bowsing lines attached and then the painter is pulled out then given a sharp tug.

 

Marine evacuation systems vary by manufacturer. The RFD Marin Ark is a self contained system with 4 rafts and 2 vertical shutes. Each entire system is installed into each compartment. It is activated normally using stored pressure to push a sledge over the ship's side and the entire system falls into the water. All 4 rafts inflate automatically. Multiple hydrostactic releases are installed should the ship sink. Additional over-capacity rafts are remotely or manually released to the water. These are normally inflated manually by pulling the painter.

 

Viking Lifesaving - haven't used their system in over 20 years and they have an updated MES, which I have seen on film, but not attended a deployment or servicing. Memory is vague, so I can't guarantee accurate info.

 

Lifesaving Equipment Australia - slide systems that have the slide and initial rafts inflate automatically, once activated. Additional capacity rafts are released manually or remotely and do not inflate once in the water. Painter is pulled to inflate.

 

Hope this explains the systems fully. If not, feel free to ask any questions.

 

[pdmlynek]

52 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

My reference to automatic inflation was for inflated rafts for topping up. There is no automatic system for topping up the chambers, as all gas from the cylinders is used during the initial inflation.

...

OK, now, I undertand you.  Thank you for your helpful disussion!🙂 

[pdmlynek]

59 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

...

In general, the CO2/Nitrogen bottles are armed with a pin, which is secured to the painter line. When the painter is pulled, the pins are removed and the gas inflates the raft.

...

 

Two quick questions:

 

(1) The bottle that supplies the nitrogen just contains compressed nitrogen, right?  It is not a reaction product of chemical reaction like sodium azide in airbags, right?

 

(2) Why is the compressed gas nitrogen or CO2?  Why not just use air?  What is the advantage of N2 or CO2?  After all, air is mostly N2 anyway.  Is it to combat moisture? 

 

 

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, pdmlynek said:

 

Two quick questions:

 

(1) The bottle that supplies the nitrogen just contains compressed nitrogen, right?  It is not a reaction product of chemical reaction like sodium azide in airbags, right?

 

(2) Why is the compressed gas nitrogen or CO2?  Why not just use air?  What is the advantage of N2 or CO2?  After all, air is mostly N2 anyway.  Is it to combat moisture? 

 

 

 

The bottles are mostly CO2, with a small amount of nitrogen added to prevent freezing. Immediately after inflation, the valves and fabric are extremely cold, which is why the gas enters the raft in a diffuser to protect the fabric. The gas is contained in multiple bottles, which are secured pockets below the floor.

 

Air is used for the annual recertification, as it degrades the fabric less. I believe CO2 is used as it is cheaper and is stored at lower pressures.

@chengkp75 Hopefully the Chief can contribute his engineering knowledge.

[pdmlynek]

6 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

The bottles are mostly CO2, with a small amount of nitrogen added to prevent freezing. Immediately after inflation, the valves and fabric are extremely cold, which is why the gas enters the raft in a diffuser to protect the fabric. The gas is contained in multiple bottles, which are secured pockets below the floor.

 

Air is used for the annual recertification, as it degrades the fabric less. I believe CO2 is used as it is cheaper and is stored at lower pressures.

@chengkp75 Hopefully the Chief can contribute his engineering knowledge.

Thank you!  I appreciate your helpful comment.  This part of cruising is just so foreign to me.