New houskeeping and tipping

[PittsburghGirlee]

I am a neat person by nature and all that really needs done in my cabin is my bed made and fresh towels.  I take care of the rest, which is fine for 7 days.  I have seen some HORRENDOUS cabin conditions when walking down the halls.  It's sad that people are that filthy and more time needs to be spent picking up after these NIM RODS.  

 

Rant Over 🙂

Cruise on!!

[ray98]

31 minutes ago, resetjet said:

The tips always come up Short so there is little incentive.  

Not sure how you have come up with that as fact but that is the exact opposite of everything I've heard from employees who speak about it.

[sparks1093]

42 minutes ago, resetjet said:

I dont think there will be a return to normal.  Not on a boat and not at your local business.  As may cruises as i have taken i know what jobs are performed by whom.  Trust me its way different right now.  The steward who is cleaning 35 cabins has 1.5 times the workload as all of them are heavy cleans at once a day.  Lots of dishes,  dirt,  towels.  The major problem is they are paid a contract rate which guarantees them a certain amount if the tips come up short. The tips always come up Short so there is little incentive.  

Where are you getting your data about the tips? The contract rate is the guarantee, but if everyone pays the gratuities what they make can be higher. A server in a restaurant around here is paid roughly one third of what minimum wage is, but the employer is required to pay the full minimum wage if they don't earn enough in tips to make up the shortfall, which is similar to the pay structure for cruise ship workers, they have to make at least X but if everyone leaves the tips in place they actually make Y. 

[Buckeyefrank100]

19 hours ago, resetjet said:

I see in the near future one of the main cruise lines changing the model.  If i were the guy in charge i would simply add the tip amount($100 a week). To the fare. Continue to pay everyone as they do now and encourage old school cash  tipping.  The other carriers employees would flock in and you would have a fully staffed crew.  I predict royal will be the first.   The current program is not working anymore. 

They are not going to change it and add the DSC to the fare.  It would increase revenues and require paying taxes on those amounts in various localities.  It also would have the affect of increasing commissions to TAs.  Not to mention the marketing literature would be detrimentally impacted.  The opposite is actually true on land based hotels.  A lot of them have resorted to reducing the nightly fee and charging a daily resort fee so they can more easily hide it.

[ray98]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

Where are you getting your data about the tips? The contract rate is the guarantee, but if everyone pays the gratuities what they make can be higher. 

Their compensation schedule appears incorrect to me.  The guaranteed salary is only like $800-$1000 per month.  The majority of their income is from tips. 

 

I am also basing this on a personal conversation I had with a steward.  We were onboard directly after a passenger less reposition cruise and I made a joke about "must have been a relaxing few days".  He laughed and said "no no no....I only made salary last week with no passengers on board".  

Edited February 14, 2023 by ray98

[resetjet]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Where are you getting your data about the tips? The contract rate is the guarantee, but if everyone pays the gratuities what they make can be higher. A server in a restaurant around here is paid roughly one third of what minimum wage is, but the employer is required to pay the full minimum wage if they don't earn enough in tips to make up the shortfall, which is similar to the pay structure for cruise ship workers, they have to make at least X but if everyone leaves the tips in place they actually make Y. 

Its a pretty tight lipped topic.  I don't think any of us can definitively say one way or the other exactly how the system works.  Only what we experience and what we can google.  There is some content on the internet to back up what I am saying just start googling.  I am also sure it varies from line to line.  I do know that all crewmembers like tips in cash, maybe because they are keeping them, I don't know, but they all prefer it.  

[Joebucks]

21 hours ago, resetjet said:

I see in the near future one of the main cruise lines changing the model.  If i were the guy in charge i would simply add the tip amount($100 a week). To the fare. Continue to pay everyone as they do now and encourage old school cash  tipping.  The other carriers employees would flock in and you would have a fully staffed crew.  I predict royal will be the first.   The current program is not working anymore. 

 

While this is the model many of us (say we) want, there is little incentive for the cruise lines to do such a thing. First off, people are absolutely horrible with price perception. Rolling up everything into the fare suddenly has people questioning spending the same amount of money. There's also the tax implications. The gratuities are likely also designed in mind that some people just won't pay. It's built in.

 

20 hours ago, ruru107 said:

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but do you really need your room cleaned twice a day? 

20 hours ago, RD64 said:

Yes - to each his own. Why do you care if I want my room cleaned once or seventeen times?

 

Because whatever the "I like it so what do you care" thing it is: mints on a pillow, midnight swan buffet, tablecloths, room service breakfast, twice a day cleaning, all goods and labor cost money. No matter how much the internet thinks everything is free. The majority of cruisers have basically decided that these things aren't important/don't want to pay for them. Good for you that you like these things. Fortunately for you, you can choose to go on a line that offers these. Chances are, you really don't want to pay for it. You want everyone else to, who could care less about it. That's why people might care that you think it's neat to get a room cleaned twice or seventeen times a day. Bonus points, in no other scenario anywhere is your room serviced twice per day. That's why some think it's even more ridiculous.

[Elaine5715]

25 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

While this is the model many of us (say we) want, there is little incentive for the cruise lines to do such a thing. First off, people are absolutely horrible with price perception. Rolling up everything into the fare suddenly has people questioning spending the same amount of money. There's also the tax implications. The gratuities are likely also designed in mind that some people just won't pay. It's built in.

 

 

 

Like on Amazon, your item is $20.99 with Free Shipping is "better" than $13.99 plus $6.00 shipping.  

[sanmarcosman]

32 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 in no other scenario anywhere is your room serviced twice per day.

Turn down service in America happens across the country in first class hotels daily. This is what amazed me when I first cruised Carnival, they were a budget line offering an extra service typical of first class American hotels. I can understand why turn down had to go and why some Carnival cruisers miss it. 

[RD64]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

While this is the model many of us (say we) want, there is little incentive for the cruise lines to do such a thing. First off, people are absolutely horrible with price perception. Rolling up everything into the fare suddenly has people questioning spending the same amount of money. There's also the tax implications. The gratuities are likely also designed in mind that some people just won't pay. It's built in.

 

 

Because whatever the "I like it so what do you care" thing it is: mints on a pillow, midnight swan buffet, tablecloths, room service breakfast, twice a day cleaning, all goods and labor cost money. No matter how much the internet thinks everything is free. The majority of cruisers have basically decided that these things aren't important/don't want to pay for them. Good for you that you like these things. Fortunately for you, you can choose to go on a line that offers these. Chances are, you really don't want to pay for it. You want everyone else to, who could care less about it. That's why people might care that you think it's neat to get a room cleaned twice or seventeen times a day. Bonus points, in no other scenario anywhere is your room serviced twice per day. That's why some think it's even more ridiculous.

Because until recently - having my room cleaned 17/times a day and having a chocolate on my pillow was de rigeur on even the most basic cruise. Table cloths? Yes my par3nts brought me up that way - there is always a table cloth on the table - an ironed table cloth - always has been always will be? Exactly - I will choose to go on a cruise that gives me at least the basics I get at home. 
 

And obviously you have not stayed at a decent European hotel, the ones where yes - there is both morning and afternoon service - and the attendants change - morning suits  for regular cleaning , then a complete change for evening turn down service. So it may not be done at the Motel 6, but there are places in the world where it truly is a thing.

[canes20]

3 minutes ago, RD64 said:

Because until recently - having my room cleaned 17/times a day and having a chocolate on my pillow was de rigeur on even the most basic cruise. Table cloths? Yes my par3nts brought me up that way - there is always a table cloth on the table - an ironed table cloth - always has been always will be? Exactly - I will choose to go on a cruise that gives me at least the basics I get at home. 
 

And obviously you have not stayed at a decent European hotel, the ones where yes - there is both morning and afternoon service - and the attendants change - morning suits  for regular cleaning , then a complete change for evening turn down service. So it may not be done at the Motel 6, but there are places in the world where it truly is a thing.

You do know that you are on a Carnival board?

[RD64]

4 minutes ago, canes20 said:

You do know that you are on a Carnival board?

LOL - yes I seem to have forgotten! The land of baseball caps, dollar store keychains, inspirational scriptures, but not $1 for crew gratuities.

Edited February 15, 2023 by RD64

[LatinaInTexas]

22 hours ago, mz-s said:

you still can return to it - just not on cut-rate lines like Carnival.  

 

[john91498]

Man, the whole tipping thing is always a hot topic.

 

I leave the auto tips alone and add extra tips to those who made my trip a more pleasant experience. Usually, wait staff, bar tenders and room attendants.

[Pika8347]

Rest assure folks, I remove my tips. It's my money, I'll spend it as I wish. I know this is unpopular and "self-righteous" but I work too hard for my money to be redistributed by an obscure formula. 

 

[Elaine5715]

11 hours ago, Pika8347 said:

Rest assure folks, I remove my tips. It's my money, I'll spend it as I wish. I know this is unpopular and "self-righteous" but I work too hard for my money to be redistributed by an obscure formula. 

 

It is more than unpopular.  The crew work as hard, if not harder.  There is nothing obscure.  The grats are divided between crew members who make cruising the best vacation in the world.  

[Buckeyefrank100]

11 hours ago, Pika8347 said:

Rest assure folks, I remove my tips. It's my money, I'll spend it as I wish. I know this is unpopular and "self-righteous" but I work too hard for my money to be redistributed by an obscure formula. 

 

I don't care what the "obscure formula" is on any cruiseline.  We know ahead of time, the amount of services charges (or whatever you want to call them) and they are expected and basically mandatory.  I have never removed them and rarely tipped more than required.  I for one, don't care at all what MSC pays their employees anymore than I can what Walmart pays their employees.  That's between them..  

[kirtihk]

On 2/12/2023 at 1:38 PM, EngIceDave said:

I don't like the idea of taking off gratuities for any reason.

 

You want to give the steward additional, as I do, please do so, but to take it upon yourself to decide who gets what by what percentage is just wrong. You have no idea of the behind the scenes assistants who help you one you actually see.

 

Have a problem, go to GS and ask to speak to the Hotel Manager. Don't like how they do it, go to the Hotel Manager.

 

Whole idea of holding tips hostage or whatever rubs me the wrong way.

That means it also was wrong across all cruise lines for decades until a few years ago when they started to do auto-charge to the pool of employees, wasn't it?. Previously, they were giving recommendations just for 4 particular crew members (including specifically cabin cleaning personnel) on what tip percentage would be in cash at the end of a cruise per each individual meaning no one else was getting any tips from the total tip recommendation.  Everyone who cruised in those days knows it.

 

 

 

 

per person.

[sparks1093]

8 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

That means it also was wrong across all cruise lines for decades until a few years ago when they started to do auto-charge to the pool of employees, wasn't it?. Previously, they were giving recommendations just for 4 particular crew members (including specifically cabin cleaning personnel) on what tip percentage would be in cash at the end of a cruise per each individual meaning no one else was getting any tips from the total tip recommendation.  Everyone who cruised in those days knows it.

 

per person.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that in those days behind the scenes folks were tipped out by those 4 particular crew members. That's the way tipping out works, the customer isn't aware of it.

[mz-s]

1 minute ago, kirtihk said:

That means it also was wrong across all cruise lines for decades until a few years ago when they started to do auto-charge to the pool of employees, wasn't it?. Previously, they were giving recommendations just for 4 particular crew members (including specifically cabin cleaning personnel) on what tip percentage would be in cash at the end of a cruise per each individual meaning no one else was getting any tips from the total tip recommendation.  Everyone who cruised in those days knows it.

 

 

 

 

per person.

 

It was done so they could redistribute salaries off their balance sheet and directly onto the backs of their customers. A hidden price increase. And it gets worse every time they hike the gratuity rate. They certainly aren't increasing their level of service, anybody who has cruised Carnival consistently for the past several years can see it's quite the opposite in fact. Who knows how much of that increase each individual crew member sees - it's just as likely they just add more "behind the scenes" positions to the pool, or cut the base salary, so nobody really sees any increase at all.

 

By the way - Where else in the world are you called a cheapskate if you refuse to tip "behind the scenes" workers except the Carnival cruise critic forum I ask you? I don't know if there's a TGI Friday's Critic forum somewhere on the internet, but if there is - do they call you a cheapskate if you don't give a tip to the guy who refills the paper towels in the bathroom?

[kirtihk]

On 2/13/2023 at 9:09 AM, groundloop said:

It sure sounds like a lot of people are just looking for an excuse to be stingy.

I will sound repetitive: whatever is called tips/ gratuities/service charge (and tax for that matter, by the way) shall be included in a product price regardless of whether it is a cruise, a restaurant item, haircut, whatever else - you like it/accept price you buy it - no issue.  Then there will be no stingy upon experiencing such a product.  Why is it so difficult to accept this concept is beyond of my comprehension?  In the end one pays the same amount of money (as with tip being paid separately) but having much better overall total outcome (no need to think/calculate/guess every single time per each purchase).

[sparks1093]

29 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

It was done so they could redistribute salaries off their balance sheet and directly onto the backs of their customers. A hidden price increase. And it gets worse every time they hike the gratuity rate. They certainly aren't increasing their level of service, anybody who has cruised Carnival consistently for the past several years can see it's quite the opposite in fact. Who knows how much of that increase each individual crew member sees - it's just as likely they just add more "behind the scenes" positions to the pool, or cut the base salary, so nobody really sees any increase at all.

 

By the way - Where else in the world are you called a cheapskate if you refuse to tip "behind the scenes" workers except the Carnival cruise critic forum I ask you? I don't know if there's a TGI Friday's Critic forum somewhere on the internet, but if there is - do they call you a cheapskate if you don't give a tip to the guy who refills the paper towels in the bathroom?

*sigh* once again, YOU don't tip the person behind the scenes. You give your tip to the server and THEY tip out the person behind the scenes if that is the agreement exists in that establishment. If you remove your auto gratuities and tip your steward they are still obligated to turn those tips in so they can be properly distributed. You've just made it harder on them because they have to use their off time to deal with it.

[sparks1093]

1 minute ago, kirtihk said:

I will sound repetitive: whatever is called tips/ gratuities/service charge (and tax for that matter, by the way) shall be included in a product price regardless of whether it is a cruise, a restaurant item, haircut, whatever else - you like it/accept price you buy it - no issue.  Then there will be no stingy upon experiencing such a product.  Why is it so difficult to accept this concept is beyond of my comprehension?  In the end one pays the same amount of money (as with tip being paid separately) but having much better overall total outcome (no need to think/calculate/guess every single time per each purchase).

I'll put it this way- I know a gentleman that works as a bellhop at a resort here in my state and has worked there since high school. He makes at least $50k in tips each year by a conservative reckoning. How much more would that resort need to raise their rates in order to give him that type of income? It's not as easy as you make it out to be.

[mz-s]

1 minute ago, sparks1093 said:

*sigh* once again, YOU don't tip the person behind the scenes. You give your tip to the server and THEY tip out the person behind the scenes if that is the agreement exists in that establishment. If you remove your auto gratuities and tip your steward they are still obligated to turn those tips in so they can be properly distributed. You've just made it harder on them because they have to use their off time to deal with it.

 

not saying you've said this ... read post #6, #11, #13, #17, #20 on this thread ... and that's just the first page ...

[kirtihk]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:06 PM, ruru107 said:

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but do you really need your room cleaned twice a day? 

As I wrote on multiple occasions, some (including me) in general don't need to clean it at all by someone else (by doing it yourself); however, it doesn't change the fact of expectation of such a service while on vacation when you just want to totally relax couple (or a few) times a year.