Food and dining on P&O ships

[Bazrat]

2 minutes ago, Red Ray said:

It always strikes me as a damned cheek that vegans moan & whinge about the food offerings available to suit their lifestyle choice. My lifestyle choice would be to cosy up with Kylie Minogue but I am yet to find her waiting in my cabin.

Actually she passed me in the corridor and said she gave up waiting for you in your cabin

[Bazrat]

17 minutes ago, zap99 said:

They are leaning towards helping veggies. The ' always available ' sirloin is down to 5oz. They're slowly getting there.

You can have 2 sirloin that would be 10oz

[twotravellersLondon]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

It seems that trying to cater for  veggies and vegans has reduced the choice for the majority of passengers who are neither, which would seem an even more stupid business choice.

 

Not a lot of people know this...

 

"A vegan diet may lack certain essential nutrients such as vitamin B12, iron, calcium, omega-3 fatty acids, and protein. It's crucial to carefully plan your diet to ensure you get all necessary nutrients." so says the Birmingham based Vegan Society! That means nutritional supplements and food fortified with additional minerals and vitamins are essential

 

Most committed vegetarians and vegans know the cruising pitfalls, know what's lacking and know what to do about it... to make sure that they have a balanced, healthy diet. A Vegan diet missing Vitamin B12 can lead to; headaches, indigestion, loss of appetite, palpitations, vision problems, fatigue an upset digestive system and cognitive changes.

 

The problem is that when cruise-lines go vegie, vegie and reduce portions of meat and the number of dairy ingredients as a cost-cutting exercise, some... folks, without realising it at first, will begin to miss out on essential nutrients... Vitamin B12 for starters. Who's most at risk? People who are older... people with undiagnosed malabsorption... (almost 1% of the population) and, in the case of cruising... those older folks on longer cruises!

 

We've no problems with folk having vegetarian or vegan options available but cruise-lines filling their menus by stealth with ultra-processed "plant-based" products devoid of essential nutrients without giving cruisers the opportunity to see exactly the ingredients... is wrong, in our opinion ... because greater exposure to ultra processed foods is bad for health and bad for mental health... as stated in the British Medical Journal in Feb. 2024.

 

Here's an idea... order up the always available steak... Wait a moment or two after it's been delivered and then shout across the MDR, "Waiter! Waiter! There's a green-bean on my steak!" 😥😱

 

 

[Sonyar]

I'm disappointed but not surprised by a lot of these comments. Everyone can eat Vegan dishes, but not the other way round.

I read complaints about the food all the time on here yet a Vegan posts and people reply that they should try another cruise line.

It's not just about Vegans a lot of people are flexitarian and what about those who are lactose intolerant?

The food on Arvia (not just the excellent Green &Co) is definitely better so P&O can do it.

 

 

[alpha whiskey]

1 hour ago, twotravellersLondon said:

headaches, indigestion, loss of appetite, palpitations, vision problems, fatigue an upset digestive system and cognitive changes.

The morning after a good night in Brodies?? 🥂🙃

[nosapphire]

Yes, the majority of people CAN eat vegan dishes - but not all CHOOSE to do so.

Likewise, the majority of vegans CAN eat non-vegan food - but CHOOSE not to do so.

 

The only people who have no choice about boycotting certain foods are those with allergies or serious intolerances - comparing vegan requirements with somebody who is lactose intolerant is disengenious.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alpha whiskey]

1 hour ago, Sonyar said:

I'm disappointed but not surprised by a lot of these comments. Everyone can eat Vegan dishes, but not the other way round.

I read complaints about the food all the time on here yet a Vegan posts and people reply that they should try another cruise line.

It's not just about Vegans a lot of people are flexitarian and what about those who are lactose intolerant?

The food on Arvia (not just the excellent Green &Co) is definitely better so P&O can do it.

 

 

Unfortunately no organisation will ever please all of the people all of the time.

 

They can only hope to please most of the people for most of the time.

 

I have been so impressed with staff  members on P&O sitting with guests running through menu choices when they have indicated severe food allergies and intolerances, which is a totally different issue.

[Sonyar]

9 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

Yes, the majority of people CAN eat vegan dishes - but not all CHOOSE to do so.

Likewise, the majority of vegans CAN eat non-vegan food - but CHOOSE not to do so.

 

The only people who have no choice about boycotting certain foods are those with allergies or serious intolerances - comparing vegan requirements with somebody who is lactose intolerant is disengenious.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm certainly not comparing being Vegan to being lactose intolerant. I'm merely saying a vegetable soup or curry for example could easily be made without dairy giving everyone more choice.

[terrierjohn]

4 hours ago, zap99 said:

Well m'Lud ,we do cater for Vegans and Veggies. We do beans of green and Roast potatoes in geometrical shapes.

I guess the hexagon shape will save quite a bit in storage space as well.

[Harryjacobs]

My wife has been a vegetarian since the age of 13.  when i met her in 1989 trying to go out for a meal to cater for a vegetarian was woeful and very dificult.  Times have changed now and Vegans/Vegetarians are catered much much better in society.

As a vegetarian (not vegan) my wife has eaten extremely well onboard P&O and she is always happy at the food offered.  Compared to 1989 eating onboard now is a delight.

I am a big meat eater, I cure my own bacon, salt my own beef and make my own sausages however there are a lot of vegetarian/vegan dishes that I eat on P&O simply because they taste great!  

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Harryjacobs said:

My wife has been a vegetarian since the age of 13.  when i met her in 1989 trying to go out for a meal to cater for a vegetarian was woeful and very dificult.  Times have changed now and Vegans/Vegetarians are catered much much better in society.

As a vegetarian (not vegan) my wife has eaten extremely well onboard P&O and she is always happy at the food offered.  Compared to 1989 eating onboard now is a delight.

I am a big meat eater, I cure my own bacon, salt my own beef and make my own sausages however there are a lot of vegetarian/vegan dishes that I eat on P&O simply because they taste great!  

Since it appears that vegan/veggie offerings are here to stay on P&O, maybe we could ask passengers regularly eating these to start a stickie advising us carnivores which dishes they think we would enjoy.

I have tried only one, which to be fair was reasonably enjoyable, but reading the ingredients for many dishes is rather off putting, so I am probably missing some tasty gems.

[yorkshirephil]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

Since it appears that vegan/veggie offerings are here to stay on P&O, maybe we could ask passengers regularly eating these to start a stickie advising us carnivores which dishes they think we would enjoy.

I have tried only one, which to be fair was reasonably enjoyable, but reading the ingredients for many dishes is rather off putting, so I am probably missing some tasty gems.

I have found the veggie curries to be very good, we very rarely use meat in curries at home as the flavour is from the spices not the meat/veg base. Similar for chilli, which I now make using lentils. I am sure that other spicy dishes would be fine for us. 

[AndyMichelle]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Since it appears that vegan/veggie offerings are here to stay on P&O, maybe we could ask passengers regularly eating these to start a stickie advising us carnivores which dishes they think we would enjoy.

I have tried only one, which to be fair was reasonably enjoyable, but reading the ingredients for many dishes is rather off putting, so I am probably missing some tasty gems.

Great point John. 

I often get put off of ordering vegan food because I 'assume' I won't like it. 

I also would appreciate anyone recommending dishes they have enjoyed. 

Saying that, we have tried some of the gluten free/vegan desserts... Absolutely rank... 😂

Andy 

[nosapphire]

14 hours ago, Sonyar said:

I'm certainly not comparing being Vegan to being lactose intolerant. I'm merely saying a vegetable soup or curry for example could easily be made without dairy giving everyone more choice.

I think you will find that they ARE made without dairy for those who are lactose intolerant.

Fortunately I have no food allergies or special requirements, but I have shared enough cruise ship tables with those who have (allergies and specific dietary requirements, such as low-salt meals).

The system seems to be:

Declare the requirements when booking - and make sure it is noted on the paperwork.

Redeclare after boarding.

Speak to the MaitreD and waiters.

Each evening, the next day's menus are brought out for those with specific needs and possibilities are discussed.

The selected meals are noted for next day.

Next day, the passenger asks the waiter to confirm the meal brought to them is the meal that has been made to specific requirements.

The system is time consuming for all involved (not least the kitchen staff) but my observations are that it works very well.

I would expect that somebody on a strict vegan (not vegetarian) diet would follow the same procedure and be catered for accordingly.

Asking for a vegan meal (or a low salt meal, or a dairy free meal) AFTER the food has been prepared is naive at best.

 

[Sonyar]

1 hour ago, nosapphire said:

I think you will find that they ARE made without dairy for those who are lactose intolerant.

Fortunately I have no food allergies or special requirements, but I have shared enough cruise ship tables with those who have (allergies and specific dietary requirements, such as low-salt meals).

The system seems to be:

Declare the requirements when booking - and make sure it is noted on the paperwork.

Redeclare after boarding.

Speak to the MaitreD and waiters.

Each evening, the next day's menus are brought out for those with specific needs and possibilities are discussed.

The selected meals are noted for next day.

Next day, the passenger asks the waiter to confirm the meal brought to them is the meal that has been made to specific requirements.

The system is time consuming for all involved (not least the kitchen staff) but my observations are that it works very well.

I would expect that somebody on a strict vegan (not vegetarian) diet would follow the same procedure and be catered for accordingly.

Asking for a vegan meal (or a low salt meal, or a dairy free meal) AFTER the food has been prepared is naive at best.

 

I don't need to be advised re the system, we already do this.

I'm talking more about the buffet where vegetable dishes are routinely made with butter. For example a lentil pie vegan apart from a milk wash. The one they made specially for us was quite different, it looked a mess.Most of the plain veg and potatoes are cooked in butter.

It would be nice to have a few choices to be able to be spontaneous sometimes as most people are able to be.

[yorkshirephil]

1 hour ago, AndyMichelle said:

 

Saying that, we have tried some of the gluten free/vegan desserts... Absolutely rank... 😂

Andy 

I have also tried some of the desserts as they looked fine from the description but were tasteless. We used to have a local cafe where the lady who ran it made various vegan cakes and pastries which were delicious, so it can be done.

[Camberley]

52 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

I have also tried some of the desserts as they looked fine from the description but were tasteless. We used to have a local cafe where the lady who ran it made various vegan cakes and pastries which were delicious, so it can be done.

It can indeed be done and there are some phenomenal foods that are any combination of gluten-free, dairy-free, low sugar, low salt, suitable for vegans etc…..

 

Sadly, a combination of using cheap alternatives for the key ingredients (which are themselves often ultra-processed rubbish), and making the dishes without any real conviction or love of food, will rarely a result in a good dish! And for me, a good dish - be it suitable for vegans, meat eaters or whatever - should be able to stand up well in its own right rather than a very obvious afterthought to “tick a box”.

[nosapphire]

50 minutes ago, Sonyar said:

I don't need to be advised re the system, we already do this.

I'm talking more about the buffet where vegetable dishes are routinely made with butter. For example a lentil pie vegan apart from a milk wash. The one they made specially for us was quite different, it looked a mess.Most of the plain veg and potatoes are cooked in butter.

It would be nice to have a few choices to be able to be spontaneous sometimes as most people are able to be.

That, alas, can be one of the downsides of many lifestyle choices (not just food related) - restricting spontaneity.

The buffet will cater for the majority, and I suspect that many people would find butterless vegetables rather bland.

As vegans are still a minority customer, I think it may be some time before the larger mainstream lines consider it worthwhile to routinely offer vegan food that has not been specially requested.

It does not help that there is frequently a lot of confusion about the difference between vegan and vegetarian, so food suitable for vegetarians gets offered as vegan.

Maybe find some vegan forums - I am sure I saw one which was discussing various cruise lines and how they rated for "proper" vegan food.

 

 

 

[twotravellersLondon]

19 hours ago, Sonyar said:

Everyone can eat Vegan dishes, but not the other way round.

 

That's just not the case.

 

Not everyone can eat vegan dishes just like not everyone can eat red meat! 

 

About 3,500 people in the UK can't eat vegan food and thousands of others shouldn't. Those that can't, have diagnosed Pancreatic Exocrine Insufficiency. Many of them have dedicated NHS nutritionists and specialist dietitians, use handfuls of Creon throughout every meal/snack and have to make sure that they have real protein in every meal. PEI can develop gradually as people get older and so folks' bodies tell them to eat a bit more meat and dairy to compensate. When PEI gets worse, they end up malnourished, with blood sugar levels and even in a "near death" situation... It's then that doctors prescribe insulin and  huge loading doses of Cholecalciferol and Zinc Citrate.

 

Long before that happens, if they eat too many vegie based dishes... it can play havoc with the digestive system... make it very uncomfortable, far less predictable, less controllable and it can be and very, very embarrassing. Probably the very last thing that anyone would want to experience on a long anticipated cruise. But people affected by PEI  tend to take it all in their stride, work their way through from menu to menu and make sure that they chose the best possible combination to give themselves a balanced diet. It's not something that they're evangelical about, it's not something to create fuss and bother about... it just choosing a healthy, well-balanced diet on a cruise ship which won't detract from their holiday or from the enjoyment of others at the same table.

 

The idea that some people can't eat meat dishes applies to only about 1 person in 110,000...  (potentially about 600 people in the UK... 0.000009% or of the population) That's about how many people have alpha-gal syndrome which makes them clinically allergic to red meat. That leaves another 2.5 million vegans in the UK who can eat red meat but who chose not to. 

 

Most people reading this thread will probably never have heard of PEI although it affects five times more people than alpha-gal syndrome but they may well have cruised with folks with PEI. They may have shared a table with someone who has discreetly popped a capsule or two during the meal, left certain items untouched on the plate or left the table for a few moments. It's highly unlikely that these folk will have discussed their medical condition and even more unlikely that they will have perturbed others by complaining about the food served or lecturing others about their own particular view. 

 

We've now personally come to the point that we will, without fuss, huff or puff, decline to choose vegan/vegetarian alternatives on a cruise because it seems that only by doing so we remove the excuse of the cruise-line that these items are "in demand." We hope that voting  with our menu choices should open up the possibilities for more meat based options... exactly the stuff that we've naturally evolved over the last 6 million years to eat and naturally provides the nutritional elements that are essential for our health and well-being. Of course our choice to avoid vegetarian/vegan will leave more of that particular "lovely grub" for those who do choose it... and perhaps they will end up with bigger helpings... a win-win situation.

 

At a time when land-based vegetarian restaurants are closing, meat free and plant based products are disappearing from supermarket shelves due to lack of demand and the number of people "identifying" as vegan in the UK. has dropped by almost 20% in the last couple of years... (fall  has been greater in Europe as a whole) cruise lines should realise that pushing cheaper vegetarian and vegan options is an increasing deal breaker.

 

The point is... that cruising should be an exciting, exhilarating and enjoyable experience. The degree of comfort, the itinerary, the ambiance, the entertainment and the food should all be part of that. So what is disappointing, is when the food choice becomes more limited, vegan/vegetarian items are put on as cost-cutting measures and portions of meat are reduced... and folks, like ourselves, are just put off to such an extent that we cruise less with that line. 

 

1 hour ago, Sonyar said:

The one they made specially for us was quite different, it looked a mess.

 

And of course.... the place to discuss concerns about food, and more especially if it has been made especially to satisfy a personal request... is at the time, on the cruise and in such a way that the staff can respond positively, professionally and give the time, attention and care to resolving the issue.

 

If the buffet is a personal problem... it might be simpler, easier and more conducive to having a pleasant relaxing holiday to select another dining venue and request in advance what you would like to satisfy your personal tastes and requirements.

 

Very much hope that there's a satisfactory solution.

 

 

 

 

[Angel57]

Thank you for that very interesting post @twotravellersLondon. I’d personally never heard of PEI, but I found it most informative.

[arkac]

We are a couple with a 9 month old baby on the Iona from 20 April to the Fjords and just wanted to ask are we ok to book the specialty restaurants for 2 people? Or does the booking need to be for 3? Thanks

[Mama.nurse]

On 4/6/2024 at 3:38 PM, twotravellersLondon said:

 

That's just not the case.

 

Not everyone can eat vegan dishes just like not everyone can eat red meat! 

 

About 3,500 people in the UK can't eat vegan food and thousands of others shouldn't. Those that can't, have diagnosed Pancreatic Exocrine Insufficiency. Many of them have dedicated NHS nutritionists and specialist dietitians, use handfuls of Creon throughout every meal/snack and have to make sure that they have real protein in every meal. PEI can develop gradually as people get older and so folks' bodies tell them to eat a bit more meat and dairy to compensate. When PEI gets worse, they end up malnourished, with blood sugar levels and even in a "near death" situation... It's then that doctors prescribe insulin and  huge loading doses of Cholecalciferol and Zinc Citrate.

 

Long before that happens, if they eat too many vegie based dishes... it can play havoc with the digestive system... make it very uncomfortable, far less predictable, less controllable and it can be and very, very embarrassing. Probably the very last thing that anyone would want to experience on a long anticipated cruise. But people affected by PEI  tend to take it all in their stride, work their way through from menu to menu and make sure that they chose the best possible combination to give themselves a balanced diet. It's not something that they're evangelical about, it's not something to create fuss and bother about... it just choosing a healthy, well-balanced diet on a cruise ship which won't detract from their holiday or from the enjoyment of others at the same table.

 

The idea that some people can't eat meat dishes applies to only about 1 person in 110,000...  (potentially about 600 people in the UK... 0.000009% or of the population) That's about how many people have alpha-gal syndrome which makes them clinically allergic to red meat. That leaves another 2.5 million vegans in the UK who can eat red meat but who chose not to. 

 

Most people reading this thread will probably never have heard of PEI although it affects five times more people than alpha-gal syndrome but they may well have cruised with folks with PEI. They may have shared a table with someone who has discreetly popped a capsule or two during the meal, left certain items untouched on the plate or left the table for a few moments. It's highly unlikely that these folk will have discussed their medical condition and even more unlikely that they will have perturbed others by complaining about the food served or lecturing others about their own particular view. 

 

We've now personally come to the point that we will, without fuss, huff or puff, decline to choose vegan/vegetarian alternatives on a cruise because it seems that only by doing so we remove the excuse of the cruise-line that these items are "in demand." We hope that voting  with our menu choices should open up the possibilities for more meat based options... exactly the stuff that we've naturally evolved over the last 6 million years to eat and naturally provides the nutritional elements that are essential for our health and well-being. Of course our choice to avoid vegetarian/vegan will leave more of that particular "lovely grub" for those who do choose it... and perhaps they will end up with bigger helpings... a win-win situation.

 

At a time when land-based vegetarian restaurants are closing, meat free and plant based products are disappearing from supermarket shelves due to lack of demand and the number of people "identifying" as vegan in the UK. has dropped by almost 20% in the last couple of years... (fall  has been greater in Europe as a whole) cruise lines should realise that pushing cheaper vegetarian and vegan options is an increasing deal breaker.

 

The point is... that cruising should be an exciting, exhilarating and enjoyable experience. The degree of comfort, the itinerary, the ambiance, the entertainment and the food should all be part of that. So what is disappointing, is when the food choice becomes more limited, vegan/vegetarian items are put on as cost-cutting measures and portions of meat are reduced... and folks, like ourselves, are just put off to such an extent that we cruise less with that line. 

 

 

And of course.... the place to discuss concerns about food, and more especially if it has been made especially to satisfy a personal request... is at the time, on the cruise and in such a way that the staff can respond positively, professionally and give the time, attention and care to resolving the issue.

 

If the buffet is a personal problem... it might be simpler, easier and more conducive to having a pleasant relaxing holiday to select another dining venue and request in advance what you would like to satisfy your personal tastes and requirements.

 

Very much hope that there's a satisfactory solution.

 

 

 

 

Absolutely fantastic answer. As a nurse and as someone that has flare ups with diverticulitis. Your post is factual, informative and lots of research and evidence based practice backing up your answer. Wonderful! 

[oceanlad]

I'd say overall the vegan options on Iona were fair. 

 

Usually one (sometimes two) options in Pearl, Opal etc. Often these were very small portions, but I got a risotto one night which was a good size.

 

The likes of Sindhu and some of the other restaurants didn't have any options when we looked, also the snack bar around the SkyDome, the Quays etc.

 

The buffet always had options, although often the dishes directly below the vegan food sign were not vegan - so please pay attention to the individual allergen signs for each dish to locate everything.

 

I had a few very tasty things (the chocolate based desserts, a potato presse), some fairly confused but well-intentioned things, a fair amount of just ok plates and still far too much potato. 

 

I appreciated that there was vegan milk, yoghurt and cheese alternatives available at the breakfast buffet but would have appreciated sausages there. You can get sausages and bacon in the restaurant breakfasts but these are marked vegetarian and the brand varied from day to day (one day I think they served Quorn sausages, a few days later there was This Isn't Bacon & Sausages) so you may have to ask to ensure whether items are vegan, and it's not ideal that you can't get sausages without a formal sit down breakfast.

 

I very much appreciate the wines being clearly labelled when vegan, and while the option of a vegan burger onboard wouldn't have gone amiss, as a vegan of 8+ years I'm generally happy with what was available, can't imagine anything like this back when I started.

 

I'm not sure why vegan options onboard upset so many others though - plenty of the restaurants and areas on board don't have any vegan options at all and our cheaper meals (courgette and carrot noodles?) are certainly subsidizing your steak dinners. Probably better to pick what to get angry about with all that cholesterol going to the heart 😉

 

 

 

Edited April 9 by oceanlad

[Megabear2]

41 minutes ago, oceanlad said:

I'd say overall the vegan options on Iona were fair. 

 

Usually one (sometimes two) options in Pearl, Opal etc. Often these were very small portions, but I got a risotto one night which was a good size.

 

The likes of Sindhu and some of the other restaurants didn't have any options when we looked, also the snack bar around the SkyDome, the Quays etc.

 

The buffet always had options, although often the dishes directly below the vegan food sign were not vegan - so please pay attention to the individual allergen signs for each dish to locate everything.

 

I had a few very tasty things (the chocolate based desserts, a potato presse), some fairly confused but well-intentioned things, a fair amount of just ok plates and still far too much potato. 

 

I appreciated that there was vegan milk, yoghurt and cheese alternatives available at the breakfast buffet but would have appreciated sausages there. You can get sausages and bacon in the restaurant breakfasts but these are marked vegetarian and the brand varied from day to day (one day I think they served Quorn sausages, a few days later there was This Isn't Bacon & Sausages) so you may have to ask to ensure whether items are vegan, and it's not ideal that you can't get sausages without a formal sit down breakfast.

 

I very much appreciate the wines being clearly labelled when vegan, and while the option of a vegan burger onboard wouldn't have gone amiss, as a vegan of 8+ years I'm generally happy with what was available, can't imagine anything like this back when I started.

 

I'm not sure why vegan options onboard upset so many others though - plenty of the restaurants and areas on board don't have any vegan options at all and our cheaper meals (courgette and carrot noodles?) are certainly subsidizing your steak dinners. Probably better to pick what to get angry about with all that cholesterol going to the heart 😉

 

 

 

It isn't the vegan options alone that cause the discussion though.  It's the overall menu reducing to accommodate vegans, vegetarian all things in-between.  Basically the discussion is that choice for everyone is actually very limited compared with when vegetarian dishes were on one menu, vegan on another, various diet for medical needs on another and so on.  

 

The vegan/vegetarian bashing as people see it isn't really directed at those who eat those options.  It is a general observation everyone is now getting a very reduced choice.

 

We have a regular poster on the boards who complains regularly about a roast being offered every day. At first look you might laugh but actually she has a valid point.  It's lazy menu planning not one type of food or another that prompts the discussion.

[Windsurfboy]

P&O isn't the only line to have kept number of dishes constant,  but now have 3 vegan/vegetarian options. Cunard and Saga are similar.

 

Vegans,  vegetarians are 15% of UK population. So either that means 1 dish in 7 . Or a separate menu, as they deserve a choice , but not at the expense of the 85% meat fish eaters