Getaway Feb 1st 5-day Bermuda changed to Bahamas

[tcrandal]

54 minutes ago, cjwolfson said:

Again not suing anyone or anything. That is useless, it will go no where. The only course of action is the government. That is the only thing NCL will listen to. They folded very quickly when the CDC came down on them during Covid and were forced into all kinds of testing once they were allowed to sail again.  The government  (US government) rarely loses, it is just about getting the right people on your side.

 

 

 

 

 

Call me crazy, but I think you're overstating the advantage you have from "being on the inside" of government, you're a cog in a very complex system. Complaints are great, there are things that NCL should really be held accountable to that from recent posts I'm seeing are code violations in relation to food and egress pathways. 

 

But by golly, if you have the entire arsenal of the US government backing your cause, then bless your heart!

[cjwolfson]

Just now, tcrandal said:

 

I'm neither a stock holder nor a die hard NCL fan, as I cruise with many different companies for a variety of different reasons. I understand being disappointed, what I guess I'm not clear on is what you believe you would be entitled to if for some reason a decision was in your favor. 

 

If you're being honest with yourself ( and us), would you have decided not to go on the trip if you found out prior to the cruise that they weren't going to the port? Since weather conditions are the deciding factor here, wouldn't you want NCL to hold off as long as possible before they make the decision to cancel in hopes that conditions improve? 

 

I'm not suggesting you don't have a reasonable complaint, however I see all too many people thinking they deserve a full refund because they missed their port, yet they still enjoyed the food, drinks, entertainment and rooms onboard. Of course those same people claim to be a captive at the mercy of the ship, and if you read the terms, that is true. 

 

Stuff happens people, even the best planned trips encounter disappointment, but life is too short to focus on that and not the next adventure. If anything, go ahead and try other cruise lines if you believe NCL is not meeting expectations. 

 

I am actually a die hard NCL fan and stock holder, which makes this situation disappointing. I am not asking for a full refund. Don't think a full refund is acceptable for me personally (although if I had a wedding shower in bermuda which a group of 50 did, and NCL kidnapped my luggage, I would be asking for that). They kidnapped my luggage, but I wasn't dead set on Bermuda.. I am not even upset about the change, I am upset about the deception. Give me the choice whether I want to go on that ship on Monday.

You make a good point (what are you looking for). I am actually not looking for anything except a small future cruise credit. It just depends on the circumstances, and what you can prove. I am more upset for other people that were clearly deceived and would have canceled. A lot of people making remarks on here saying no way people cancel. I can assure you I was on that cruise, many people were canceling if they were notified.

 

I think the government coming down on them with a fine will stop this shenanigans, and make them notify about changes when they happen vs stalling until your luggage is already gone. Change happens because people make noise, otherwise it will happen over and over again. 

[cjwolfson]

9 minutes ago, tcrandal said:

 

Call me crazy, but I think you're overstating the advantage you have from "being on the inside" of government, you're a cog in a very complex system. Complaints are great, there are things that NCL should really be held accountable to that from recent posts I'm seeing are code violations in relation to food and egress pathways. 

 

But by golly, if you have the entire arsenal of the US government backing your cause, then bless your heart!

 

Again nothing to do with the advantage. You're exactly right about the cog in the system. That is why it is important to know WHO you need to actually go to. You can wait months for complaints to the wrong party (only for them 6 months later saying, you went to the wrong agency or not responding at all). That is why having conversations internally within a "very complex system" can be important. You can figure out exactly where to go, and how to do it. I still haven't figured it out, but getting there.

 

 

[tcrandal]

Didn't everyone already get an onboard credit and a small FCC? Good luck, and knock yourself out.

[sailorusvi]

Lawsuits can be good for discovery purposes.   When did they know and why did they wait to make the announcement when they did?    

 

Should they have made the announcement sooner? Not sure the answer.

 

The delay might have been they knew Bermuda was out, but not know where the alternative was until days/hours later.  Telling a 4000+ people they aren't sure where they will end up might be worse than waiting to make the announcement until they had the revised alternative lined up.

 

The situation sucks, but waiting until you had all the answers sometimes is the better course of action.  

 

All speculation.  They could be a-holes and decide to wait till the last minute so people "couldn't" cancel.  Discover could provide some answers, but not necessarily ones people would agree on.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by sailorusvi

[EllieinNJ]

Our group on FB knew about it unofficially on Tuesday when someone got an email from their private excursion saying it was cancelled because the ship was not stopping in Bermuda.  Would I have cancelled?  No.  Disappointed? Yes. I did discover that I probably would not like a transatlantic or transpacific with five or more sea days.  I have another cruise on another cruise line already booked for next February out of NY.  Would I cancel because of this cruise?  No way.  If we miss ports I understand it happens that time of year.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Having discovered in November that I did not like 5 straight sea days on a transatlantic, I am not sure what I would have chosen if I had the option on the day before of:

 A) Cancel and get 75% of my fare back under NCLs travel protection plan (I think that would have been an option).

 B) Go understanding I was getting 20% of my fare as FCC and $200 OBC.

 

I think what NCL offered was fair and have said so and probably would have chosen B, but also think the most customer friendly option would have been to give people information as soon as possible to make informed decisions. By the time you are in line at the port, there really isn't much of a choice to be made. 

 

As noted, they may not have been able to figure out all the details prior to departure morning, so will give them some benefit of the doubt here.

[cjwolfson]

1 hour ago, sailorusvi said:

Lawsuits can be good for discovery purposes.   When did they know and why did they wait to make the announcement when they did?    

 

Should they have made the announcement sooner? Not sure the answer.

 

The delay might have been they knew Bermuda was out, but not know where the alternative was until days/hours later.  Telling a 4000+ people they aren't sure where they will end up might be worse than waiting to make the announcement until they had the revised alternative lined up.

 

The situation sucks, but waiting until you had all the answers sometimes is the better course of action.  

 

All speculation.  They could be a-holes and decide to wait till the last minute so people "couldn't" cancel.  Discover could provide some answers, but not necessarily ones people would agree on.

 

 

No use on the lawsuit. As I mentioned lawsuits go no where and cost a lot of money. I personally won't be forking up that type of money for any type of discovery. Saying that government complaints can do discovery for you without paying a dime (well you paid through your tax dollars). Companies also usually comply with government requests vs discovery requests (unless it is court ordered which can take years). They know very well what can happen without complying...

[kitkat343]

23 hours ago, cjwolfson said:

This was my 10+ cruise with NCL and arguably the worst. There were lines, bar craziness, and long waits for dinner. I will echo some others as the staff did what they could. It wasn’t their fault as they are over worked, and this trip was extremely tough for them. The cruise to no where as I put it. 5 “sea” days is hard for the staff, but I will say NCL did it to themselves. The Jones Act forced them to go to the Bahamas, so I cannot blame that for that. They had to go to an international location, so it was either Canada or the Bahamas. 
 

My complaint has to do with NCL communication. NCL knew they were changing the port on Monday. I know that because the excursion groups were notified on Monday. That meant NCL had 48 hours to alert everyone. They didn’t because of course they wanted everyone to show up. They knew any type of communication would lead to mass cancellation. To me, that is negligence at the very least. It crosses the line in legal territory according to an attorney on the ship. What makes matters worse is, they accepted your luggage and still didn’t tell you. They basically held your property hostage, and said well we are sorry once you got to the check-in line. You had two choices, get your luggage in 5 days, or get on the ship… They knew everyone would get on the ship.

 

I feel as if a department of transportation complaint is warranted. I am still debating whether to submit or not, but leaning towards yes. We actually have a DOT now that handles these situations and takes action. The specific agency that handles these cruise complaints is the federal marine commission (which falls under the department of transportation). If you would like to file here you go:https://www.fmc.gov/resources-services/filing-a-formal-complaint/

 

NCL has no choice but to respond to them, but to us they probably say “we are sorry” in 15 business days. 

On their January 8th Getaway cruise (and seriously is this ship cursed - there were problems with the sailing before ours also) they dropped the Dominican Republic and the morning in Antigua in December after final payment to help the environment.  They refused my request to cancel, but more significantly also continued marketing and selling the cruise to people as visiting the Dominican Republic after it was cancelled.  People who booked directly through NCL after the port had been dropped weren't told the itinerary had changed, and only found out on facebook.  

Edited February 10, 2023 by kitkat343

[cjwolfson]

12 hours ago, kitkat343 said:

On their January 8th Getaway cruise (and seriously is this ship cursed - there were problems with the sailing before ours also) they dropped the Dominican Republic and the morning in Antigua in December after final payment to help the environment.  They refused my request to cancel, but more significantly also continued marketing and selling the cruise to people as visiting the Dominican Republic after it was cancelled.  People who booked directly through NCL after the port had been dropped weren't told the itinerary had changed, and only found out on facebook.  

So you're saying they continued to market something AFTER they already canceled that trip? Unfortunately, I think they are in the right to refuse your request to cancel. However, your latter point smells like a pattern.

[kylenyc]

On 2/9/2023 at 8:27 AM, PATRLR said:

We've done short 4 day cruises out of Florida in the past and have decided never again.  The clientele and the vibe is much different than a full week cruise.  It's less expensive to get on, less days off from work, especially for Floridians who don't have to travel.  In our opinion it's predominately a party crowd on a cheap getaway and it tends to make everything seem much more crowded and hectic.  Just our observation.

I wonder if this 5 day out of New York was a similar clientele and vibe?  That could be part of the reason for the negative reviews, particularly the comments about crowds and such. 

I did not get any "party crowd" "spring break" vibe. All the guests I encountered were surprising patient and calm. As a New Yorker, I'm surprised that a ship full of mostly NYers was so poised in the face of long waits and subpar bar and restaurant service.

 

The negative reviews IMO are due to poor staff to guest ratio and a staff that was overwhelmed, under-trained or inexperienced. Bar, restaurant, room service, and venues were improperly staffed during peak hours. The staff were professional. I put the blame solely on NCL management for improper staffing and/or overbooking the ship repeatedly.

 

I'll be cancelling or have cancelled all remaining (4) 2023 NCL cruises except one I'm bring my parents on. My mom's disabled in a wheelchair and unfortunately this is a still the most feasible type of vacation. I'll be shopping for a replacement to this cruise too with other cruise lines.

Edited February 10, 2023 by kylenyc

[Bonobochick]

19 hours ago, kitkat343 said:

more significantly also continued marketing and selling the cruise to people as visiting the Dominican Republic after it was cancelled.  People who booked directly through NCL after the port had been dropped weren't told the itinerary had changed, and only found out on facebook.  

 

I was on the Jan 8th cruise and booked it maybe 8 days before departure and it was being marketed as a cruise to DR when I bought it until at least right before sail date (I was logging in to check if my guarantee room had been assigned then for edocs). I never did get an email with not only NCL updating with the news about dropping DR for another sea day but also the change in Antigua port hours that ended up putting the kibosh on my NCL prepaid excursion. I found out on here going through roll call the like a few days later after booking that some people got an alert about DR port day being canceled despite it still being marketed as a cruise to DR. 

[cjwolfson]

On 2/10/2023 at 3:06 PM, Bonobochick said:

 

I was on the Jan 8th cruise and booked it maybe 8 days before departure and it was being marketed as a cruise to DR when I bought it until at least right before sail date (I was logging in to check if my guarantee room had been assigned then for edocs). I never did get an email with not only NCL updating with the news about dropping DR for another sea day but also the change in Antigua port hours that ended up putting the kibosh on my NCL prepaid excursion. I found out on here going through roll call the like a few days later after booking that some people got an alert about DR port day being canceled despite it still being marketed as a cruise to DR. 

 

I wanted to update you. If it makes you feel better, I was alerted today that the FTC has opened a case against NCL for deception business practices. From my understanding it is an overall review, and not just this cruise (as in the Feb 1st cruise).  

Edited February 15, 2023 by cjwolfson

[cjwolfson]

On 2/9/2023 at 12:32 PM, tcrandal said:

 

Call me crazy, but I think you're overstating the advantage you have from "being on the inside" of government, you're a cog in a very complex system. Complaints are great, there are things that NCL should really be held accountable to that from recent posts I'm seeing are code violations in relation to food and egress pathways. 

 

But by golly, if you have the entire arsenal of the US government backing your cause, then bless your heart!

 

 

Hello everybody, I wanted to give everyone an update to my FTC complaint I filed against NCL. As I mentioned before, these things take time. I assured everyone that eventually it would get looked at. Indeed it was, and I am happy with the result.

 

NCL has agreed to settle this matter with the FTC and the NY AG office. They agree that their practices were indeed "not up to standard". They did not legally say they were at fault as per the settlement nor do they agree they were acting in deceptive behaviors. Of course they were, but they are never going to say they were. This is all typical legal jumbo when a company settles with the gov. The airlines do it all the time, and just write a check. NCL was fined 600,000 dollars as per the settlement and agreed to change their practices. As I mentioned before, no one can defeat the power of the federal government. It won't mean we (the consumer) see any money, but I can assure you NCL will be changing the way they do things. That was the whole point of complaint, and I am glad to see it ending up in the "people's" favor.

 

[GeezerCouple]

2 hours ago, cjwolfson said:

 

 

Hello everybody, I wanted to give everyone an update to my FTC complaint I filed against NCL. As I mentioned before, these things take time. I assured everyone that eventually it would get looked at. Indeed it was, and I am happy with the result.

 

NCL has agreed to settle this matter with the FTC and the NY AG office. They agree that their practices were indeed "not up to standard". They did not legally say they were at fault as per the settlement nor do they agree they were acting in deceptive behaviors. Of course they were, but they are never going to say they were. This is all typical legal jumbo when a company settles with the gov. The airlines do it all the time, and just write a check. NCL was fined 600,000 dollars as per the settlement and agreed to change their practices. As I mentioned before, no one can defeat the power of the federal government. It won't mean we (the consumer) see any money, but I can assure you NCL will be changing the way they do things. That was the whole point of complaint, and I am glad to see it ending up in the "people's" favor.

 

Nice!

 

Perhaps you could post this on a more general CC subforum (Ask a Cruise Question? or?).

NCL isn't the only cruiseline where this has been a problem.

Many thanks!

ETA:  I should add that we have no quarrel when weather or other last minute or short notice issues interfere.  However, there are times when the local excursion providers knew far in advance that the itinerary had changed, but the passengers weren't notified until after final payment (aka full penalty).  *That* is not okay!

 

GC

Edited September 19, 2023 by GeezerCouple

[cruiseny4life]

14 hours ago, cjwolfson said:

 

 

Hello everybody, I wanted to give everyone an update to my FTC complaint I filed against NCL. As I mentioned before, these things take time. I assured everyone that eventually it would get looked at. Indeed it was, and I am happy with the result.

 

NCL has agreed to settle this matter with the FTC and the NY AG office. They agree that their practices were indeed "not up to standard". They did not legally say they were at fault as per the settlement nor do they agree they were acting in deceptive behaviors. Of course they were, but they are never going to say they were. This is all typical legal jumbo when a company settles with the gov. The airlines do it all the time, and just write a check. NCL was fined 600,000 dollars as per the settlement and agreed to change their practices. As I mentioned before, no one can defeat the power of the federal government. It won't mean we (the consumer) see any money, but I can assure you NCL will be changing the way they do things. That was the whole point of complaint, and I am glad to see it ending up in the "people's" favor.

 

Well that's good news! Are you telling us confidential information or is there a news source for this? Agency report? I looked at a violation tracker, but don't see this one listed: https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/norwegian-cruise-line.

 

Thanks, I'd love to read the more in-depth (boring) details. 

[cjwolfson]

50 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Well that's good news! Are you telling us confidential information or is there a news source for this? Agency report? I looked at a violation tracker, but don't see this one listed: https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/norwegian-cruise-line.

 

Thanks, I'd love to read the more in-depth (boring) details. 

The site you're referencing will not have this. It isn't confidential, but you will need to FOIA request it. FTC doesn't always disclose violations unless they are FOIA requested. I can work you through that if you would like.