Who gets the tips if I don't drink $109 in booze per day?

[RocketMan275]

27 minutes ago, phillygwm said:

This. 

 

Like any of us, if the crew felt they weren't fairly compensated and there was a better package elsewhere, they'd look for alternate working arrangements.

It's a shame that so many think they know what's best for other people (like the crew).  There are some who oppose tipping because they think working for tips is morally wrong.  There was a survey in NYC IIRC where those actually working for tips were question whether they prefered working for tips or receiving a "living wage".  Overwhelmingly, the workers prefered working for tips. 

 

I knew a woman who worked as a cocktail waitress.  She made far more money there than she could almost any place else.  This was in the 70s and she often made well over $25/hour.  

[IronRobi]

On 12/7/2022 at 5:29 PM, The Traveling Man said:

As noted in Post #7, NCL clearly states that the Daily Service Charge is used to provide gratuities for crew members.

Actually, in post #7 (as well as in your cruise contract) NCL clearly states the crew is paid a combination of salary and incentive programs. Funding for this comes partly from the DSC. The cruise contract expands on this by saying the remaining portion of the DSC is used to fund a company-wide wellness program. 

 

So the DSC covers:

1) Staff salary

2) Incentive programs of an unknown structure

3) Company-wide wellness program

 

An incentive program is used to incentivize performance. It's not something that is just handed out. I would assume this is based on achieving certain KPI's, whether that be based on guest feedback, profitability, or some other measurement. Speaking with a few crew members last week, they mentioned they can "earn" things like days off or free internet based on reaching a certain number of positive guest comment cards.

 

The DSC is certainly not a tip or gratuity in any way.  I personally have no issue with #2 and 3 on the list, but I don't feel these fees should be going to pay the base wages of the staff. That's where I draw the line.

[MoCruiseFan]

35 minutes ago, IronRobi said:

The DSC is certainly not a tip or gratuity in any way.  I personally have no issue with #2 and 3 on the list, but I don't feel these fees should be going to pay the base wages of the staff. That's where I draw the line.

How is an incentive program paying base wages? An incentive is something one would get/earn that is ABOVE/IN ADDITION TO base wages.

[RocketMan275]

28 minutes ago, MoCruiseFan said:

How is an incentive program paying base wages? An incentive is something one would get/earn that is ABOVE/IN ADDITION TO base wages.

Most would consider wages an integral part of an incentive program.

[ChiefMateJRK]

On 12/7/2022 at 4:15 PM, complawyer said:

zzdoug, if you can drink $109 worth of booze per day, youre a better man than I gunga din!

Isn't that something like seven NCL drinks?

[IronRobi]

4 hours ago, MoCruiseFan said:

How is an incentive program paying base wages? An incentive is something one would get/earn that is ABOVE/IN ADDITION TO base wages.

The fact that their cruise contract states employees are paid a combination of salaries (aka base wages) plus incentive programs. And that it states those salaries and incentive programs are partly funded by the DSC with the remainder to a company-wide wellness program. Now they don't specify how much of the DSC goes where, so for arguments sake let's assume it's split evenly between the 3. So that would mean up to 1/3 of what everybody argues is "tips" goes towards paying the employees base salary! With another 1/3 funding a low-cost bonus like a day off through an incentive program they likely have to work their asses off to achieve.

[MoCruiseFan]

5 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Most would consider wages an integral part of an incentive program.

 

But we are talking about the incentive program being part of BASE WAGES not whether wages are an incentive.

[MoCruiseFan]

1 hour ago, IronRobi said:

The fact that their cruise contract states employees are paid a combination of salaries (aka base wages) plus incentive programs. And that it states those salaries and incentive programs are partly funded by the DSC with the remainder to a company-wide wellness program. Now they don't specify how much of the DSC goes where, so for arguments sake let's assume it's split evenly between the 3. So that would mean up to 1/3 of what everybody argues is "tips" goes towards paying the employees base salary! With another 1/3 funding a low-cost bonus like a day off through an incentive program they likely have to work their asses off to achieve.

 

First off it is none of our business how NCL employees are paid.  Secondly, you know what they say about assumptions, right?  In the third place, tips are not base salary.

[MoCruiseFan]

6 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

There was a survey in NYC IIRC where those actually working for tips were question whether they prefered working for tips or receiving a "living wage".  Overwhelmingly, the workers prefered working for tips.

Of course they prefer being tipped.  In most (if not all) jurisdictions in the USA, the minimum wage for tipped employees is much lower than the "standard" minimum wage, with one HUGE stipulation.  That being, if the hourly wage paid to a tipped employed plus the tipr they receive do not bring them up to at least he "standard" minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference. Ego it is a no lose situation for the tipped employee.  I loved working at the tipped job that I had when I first got out of the Marine Corps.  I made a boat load of money there!

[IronRobi]

 

7 hours ago, MoCruiseFan said:

I loved working at the tipped job that I had when I first got out of the Marine Corps.  I made a boat load of money there!

Would you still love it if your employer withheld a portion of your tips to "pay for" your base salary? Because that is what NCL does. You can continue to say "tips aren't base salary" all you want, what you should be saying is "tips should not be covering the base salary". 

[DaCruiseBug]

51 minutes ago, IronRobi said:

 

Would you still love it if your employer withheld a portion of your tips to "pay for" your base salary? Because that is what NCL does. You can continue to say "tips aren't base salary" all you want, what you should be saying is "tips should not be covering the base salary". 

People that say a salary is an incentive program have absolutely no clue what they're talking about.

 

Imagine working at a restaurant as a server that gets paid $10 per hour. A 20% gratuity is automatically added to each check but that gratuity doesn't go to workers as "tips". They go to pay for their $10 per hour salary, their vacation days, and pizza parties.

 

All sounds normal right?

 

If anything, this debate has shown a need for transparency by the cruise lines. Customers should know WHERE the services charges go. What port taxes and fees are being paid and how much for each.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, IronRobi said:

 

Would you still love it if your employer withheld a portion of your tips to "pay for" your base salary? Because that is what NCL does. You can continue to say "tips aren't base salary" all you want, what you should be saying is "tips should not be covering the base salary". 

And, this is what each and every crew member voluntarily agree to in their employment contract.  The fact that a large portion of their salary is made up from DSC, and that this is variable, is clearly spelled out in the contract.

[PTC DAWG]

16 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, this is what each and every crew member voluntarily agree to in their employment contract.  The fact that a large portion of their salary is made up from DSC, and that this is variable, is clearly spelled out in the contract.

Don’t confuse these folks with real world facts. 

[graphicguy]

I see these types of threads and wonder if some are looking for ways to lower their fares.  If you really want to do that, don’t buy the drinks or the packages.  Don’t buy the Specialty Dining packages.  Don’t go to the casino.  Don’t go on the excursions.  There’s dozens of ways one can bring down their cost of their cruise that are way more effective and way more meaningful financially, than to succumb to the incessant whining about each little nickel they can’t explain.

 

It’s like the people who take the cheap/free airfare and then whine that the flights aren’t to their liking.  There’s one way for certain to fix that….book your own flights.

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, DaCruiseBug said:

If anything, this debate has shown a need for transparency by the cruise lines. Customers should know WHERE the services charges go. What port taxes and fees are being paid and how much for each.

Why?  What does it matter to anyone but yourself?

[DaCruiseBug]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, this is what each and every crew member voluntarily agree to in their employment contract.  The fact that a large portion of their salary is made up from DSC, and that this is variable, is clearly spelled out in the contract.

 

Voluntarily? Yes and No.

 

Did anyone force them to sign on the dotted line? Not physically no...

 

But realistically a vast majority of the workers on cruise ships come from 3rd world countries and do the job they do because of need and desperation. Their economic conditions at home are probably worse than anything we see in America. So signing that contract lifts them up from hunger and despair to actually being able to eat and feed their families.

 

So again...were they physically forced to do it? No. But it sure wasn't what we would consider voluntary. Offer those same working conditions and pay/benefits to any American, Canadian, British etc...and you wouldn't have very many takers.

[DaCruiseBug]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

Why?  What does it matter to anyone but yourself?

 

Because if you're going to market or deceive a customer into thinking a daily service charge is a tip and port taxes/fees are mandatory expenses that are paid to local ports then you should have to prove it. the same reason if you miss one of those ports you should get a refund.

 

The airlines do it. Why can't cruise lines? Are they not exempt from enough US regulations as it is? They already skirt paying many taxes and hiring US employees by registering their ships in other countries. Why give them even more?

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

Are they not exempt from enough US regulations as it is? They already skirt paying many taxes and hiring US employees by registering their ships in other countries. Why give them even more?

We are not "giving" them anything.  Once a foreign nation is involved, you start to fall outside US legal jurisdiction.  Unless you want to stop any foreign cruise ship from homeporting in the US, you are going to have to deal with international law, and give up many of your US protections at the gangway.

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

Offer those same working conditions and pay/benefits to any American, Canadian, British etc...and you wouldn't have very many takers.

And, so everyone, everywhere in the world should be offered US wages and working conditions?  How much do you want your cruise fare to increase by?  The crew know before they leave their home country what the contract terms are, and can choose not to take a job that pays very well, but has some variability in it (depending on the attitude of passengers), or one that doesn't pay as well, doesn't have the hardships of shipboard life, and provides a constant, but lesser salary.

 

And, you know what?  There are not a lot of takers for cruise ship jobs even when US wages and working conditions are offered.   Look at the staffing issues that NCL has had for nearly 20 years with their Hawaii operations.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, DaCruiseBug said:

So again...were they physically forced to do it? No. But it sure wasn't what we would consider voluntary. Offer those same working conditions and pay/benefits to any American, Canadian, British etc...and you wouldn't have very many takers.

You mean like the bartender I met on RCCI who had worked three contracts and would do another for a total of five?  He said he would have made enough, saved enough, to build his dream home back in his homeland.

What difference does it make that cruise lines don't pay American wages?  There is no shortage of willing applicants.  

If you want to cruise only on ships offering American wages then NCL offers that opportunity on their Hawaiian ships.

[IronRobi]

23 hours ago, DaCruiseBug said:

Imagine working at a restaurant as a server that gets paid $10 per hour. A 20% gratuity is automatically added to each check but that gratuity doesn't go to workers as "tips". They go to pay for their $10 per hour salary, their vacation days, and pizza parties.

100% this!! I honestly can't believe there are people on here that not only defend this practice, but actively try to shame people who disagree with it.

[Lionkingrichard]

On 12/8/2022 at 7:39 PM, ChiefMateJRK said:

Isn't that something like seven NCL drinks?

Double Whistle Pig was $84 with tip! Think big and have 3-4 per day!

[bortman23]

2 hours ago, IronRobi said:

On 12/9/2022 at 9:08 AM, DaCruiseBug said:

Imagine working at a restaurant as a server that gets paid $10 per hour. A 20% gratuity is automatically added to each check but that gratuity doesn't go to workers as "tips". They go to pay for their $10 per hour salary, their vacation days, and pizza parties.

100% this

 

But that's not exactly what's happening (if we're to believe some people on here).

 

It's more like saying a server makes $5/hr and the companies incentive program adds an extra $5/hr + 20% tips if the employee hits certain services metrics (positive feedback etc).

 

I agree that a better system would be for NCL to clearly lay out how much is going to whom with the DSC. ie "your DSC is split between your room steward 20%, server 20%, host 15%, laundry attendant 15%, bonus program pool 30%" but that's very unlikely.

 

If I've learned anything from this thread (and it's very little) it's that when customers receive good service on a cruise they should at the very least communicate that to management (via comment card or otherwise), in addition to any extra tips they feel appropriate.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by bortman23

[MoCruiseFan]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:13 AM, IronRobi said:

 

Would you still love it if your employer withheld a portion of your tips to "pay for" your base salary? Because that is what NCL does. You can continue to say "tips aren't base salary" all you want, what you should be saying is "tips should not be covering the base salary". 

 

Please provide us with anything that supports your OPINION that NCL does this.  I have yet to see it.  Then again, never mind, the whole discussion is going in circles of people stating opinions and passing them off as fact.  I could not care less how "NCL distributes the DSC".  I am much more than happy with the total cost of my cruise and other than that, I am not wasting my time worrying about insignificant matters that are none of my business in the first place.  Enjoy your continued discussion.

[DaCruiseBug]

30 minutes ago, MoCruiseFan said:

 

Please provide us with anything that supports your OPINION that NCL does this.  I have yet to see it.  Then again, never mind, the whole discussion is going in circles of people stating opinions and passing them off as fact.  I could not care less how "NCL distributes the DSC".  I am much more than happy with the total cost of my cruise and other than that, I am not wasting my time worrying about insignificant matters that are none of my business in the first place.  Enjoy your continued discussion.

 

It literally states that on the NCL website.