Tipping while ordering on the app??

[SantaFeFan]

On 1/4/2023 at 3:48 AM, wowzz said:

That is just incorrect. The vast majority of the customer facing crew do not get tipped. Those waiters working in the buffet for example. The average waiter will never earn enough money from a few tips here and there to provide him with a living wage.

Plus if course,  if what you say is true,  when a ship has a large percentage of European passengers on board,  during the summer season in the Med for example, the crew, according to your theory, would be working for nothing,  given European attitudes to tipping.

P&O UK and Aus have done away with autotips, and removed the tipping culture prevalent on other lines, so all this flag of convenience nonsense is irrelevant.

 

 

I hate to burst your fantasy bubble, but you are so wrong on so many things with that statement. 

 

You said "The vast majority of the customer facing crew do not get tipped. Those waiters working in the buffet for example."

 

Wrong! Those waiters working in the buffet can be seen later working the MDR, and vice-a-versa. Tomorrow they may be working the poolside grill, or the International Cafe. They are all from the same staffing pool and will work a variety of venues, all with a percentage of the gratuities. Same with room attendants, who share their gratuities with the support staff that makes their jobs easier, such as the laundry workers. Room attendants can be seen cleaning up public areas when they are not cleaning staterooms. 

 

The crew all work for a base salary. It isn't a high salary, but it is a guaranteed salary. They also get room and board as part of their salary package. This amount is not enough to live on, however - by OUR standards.

 

Note that not all of the crew are included in the base salary/gratuities programs. Typically only those working in the "hotel" side of the ship are included in this program. Officers, entertainers, accredited mechanics, and other higher level staff sign a contract at a full salary with no part of the gratuity programs, much like on a typical land based company. 

 

The gratuities that responsible passenger pay supplement that base salary for hotel staff, increasing the final income to acceptable levels. Without the gratuities, the crew will at least get the base salary, so they are not, as you claim, "working for nothing". 

 

Most cruise lines that are based in Europe, such as P&O and MSC (for European cruises only), roll the gratuities into the base fare for exactly the reason you mentioned - Europeans don't tip well, and the staff gets stiffed. Many US based cruise lines do the same when home porting in Europe, again because too many Europeans refuse to tip and the hotel staff suffers.

 

In May 2019 P&O did away with gratuities (SOURCE: https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/PO-Cruises-to-end-gratuities-in-2019) because too many of the locals removed them, so people did not want to work on their ships because of the lost wages they suffered. To attract employees, P&O had to switch or they would not be able to find enough people to run their ships. It's simple economics. 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by SantaFeFan

[sloopsailor]

21 minutes ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

I hate to burst your fantasy bubble, but you are so wrong on so many things with that statement. 

 

You said "The vast majority of the customer facing crew do not get tipped. Those waiters working in the buffet for example."

 

Wrong! Those waiters working in the buffet can be seen later working the MDR, and vice-a-versa. Tomorrow they may be working the poolside grill, or the International Cafe. They are all from the same staffing pool and will work a variety of venues, all with a percentage of the gratuities. Same with room attendants, who share their gratuities with the support staff that makes their jobs easier, such as the laundry workers. Room attendants can be seen cleaning up public areas when they are not cleaning staterooms. 

 

The crew all work for a base salary. It isn't a high salary, but it is a guaranteed salary. They also get room and board as part of their salary package. This amount is not enough to live on, however - by OUR standards.

 

Note that not all of the crew are included in the base salary/gratuities programs. Typically only those working in the "hotel" side of the ship are included in this program. Officers, entertainers, accredited mechanics, and other higher level staff sign a contract at a full salary with no part of the gratuity programs, much like on a typical land based company. 

 

The gratuities that responsible passenger pay supplement that base salary for hotel staff, increasing the final income to acceptable levels. Without the gratuities, the crew will at least get the base salary, so they are not, as you claim, "working for nothing". 

 

Most cruise lines that are based in Europe, such as P&O and MSC (for European cruises only), roll the gratuities into the base fare for exactly the reason you mentioned - Europeans don't tip well, and the staff gets stiffed. Many US based cruise lines do the same when home porting in Europe, again because too many Europeans refuse to tip and the hotel staff suffers.

 

In May 2019 P&O did away with gratuities (SOURCE: https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/PO-Cruises-to-end-gratuities-in-2019) because too many of the locals removed them, so people did not want to work on their ships because of the lost wages they suffered. To attract employees, P&O had to switch or they would not be able to find enough people to run their ships. It's simple economics. 

 

 

It's amazing how facts actually matter in a discussion. 

[candy4040]

As far as room and board go - my last room steward said that they have four crew members in one cabin.  I didn't see it so I can only go with his statement.  

[sloopsailor]

18 minutes ago, candy4040 said:

As far as room and board go - my last room steward said that they have four crew members in one cabin.  I didn't see it so I can only go with his statement.  

 

I watch all of the shows on cruise ships I can find on History Channel, Science Channel, etc. - literally dozens over the years. Most of them show a "week in the life of" a specific ship. Those that did mention crew quarters have shown small two-person crew cabins, some with bunk type beds and some with side by side beds. Several YouTube videos posted by crew members also showed two person cabins in similar configurations. None shown were four person cabins. Not sure if that is the standard, but in those cases that is what was shown. Also, none had windows. 

[SantaFeFan]

6 minutes ago, sloopsailor said:

 

I watch all of the shows on cruise ships I can find on History Channel, Science Channel, etc. - literally dozens over the years. Most of them show a "week in the life of" a specific ship. Those that did mention crew quarters have shown small two-person crew cabins, some with bunk type beds and some with side by side beds. Several YouTube videos posted by crew members also showed two person cabins in similar configurations. None shown were four person cabins. Not sure if that is the standard, but in those cases that is what was shown. Also, none had windows. 

 

On our Alaska cruise on Grand Princess in 2017 I purchased the special "behind the scenes" tour. As well as visits to the bridge, galley, store rooms, laundry, engine control room, theater backstage, infirmary, and fore section with the anchor chains and winches, we also toured I-95, the central corridor that runs the length of the ship for crew to move around quickly. Off this corridor was the crew area. We visited the crew galley and lounge, and walked down the crew quarter aisles, where we were asked to move quietly so not to disturb sleeping crew.

 

While we never saw inside any of the crew cabins, we were told that two people shared these cabins. 

[basil's mom]

If you adjust the automatic tip downward the supervisor assumes the passenger was unhappy with the service and the crew members are called on the carpet.

[wowzz]

3 hours ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

I hate to burst your fantasy bubble, but you are so wrong on so many things with that statement. 

 

You said "The vast majority of the customer facing crew do not get tipped. Those waiters working in the buffet for example."

 

Wrong! Those waiters working in the buffet can be seen later working the MDR, and vice-a-versa. Tomorrow they may be working the poolside grill, or the International Cafe. They are all from the same staffing pool and will work a variety of venues, all with a percentage of the gratuities. Same with room attendants, who share their gratuities with the support staff that makes their jobs easier, such as the laundry workers. Room attendants can be seen cleaning up public areas when they are not cleaning staterooms. 

 

The crew all work for a base salary. It isn't a high salary, but it is a guaranteed salary. They also get room and board as part of their salary package. This amount is not enough to live on, however - by OUR standards.

 

Note that not all of the crew are included in the base salary/gratuities programs. Typically only those working in the "hotel" side of the ship are included in this program. Officers, entertainers, accredited mechanics, and other higher level staff sign a contract at a full salary with no part of the gratuity programs, much like on a typical land based company. 

 

The gratuities that responsible passenger pay supplement that base salary for hotel staff, increasing the final income to acceptable levels. Without the gratuities, the crew will at least get the base salary, so they are not, as you claim, "working for nothing". 

 

Most cruise lines that are based in Europe, such as P&O and MSC (for European cruises only), roll the gratuities into the base fare for exactly the reason you mentioned - Europeans don't tip well, and the staff gets stiffed. Many US based cruise lines do the same when home porting in Europe, again because too many Europeans refuse to tip and the hotel staff suffers.

 

In May 2019 P&O did away with gratuities (SOURCE: https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/PO-Cruises-to-end-gratuities-in-2019) because too many of the locals removed them, so people did not want to work on their ships because of the lost wages they suffered. To attract employees, P&O had to switch or they would not be able to find enough people to run their ships. It's simple economics. 

 

You miss my point. 

Various crew members, as you point out,  will get a share of the autotip pool. That obviously supplements their salary, and of course I would never remove the autotips. 

The point I was making is that supplementary tipping to individuals is not in itself a living wage.

You have totally musconstrued my argument. 

[cr8tiv1]

I've been told by a reliable source (not seen) that crew cabins have 2 person cabins.

 

Guest entertainers will sometimes be placed in the crew area and/or passenger area.  They will have a standard cabin with their own bathroom.  Some may have a porthole.  

 

2 hours ago, candy4040 said:

As far as room and board go - my last room steward said that they have four crew members in one cabin.  I didn't see it so I can only go with his statement.  

 

1 hour ago, sloopsailor said:

 

I watch all of the shows on cruise ships I can find on History Channel, Science Channel, etc. - literally dozens over the years. Most of them show a "week in the life of" a specific ship. Those that did mention crew quarters have shown small two-person crew cabins, some with bunk type beds and some with side by side beds. Several YouTube videos posted by crew members also showed two person cabins in similar configurations. None shown were four person cabins. Not sure if that is the standard, but in those cases that is what was shown. Also, none had windows. 

shared with a bathroom in the middle by another 2 member cabin.

[sloopsailor]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

You miss my point. 

Various crew members, as you point out,  will get a share of the autotip pool. That obviously supplements their salary, and of course I would never remove the autotips. 

The point I was making is that supplementary tipping to individuals is not in itself a living wage.

You have totally musconstrued my argument. 

 

I think SantaFeFan critiqued your argument perfectly. You were wrong in several areas that were pointed out. In tipping cultures, as on many of the cruise ships we all sail on, supplementary tipping is the BULK of the wages they receive. Coupled with the small base salary, for them it is a living wage. Most come from third world countries where the cost of living is lower than in your and my countries. So for them, they are making good money. Many are able to save up to start their own business after several years working on cruise ships. They wouldn't keep coming back if they weren't making an income that meets their needs. The sacrifices they make are enormous - long work days, little time off, months away from family and friends. I respect their work ethics and admire their dedication to reaching their goals. 

 

Thank you for not removing or reducing the gratuities. I commend you for that. It's refreshing to hear from a Brit that actually respects the customs on board many cruise ships. 👍

[wowzz]

22 minutes ago, sloopsailor said:

In tipping cultures, as on many of the cruise ships we all sail on, supplementary tipping is the BULK of the wages they receive.

I still find that hard to believe.

Whilst I see more tipping when cruising in the US than in Europe, the amounts given in the main do not appear to be sufficient to make up the bulk of the crew wages.

And, as I mentioned earlier, rightly or wrongly,  when cruising in Europe, the amount of additional tips (over and above the autotips) will fall considerably.  By your reckoning, on European cruises the staff will be working for nothing. 

[sloopsailor]

42 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I still find that hard to believe.

Whilst I see more tipping when cruising in the US than in Europe, the amounts given in the main do not appear to be sufficient to make up the bulk of the crew wages.

And, as I mentioned earlier, rightly or wrongly,  when cruising in Europe, the amount of additional tips (over and above the autotips) will fall considerably.  By your reckoning, on European cruises the staff will be working for nothing. 

 

As has been mentioned already, for cruises leaving from certain European countries, as well as Australia and New Zealand, the cruise lines have been forced to roll the gratuities into the base fare to counter the proclivity of your brothermen removing them. You have read all the comments on this thread, so YOU DO KNOW how this works since it has already been carefully explained. That you continue to ignore those explanations by STILL commenting that the staff must be working for nothing baffles me.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by sloopsailor

[cr8tiv1]

By rolling the crew appreciation into the base fare, the taxes and insurance will also be based on the higher fare.  I'd prefer to give the government less and pay for the gratuities outside of of quoted fare.  I do keep my "suggested".

[sloopsailor]

1 minute ago, cr8tiv1 said:

By rolling the crew appreciation into the base fare, the taxes and insurance will also be based on the higher fare.  I'd prefer to give the government less and pay for the gratuities outside of of quoted fare.  I do keep my "suggested".

 

And not only would the final fare be more than the base fare and gratuities combined, the crew in the tipping pools would also be penalized since many are from countries that only tax income from salary but do not tax income from gratuities. They would also end up paying more in taxes if salary and gratuities were combined leaving them with even less income. In the end, no one wins when gratuities are rolled into the base fare. Especially those who would no longer be able to stiff the crew by removing or reducing the gratuities to a "fair" amount, whatever the heck that means. 😕

[wowzz]

33 minutes ago, sloopsailor said:

 

As has been mentioned already, for cruises leaving from certain European countries, as well as Australia and New Zealand, the cruise lines have been forced to roll the gratuities into the base fare to counter the proclivity of your brothermen removing them. You have read all the comments on this thread, so YOU DO KNOW how this works since it has already been carefully explained. That you continue to ignore those explanations by STILL commenting that the staff must be working for nothing baffles me.

 

 

Just clarify this for me.  I book a Princess cruise in the UK. I pay the Princess Plus fare, so, in effect I have paid the gratuities. The autotips are then shared amongst eligible crew members throughout the fleet. 

Are you saying that these eligible crew members still have to rely on discretionary tips over and above the autotips to make up the bulk of their salary ?

 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by wowzz

[sloopsailor]

24 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Just clarify this for me.  I book a Princess cruise in the UK. I pay the Princess Plus fare, so, in effect I have paid the gratuities. The autotips are then shared amongst eligible crew members throughout the fleet. 

Are you saying that these eligible crew members still have to rely on discretionary tips over and above the autotips to make up the bulk of their salary ?

 

 

 

Never mind. I have become bored trying to push this rope uphill. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by sloopsailor

[Potstech]

I do not feel it is up to me to pay additional fees, other than those contracted for, to enhance a salary that is paid for by the employee. I know this will grate on some people's ideas but that is not my problem.  I have ben to many countries in this world and have seen their living standards. If the cruise line can not pay an acceptable salary then they have a problem not me.  I will not even think about tipping crew members just for doing their jobs.

[cr8tiv1]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

Just clarify this for me.  I book a Princess cruise in the UK. I pay the Princess Plus fare, so, in effect I have paid the gratuities. The autotips are then shared amongst eligible crew members throughout the fleet. 

Are you saying that these eligible crew members still have to rely on discretionary tips over and above the autotips to make up the bulk of their salary ?

 

#1.  I am not sure how the Beverage Package is calculated.  I know it includes Crew Appreciation, wifi, and beverages/tips on beverages.  But when I "added" a beverage package to my current booking, the final charge was more than the advertised $40 (at that time).  I am not sure if Princess added.....taxes or increases in insurance.  Whichever, I was charged more than $40 x n days.  Haven't had the time nor inclination to spend time with live chat. Someday, I will seek out the answer.

 

#2.  If I am understanding you correctly, you are inquiring if tips OVER auto-tips "make up" their salary.  From those that I have spoken to, the money they pocket (handed to them after the cruise) is a bonus.  It is "not" factored into their salary but icing on the cake, cherry on the top of a sundae, cream of the crop.  I was pleased to hear that they can keep it and do not have to "turn it in" to the pool. 

 

Think of it as if someone handed you a hundred dollar bill for giving them the time of day (or other nice gesture).  You would thank them for recognizing your attempt to improve their day.  You don't have to report it as income.  You do not need to share it with your boss.  You would be pleased by their kindness.  

 

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, cr8tiv1 said:

It is "not" factored into their salary but icing on the cake, cherry on the top of a sundae, cream of the crop

Thank you. That is my understanding as well. 

The discretionary tips do not make up the "bulk" of their salary.

 

[SantaFeFan]

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

Thank you. That is my understanding as well. 

The discretionary tips do not make up the "bulk" of their salary.

 

 

You might want to read these articles:

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/how-much-do-cruise-ship-workers-make/64121

 

https://highseascruising.com/how-much-do-cruise-ship-workers-make/

 

 

How Much do Cruise Ship Cabin Stewards Make?

Cabin stewards are among the lowest-paid workers on a cruise ship.

Cabin stewards have a base salary of $10,800 but can make as high as $24,000 with tips.

 

 

How much do cruise ship waiters make?

Cruise ship waiter salaries vary from $1,200 per month for a junior waiter to $5,000 per month for the head waiter on an ultra-luxury cruise ship. These salaries generally include gratuities which typically make up 65% of their salary and are collected and shared automatically.

If people choose to tip extra in cash on top of the standard gratuities, then waiters can make more money.

The hours for a cruise ship waiter or waitress can be very long, as they often have to serve breakfast, lunch and dinner with little time off in between.

[DallasGuy75219]

17 hours ago, cr8tiv1 said:

From those that I have spoken to, the money they pocket (handed to them after the cruise) is a bonus.  It is "not" factored into their salary but icing on the cake, cherry on the top of a sundae, cream of the crop.  I was pleased to hear that they can keep it and do not have to "turn it in" to the pool. 

It depends.  On some lines if a pax pulls autotips and tips in cash, the tippee is supposed to turn the cash tips over to be pulled... the theory being those cash tips would otherwise circumvent the pooled tips for crew that are not passenger- facing, or at least as routinely pssenger facing as stateroom stewards and MDR waiters at assigned dining.

[sloopsailor]

57 minutes ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

It depends.  On some lines if a pax pulls autotips and tips in cash, the tippee is supposed to turn the cash tips over to be pulled... the theory being those cash tips would otherwise circumvent the pooled tips for crew that are not passenger- facing, or at least as routinely pssenger facing as stateroom stewards and MDR waiters at assigned dining.

 

True. On most lines all cash tips must be immediately surrendered to the purser'. Those are held until the accounting is done to reconcile all passenger accounts. If a passenger removes or reduces their gratuities, the cash tip amount will be used to offset the money lost. If the passenger keeps the auto tips in place, then the cash tips are returned to the person it was given to. Failure to report those tips can result in disciplinary action such as demotions or even termination in extreme cases. 

[DallasGuy75219]

2 hours ago, sloopsailor said:

Failure to report those tips can result in disciplinary action such as demotions or even termination in extreme cases. 

And from what I hear some crew are big-time snitches when they see someone keeping cash tips that should have been pooled.

 

When I tip MDR waiters and stewards in cash I usually say "Here's some extra for you" ("extra" as in beyond my autotips) but not sure that makes a difference. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by DallasGuy75219

[sloopsailor]

20 hours ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

And from what I hear some crew are big-time snitches when they see someone keeping cash tips that should have been pooled.

 

When I tip MDR waiters and stewards in cash I usually say "Here's some extra for you" ("extra" as in beyond my autotips) but not sure that makes a difference. 

 

That shouldn't make a difference if the crew member is honest and values his job.