Food: Current vs pre-covid

[westcoastcruiser]

41 minutes ago, 0106 said:

You can order fresh squeezed OJ anytime; it counts for one drink of your HIA package.  Fruit crisps are available every night, even if they aren’t on the menu in the MDR, just ask( so is a cheese plate).  I had excellent service from the servers at the  Seaview pool, even if all I wanted  was water.

Thank you…will keep this info in mind…when we ordered orange juice..we were given the watered down version.  Did not know about the option of ordering the crisps.  And, yes, we found the bartenders excellent.  

[Crew News]

1 hour ago, westcoastcruiser said:

......since many cruisers have the HIA package, we were surprised and disappointed to see no sommelier in the MDR. 

 

I noted the lack of Sommeliers aboard the Rotterdam in December and asked the Canaletto Manager about it.  There are indeed Sommeliers in every Specialty Restaurant, MDR, and Lido/Canaletto.  Their identifying cups and distinctive clothing have been replaced with the same uniforms as all other servers.  One of the Sommeliers stopped to chat and explained that they were still present but now disguised as waiters/beverage servers. 

 

You must now ask your waiter if you would like to speak with a wine expert. 

 

Maybe the cups worn around their necks got too expensive???

[HALcruiser2001]

10 hours ago, westcoastcruiser said:

I am reading with interest everyone’s take on current vs pre-pandemic.  We notice some of our favorites  glaringly absent and missed.  The fresh squeezed orange juice has been replaced with highly concentrated tasteless liquid.  Fresh shrimp cocktail is no longer a regular offering.  Used to love and look forward  to the daily fruit crisps that are now only an occasional offering.  
 

since many cruisers have the HIA package, we were surprised and disappointed to see no sommelier in the MDR.  Our waiter finally brought our beverage, ordered before our meal, at the time he brought dessert.  No one came around to offer mixed drinks or wine.  Perhaps because it is part of a package, there is no extra money to be made by selling drinks.  
 

similarly, we saw very few individuals walking around the pool offering drinks of any kind.  
 

i am comparing this to Celebrity which we sailed two months ago. All of these were offered by them for a less expensive price.  HAL has always been, imo, a step up so seeing these favorites  now absent for more money is discouraging.  

I tried to book a suite in Nov 2022 for Celebrity and HAL, same destination in Feb 2023.

 

For a suite Celebrity was 2x cost.    YMMV

[HALcruiser2001]

On 1/13/2023 at 8:57 PM, JCrewz said:

OttaHand....every dish looks fantastic.  We were on the Westerdam in September and Holland's food far surpassed Carnival Vista's.  Going on the Eurodam on Sunday and looking forward to more great, hot, fresh plates.  Hoping my wife doesn't catch me looking at these pictures!

The fries look pretty horrific, if that's what they are.

[HALcruiser2001]

On 1/14/2023 at 4:20 AM, Mary229 said:

And here is the crux of the issue.   These 7 day cruises are offered at pre-inflation bargain prices and that simply cannot continue without major degradation to the product.  I fail to understand how someone thinks they will get a great meal and spectacular entertainment for the price of a road side motel.  I am serious.   These cruises are being offered for $100 a day and that is what a roadside motel costs these days.  
 

My advice in this current circumstance is buy the lowest end of the rooms, there is no point buying the suite and getting steerage class service . At $700 it is a decent bargain holiday but at $2200/ 7 days it is not.

 

HAL. Needs to think carefully before launching their new long, exotic itinerary model.  It is one thing to suffer cutbacks for 7 days but could be mutinous for 30 days. 

 

Well.   My cruise cost >$8k, a tad bit more than a roadside motel, yeah?

[Mary229]

2 minutes ago, bdd123 said:

 

Well.   My cruise cost >$8k, a tad bit more than a roadside motel, yeah?

Was it a 7 day cruise? What rate per day, did you book an upper class suite?  Did yo7 read my entire post?

Edited January 16, 2023 by Mary229

[cruisemom42]

12 minutes ago, bdd123 said:

I tried to book a suite in Nov 2022 for Celebrity and HAL, same destination in Feb 2023.

 

For a suite Celebrity was 2x cost.    YMMV

 

Celebrity offers a much different suite experience than HAL does. Separate "retreat" area, dedicated dining room with a different menu and much more that I am not aware of as a non-suite passenger.  HAL and Celebrity aren't so far apart for veranda cabins most times (any individual cruise can vary one way or the other).  But it's hard to compare suites between the two lines, they truly are apples and oranges.

 

[HALcruiser2001]

44 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Celebrity offers a much different suite experience than HAL does. Separate "retreat" area, dedicated dining room with a different menu and much more that I am not aware of as a non-suite passenger.  HAL and Celebrity aren't so far apart for veranda cabins most times (any individual cruise can vary one way or the other).  But it's hard to compare suites between the two lines, they truly are apples and oranges.

 

 

I am comparing apples to apples as much as possible and even including thermal spa, HIA, and cabana celebrity was still 2x.

 

I doubt I will sail HAL again in my lifetime.   Feb is our 3rd HAL cruise in 23 years.   Unless this HAL cruise exceeds expectations in music, food and service, it will likely be my last.

 

Cruises are not about travel or ports to me.    If I wish to experience a destination I live in one place for extended time.   Not really into local tourist stuff for 1-3 hrs, thus why I have only done cruises when they are convenient for my old parents and now, unfortunately, disabled wife.

[cruisemom42]

4 minutes ago, bdd123 said:

Cruises are not about travel or ports to me.    If I wish to experience a destination I live in one place for extended time.   Not really into local tourist stuff for 1-3 hrs, thus why I have only done cruises when they are convenient for my old parents and now, unfortunately, disabled wife.

 

We're all different -- gotta choose what works for you.

[HALcruiser2001]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

Was it a 7 day cruise? What rate per day, did you book an upper class suite?  Did yo7 read my entire post?

 

Yep 7 NIGHTS.  Neptune Suite.   If I get steerage class service, HAL won't ever see me again.   I gave you rate.   With HIA, Cabana, one extra night specialty dining we are > 9k now for 7 days.   >600/nt/pax.

 

 

[Mary229]

5 minutes ago, bdd123 said:

 

Yep 7 NIGHTS.  Neptune Suite.   If I get steerage class service, HAL won't ever see me again.   I gave you rate.   With HIA, Cabana, one extra night specialty dining we are > 9k now for 7 days.   >600/nt/pax.

 

 

That is a problem currently.  I agree it shouldn’t be but those are the facts and the reason I gave the advice not to buy the upper classes.  
 

It is just like real estate advice - don’t buy the most expensive house in the neighborhood instead if luxury is important up the cheapest house in the upper class neighborhood.  
 

.  I wish HAL would raise the base rates and maintain their service levels but that does not seem to be th decision they have made for 2022 and perhaps for 2023.  

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, bdd123 said:

 

Yep 7 NIGHTS.  Neptune Suite.   If I get steerage class service, HAL won't ever see me again.   I gave you rate.   With HIA, Cabana, one extra night specialty dining we are > 9k now for 7 days.   >600/nt/pax.

 

 

I think that HAL has long offered the worst suite amenities in the industry.  Things have improved, somewhat, on the newer vessels that have a dedicated dining venue for the upper suites (the Signature Suites still get treated like steerage).  But even the dedicated dining venue has been watered down by being made available to anyone booking Club Orange.  So somebody could be in a the cheapest inside cabin, pay an extra $25 a day (i.e. Club Orange) and get the same dining amenities as those in the expensive Neptune and Pinnacle Suites (somebody please correct me if I am wrong).  

 

On many other lines, expensive suites come with dedicated pool decks, private dining venues, all-inclusive drink packages, included cabin mini-bars (restoced daily),  Internet, dedicated lounges with adult beverages included, etc.  Those lines provide something akin to true first class experience for those paying the big bucks.  That is not the case on HAL, even for those in the most expensive suites.

 

Hank

[KroozNut]

On 1/14/2023 at 3:44 PM, mwj said:

We have found the pizza poor.

Which pizza are you referring to, and on which ships? To us, there is a huge difference in taste and quality between the pizza typically served in the Lido buffet on most ships (so-so), and the pizza offered at the NY Pizza (Signature Class) and NY Pizza/Deli (Pinnacle Class) venues which we find to be very good to excellent.

[mwj]

Just now, KroozNut said:

Which pizza are you referring to, and on which ships? To us, there is a huge difference in taste and quality between the pizza typically served in the Lido buffet on most ships (so-so), and the pizza offered at the NY Pizza (Signature Class) and NY Pizza/Deli (Pinnacle Class) venues which we find to be very good to excellent.

We were very disappointed in the quality of NY Pizza on the NA.

[MereBooty]

37 minutes ago, mwj said:

We were very disappointed in the quality of NY Pizza on the NA.

 

I was surprised that I liked the pizza so much on the Koningsdam last week. It is a style I like - thin crispy crust, not too much cheese and sauce, and some almost burnt patches from the properly very hot pizza oven. It was better than the pre-Covid pizza we had from NY Pizza on the Eurodam.

 

I had bad food on the ship - awful churros from the Lido and a breakfast sandwich from NY Pizza and deli with half-melted cheese and cold interior - but most of what we tried was good to excellent.

[jimbob22]

6 minutes ago, MereBooty said:

 

I was surprised that I liked the pizza so much on the Koningsdam last week. It is a style I like - thin crispy crust, not too much cheese and sauce, and some almost burnt patches from the properly very hot pizza oven. It was better than the pre-Covid pizza we had from NY Pizza on the Eurodam.

 

I had bad food on the ship - awful churros from the Lido and a breakfast sandwich from NY Pizza and deli with half-melted cheese and cold interior - but most of what we tried was good to excellent.

Thin with a little burnt (in the good way) sounds like a typical Carnival pizza.  In our experience, Carnival has had good pizza consistency from ship to ship.  Hal, for whatever reason, has struggled with this more.  5 years ago I wasn't thrilled with K-dam pizza, but it may be just different workers, making the crust a bit thinner makes a huge difference.  Seemingly, Hal pizza would be the same as Carnival, but the latter is generally a little better at it.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, jimbob22 said:

Thin with a little burnt (in the good way) sounds like a typical Carnival pizza.  In our experience, Carnival has had good pizza consistency from ship to ship.  Hal, for whatever reason, has struggled with this more.  5 years ago I wasn't thrilled with K-dam pizza, but it may be just different workers, making the crust a bit thinner makes a huge difference.  Seemingly, Hal pizza would be the same as Carnival, but the latter is generally a little better at it.

The worst pizza (I ever had) was on the Prinsendam (our favorite ship).  The Lido manager once apologized for the awful pizza and explained they had no space to install a decent pizza oven.  They did the best they could do, but it fell far short.

[jimbob22]

11 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

The worst pizza (I ever had) was on the Prinsendam (our favorite ship).  The Lido manager once apologized for the awful pizza and explained they had no space to install a decent pizza oven.  They did the best they could do, but it fell far short.

it just makes no sense b/c I'd think that they're using a very similar oven that Carnival uses.  I think that they're not that tall or huge, obviously it's not a big fancy, fire-brick oven like a land-based place would use.  And I don't even think the oven needs to be super hot (450-500 is fine), so I'm not sure what the issue is. They need to standardize the thickness of the uncooked crust, and I'm thinking that maybe they're sometime cooking at 300-350, so It's not alway coming out with the right meltiness, sauce isn't evaporating quite as much as it would in a hotter oven.  Hal can reach out to me as pizza consultant/influencer, I can spend some time on board until they get this right.  I'm a giver.

[Hlitner]

25 minutes ago, jimbob22 said:

it just makes no sense b/c I'd think that they're using a very similar oven that Carnival uses.  I think that they're not that tall or huge, obviously it's not a big fancy, fire-brick oven like a land-based place would use.  And I don't even think the oven needs to be super hot (450-500 is fine), so I'm not sure what the issue is. They need to standardize the thickness of the uncooked crust, and I'm thinking that maybe they're sometime cooking at 300-350, so It's not alway coming out with the right meltiness, sauce isn't evaporating quite as much as it would in a hotter oven.  Hal can reach out to me as pizza consultant/influencer, I can spend some time on board until they get this right.  I'm a giver.

I was just recalling a past conversation with a senior officer on the Prinsendam.  Their galley was somewhat unusual because most (of not all) of the stoves/ovens got their heat from steam that was piped up to the galley.  Unlike modern ships, they did not use electric (including induction).  At the time I thought that was really fascinating and made a lot of sense in terms of smart energy use.  I am not sure if that system was also used in the Lido's galley or if it had been converted to normal electric during the many drydock upgrades over the years.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

4 hours ago, Mary229 said:

It is just like real estate advice - don’t buy the most expensive house in the neighborhood instead if luxury is important up the cheapest house in the upper class neighborhood.  

 

If I mock book a $700 per week inside cabin, it comes to $2,800 with Have It All, $2,000 without.  7 nights at a roadside motel would cost $700.  On one hand the motel doesn't feed you, entertain you, and take you on a journey.  On the other hand, the motel isn't making money off a casino, shops, excursions, alcohol, a spa, and uncharge restaurants.

 

We stayed at a resort in Kauai, HI last summer for $135 in Wyndham hotel points per night, so there are times that these two types of vacations can be more competitive.

 

Your real estate example makes sense, but not just for cheap cabins on HAL. There's also entry level cabins on Azamara, Oceania, Viking Ocean, Etc.

 

 

[Hlitner]

7 hours ago, Mary229 said:

That is a problem currently.  I agree it shouldn’t be but those are the facts and the reason I gave the advice not to buy the upper classes.  
 

It is just like real estate advice - don’t buy the most expensive house in the neighborhood instead if luxury is important up the cheapest house in the upper class neighborhood.  
 

.  I wish HAL would raise the base rates and maintain their service levels but that does not seem to be th decision they have made for 2022 and perhaps for 2023.  

You raise an excellent issue that I think applies to many cruise lines.  It is about the overall value of a large suite.  On HAL you certainly get the extra space and usually a very nice cabin.  On some ships you will even get a dedicated dining venue (along with Club Orange) and also get access to a lounge.  On some other lines (such as Celebrity) you would get a lot more amenities included a dedicated outdoor pool area and adult beverages in a private lounge.  On other lines you also get superior cuisine (unlike HAL which is essentially a slightly modified MDR menu).

 

But consider that for about the same (or even less) price you could cruise on a luxury line (such as Seabourn).  While a regular suite would be smaller than a Neptune, it is quite nice.   But you also get the huge advantage of a small ship luxury ship with all the amenities including top shelf booze, pretty good wine on demand, French Champagne, caviar, no crowds, and pretty decent entertainment.  Having been on many cruises with HAL (and other mass market lines) and also some luxury lines, it is not even close in terms of service, cuisine, atmosphere, etc.  On Seabourn (for example) the crew does not seem to have the word "no" in their vocabulary.  You want something?  They will generally make it happen and there will be no add-on cost.  Want special services in a port and the Guest Relations staff will arrange it (while you are sitting at a comfy desk, not standing at a crowded counter.  When we asked Seabourn to arrange for a private car/driver to take us (at debarkation) from Monte Carlo to our Nice hotel, that car/driver was waiting right next to the gangplank (no lines).  If I want champagne and caviar at a bar, the platter of caviar (and fixens) will soon arrive along with the champagne (no charge).  When I dine in the Thomas Keller Grill (their upscale alternative restaurant) there is no extra charge if I want an extra course, salad, etc!  They would not even know how to process an add-on charge!  But many HAL cruisers would not be able to handle Seabourn because the MDR does not even open until 7pm for dinner :).   5pm would be considered tea time.   And, if you happen to cruise Seabourn in the Caribbean or Greek Islands they will normally lease a private beach facility and have a beach BBQ with steak, lobster, and "caviar in the surf."  

 

One could also consider a ship within a ship.  A small suite (over 300 sq feet) in MSC's Yacht Club will cost less than $500 per person/day.  That will get you the suite, the mini bar (restocked daily), a couple of bottles of liquor (your choice), a dedicated section of the ship (including large lounge with entertainment and a constant snack buffet, a private pool deck with comfy loungers, a lido buffet on that same pool deck, 24 hour concierge, unlimited top shelf drinks, unlimited Internet, terrific butlers that will escort you on and off the ship (by passing the masses), reserved seating for the daily production shows, etc.  On MSC's private Caribbean Island, they have a private beach and restaurant for the Yacht Club folks with the usual unlimited drinks and terrific chair-side service.

 

I mention this primarily for those folks who are "loyal to HAL" and seldom to never try other lines.  To say that you do not know what you are missing is an understatement.

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

If I mock book a $700 per week inside cabin, it comes to $2,800 with Have It All, $2,000 without.  7 nights at a roadside motel would cost $700.  On one hand the motel doesn't feed you, entertain you, and take you on a journey.  On the other hand, the motel isn't making money off a casino, shops, excursions, alcohol, a spa, and uncharge restaurants.

 

We stayed at a resort in Kauai, HI last summer for $135 in Wyndham hotel points per night, so there are times that these two types of vacations can be more competitive.

 

Your real estate example makes sense, but not just for cheap cabins on HAL. There's also entry level cabins on Azamara, Oceania, Viking Ocean, Etc.

 

 

I am  not following your math.  A $700 room is $1400 double. The other cost in your math I suspect are taxes and port fees. A $700 room on land will have anywhere from a 12 to 25% tax, yes hotel taxes are a politicians best friend and are very high. If it is double occupancy it may also be at a higher rate than the base $700.  Of course the point  is it is not transport, food, entertainment, etc…. Heck you won’t even get once a day maid service at a $100 hotel.  
 

I don’t consider HAL a luxury brand.  I consider it a mass market brand.  It only becomes premium when you sail one of their grand voyages or GV segments.  And then it is not a luxury sailing merely a bit more entertaining.  My point is not comparison of two vacation types, my point is people who want to sail for $100 a day and expecting fine cuisine and high quality entertainment need to adjust down their expectations.  
 

I like HAL’s specialized itineraries and their peace and quiet so I am not trying to deride them but my expectations are realistic.  They most closely fit my desires for cruising.  

[shack]

55 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

You raise an excellent issue that I think applies to many cruise lines.  It is about the overall value of a large suite.  On HAL you certainly get the extra space and usually a very nice cabin.  On some ships you will even get a dedicated dining venue (along with Club Orange) and also get access to a lounge.  On some other lines (such as Celebrity) you would get a lot more amenities included a dedicated outdoor pool area and adult beverages in a private lounge.  On other lines you also get superior cuisine (unlike HAL which is essentially a slightly modified MDR menu).

 

But consider that for about the same (or even less) price you could cruise on a luxury line (such as Seabourn).  While a regular suite would be smaller than a Neptune, it is quite nice.   But you also get the huge advantage of a small ship luxury ship with all the amenities including top shelf booze, pretty good wine on demand, French Champagne, caviar, no crowds, and pretty decent entertainment.  Having been on many cruises with HAL (and other mass market lines) and also some luxury lines, it is not even close in terms of service, cuisine, atmosphere, etc.  On Seabourn (for example) the crew does not seem to have the word "no" in their vocabulary.  You want something?  They will generally make it happen and there will be no add-on cost.  Want special services in a port and the Guest Relations staff will arrange it (while you are sitting at a comfy desk, not standing at a crowded counter.  When we asked Seabourn to arrange for a private car/driver to take us (at debarkation) from Monte Carlo to our Nice hotel, that car/driver was waiting right next to the gangplank (no lines).  If I want champagne and caviar at a bar, the platter of caviar (and fixens) will soon arrive along with the champagne (no charge).  When I dine in the Thomas Keller Grill (their upscale alternative restaurant) there is no extra charge if I want an extra course, salad, etc!  They would not even know how to process an add-on charge!  But many HAL cruisers would not be able to handle Seabourn because the MDR does not even open until 7pm for dinner :).   5pm would be considered tea time.   And, if you happen to cruise Seabourn in the Caribbean or Greek Islands they will normally lease a private beach facility and have a beach BBQ with steak, lobster, and "caviar in the surf."  

 

One could also consider a ship within a ship.  A small suite (over 300 sq feet) in MSC's Yacht Club will cost less than $500 per person/day.  That will get you the suite, the mini bar (restocked daily), a couple of bottles of liquor (your choice), a dedicated section of the ship (including large lounge with entertainment and a constant snack buffet, a private pool deck with comfy loungers, a lido buffet on that same pool deck, 24 hour concierge, unlimited top shelf drinks, unlimited Internet, terrific butlers that will escort you on and off the ship (by passing the masses), reserved seating for the daily production shows, etc.  On MSC's private Caribbean Island, they have a private beach and restaurant for the Yacht Club folks with the usual unlimited drinks and terrific chair-side service.

 

I mention this primarily for those folks who are "loyal to HAL" and seldom to never try other lines.  To say that you do not know what you are missing is an understatement.

 

That's a great rundown and the voice of experience.  The TAs on the luxury lines only ring in at around $200/pp per day for a 14-15 day repositioning.  That's like stealing for super all-inclusive.  We used to do them for total work decompression (8 times).  A group of Aussies do Seadream Yacht Club TA repositionings every spring and fall and they really make for a good time.  Another observation is despite having the run of the bar for everything, I've almost never seen someone over-served on a luxury line.  Compared to floating frat houses like Carnival (they don't name it that for nothing), it's like the difference between the Ritz-Carlton and Motel 6.

 

My favorite line overheard on Seabourn:

 

Steward: "Sir, is there anything at all you would like??"

Passenger: "Yes, I would like to be hungry..."

[KroozNut]

8 hours ago, mwj said:

We were very disappointed in the quality of NY Pizza on the NA.

 

Have you experienced it on any other HAL ships for comparison?

[KroozNut]

6 hours ago, jimbob22 said:

it just makes no sense b/c I'd think that they're using a very similar oven that Carnival uses.  I think that they're not that tall or huge, obviously it's not a big fancy, fire-brick oven like a land-based place would use.  And I don't even think the oven needs to be super hot (450-500 is fine), so I'm not sure what the issue is. They need to standardize the thickness of the uncooked crust, and I'm thinking that maybe they're sometime cooking at 300-350, so It's not alway coming out with the right meltiness, sauce isn't evaporating quite as much as it would in a hotter oven.  Hal can reach out to me as pizza consultant/influencer, I can spend some time on board until they get this right.  I'm a giver.

 

You kinda keep referring to Carnival as a comparison to HAL experiences... most recently here, regarding pizza quality. Are you a closet Carnival fan?

If so, then you're on the wrong board.. Lol 😄