Marina Amazon - late

[CurlerRob]

5 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Allowing more time at sea between ports reduces fuel costs. Ships burn less fuel per hour at slower cruising speeds, just as your automobile burns less fuel per mile at slower speeds.

The math is somewhat more complex than just transit fuel cost. For example, time in port uses far less fuel than when underway, so it becomes a balancing act between the two.

 

And transit speed has little relationship to carbon footprint. It takes 'x' amount of fuel to move the ship from A to B - although there is always a most efficient speed (least fuel used per mile). There is a point at which slower is actually less efficient - more fuel used and more carbon footprint.

 

I'd still like to hear someone from O explain the linkage in the letter. 🍺🥌

[njhorseman]

8 minutes ago, CurlerRob said:

The math is somewhat more complex than just transit fuel cost. For example, time in port uses far less fuel than when underway, so it becomes a balancing act between the two.

 

And transit speed has little relationship to carbon footprint. It takes 'x' amount of fuel to move the ship from A to B - although there is always a most efficient speed (least fuel used per mile). There is a point at which slower is actually less efficient - more fuel used and more carbon footprint.

 

I'd still like to hear someone from O explain the linkage in the letter. 🍺🥌

My point is that the "carbon footprint" thing is just BS for PR purposes. It's all about fuel savings and the associated $$$ savings.

When you're sitting in port the fuel the ship is burning, while relatively minimal, is doing nothing to get the ship from that port to the next port. From what I've read the increase in fuel consumption as the ship moves faster is not linear. As you approach the ships maximum cruising speed the fuel consumed increases disproportionately to the increase in speed itself. It should be possible to compute an optimal cruising speed for fuel consumption and by doing so adjust your port schedules in a way that reduces total fuel consumption for the voyage.

[LHT28]

I agree with some of the things O does to reduce waste   but  people do not book cruises on Oceania so they can spend less time in port 

5-6 hr in port is not much time if you want to do tour some areas nearby 

that is quite a reduction in time ashore 

 

I guess time will tell if they made the right  decision or not

I will not be flying overseas  for a port intensive cruise if only in port for 5 hrs  with Oceania prices

Maybe they will just do the caribbean & TA's at a slower pace

JMO

[CurlerRob]

18 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

My point is that the "carbon footprint" thing is just BS for PR purposes. It's all about fuel savings and the associated $$$ savings.

When you're sitting in port the fuel the ship is burning, while relatively minimal, is doing nothing to get the ship from that port to the next port. From what I've read the increase in fuel consumption as the ship moves faster is not linear. As you approach the ships maximum cruising speed the fuel consumed increases disproportionately to the increase in speed itself. It should be possible to compute an optimal cruising speed for fuel consumption and by doing so adjust your port schedules in a way that reduces total fuel consumption for the voyage.

I agree the carbon item is BS - I would just enjoy someone from the company trying to defend it!

 

FYI, fuel consumption per unit distance is not linear with speed, as you've read. However, it's not a smooth curve either - there's an optimally efficient speed, but fuel consumption/unit distance increases both above and below that speed. So it's not as straightforward as go slower, cost less.

 

And even if you transit at the most efficient speed, that may not fit the needs of the cruise. For example,  what minimum amount of time in port is acceptable to pax? How about tidal restrictions or pilot availability? And many more ...

 

Optimizing costs on a cruise ship is extremely complex. Squeezing any one item causes issues in other cost areas. I'm happy I just get to pay for them and don't have to try and manage them. 🍺🥌

[the more ports the better]

LHT, I agree, I would be sorely disappointed if I travelled to NZ and port times were cut short.  The Caribbean, no big deal.

 

Keep in mind that with the pandemic financial hit, ESG scores may be causing O to be between a rock and a hard place choosing between customer satisfaction and keeping their financial institutions happy.  Both banks and funds, are pushing ESG scores.  BlackRock, Fidelity and State Street as well as others are refusing funding if their ESG scores are not what they deem acceptable.  
 

They are also purchasing large interests and seating board members who will enforce their agendas.      If Blackrock and Vanguard want O to have a smaller carbon footprint, O has no choice but to comply regardless of how it will impact their customers.  

[LHT28]

55 minutes ago, the more ports the better said:

LHT, I agree, I would be sorely disappointed if I travelled to NZ and port times were cut short.  The Caribbean, no big deal.

 

Keep in mind that with the pandemic financial hit, ESG scores may be causing O to be between a rock and a hard place choosing between customer satisfaction and keeping their financial institutions happy.  Both banks and funds, are pushing ESG scores.  BlackRock, Fidelity and State Street as well as others are refusing funding if their ESG scores are not what they deem acceptable.  
 

They are also purchasing large interests and seating board members who will enforce their agendas.      If Blackrock and Vanguard want O to have a smaller carbon footprint, O has no choice but to comply regardless of how it will impact their customers.  

if  they make  port visits too short they may not have a paying pax  to worry about

 I know all lines are trying to recover  from the pandemic era   & it will take time  but cutting the things that attract pax to Oceania  is not going to help  or maybe they will get new clients that do not care about  the time spent in ports

time will tell as they say 😉

 

[PaulMCO]

More garbage and BS from Oceania.

It also impacts Oceania tours. At Recife -- changed a 1:45 pm tour to a late morning tour because of an earlier planned departure. That tour got back (all 4 buses) at 2:15pm and Terrace promptly closed forcing 200 people to descend on Waves.  Guess what that looked like. 

 

That day my wife had her never Oceania again face on.

 

 

[janecambridge]

That day Paul was very bad. 

it is extremely hot down here and very high humidity. Making late arrivals at port/dock and pushing  tours back is not very nice in the heat of the day. As you know by now there  have been many delayed dockings. But we have not been informed about most of them. 
communication is very poor. 
As I have said before, arriving late then leaving early is thoughtless to the poor staff who hope to get off for shopping or even seeing family. 

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, PaulMCO said:

More garbage and BS from Oceania.

It also impacts Oceania tours. At Recife -- changed a 1:45 pm tour to a late morning tour because of an earlier planned departure. That tour got back (all 4 buses) at 2:15pm and Terrace promptly closed forcing 200 people to descend on Waves.  Guess what that looked like. 

 

That day my wife had her never Oceania again face on.

 

 

Paul  this  is not looking good

 

 

[pinotlover]

I am a traveler, not a cruiser. I cruise for the ports, not to sit on a ship. If port times gets cut, on our upcoming cruise, and we are forced to eliminate tours or significantly shorten them, that will mean cancellation of three booking when we get home.

 

Oceania can then truly become a fleet for those “ with the ship being the destination “ and those only wanting 2-4 hour shore visits. We’ll see how that works out for Oceania.

 

FWIW, one sea day Captain Max gave a full rundown of ship operating costs. Fuel consumption drops only about 30% while the ship is in dock or anchorage. Most of the power generation goes to powering all ship functions not related to motoring. Time at dock is a huge cost. Shorter dock times = less costs. Per Cpt Max, for major ports, docking fees are higher than fuel costs if staying at sea. That reduction in fuel costs does not offset the port fees. Most every sea day is a bigger moneymaker over a port day.

 

 

[susiesan]

15 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

I am a traveler, not a cruiser. I cruise for the ports, not to sit on a ship. If port times gets cut, on our upcoming cruise, and we are forced to eliminate tours or significantly shorten them, that will mean cancellation of three booking when we get home.

 

Oceania can then truly become a fleet for those “ with the ship being the destination “ and those only wanting 2-4 hour shore visits. We’ll see how that works out for Oceania.

 

Pinotlover, I am surprised that you and I are in agreement on something 😉 

 

My cruise on Sirena Sept. 2 was chosen for the extended time in ports, there are 6 counting the last port, Lisbon, which is an overnight.  The main destination is the Canary Islands, a place I have never been. All of the other ports will be first time for me too. if O is going to shorten the in port times then I will be cancelling this cruise and taking a similar one I have booked on Celebrity. If this is going to be the new way Oceania does business then I want to see notices of inter changes going out now, before final payments are due and we have an opportunity to cancel without penalties.

[janecambridge]

Tomorrow is Rio de Janeiro dock at midday(12). Captain made some babble about 11.30 which we believe was something like “on stand”?? But Hilary the social hostess just let out we will be arriving at 1pm. !

[janecambridge]

This mornings bruised fruit offerings and empty areas. 

[shepherd really]

The finest cuisine at sea. It's a shame there is no decent fruit to be found in South America

[urlaub]

I was so excited to come back to Marina after Covid and I am so disappointed ! The ship itself is not in a good condition. Outside rusty. The aircondition is not working properly. In our stateroom the lowest temperature is 23 celsius. Since Miami I ask for solving this problem. Nothing! The food isn‘t best on sea. Nearly every 3rd day the same. No fresh fruit and berries since a couple of days . Only melons and brown bananas. No Mango or Papaya in Soith America. 

Also these shortened times in ports! In Puerto Chacabuco the leave 2 Hours earlier and it is a tender port. So our private tour will be a problem. Also the Falkland Island is cutted.

I could save a lot of money when I book Costa which has only 5 hours in port as an average.

I am booked on Vista in August and I am pretty sure to cancel it after my return from Marina.

I will find out if other cruiselines do the same. It will be easy to change to Viking, Azamara etc

Oceania will loose us. We had 23 cruises with them and I think not one more.

Btw on this cruise it in nearly impossible to talk with an officer.

On our former cruises the General Manager was always visible 

. Easy to talk with and they had an ear for the guests 

[pinotlover]

57 minutes ago, urlaub said:

I was so excited to come back to Marina after Covid and I am so disappointed ! The ship itself is not in a good condition. Outside rusty. The aircondition is not working properly. In our stateroom the lowest temperature is 23 celsius. Since Miami I ask for solving this problem. Nothing! The food isn‘t best on sea. Nearly every 3rd day the same. No fresh fruit and berries since a couple of days . Only melons and brown bananas. No Mango or Papaya in Soith America. 

Also these shortened times in ports! In Puerto Chacabuco the leave 2 Hours earlier and it is a tender port. So our private tour will be a problem. Also the Falkland Island is cutted.

I could save a lot of money when I book Costa which has only 5 hours in port as an average.

I am booked on Vista in August and I am pretty sure to cancel it after my return from Marina.

I will find out if other cruiselines do the same. It will be easy to change to Viking, Azamara etc

Oceania will loose us. We had 23 cruises with them and I think not one more.

Btw on this cruise it in nearly impossible to talk with an officer.

On our former cruises the General Manager was always visible 

. Easy to talk with and they had an ear for the guests 

Explain what happened with the Falklands, please. We have an all day tour to Volunteer Point booked.

[urlaub]

again one hour later and due to tender… We also are booked to Volonteer Point..

[pinotlover]

3 minutes ago, urlaub said:

again one hour later and due to tender… We also are booked to Volonteer Point..

Please let us know how it unfolds. Thanks! 🙏

[Jancruz]

20 hours ago, CurlerRob said:

The math is somewhat more complex than just transit fuel cost. For example, time in port uses far less fuel than when underway, so it becomes a balancing act between the two.

 

And transit speed has little relationship to carbon footprint. It takes 'x' amount of fuel to move the ship from A to B - although there is always a most efficient speed (least fuel used per mile). There is a point at which slower is actually less efficient - more fuel used and more carbon footprint.

 

I'd still like to hear someone from O explain the linkage in the letter. 🍺🥌

Unfortunately you will not..and this is going system wide..

Jancruz1

[CurlerRob]

24 minutes ago, Jancruz said:

Unfortunately you will not..and this is going system wide..

Jancruz1

 

I am unclear on what you mean. Are you saying that O will not elaborate on how "optimized arrival / departure times" connect to carbon footprint reduction? If so, that's the organizations' privilege.

 

By "system wide" are you saying that alterations in arrival / departure (which so far appear to be described as reductions in port time) will be the norm? 🍺🥌

[mauibabes]

If System Wide as Jan says, it is pretty easy to understand, All O Ships All itineraries throughout the world will be impacted as they work to meet those goals. The pressure will be on the Captains to follow the guidelines. What the absolute adjustments are for the specific itineraries remains to be seen.  What I saw for our Jan 18 BA to Santiago cruise was not significant IMHO. When on  Private Tours, we will just have to jump on that first tender, especially in the Falklands because we have to see those penguins or my DW will shoot me.  
 

I guess no more pedal to the metal high speed racing to the next port. Oceania is not the only cruise line playing this environmental game and reducing carbon footprint and all that 🤬🤬 

but they all have to look good to the governments, especially foreign ones who control their access to the ports.

We will just have to untwist our knickers and go with the flow because we are not in control, other than choosing not to cruise, which I am not ready to do. 
 

👍🙏😇🛳️  Mauibabes

[osandomir]

1 hour ago, mauibabes said:

If System Wide as Jan says, it is pretty easy to understand, All O Ships All itineraries throughout the world will be impacted as they work to meet those goals. The pressure will be on the Captains to follow the guidelines. What the absolute adjustments are for the specific itineraries remains to be seen.  What I saw for our Jan 18 BA to Santiago cruise was not significant IMHO. When on  Private Tours, we will just have to jump on that first tender, especially in the Falklands because we have to see those penguins or my DW will shoot me.  
 

I guess no more pedal to the metal high speed racing to the next port. Oceania is not the only cruise line playing this environmental game and reducing carbon footprint and all that 🤬🤬 

but they all have to look good to the governments, especially foreign ones who control their access to the ports.

We will just have to untwist our knickers and go with the flow because we are not in control, other than choosing not to cruise, which I am not ready to do. 
 

👍🙏😇🛳️  Mauibabes

You better do whatever you can - that penguins are amazing. Wish you best luck. Being able to see the things like that is enough for us to keep cruising even if we’re forced to adjust our expectations. 

[pinotlover]

I believe some are ignoring Captain Max’s comments that only 30% of the power generation goes to turning the screws. 70% goes to onboard ship operations such as a/c, hot water, laundry operations, kitchen operations, garbage compressor, electrical systems, water purification, etc. Sure, a bit can be saved by maximizing optimum operations of the screws, but the numbers are great.

 

You should have heard the numbers he quoted for some of the ports for being docked per hour!!! One hour less in some of those ports is far more than any possible fuel savings in getting there.

Edited January 7, 2023 by pinotlover

[AMHuntFerry]

2 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

I believe some are ignoring Captain Max’s comments that only 30% of the power generation goes to turning the screws. 70% goes to onboard ship operations such as a/c, hot water, laundry operations, kitchen operations, garbage compressor, electrical systems, water purification, etc. Sure, a bit can be saved by maximizing optimum operations of the screws, but the numbers are great.

 

You should have heard the numbers he quoted for some of the ports for being docked per hour!!! One hour less in some of those ports is far more than any possible fuel savings in getting there.

Well there goes my hope that we would see more overnights in port (to save rushing from one port to another)

[janecambridge]

The disembarkation today was dreadful. Our cruise ship and 2 massive ships all emptying at the same time. Thousands and thousands going in the same terminal at Rio de Janeiro to collect luggage and herded together through a narrow gate. 
The air con was really poor on board ship as previously said. Another cutback for the environment? 
We will miss many members of staff from Marina who spoilt us.