Turn Down to be reduced to once a day 2023!

[zzdoug]

12 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

I don't necessarily disagree with any of that.  I was merely pointing out that fixed rate debt in a period of unexpectedly high inflation can help, not hurt the overall equation.

That is true, provided the fixed loan has already closed, which according to the document I linked to accounts for 75% of existing debt.  The note at the bottom says that the $14 billion "excludes future newbuild borrowings, finance leases and debt issuance costs". Most of the mortgages on the newer ships appear to have a floating component presumably tied to the LIBOR market rate (e.g. "2.98% / L+1.50%/ L+1.50%"), the exception being the Prima.  The debt shown for the Viva and "Leonardo 1 and 2" appear to be initial deposits or progress payments.  I think Prima-class ships cost north of $1 billion each, and the debt shown for those ships are $259 million and $37 million respectively.

[eroller]

2 minutes ago, Cruising Lynne said:

Reduce Del Rio's salary and bonuses. This could help a little!

 

 

He is the highest paid cruise line executive, and just promoted his son to the head of Oceania (while letting go the previous heads of Oceania & Regent). 

[CruisinMaterial]

1 minute ago, eroller said:

 

 

And doing things like letting go the heads of Regent and Oceania and replacing one with your son.  Nepotisum is alive and well at NCLH.  I think 1/4 of the shoreside staff is somehow related to FDR. 

I do believe you're right. No better way to sink a ship. Here everyone thought Colin Veitch was doing a number on the brand. Yeah he went a little nuts with the number of ships in Hawai'i but he had a vision. This guy (FDR) is only out for money for himself (paid way too much) and the investors.

[eroller]

1 minute ago, CruisinMaterial said:

I do believe you're right. No better way to sink a ship. Here everyone thought Colin Veitch was doing a number on the brand. Yeah he went a little nuts with the number of ships in Hawai'i but he had a vision. This guy (FDR) is only out for money for himself (paid way too much) and the investors.

 

Agree 100%.  FDR is already setting the stage for his retirement but ensuring his family legacy continues at NCLH.  Provided he doesn’t sink the ship beforehand.  Keep the $$ in the family!   

[njhorseman]

28 minutes ago, CruisinMaterial said:

You raise an excellent point. Instead of starting a new class of ship (which is getting mixed reviews), they should've waited and paid down some of the debt. As a result, with COVID and how FDR is running NCLH, I suspect it'll go the way of Renaissance Cruises from which he came. Circle of Life is a thing... even in the industry. Same scenario... new class of ships lead to its demise because they weren't financially healthy before going into a major world event (then it was 9/11... now COVID). The pain will only continue for those who continue to sail on NCL

Not the same scenario at all as Renaissance. 

 

First, FDR was a fired by Renaissance months before the 9/11 terrorist attacks . 9/11 merely hastened the demise of a company already doomed to failure.

 

Second, Renaissance was drowning in red ink long before 9/11, while NCLH had been profitable for years prior to COVID .

Edited December 30, 2022 by njhorseman

[BermudaBound2014]

26 minutes ago, Cruising Lynne said:

Reduce Del Rio's salary and bonuses. This could help a little!

 

Last year,  83% of NCL shareholders voted NOT to give Del Rio a raise. He took a 36.4 Million dollar raise anyway.

 

Side note: Arnold Donald (CCL)  Richard Fain (RCL) both took significant pay cuts  while Del Rio gave himself a raise in spit of the overwhelming (non-binding) vote against it. Del Rio is, by a longshot, the highest paid of the bunch.

 

And as eroller stated, he just made his son the President of Oceana. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[wcook]

23 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Called shrinkflation. It is everywhere around you, if you have not noticed.

/checks waist/ 

Nope, not everywhere. 

[zzdoug]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

 I thought it interesting that last quarter NCL debt rose more than its competition. 

 

 

This may have to do with the timing of the new ship deliveries and when the change is in reference to.  (Since Aug 2022? or June 2022? or Sept 2021?)   The $661M change could be the $1.1B debt associated with final payment for Prima which may have closed in July 2022, minus some expiration of older debt.  Carnival and Royal have both added huge loads of debt since 2019 and have received new huge expensive ships this year, but the timing of that chart may not show it.

Edited December 30, 2022 by zzdoug

[DaCruiseBug]

52 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Last year,  83% of NCL shareholders voted NOT to give Del Rio a raise. He took a 36.4 Million dollar raise anyway.

 

Side note: Arnold Donald (CCL)  Richard Fain (RCL) both took significant pay cuts  while Del Rio gave himself a raise in spit of the overwhelming (non-binding) vote against it. Del Rio is, by a longshot, the highest paid of the bunch.

 

And as eroller stated, he just made his son the President of Oceana. 

 

Frank Del Rio reminds me of Frank Lorenzo...they even have the same first name.

[RD64]

So now that cabin service will be (allegedly) limited to once a day - this should start an entirely new thread of people complaining about the lack of / elimination of towel animals.

[BugsyCruiser]

As long as people continue to book cruises in spite of announcements like this there's no incentive for any cruise line to change course. 

 

NCL lost me with this but I'm sure I'm in the minority. So be it. 

[BugsyCruiser]

As long as people continue to book cruises in spite of announcements like this there's no incentive for any cruise line to change course. 

 

NCL lost me with this but I'm sure I'm in the minority. So be it. 

[Yesimapirate]

9 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

In fairness, all cruise lines are in the same boat. It will be up to consumers to decide which cruise line best meets their needs based on the 'new normal'. Continued reductions to service and increase in prices are inevitable across the industry.

 

Actually, I'm paying more at nearly every single store I visit also, especially grocery. There is a price to pay for decisions which have been made.

 

 

I disagree.   While many (not all) are cutting expenses, it doesn't mean it's right way to go.  Especially with a looming recession.  Additionally,  in my non-sceintific opinion,  a decrease in personal travel since people got the "I'm sick of being stuck inside because of Covid-19 and need to travel" vacation.   People went all out with their travel the last 18 months.   Like all bubbles, it will burst and over correct. 

 

This is so similar to the post 9/11 airline issues.  Most used it as an excuse to cut service.   Every single one of those that did so were either taken over or went bankrupt.   The small handful like JetBlue that focused on expanding and gaining revenue through growth were the ones that were successful.   Cutting costs never leads to healthy increases in revenue and growth. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Yesimapirate

[yoboy08753]

Wonder if it will be Morning make up service or night time turn down service that is being eliminated? Or will each guest have their choice?

[luv2kroooz]

They'll probably charge $1 per person per day plus a 20% service charge if you want to select AM and PM. Otherwise, they'll just pick it for you based on staff availability.

 

They may eventually offer a premium plus turndown service for $2 per person per day plus a 20% service charge if you want AM and PM service.

 

But read the fine print, which will state that turndown service is not guaranteed and they have the right to change, alter, or remove the program at any time without notice or reimbursement.

[Illbcruzn4life]

On 12/28/2022 at 5:35 PM, njkate said:

Between higher fares, higher DSC and a reduction in services we shall see if people stop booking. Throw into that mix the sky high air fare if one has to fly. The days of cruising as a vacation that didn’t break the bank is coming to an end.
 

You forgot the govt. taxes and fee which are so much higher on NCL  than they  are for the other cruise lines 

[BermudaBound2014]

10 hours ago, Yesimapirate said:

I disagree.   While many (not all) are cutting expenses, it doesn't mean it's right way to go.  Especially with a looming recession.  Additionally,  in my non-sceintific opinion,  a decrease in personal travel since people got the "I'm sick of being stuck inside because of Covid-19 and need to travel" vacation.   People went all out with their travel the last 18 months.   Like all bubbles, it will burst and over correct. 

 

This is so similar to the post 9/11 airline issues.  Most used it as an excuse to cut service.   Every single one of those that did so were either taken over or went bankrupt.   The small handful like JetBlue that focused on expanding and gaining revenue through growth were the ones that were successful.   Cutting costs never leads to healthy increases in revenue and growth. 

 

10 hours ago, Yesimapirate said:

I disagree.   While many (not all) are cutting expenses……. People went all out with their travel the last 18 months. 

If you are speaking about cruise travel when you state “people went all out with travel in the last 18 months” , you are incorrect. People have not returned to cruising anything close to pre pandemic levels. Q122 and Q222 saw levels near 60%. Q3 reached 80%. Ncl has stated they don’t expect 100% until the second half of 2023. There are a few sailings at 100% but the average across the industry is actually much lower than initially predicted. 
 

Please enlighten us- which cruise line is not cutting expenses??

 

The differences between the current financial position of the main stream lines and the airlines after 911 are tremendous. Cruises were shuttered for 18 months and  received no government bail outs. As mentioned, people are still hesitant to return to cruising. The debt has grown each and every month since the restart.

 

i do agree that cost cutting is a difficult decision in terms of future growth, but their hands are tied sondw both debt and interest rates continue to climb. 
 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[HuliHuli]

On 12/28/2022 at 4:45 PM, ulster-cruiser said:

"According to NCL the reduction in daily housekeeping service will have a positive impact on the company’s “commitment to environmental sustainability”, and aligns with current “standard practices in the cruise and hotel industries by conservation of water, energy and reducing the use of chemicals.”  “Over the last two-plus years., the collective hospitality industry has evolved tremendously."

Can you spell WOKE?

Work less, but still expect to receive more, e.g., higher DSC.

Overtly virtue signal that you are protecting the environment.  What’s next – sharing pool towels?

Keep up with the Joneses, i.e., RCCL since they did it first.

Equity for all, well except for the Cultural Elite who are willing to pay more.

[Illbcruzn4life]

10 minutes ago, HuliHuli said:

Can you spell WOKE?

Work less, but still expect to receive more, e.g., higher DSC.

 

Overtly virtue signal that you are protecting the environment.  What’s next – sharing pool towels?

 

Keep up with the Joneses, i.e., RCCL since they did it first.

 

Equity for all, well except for the Cultural Elite who are willing to pay more.

 

Except RCCL didn't do it first. That would be CCL.

[Liljo22]

13 hours ago, BugsyCruiser said:

As long as people continue to book cruises in spite of announcements like this there's no incentive for any cruise line to change course. 

 

NCL lost me with this but I'm sure I'm in the minority. So be it. 

I hear you but this is the hospitality world we live in now.  I have stayed at several 4/5 star hotels that charge ridiculous resort fees that don't have daily housekeeping anymore.   

 

CCL is already once a day and RCI and NCL are going that way.  Would not be surprised to see most other non luxury lines follow suit.  Pretty soon you will run out of cruise lines to book if this is your line in the sand.  

Edited December 30, 2022 by Liljo22

[misstamster]

On 12/29/2022 at 8:02 AM, luv2kroooz said:

Educate yourselves! There are so many great vacations out there right now outside of the cruise space. I am typing this from a land based resort where we just spent three nights. Live entertainment every night including comedy, dealing pianos, singers. Christmas decorations everywhere. Indoor pool and hot tubs. No surcharges, surcharges, etc. It is wonderful and compares very favorably from a pricing perspective.

 

We have enjoyed cruising in the past. I can't see us booking a cruise on any cruise ship in the near term. Someone else will have to subsidize their COVID losses. It ain't going to be us.

feel like I am losing the love I had for cruising. We usually do both cruises and all inclusive in the winter months to beat the cold. Our 30 day stay in an all inclusive in Puerto Vallarta for March costs the same as our 12 day cruise for Feb. with NCL, plus they fly you there. we have been disappointed in the service, food, and entertainment this past November cruise that I am hoping our Feb. NCL helps change my thoughts!

[R&G1996]

Never wanted night service anyway. However, DSC increase is going through the roof.

[SeaShark]

8 minutes ago, R&G1996 said:

Never wanted night service anyway. However, DSC increase is going through the roof.

 

"through the roof" is an interesting description. Can you provide some context to that? What % is reasonable and not "through the roof"?

 

Just for giggles, I looked at the Norwegian Escape (not too new, not too old) for December 2nd of next year. Balcony fare is listed at $889 pp...just the fare, nothing else. The new DSC will be $20 pp/pd which means $140 for the week. Against that fare, a guest in that cabin is tipping at 15.75%...much lower than the standard 20%.  Under the current DSC of $16 pp/pd, the rate would be just 12.6%. Given the current economy, I don't know that a 3% increase is all that huge. Just wondering how low this "roof" actually is.

[BugsyCruiser]

1 hour ago, Liljo22 said:

I hear you but this is the hospitality world we live in now.  I have stayed at several 4/5 star hotels that charge ridiculous resort fees that don't have daily housekeeping anymore.   

 

CCL is already once a day and RCI and NCL are going that way.  Would not be surprised to see most other non luxury lines follow suit.  Pretty soon you will run out of cruise lines to book if this is your line in the sand.  

Let me clarify what I meant with my post. It's the fact that NCL is raising the gratuities but in the article it says they're reducing the salaries of the attendants. The once a day housekeeping doesn't bother me at all. 

 

I know cruise lines all do nickel and diming to a certain extent but, again just my opinion, NCL is ridiculous with it. 

[AwesomO]

almost every other tip we pay out in the world is not per person, but per table/room/ride, etc. DSC is per person. Unless you are traveling solo, you have to double it at least (I know fare is doubled for solo unless you get a rare solo room. but not sure about DSC). We're paying over $600 in DSC for 4 of us on a 10 day cruise, and that's under the rates when we booked before even the previous price increase. Plus the dining gratuities and drink gratuities (another $800 for a 10 day sailing for 2). I know we can choose not to include any of those, but we wanted to go for it as this is our BIG vacation and we wanted to go the extra mile so obviously I decided it was worth it on some level. But it just seems we are constantly being nickle and dimed, while services are lessened, ports are changed after final payment, crazy excursion prices ($50 minimum just for a beach day??x a family of 4). I guess a cruise can still be a great vacation for a couple, but for a family, it's just increasingly out of reach and I don't see us cruising again any time soon after our February trip.