A gratuitous increase is coming.

[jazznruby]

56 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

56 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

What happens when one receives both OCAPP and PPG as a benefit of their Oceania Club status? Ah! That is a different story.

What happens is called 'double dipping'...a source of some frustration for those of us who aren't at the free PPG level yet, (and who may never be.) Yes, I understand and accept that loyalty should be rewarded in some way, but if a TA doesn't belong to a particular consortium, OCAPP is not always available. On a longer cruise in a higher cabin category, while I do not begrudge any staff member from receiving a fair and equitable gratuity, that can add a significant amount to the bottom line. Seems to me if O is looking to do some cost cutting and since both perks are in effect coming from them, that maybe they should/will? consider eliminating one or the other.

 

[pinotlover]

16 minutes ago, jazznruby said:

 

It’s the primary reason some troll and bid every cruise. Different consortiums get PPG on different cruise. Therefore, they shop for OCAPP. They aren’t shopping TA, they are shopping Consortiums. If Oceania were to eliminate “ double dipping “ ( or OBC in lieu of), they would eliminate the need to shop the TA each cruise.

[Vertygo]

Just wondering if the title of this thread is deliberate or just a word check mishap. Hopefully the former-Is the gratuity increase gratuitous?

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, jazznruby said:

 

If you get PPG as a club benefit  & get 2nd  PPG  the amount you get in OBC is $250  ( I think per cabin) someone will correct me

[shepherd really]

6 minutes ago, Vertygo said:

Just wondering if the title of this thread is deliberate or just a word check mishap. Hopefully the former-Is the gratuity increase gratuitous?

Accidents require careful planning.😉

[ORV]

On 12/31/2022 at 2:59 PM, Robjame said:

Orv sometimes those other sites are country - based - Aussie or UK and the prices are different.

‘No such current Currents showing this on Riviera…so far

I guess that changed. 

[the more ports the better]

Our philosophy is that tips are a targeted form of donation where we choose who gets the funds which we decide to donate as opposed to an institution doing the deciding for us.  In addition our funds do not go to layers of charity administrators who sometimes draw ridiculous salaries or political causes where funds go into the unaccounted for abyss.

 

The staff on O are typically supporting their families and many times extended families while being separated from spouses and children for long periods of time.  They work hard and we like rewarding hard work so we are the stereotypical American overtippers.

 

One year we sailed the week before the Christmas sailing.  Our stateroom attendant was away from her kids at Christmas and it was clear that she was a little down as a result.  She said she wished that she would have brought some Christmas decorations.  We brought decorations back from port for her as it was obviously an expense she could not afford.  It really seemed to lift her spirits and make the holidays a bit more bearable.

 

We tip cabin stewards and butlers at the beginning of the cruise with the caveat that we know they are doing their best.  No worry that they will not receive a tip at the end of the sailing if they have a bad day or week.  We tip bartenders, waiters, drivers and guides….. at the time of service pretty much always.

 

I’m sure many here donate time and money to various charities which is great and I can see where increases in gratuities could be frustrating but any increase in gratuities is ok with us.

[Robjame]

11 hours ago, the more ports the better said:

Our philosophy is that tips are a targeted form of donation where we choose who gets the funds which we decide to donate as opposed to an institution doing the deciding for us.  In addition our funds do not go to layers of charity administrators who sometimes draw ridiculous salaries or political causes where funds go into the unaccounted for abyss.

 

The staff on O are typically supporting their families and many times extended families while being separated from spouses and children for long periods of time.  They work hard and we like rewarding hard work so we are the stereotypical American overtippers.

 

One year we sailed the week before the Christmas sailing.  Our stateroom attendant was away from her kids at Christmas and it was clear that she was a little down as a result.  She said she wished that she would have brought some Christmas decorations.  We brought decorations back from port for her as it was obviously an expense she could not afford.  It really seemed to lift her spirits and make the holidays a bit more bearable.

 

We tip cabin stewards and butlers at the beginning of the cruise with the caveat that we know they are doing their best.  No worry that they will not receive a tip at the end of the sailing if they have a bad day or week.  We tip bartenders, waiters, drivers and guides….. at the time of service pretty much always.

 

I’m sure many here donate time and money to various charities which is great and I can see where increases in gratuities could be frustrating but any increase in gratuities is ok with us.

Pretty much as you say. I guess not really knowing how the $ are distributed, whether o withdraws an administrative fee, who actually pays for prepaid gratuities associated with Oceania Cub levels, all make the process suspect. Last night a Casino Bar, the bar tender placed a tip in a tip box much as you see a restaurants back home. Is this new?

We prefer to reward individually though to now we do participate in the  suggested group gratuity. 

[LHT28]

5 minutes ago, Robjame said:

Pretty much as you say. I guess not really knowing how the $ are distributed, whether o withdraws an administrative fee, who actually pays for prepaid gratuities associated with Oceania Cub levels, all make the process suspect. Last night a Casino Bar, the bar tender placed a tip in a tip box much as you see a restaurants back home. Is this new?

We prefer to reward individually though to now we do participate in the  suggested group gratuity. 

Maybe they share extra tips  like in restaurants & bars on land or maybe his own personal box ???

 

IMO  where the tips go when I pay then or they are from the O benefits  is not my concern

 

Do people actually ask servers that get tips  if they get the whole amount or share ?

I do not think I would be very pleasant if people asked me where my $$ come from  would you??

 

I know some places if you put the tip on your CC the management will deduct their CC fee from the tip for the  waitstaff

I try to tip in cash  when we eat out

YMMV

 

[pinotlover]

19 minutes ago, Robjame said:

Pretty much as you say. I guess not really knowing how the $ are distributed, whether o withdraws an administrative fee, who actually pays for prepaid gratuities associated with Oceania Cub levels, all make the process suspect. Last night a Casino Bar, the bar tender placed a tip in a tip box much as you see a restaurants back home. Is this new?

We prefer to reward individually though to now we do participate in the  suggested group gratuity. 

The workers in the Casino, shops, and Spa are not Oceania contract employees. They work for the individual concessions. Don’t confuse what those workers do, with what O workers do.

[Robjame]

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

Do people actually ask servers that get tips  if they get the whole amount or share ?

I

Unless it were to try to get more money in the hands of those for whom it was intended…. But I do get your point.

[Robjame]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

The workers in the Casino, shops, and Spa are not Oceania contract employees. They work for the individual concessions. Don’t confuse what those workers do, with what O workers do.

Definitely a bar tender in this case.

 

One thing I would love clarified is - if I am in the club level to get free gratuities, does O actually pony up the money? If you are in a PH that could be a considerable amount of money.

No conspiracy theory just curious.

[LHT28]

33 minutes ago, Robjame said:

Definitely a bar tender in this case.

 

One thing I would love clarified is - if I am in the club level to get free gratuities, does O actually pony up the money? If you are in a PH that could be a considerable amount of money.

No conspiracy theory just curious.

go ask the Purser  how it works

 

[LGW59]

12 hours ago, the more ports the better said:

Our philosophy is that tips are a targeted form of donation where we choose who gets the funds which we decide to donate as opposed to an institution doing the deciding for us.  In addition our funds do not go to layers of charity administrators who sometimes draw ridiculous salaries or political causes where funds go into the unaccounted for abyss.

 

The staff on O are typically supporting their families and many times extended families while being separated from spouses and children for long periods of time.  They work hard and we like rewarding hard work so we are the stereotypical American overtippers.

 

One year we sailed the week before the Christmas sailing.  Our stateroom attendant was away from her kids at Christmas and it was clear that she was a little down as a result.  She said she wished that she would have brought some Christmas decorations.  We brought decorations back from port for her as it was obviously an expense she could not afford.  It really seemed to lift her spirits and make the holidays a bit more bearable.

 

We tip cabin stewards and butlers at the beginning of the cruise with the caveat that we know they are doing their best.  No worry that they will not receive a tip at the end of the sailing if they have a bad day or week.  We tip bartenders, waiters, drivers and guides….. at the time of service pretty much always.

 

I’m sure many here donate time and money to various charities which is great and I can see where increases in gratuities could be frustrating but any increase in gratuities is ok with us.

I never begrudge or resent paying tips to the crew.  As for "any increase in gratuities" it is not OK with me because it simply means the cruise lines are forcing us to pay what should be better wages for the crew.  A double edge sword because I for one will not take that out on the crew, so therein is the dilemma, stiff the crew to get back at corporate, I just can't do that.  

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

Maybe they share extra tips  like in restaurants & bars on land or maybe his own personal box ???

 

IMO  where the tips go when I pay then or they are from the O benefits  is not my concern

 

Do people actually ask servers that get tips  if they get the whole amount or share ?

I do not think I would be very pleasant if people asked me where my $$ come from  would you??

 

I know some places if you put the tip on your CC the management will deduct their CC fee from the tip for the  waitstaff

I try to tip in cash  when we eat out

YMMV

 

I can’t speak for either Canada or Great Britain, but here in the States a significant portion of the patrons know whether the venue pools tips or not. Typically the information comes via reputation or from people they know working there.

 

A couple current era observations. First, there are some wait staff that will only work where tips are pooled. Likewise, there are those that refuse to work in such establishments and demand what they earn. 
 

Second, in the current era, labor is extremely scarce. Some establishments have closed or are still on reduced schedules because of lack of labor. If a waiter quits at lunch, they can be employed elsewhere by dinner. That means that, unlike last decade, it’s very difficult for management to drag their hand in the tip “ till” much at all. If they do, management will find themselves being the waiters themselves. Supply and demand of labor has altered practices.

[shepherd really]

2 hours ago, Robjame said:

Definitely a bar tender in this case.

 

One thing I would love clarified is - if I am in the club level to get free gratuities, does O actually pony up the money? If you are in a PH that could be a considerable amount of money.

No conspiracy theory just curious.

My TA is a former O food and beverage manager, and he told me he disbursed his employees' pay checks and assured me all of the pre paid gratuities were given to employees.  

[LHT28]

3 hours ago, LGW59 said:

I never begrudge or resent paying tips to the crew.  As for "any increase in gratuities" it is not OK with me because it simply means the cruise lines are forcing us to pay what should be better wages for the crew.  A double edge sword because I for one will not take that out on the crew, so therein is the dilemma, stiff the crew to get back at corporate, I just can't do that.  

there are options

you can always lower the  auto tip (unless you get it as a perk from O)

You can always go back to the envelope method & tip who/what you want on the last day  (crew still have to turn in envelopes)

remove the gratuity altogether

sail on lines where no gratuity is required

JMO

[LHT28]

3 hours ago, pinotlover said:

I can’t speak for either Canada or Great Britain, but here in the States a significant portion of the patrons know whether the venue pools tips or not. Typically the information comes via reputation or from people they know working there.

 

A couple current era observations. First, there are some wait staff that will only work where tips are pooled. Likewise, there are those that refuse to work in such establishments and demand what they earn. 
 

Second, in the current era, labor is extremely scarce. Some establishments have closed or are still on reduced schedules because of lack of labor. If a waiter quits at lunch, they can be employed elsewhere by dinner. That means that, unlike last decade, it’s very difficult for management to drag their hand in the tip “ till” much at all. If they do, management will find themselves being the waiters themselves. Supply and demand of labor has altered practices.

I am sure it works the same here

 except with everyone using the tap N go  for their payment   many do not tip in cash  anymore

I try to have some cash  but today I did not have small bills so my hairdresser  got the tip added to my VISA   whether her emplyer gives her the full amount or takes off the  CC fee  I do not know

I am not going to ask either

 

[ORV]

3 hours ago, shepherd really said:

My TA is a former O food and beverage manager, and he told me he disbursed his employees' pay checks and assured me all of the pre paid gratuities were given to employees.  

Interesting, somewhere I've seen the breakdown as to who gets what. I never noticed a cut for management like some seem to think there is. 

[njhorseman]

4 hours ago, LGW59 said:

I never begrudge or resent paying tips to the crew.  As for "any increase in gratuities" it is not OK with me because it simply means the cruise lines are forcing us to pay what should be better wages for the crew.  A double edge sword because I for one will not take that out on the crew, so therein is the dilemma, stiff the crew to get back at corporate, I just can't do that.  

You, as the final consumer of the product or service always pay for everything regardless of whether it's invisibly buried in the bottom line cost or an added item such as a gratuity. 

 

Don't  you not understand that if there were no tipping on a cruise ship you would be paying a higher base fare ?

 

Businesses don't pay their employee's wages out of their profits. You, the  consumer,  pay the wages whether those wages are from salary or gratuities or a combination of them.

Edited January 5, 2023 by njhorseman

[LHT28]

Anyone  go to the grocery store lately or to a restaurant?

We cannot not be the only  ones who have seen the groceries  have shot up in price  ??

 

[LGW59]

7 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

You, as the final consumer of the product or service always pay for everything regardless of whether it's invisibly buried in the bottom line cost or an added item such as a gratuity. 

 

Don't  you not understand that if there were no tipping on a cruise ship you would be paying a higher base fare ?

 

Businesses don't pay their employee's wages out of their profits. You, the  consumer,  pay the wages whether those wages are from salary or gratuities or a combination of them.

Don't  you not understand that if there were no tipping on a cruise ship you would be paying a higher base fare ?  Yeppers, I understand.  This is why I'd have NO problem if X increased their fares and included EVERYTHING for everyone.  I'd still be shopping around for the fare that best suits me though, and I love X but they are not the only ship on the ocean.

[1985rz1]

1 hour ago, ORV said:

I never noticed a cut for management like some seem to think there is. 

Yes, some people always look for a negative interpretation, based on what they believe, not on any facts.

[shepherd really]

33 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

You, as the final consumer of the product or service always pay for everything regardless of whether it's invisibly buried in the bottom line cost or an added item such as a gratuity. 

 

Don't  you not understand that if there were no tipping on a cruise ship you would be paying a higher base fare ?

 

Businesses don't pay their employee's wages out of their profits. You, the  consumer,  pay the wages whether those wages are from salary or gratuities or a combination of them.

Oh please, don't you understand that companies with bloated executive compensation are asking their customers to provide tips so they can keep those payroll expenses off the books, claim profitability (or lower losses) while rewarding their CEO's with absurd salaries and benefits unrelated to the value they actually bring to the company.   

[njhorseman]

4 hours ago, shepherd really said:

Oh please, don't you understand that companies with bloated executive compensation are asking their customers to provide tips so they can keep those payroll expenses off the books, claim profitability (or lower losses) while rewarding their CEO's with absurd salaries and benefits unrelated to the value they actually bring to the company.   

You don't understand what I was talking about. Yes, the CEO's salary is bloated and he's far too cozy with the board, but I would have said the same thing if FDR were paid $1 per year. His salary has nothing to do with what I said.

 

My point is that some people have the mistaken notion that if crew were paid straight salary that the money to pay that salary somehow would come out of the company's profits rather than the passenger's pockets. That is utter nonsense. You, the ultimate consumer of any product or service pay for everything. The company pays for nothing. Crew compensation is paid by the passenger whether it is straight salary, straight gratuities, or a combination of salary and gratuities. If gratuities were eliminated today fares would be raised today to pay for the former gratuities that are now paid as salary. It's coming out of your pocket one way or the other. The money doesn't come out of company profits.