Getaway Feb 1st 5-day Bermuda changed to Bahamas

[Ozmodiar]

I actually liked the idea of going to Bermuda now because I was most interested in things like the Bermuda history museum, the caves, the aquarium, and wandering a bit - so being there when it was less touristy and crowded was ideal, and if it wasn't going to be beach weather I didn't care as I wouldn't do that anyway. So off-season Bermuda had a lot of appeal to me.

 

Overall, this was a hard cruise to judge the ship on I feel. I suspect any of the megaships at full capacity will feel crowded on sea days when the outdoor activities are not available or appealing - just too many folks in limited space - and it just became much more noticeable given it was 4 straight days of essentially that. I also wonder about the impact on the crew, who naturally get a bit of a respite when the passengers are ashore - not time off but just less people to serve - having to deal with "busy" times for 4 straight days. In particular I could see this impacting the MDRs, which I used more in these four days than I would on most 14-day cruises with a lot of ports. 

[Mlake09]

19 minutes ago, Ozmodiar said:

 

I certainly knew Bermuda at this time of year was riskier, but it should be noted that I think the ship could have gotten there and docked no problem a day or two earlier or later.

 

Just have to ask, what’s your background with captaining cruise ships? 
 

Sorry, I couldn’t resist! I do always appreciate Cheng for his insight into the industry and don’t mean to make light if you actually have a maritime background too!

[Ozmodiar]

Just now, Mlake09 said:

Just have to ask, what’s your background with captaining cruise ships? 
 

Sorry, I couldn’t resist! I do always appreciate Cheng for his insight into the industry and don’t mean to make light if you actually have a maritime background too!

That's a fair point - I was just looking at the weather forecasts, from what I could find the wind was going to be much worse the days we needed to dock (consistent 25 to 30, with gusts in the high 40s, and looking at times to be perpendicular to the dock) than before or after, and the seas getting to the island reflected that stormier weather. So I chalked that up to bad luck.

 

If someone can point out that you can almost never dock in February that would be helpful to know, but things seemed much calmer on either side of the scheduled days. I don't know what the "odds" are for smooth seas and docking in February - is it possible 90% of the time, 10% of the time? I would think NCL would know better than try at all in Bermuda if the odds are truly bad.

[cjwolfson]

This was my 10+ cruise with NCL and arguably the worst. There were lines, bar craziness, and long waits for dinner. I will echo some others as the staff did what they could. It wasn’t their fault as they are over worked, and this trip was extremely tough for them. The cruise to no where as I put it. 5 “sea” days is hard for the staff, but I will say NCL did it to themselves. The Jones Act forced them to go to the Bahamas, so I cannot blame that for that. They had to go to an international location, so it was either Canada or the Bahamas. 
 

My complaint has to do with NCL communication. NCL knew they were changing the port on Monday. I know that because the excursion groups were notified on Monday. That meant NCL had 48 hours to alert everyone. They didn’t because of course they wanted everyone to show up. They knew any type of communication would lead to mass cancellation. To me, that is negligence at the very least. It crosses the line in legal territory according to an attorney on the ship. What makes matters worse is, they accepted your luggage and still didn’t tell you. They basically held your property hostage, and said well we are sorry once you got to the check-in line. You had two choices, get your luggage in 5 days, or get on the ship… They knew everyone would get on the ship.

 

I feel as if a department of transportation complaint is warranted. I am still debating whether to submit or not, but leaning towards yes. We actually have a DOT now that handles these situations and takes action. The specific agency that handles these cruise complaints is the federal marine commission (which falls under the department of transportation). If you would like to file here you go:https://www.fmc.gov/resources-services/filing-a-formal-complaint/

 

NCL has no choice but to respond to them, but to us they probably say “we are sorry” in 15 business days. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by cjwolfson

[mking8288]

5 hours ago, Bonobochick said:

My biggest complaint truly were the bad logistics exacerbated by delays for the first several ports. I was fine about missing DR cause we got a longer stay in St. Thomas, which was nice. TLDR: there's definitely a decline in service which has been made worse by the full ships. 

Maybe, the Getaway has a slight engine problem as it's been rumored previously - as the ship was never going faster than 21 knots, 20.5 to 20.6 knots were the top speed - and, we've been on the BA, Escape, and Joy (and, the GA last March) to know, that, under favorable conditions with maritime weather on their tail vs. headwind pushing against - ship is capable of doing better than 19 to 20 knots on average ... Clearly, unless the instrumented readings of the display were not calibrated or inaccurate, it wasn't truly going as fast as she could - sail and sustain, oh dear ... that's the buzz & tagline these days. 

 

Hence, we're often late reaching the ports or barely just made it there on time, and the extra time needed to get the ships cleared & gangways secured, etc. - made for, as we are know, miserable lines & crowds gathering at the gangway, backing up on the stairs up from Deck 4 up to 6 and 7 - not sure if that's from the independent ones or NCL shorex tours already "assembled" to rush, as some of the port times were pretty short ... including San Juan and Amber Cove, a large # of folks were very, very late returning (by 30 to 45 minutes) with beach towels & other bags in tow, walking & chilling, not even walking faster - obviously not afraid of being abandoned or left behind.  Captain had blasted the loud air horn at least 4 or maybe 5 times beyond the all abroad time of 3:30 - we didn't leave until 4:15 p.m.

 

It was a good thing that we chose to not book anything in advance, not even with private or local operators - there're plenty of inexpensive choices once we step off the ship & go past the secured area to haggle & negotiate.  

 

4 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

@mking8288 ... wondering if they watered down the buffet (I know...no more late night snacks.

To be fair, we sailed NCL expecting to see cutbacks, annoying to see that in quantity & quality of the MDR food AND in some of the specialty, the sides (if any) are extremely petite & small ... except they were more generous on the last 2 sea days, for some reasons and we even joked with the servers about "are we getting the 2 for 1 specials today" for leaving soon, LOL.  The buffet, as a whole, didn't seemed to see cutbacks  with the variety, maybe fewer Indian / curry dishes than usual - perhaps it has to do with the onboard demographics for "our" 12 nights and lots of special meals pre-ordered, which also didn't help with staffing level ...  There're lots of variety in the buffet, plenty of meat & there were mostly pork & chicken at the carving stations - really did not recall seeing prime ribs night or BBQ nights (those are pricey on a pound-for-pound basis).  It seemed like you can find only find cookies at night in the mini station at the casino corner, semi-hidden away (no wings or skewers, etc. anymore there, our CAS friends said)   It's hard for the average cruisers to get hungry on the ship - the portion sizes of the dessert were small, laughingly tiny - the "flan" was about a tablespoon's worth inside a bowl on a plate. 

1 hour ago, cjwolfson said:

... NCL knew they were changing the port on Monday. I know that because the excursion groups were notified on Monday. That meant NCL had 48 hours to alert everyone. They didn’t because of course they wanted everyone to show up. They knew any type of communication would lead to mass cancellation ... 

We learned, indirectly, thanks to another CC asking and she wanted me to put out an alert to all on CC - "the next sailing" will see 4,700 souls boarding - if the count was trimmed to 4,570 ... Then, perhaps 130 guests used their CFAR clause to not board the cruise to almost nowhere & just didn't bother to get there at all ??   

 

As a matter of fact, I mentioned this on our "Semi-Live" that Tuesday evening, onboard staff had no ideas or claimed they are still going to Bermuda.  Wednesday morning, after breakfast & while the ship was preparing to open the gangways for the express walk-off (and, also had a # of B2B staying on the ship) - walked from Taste over to Guest Services and asked again, the desk person insisted nothing has changed, that they had no information about sailing to Nassau, Bahamas instead, and all is well.  Isn't that the art of deception - too bad, I didn't "recorded" the conversation and without explicit consent.  

 

@EllieinNJ - Fwd lines converging toward the Box Office or theater were apparently for the masses, plus some of the elevators were on bypass mode for escorted VIP's.  AFT lines, which many were not told or informed, were used for accessible and others, including priority disembarkation - we're supposed to receive info about it and how to use it ... which never happened last week, but - suffice to say, we managed to join that shorter line and once it was moving, took maybe 10 minutes from the middle atrium at the casino to the security podium near Tropicana to exit the ship, and it was a much shorter walk for the gangway or maybe 20 steps to the entrance for the terminal's escalators & elevator.   Absolutely agreed that the mid-sized ships like the Gem, Dawn, Jewel, and Star, etc. are easier and more to our liking too, we don't need or want the extra bells & whistles - especially when it looks like ships are returning surely to 110% to 115% doubled occupancy levels again.  

 

Oddly enough, Getaway is repeating her 12 nights again and it's been radio silence since they left - maybe, no news is good news onboard - or, just wait until they docked in San Juan tomorrow afternoon.  

[PistolPete13]

37 minutes ago, mking8288 said:

 

Oddly enough, Getaway is repeating her 12 nights again and it's been radio silence since they left - maybe, no news is good news onboard - or, just wait until they docked in San Juan tomorrow afternoon.  

Yes, after all the challenges of this sailing, I'm very curious on how the current trip is going.  The feedback on this sailing on the other face board has been very negative overall.

[njhorseman]

4 hours ago, cjwolfson said:

This was my 10+ cruise with NCL and arguably the worst. There were lines, bar craziness, and long waits for dinner. I will echo some others as the staff did what they could. It wasn’t their fault as they are over worked, and this trip was extremely tough for them. The cruise to no where as I put it. 5 “sea” days is hard for the staff, but I will say NCL did it to themselves. The Jones Act forced them to go to the Bahamas, so I cannot blame that for that. They had to go to an international location, so it was either Canada or the Bahamas. 
 

My complaint has to do with NCL communication. NCL knew they were changing the port on Monday. I know that because the excursion groups were notified on Monday. That meant NCL had 48 hours to alert everyone. They didn’t because of course they wanted everyone to show up. They knew any type of communication would lead to mass cancellation. To me, that is negligence at the very least. It crosses the line in legal territory according to an attorney on the ship. What makes matters worse is, they accepted your luggage and still didn’t tell you. They basically held your property hostage, and said well we are sorry once you got to the check-in line. You had two choices, get your luggage in 5 days, or get on the ship… They knew everyone would get on the ship.

 

I feel as if a department of transportation complaint is warranted. I am still debating whether to submit or not, but leaning towards yes. We actually have a DOT now that handles these situations and takes action. The specific agency that handles these cruise complaints is the federal marine commission (which falls under the department of transportation). If you would like to file here you go:https://www.fmc.gov/resources-services/filing-a-formal-complaint/

 

NCL has no choice but to respond to them, but to us they probably say “we are sorry” in 15 business days. 

 

Sorry you were so disappointed in your cruise. I'm sure many others had similarly disappointing experiences.

 

Having said that  there isn't a lot you can do about it other than opt to not cruise with NCL in the future.

 

It would help if you and the mystery "attorney" you claim to have spoken to had read NCL's Guest Ticket Contract, which you agreed to when you paid for your cruise and completed your online check in. Particularly note the following provision that permits a change of itinerary for any reason.

 

"(c) Itinerary Deviation: The Guest agrees that the Carrier has the sole discretion and liberty to direct the movements of the vessel, including the rights to: proceed without pilots and tow, and assist other vessels in all situations; deviate from the purchased voyage or the normal course for any purpose, including, without limitation, the health and safety in the interest of Guests or of the vessel (including the outbreak of any communicable disease), or to save life or property; put in at any unscheduled or unadvertised port; cancel any scheduled call at any port for any reason and at any time before, during or after sailing of the vessel; omit, advance or delay landing at any scheduled or advertised port; return to port of embarkation or to any port previously visited if the Carrier deems it prudent to do so; substitute another vessel or port(s) of call without prior notice and without incurring any liability to the Guest on account thereof for any loss, damage or delay whatsoever, whether consequential or otherwise, except as may be required by law."

 

As to your statement "They knew any type of communication would lead to mass cancellation" please tell me what good would canceling your cruise in the days immediately preceding departure have done since you would have been subject to a 100% cancellation penalty.

 

Finally, before you spend a lot of time trying to file a compliant with the FMC, you might want to know what type of action the FMC can take. In particular pay close attention to what I've highlighted below in red . 

https://www.fmc.gov/resources-services/cruise-passenger-assistance/

CRUISE SERVICE ISSUES

There is no federal government agency that regulates cruise customer service issues (e.g. itinerary changes, passenger cancellations, cabin concerns, etc.). Moreover, the Commission has limited jurisdiction over cruise lines (pursuant to 46 U.S.C. §§ 44102 – 44103) that embark passengers at locations in the U.S.:

• The Commission cannot order a cruise line to cancel a voyage or to stop operating due to the outbreak of a disease, such as coronavirus
• The Commission cannot order a cruise line to make a refund to a passenger when a passenger decides not to travel
• Passengers should always carefully read their ticket contract, which states the cruise line’s obligations with respect to cancelled cruises and changes in itinerary.

The Commission’s Office of Consumer Affairs & Dispute Resolution Services (CADRS) assists passengers that boarded a passenger vessel at a U.S. port and purchased their ticket directly from the cruise line. CADRS assistance in these matters is a voluntary process. The Commission does not have statutory authority to compel cruise lines to take any particular action to address complaints.

Individuals seeking the assistance of CADRS should provide the following information: a brief description of the complaint; the booking confirmation; copy of the ticket contract and insurance policy; any correspondence the complainant has had with the cruise line; and your contact information. To file a request for assistance please send an e-mail to: complaints@fmc.gov.

 

[cjwolfson]

5 hours ago, njhorseman said:

 

Sorry you were so disappointed in your cruise. I'm sure many others had similarly disappointing experiences.

 

Having said that  there isn't a lot you can do about it other than opt to not cruise with NCL in the future.

 

It would help if you and the mystery "attorney" you claim to have spoken to had read NCL's Guest Ticket Contract, which you agreed to when you paid for your cruise and completed your online check in. Particularly note the following provision that permits a change of itinerary for any reason.

 

"(c) Itinerary Deviation: The Guest agrees that the Carrier has the sole discretion and liberty to direct the movements of the vessel, including the rights to: proceed without pilots and tow, and assist other vessels in all situations; deviate from the purchased voyage or the normal course for any purpose, including, without limitation, the health and safety in the interest of Guests or of the vessel (including the outbreak of any communicable disease), or to save life or property; put in at any unscheduled or unadvertised port; cancel any scheduled call at any port for any reason and at any time before, during or after sailing of the vessel; omit, advance or delay landing at any scheduled or advertised port; return to port of embarkation or to any port previously visited if the Carrier deems it prudent to do so; substitute another vessel or port(s) of call without prior notice and without incurring any liability to the Guest on account thereof for any loss, damage or delay whatsoever, whether consequential or otherwise, except as may be required by law."

 

As to your statement "They knew any type of communication would lead to mass cancellation" please tell me what good would canceling your cruise in the days immediately preceding departure have done since you would have been subject to a 100% cancellation penalty.

 

Finally, before you spend a lot of time trying to file a compliant with the FMC, you might want to know what type of action the FMC can take. In particular pay close attention to what I've highlighted below in red . 

https://www.fmc.gov/resources-services/cruise-passenger-assistance/

CRUISE SERVICE ISSUES

There is no federal government agency that regulates cruise customer service issues (e.g. itinerary changes, passenger cancellations, cabin concerns, etc.). Moreover, the Commission has limited jurisdiction over cruise lines (pursuant to 46 U.S.C. §§ 44102 – 44103) that embark passengers at locations in the U.S.:

• The Commission cannot order a cruise line to cancel a voyage or to stop operating due to the outbreak of a disease, such as coronavirus
• The Commission cannot order a cruise line to make a refund to a passenger when a passenger decides not to travel
• Passengers should always carefully read their ticket contract, which states the cruise line’s obligations with respect to cancelled cruises and changes in itinerary.

The Commission’s Office of Consumer Affairs & Dispute Resolution Services (CADRS) assists passengers that boarded a passenger vessel at a U.S. port and purchased their ticket directly from the cruise line. CADRS assistance in these matters is a voluntary process. The Commission does not have statutory authority to compel cruise lines to take any particular action to address complaints.

Individuals seeking the assistance of CADRS should provide the following information: a brief description of the complaint; the booking confirmation; copy of the ticket contract and insurance policy; any correspondence the complainant has had with the cruise line; and your contact information. To file a request for assistance please send an e-mail to: complaints@fmc.gov.

 

 I am not arguing that they can cancel for any reason. They have the right to cancel for any reason at any time. Well there are tons of people celebrating things in Bermuda. I saw huge groups of celebrating anniversary’s in Bermuda. I saw people having wedding showers in Bermuda. I spoke to tons of people 50% said they would have canceled and called the CC company,

 

Saying that, you can sue for negligence at any time per the attorney. You see that statement that says “except when required by law”. You know how airlines send out communication when your trip changes immediately when they find out. It is to avoid negligent lawsuits…If you can prove that a company was negligent and purposely did something negligent that isn’t legal under federal law and NY law. Deception practices are not legal. It is pretty easy to see that was the case here. If they made the decision on Wednesday morning then you’re right, but they didn’t. As far as mass cancellation goes, anyone with a CC can get their money back. I don’t care what the contract says. I know because the CC company isn’t going to buy the NCL excuse here. If you dispute the charges, you will get at least some of your money back on their terms. 
 

As far as government action. As a federal employee myself, I don’t care what it says on their website. Enough complaints and action will be taken. The government acts when mass people are upset. I am taking steps internally to ensure this gets looked at based on negligence business practice claims. It may mean the FTC is the correct government agency (due to them handling business practices), but I am working on that and consulting other colleagues. 
 

Have a great day! 

[Mlake09]

13 hours ago, Ozmodiar said:

That's a fair point - I was just looking at the weather forecasts, from what I could find the wind was going to be much worse the days we needed to dock (consistent 25 to 30, with gusts in the high 40s, and looking at times to be perpendicular to the dock) than before or after, and the seas getting to the island reflected that stormier weather. So I chalked that up to bad luck.

 

If someone can point out that you can almost never dock in February that would be helpful to know, but things seemed much calmer on either side of the scheduled days. I don't know what the "odds" are for smooth seas and docking in February - is it possible 90% of the time, 10% of the time? I would think NCL would know better than try at all in Bermuda if the odds are truly bad.

Bermuda is not typically a winter cruise destination. It’s new with COVID. 

I did the 5 day NYC to Bermuda trip a few weeks ago on January 11th, on the Gem. We were supposed to be on Bermuda for two days, but due to predicted stormy weather, we only stayed on the island for 6 hours. The weather on the island was great but windy (about 68 degrees and sunny). When we got back on board the pools had already been drained in anticipation of the storm, and we noticed other precautions as well (top deck chairs all removed, etc). That night we hit the weather: gale force winds, sea waves over 25 feet, and pouring rain. All outside activities and spaces were closed, including the hot tubs. The sea days back were challenging, especially because everyone had to be inside, and because the wind caused intense rocking of the ship. Many people were sick and didn’t make it to the vomit bags in time. It was definitely an experience. Personally, I think I would have preferred the cruise you took, which had nicer weather and the option to be outside or use the pools, etc.

[Rfemle]

I was on this cruise, the weather is the weather no matter where or when, it will affect your cruise.  I have taken 8 NCL cruises half Haven rooms and other half various rooms, we understand and have seen all sorts of things affect the cruise.  Generally we are happy with how NCL has handled the situation. I was very surprised they were giving as much as they did, but I also thought at first that they were giving us 20% off FC, but reread and it says 20% credit of current cruise fare towards a FC, still not bad but not great.  So I was a little let down due to my own error of breezing through the letter.  I was also surprised when I looked at the points I earned for this cruise, it was suppose to be double and I actually received triple points, pleasant surprise.  Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised when the FCC shows up.  All in all not a bad cruise, relaxed in Thermal suite everyday and did not have to cook or clean for ourselves, food was generally good.

Two issues going on with NCL and other cruise lines as well as all markets, supply chain and staffing shortages.  Add to this the high level of pent up demand for cruising/vacations and you see a lower level of service and offerings as compared to pre pandemic times.  It also seems that the cruise lines took a big hit with no economic help during the pandemic, so they are looking for all the business they can get, thus the current state of cruising.

I hope that cruising can get back to pre pandemic status, but with many things lost due to a down turn in the economy, they are slow to return or never do.

In the mean time we will have to adjust our vacationing to the current status based on information from sites such as this.  I still believe cruising is the best vacation there is, but maybe we need to look at inclusive resorts or staycations/close to home resorts as cruising pluses over those have eroded.  Maybe for the short term we will look at more suite options to maintain the level of vacation we have become use to, but we do not want to play into the scheme of the nickel/dime upcharge push.  We will look at staff to cruiser ratios if possible as we would like to see cruiselines limit cruiser levels based on staff for a pleasent cruise experience.  Over extending staff maybe a short term gain at the expense of long term cruiser loyalty, but sometimes cruisers have a short memory due to the excitement of cruising, we are included in this.

As the saying goes "it is what it is" but I hope we cruisers become more savy and more statistics such as more staff to cruiser ratios, supply chain levels etc are available.

Right now we use these and other sites to draw details out from others experiences to set ourselves up for successful vacation matches while making sure our expectation level is accurate.

Thank you to all for insight and details related to cruising/vacations.

 

[PATRLR]

We've done short 4 day cruises out of Florida in the past and have decided never again.  The clientele and the vibe is much different than a full week cruise.  It's less expensive to get on, less days off from work, especially for Floridians who don't have to travel.  In our opinion it's predominately a party crowd on a cheap getaway and it tends to make everything seem much more crowded and hectic.  Just our observation.

I wonder if this 5 day out of New York was a similar clientele and vibe?  That could be part of the reason for the negative reviews, particularly the comments about crowds and such. 

[cruiseny4life]

2 hours ago, cjwolfson said:

Saying that, you can sue for negligence at any time per the attorney. You see that statement that says “except when required by law”. You know how airlines send out communication when your trip changes immediately when they find out. It is to avoid negligent lawsuits…If you can prove that a company was negligent and purposely did something negligent that isn’t legal under federal law and NY law. Deception practices are not legal. It is pretty easy to see that was the case here. If they made the decision on Wednesday morning then you’re right, but they didn’t. As far as mass cancellation goes, anyone with a CC can get their money back. I don’t care what the contract says. I know because the CC company isn’t going to buy the NCL excuse here. If you dispute the charges, you will get at least some of your money back on their terms. 

First, let me say good luck. I hope the credit card company gets you some of your money back. I don't think you'll see anything from your efforts, but seriously, I hope you do.

 

Secondly, everything you mentioned above is about legality. If you go that route, and have a lawyer that takes up your case, I hope you don't lose your shirts. I think you will. Unfortunately, the terms and conditions are pretty clear and you're dealing with a Bahamian corporation, not an American one. See that Bahamian courtesy flag on the aft of the ship.  Yes, we were in the Bahamas, but the ship is also registered in the Bahamas. 

 

 

What you're really discussing are the ethics and morals of a company as I truly don't think you'll receive one penny from NCL, even if you were to take them to court. The leadership at NCL(H) has proven, time and again, they have no morals, no ethics, no idea of what is right and wrong. The almighty dollar is their only concern. 

Should they have sent you the letter that was posted before embarkation to your email? Yes. Would it really have changed you sailing, or not? I highly doubt most would have cancelled as even with CFAR products, you'd only receive 50ish% back. 

 

BTW, the airlines are regulated by the FAA and DOT. Cruise lines are not regulated, except for safety standards per the USCG. 

[njhorseman]

3 hours ago, cjwolfson said:

 I am not arguing that they can cancel for any reason. They have the right to cancel for any reason at any time. Well there are tons of people celebrating things in Bermuda. I saw huge groups of celebrating anniversary’s in Bermuda. I saw people having wedding showers in Bermuda. I spoke to tons of people 50% said they would have canceled and called the CC company,

 

Saying that, you can sue for negligence at any time per the attorney. You see that statement that says “except when required by law”. You know how airlines send out communication when your trip changes immediately when they find out. It is to avoid negligent lawsuits…If you can prove that a company was negligent and purposely did something negligent that isn’t legal under federal law and NY law. Deception practices are not legal. It is pretty easy to see that was the case here. If they made the decision on Wednesday morning then you’re right, but they didn’t. As far as mass cancellation goes, anyone with a CC can get their money back. I don’t care what the contract says. I know because the CC company isn’t going to buy the NCL excuse here. If you dispute the charges, you will get at least some of your money back on their terms. 
 

As far as government action. As a federal employee myself, I don’t care what it says on their website. Enough complaints and action will be taken. The government acts when mass people are upset. I am taking steps internally to ensure this gets looked at based on negligence business practice claims. It may mean the FTC is the correct government agency (due to them handling business practices), but I am working on that and consulting other colleagues. 
 

Have a great day! 

Your cruise wasn't cancelled, the itinerary was changed, and there's a world of difference between the two. Once you understand that you may change your mind about spending too much time on pursuing legal or governmental action.

 

Good luck .

 

[cjwolfson]

13 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

First, let me say good luck. I hope the credit card company gets you some of your money back. I don't think you'll see anything from your efforts, but seriously, I hope you do.

 

Secondly, everything you mentioned above is about legality. If you go that route, and have a lawyer that takes up your case, I hope you don't lose your shirts. I think you will. Unfortunately, the terms and conditions are pretty clear and you're dealing with a Bahamian corporation, not an American one. See that Bahamian courtesy flag on the aft of the ship.  Yes, we were in the Bahamas, but the ship is also registered in the Bahamas. 

 

 

What you're really discussing are the ethics and morals of a company as I truly don't think you'll receive one penny from NCL, even if you were to take them to court. The leadership at NCL(H) has proven, time and again, they have no morals, no ethics, no idea of what is right and wrong. The almighty dollar is their only concern. 

Should they have sent you the letter that was posted before embarkation to your email? Yes. Would it really have changed you sailing, or not? I highly doubt most would have cancelled as even with CFAR products, you'd only receive 50ish% back. 

 

BTW, the airlines are regulated by the FAA and DOT. Cruise lines are not regulated, except for safety standards per the USCG. 

 The CC companies are the way to get money back. I haven’t charged back anything at this point. However, I guarantee you this falls under the “didn’t get what you paid for categorization”. I may just do it for 50 dollars to prove my point. The CC companies work for the customer. Depending on your level of CC, your experience will be different but you can prove negligence here. I expect a ton of charge backs, and NCL not winning many of the cases. I took the trip, and was alright with it. The only exception is what I talked about above. I don’t plan on suing either. If you look at my reply, it said “an attorney on the ship”. Not my attorney. I don’t need an attorney.
 

Federal gov is the only way to tackle these issues. Little guy attorneys do nothing against big companies. Anyone company doing business within the US (whether they are international or not) has to follow US laws. You could fly the flag of the planet Saturn but you dock in the US, you must follow those laws and regulations. You must follow CDC, FTC, FMC, etc..

 

Your point about FAA is correct. However, the FAA or the DOT doesn’t have any regulation that says the airlines need to contact you immediately. They do it for the fear of negligence claims. 
 

All in all, you need the people with unlimited money and unlimited resources. You also need someone on the inside helping. I am fortunate enough to be able to do that. So I am taking that responsibility.  as I can do At this point, that is about 378 people that have CC’d me on their complaints to corporate, 

 

I am still working on which federal agency, multiple agencies, or state agencies this will flow to. I expect to have that wrapped up within a couple weeks. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by cjwolfson

[Sugar Magnolia]

47 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

We've done short 4 day cruises out of Florida in the past and have decided never again.  The clientele and the vibe is much different than a full week cruise.  It's less expensive to get on, less days off from work, especially for Floridians who don't have to travel.  In our opinion it's predominately a party crowd on a cheap getaway and it tends to make everything seem much more crowded and hectic.  Just our observation.

I wonder if this 5 day out of New York was a similar clientele and vibe?  That could be part of the reason for the negative reviews, particularly the comments about crowds and such. 

 

Having also taken the shorter cruises out of Miami to compare, I did not feel that the 5 day out of New York was similar to the partying crowd you are referring to out of Miami. For me, the issue was not just the crowd per se, as we know that pre-pandemic crowd levels are here to stay; rather, it was the staff to passenger ratio that affected the level of service we have grown to expect from NCL. The staffing shortage, lack of training and attention to details all contributed to the less than satisfactory experience. And to reiterate, this is corporate's responsibility to fix. I am still on the sidelines hoping conditions will improve when the cruise lines all find their footing while recovering in the post-pandemic world.

 

I would be curious how the cruise lines fare over spring break.

 

[cjwolfson]

22 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Your cruise wasn't cancelled, the itinerary was changed, and there's a world of difference between the two. Once you understand that you may change your mind about spending too much time on pursuing legal or governmental action.

 

Good luck .

 

Well sir, you should re-read what I said. I said negligence is the problem here with deception tactics. Nothing to do with change of location or cancellation. I don’t have to spend much time because I am on the inside. I am gathering information people send to me and then using my network to file internally. Granted first

time doing this, but I have my network that will get me to the right folks.’
 

You’re probably an NCL stock holder (funny thing is I am too). I will defend them for outrageous claims, but people have a legitimate gripe here.

[cruiseny4life]

22 minutes ago, cjwolfson said:

 The CC companies are the way to get money back. I haven’t charged back anything at this point. However, I guarantee you this falls under the “didn’t get what you paid for categorization”. I may just do it for 50 dollars to prove my point. The CC companies work for the customer. Depending on your level of CC, your experience will be different but you can prove negligence here. I expect a ton of charge backs, and NCL not winning many of the cases. I took the trip, and was alright with it. The only exception is what I talked about above. I don’t plan on suing either. If you look at my reply, it said “an attorney on the ship”. Not my attorney. I don’t need an attorney.
 

Federal gov is the only way to tackle these issues. Little guy attorneys do nothing against big companies. Anyone company doing business within the US (whether they are international or not) has to follow US laws. You could fly the flag of the planet Saturn but you dock in the US, you must follow those laws and regulations. You must follow CDC, FTC, FMC, etc..

 

Your point about FAA is correct. However, the FAA or the DOT doesn’t have any regulation that says the airlines need to contact you immediately. They do it for the fear of negligence claims. 
 

All in all, you need the people with unlimited money and unlimited resources. You also need someone on the inside helping. I am fortunate enough to be able to do that. So I am taking that responsibility.  as I can do At this point, that is about 378 people that have CC’d me on their complaints to corporate, 

 

I am still working on which federal agency, multiple agencies, or state agencies this will flow to. I expect to have that wrapped up within a couple weeks. 

Good luck...truly. I hope I'm wrong. Contact the folks on the 12/31 - 1/8 sailing. They're upset and want to fight too. I can't tell you how to contact them though as that breaches Cruise Critic's T&C's. 

 

Let us know the resolution. 

[njhorseman]

8 minutes ago, cjwolfson said:

Well sir, you should re-read what I said. I said negligence is the problem here with deception tactics. Nothing to do with change of location or cancellation. I don’t have to spend much time because I am on the inside. I am gathering information people send to me and then using my network to file internally. Granted first

time doing this, but I have my network that will get me to the right folks.’
 

You’re probably an NCL stock holder (funny thing is I am too). I will defend them for outrageous claims, but people have a legitimate gripe here.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not an NCL stockholder.

It's the USA . You can sue anyone for anything. Good luck.

[cjwolfson]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not an NCL stockholder.

It's the USA . You can sue anyone for anything. Good luck.

Again not suing anyone or anything. That is useless, it will go no where. The only course of action is the government. That is the only thing NCL will listen to. They folded very quickly when the CDC came down on them during Covid and were forced into all kinds of testing once they were allowed to sail again.  The government  (US government) rarely loses, it is just about getting the right people on your side.

 

 

 

 

[cjwolfson]

1 hour ago, cruiseny4life said:

Good luck...truly. I hope I'm wrong. Contact the folks on the 12/31 - 1/8 sailing. They're upset and want to fight too. I can't tell you how to contact them though as that breaches Cruise Critic's T&C's. 

 

Let us know the resolution. 

You can have those people contact me. I won't go fishing for complaints, not really allowed to do that. I wasn't on that sailing, so that could be a he/she said thing in the eyes of me. I was physically on this one, so I can put my name and clearance on things as the truth. Saying that, patterns are good for investigations. So if it was a pattern that can help (deception and negligence with concrete evidence), I willing to listen to them. Not sure if you can direct message people on here, but we can discuss ways to do that offline.

[cruiseny4life]

4 minutes ago, cjwolfson said:

You can have those people contact me. I won't go fishing for complaints, not really allowed to do that. I wasn't on that sailing, so that could be a he/she said thing in the eyes of me. I was physically on this one, so I can put my name and clearance on things as the truth. Saying that, patterns are good for investigations. So if it was a pattern that can help (deception and negligence with concrete evidence), I willing to listen to them. Not sure if you can direct message people on here, but we can discuss ways to do that offline.

I don't really care and sure am not going to do your work for you. Have fun on your fishing expedition. Ciao.

[cjwolfson]

3 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

I don't really care and sure am not going to do your work for you. Have fun on your fishing expedition. Ciao.

Sure seems like you do care as you're on a cruise board arguing just to argue. On a cruise you didn't even take LOL Kind of funny. Go out to eat, get with the family, do something productive, or leave the NCL corporate office. Hilarious..

Edited February 9, 2023 by cjwolfson

[Sugar Magnolia]

13 minutes ago, cjwolfson said:

Again not suing anyone or anything. That is useless, it will go no where. The only course of action is the government. That is the only thing NCL will listen to. They folded very quickly when the CDC came down on them during Covid and were forced into all kinds of testing once they were allowed to sail again.  The government  (US government) rarely loses, it is just about getting the right people on your side.

 

 

Would this be considered lobbying, as you are seeking to effect a change in how government responds to the concerns of a group of people?

 

[cjwolfson]

4 minutes ago, Sugar Magnolia said:

 

Would this be considered lobbying, as you are seeking to effect a change in how government responds to the concerns of a group of people?

 

No lobbying. I am just finding the right people (agency) to file a complaint to and have them investigate based on current us laws and regulations (specifically in this case negligence and deception). I will provide evidence and feedback that I received (along with my own experience), and have the right people do an independent investigation. I won't have any part of that. The only thing I am doing is collecting experiences, evidence, and other materials. Then filing internally, so it actually goes somewhere. 

Lobbying is buying people things or providing services in exchange for something. Like an oil executive taking congressman/congresswomen on fancy dinners to get a law passed. Not exactly the same thing. Just because one has networks to get to the right people that isn't lobbying. That is just pissing off the wrong person... 🙂

[tcrandal]

2 hours ago, cjwolfson said:

Well sir, you should re-read what I said. I said negligence is the problem here with deception tactics. Nothing to do with change of location or cancellation. I don’t have to spend much time because I am on the inside. I am gathering information people send to me and then using my network to file internally. Granted first

time doing this, but I have my network that will get me to the right folks.’
 

You’re probably an NCL stock holder (funny thing is I am too). I will defend them for outrageous claims, but people have a legitimate gripe here.

 

I'm neither a stock holder nor a die hard NCL fan, as I cruise with many different companies for a variety of different reasons. I understand being disappointed, what I guess I'm not clear on is what you believe you would be entitled to if for some reason a decision was in your favor. 

 

If you're being honest with yourself ( and us), would you have decided not to go on the trip if you found out prior to the cruise that they weren't going to the port? Since weather conditions are the deciding factor here, wouldn't you want NCL to hold off as long as possible before they make the decision to cancel in hopes that conditions improve? 

 

I'm not suggesting you don't have a reasonable complaint, however I see all too many people thinking they deserve a full refund because they missed their port, yet they still enjoyed the food, drinks, entertainment and rooms onboard. Of course those same people claim to be a captive at the mercy of the ship, and if you read the terms, that is true. 

 

Stuff happens people, even the best planned trips encounter disappointment, but life is too short to focus on that and not the next adventure. If anything, go ahead and try other cruise lines if you believe NCL is not meeting expectations.