Is Iona actually bunkering with LNG yet?

[Fionboard]

11 minutes ago, Yorkypete said:

Yes....and that is the general idea from many ports. It also includes cargo vessels and the only exclusion are ferries. Of course those that pass the test are limited by size as well. It beats me why the companies are building ever bigger ships when they know some ports will ban them and a number of ports cannot accommodate them. Perhaps they are copying P&O who appear to want literal cruise ships which only have  sea days and no ports.

Good news for Saga, Fred, Ambassador, et al !

[solentsam]

only sail boats and rowing boats then

[wowzz]

15 minutes ago, Fionboard said:

Good news for Saga, Fred, Ambassador, et al !

I'm not sure that the old ships used by Fred and Ambassador woukd pass the emissions test. 

[Fionboard]

9 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I'm not sure that the old ships used by Fred and Ambassador woukd pass the emissions test. 

I was talking about the size aspect.

[terrierjohn]

8 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I'm not sure that the old ships used by Fred and Ambassador woukd pass the emissions test. 

We have had Ambassador's Ambience in port with us yesterday and today  in Madeira and Tenerife, just saying.

[wowzz]

8 minutes ago, Fionboard said:

I was talking about the size aspect.

Doesn't matter about how small they are if they polluting.

[Fionboard]

How are these regulations going to be policed? 

[terrierjohn]

7 minutes ago, Fionboard said:

How are these regulations going to be policed? 

Yorkypetes militia!!!!?

[wowzz]

10 minutes ago, Fionboard said:

How are these regulations going to be policed? 

The Andorra navy will be in charge of policing.

[daiB]

1 hour ago, Yorkypete said:

Yes....and that is the general idea from many ports. It also includes cargo vessels and the only exclusion are ferries. Of course those that pass the test are limited by size as well. It beats me why the companies are building ever bigger ships when they know some ports will ban them and a number of ports cannot accommodate them. Perhaps they are copying P&O who appear to want literal cruise ships which only have  sea days and no ports.

Oh. Now we are on to size now.well apart from Venice which other ports are involved or4 is it the whole of the Med. That would take out most of the Italian lines Costa MSC. 

[Bill Y]

22 hours ago, Yorkypete said:

 

FromJan 1st 2025 all ships with a sulpur emmission of over 1% will not be allowed in the Mediterranian. This was decided and signed by 25 countries at  the COP22 meeting in Barcelona. It is as per the the Protection of the Marine Environment and Coastal Regions of the Mediterranian. That is where this comes from. You can look it up quite easily.

Yes I posted a link in post #13.

 

What is interesting is it’s the 0.1% sulphur emissions not the type of fuel per see, I note that this limit has been in place in the North Sea and the Fjords since 2019 and P&O have been sailing their oil burning ships there since then. So it would appear that all P&O’s ships are capable of running on low sulphur fuel.

 

Obviously there is a cost implication and at the time that Iona was specified it may have been thought that to go down the gas (LNG) route was more cost effective. As has been pointed out the gas prices have unexpectedly rocketed, so it may not now be the cost saver that was envisaged. I did not know that these new LNG ships were capable of also running on oil, so oil burning ships may be around for some time admittedly burning more expensive oil. Someone may be able to shed some light at the actual MPG or tons per mile using the relative fuels?

[Yorkypete]

1 hour ago, daiB said:

Oh. Now we are on to size now.well apart from Venice which other ports are involved or4 is it the whole of the Med. That would take out most of the Italian lines Costa MSC. 

If you kept up with news about cruising, ships, ports etc you would know these things.There are many ports involved and more discussing the possibility of regulating the number of passengers allowed each day. There will not be more than 1 ship allowed with over 5000 passengers in some ports and a total of 8000 maximum. This rules out many ships.  As to the Italian ships it was voted in by 22 countries many of which are in the Med. You may have noticed that MSC are now basing some of their ships in the USA, Caribbean and none Med countries.  Keep in touch with the news.

 

[Fionboard]

37 minutes ago, Yorkypete said:

If you kept up with news about cruising, ships, ports etc you would know these things.There are many ports involved and more discussing the possibility of regulating the number of passengers allowed each day. There will not be more than 1 ship allowed with over 5000 passengers in some ports and a total of 8000 maximum. This rules out many ships.  As to the Italian ships it was voted in by 22 countries many of which are in the Med. You may have noticed that MSC are now basing some of their ships in the USA, Caribbean and none Med countries.  Keep in touch with the news.

 

And Virtuosa in Southampton.

[Britboys]

On 2/23/2023 at 3:30 PM, terrierjohn said:

We have had Ambassador's Ambience in port with us yesterday and today  in Madeira and Tenerife, just saying.

I understand that Ambience had significant maintenance/engineering refurbishment undertaken before starting service with Ambassador to ensure high environmental compliance.

[Britboys]

This is information from the Ambassador Cruises brochure. I dare say P&O has carried out similar works on the older ships during refit/dry docking.

[JeanieC,Aston]

Iona being bunkered in Rotterdam last week,,,,I don’t think that is a LNG tanker.

 

[terrierjohn]

23 minutes ago, Yorkypete said:

I would not dream of patronising anyone, especially  someone I do not know. I post facts which some people fell they can criticise  without even researching the subject.DaiB was rather sarcastic when he said 'oh we are  on to size now'  as though I was making up reasons to suggest ports being closed to cruiseliners.They are and unless they change there will only be cruises and no port visits. Simple facts.

 

We are in Fuerteventura today and they now have a new cruise port set up to take ships up to Excel size. So clearly they believe it worthwhile to ensure they can cater for the new mega cruise liners, and I have no doubt there are lots of other ports with similar views.

So it's possible the only losers will be those who are currently advocating extra restrictions. And local politics being what it is, once the coffers dry up, there could be new faces with different ideas.

[Camberley]

On 2/22/2023 at 7:50 AM, Mollag said:

That’s P&O for you. You definitely don’t get what it says on the label. 

Well, perhaps 99.9% of the time. But I think other companies are in a similar boat with this issue.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Camberley

[Yorkypete]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

We are in Fuerteventura today and they now have a new cruise port set up to take ships up to Excel size. So clearly they believe it worthwhile to ensure they can cater for the new mega cruise liners, and I have no doubt there are lots of other ports with similar views.

So it's possible the only losers will be those who are currently advocating extra restrictions. And local politics being what it is, once the coffers dry up, there could be new faces with different ideas.

 They may be able to cater for the massive vessels but it is the number of passengers which seems to be the problem in many areas. With the current worldwide concern with the habitat and global warming it can only get worse. Couple emission controls with the above it is a volcano waiting to errupt. Norway, some areas of the Caribbean and many Mediterranean ports are involved inc. the likes of Barcelona, Malaga and Mallorca.. 

[Host Sharon]

On 2/22/2023 at 2:31 PM, Bill Y said:

Interesting, this sounds alarmist, but what does it actually mean?

 

Is it just a lighter less polluting but more expensive fuel oil that must be used as in the North Sea and the Fjords?  Even oil burning cruise ships are allowed in Antarctica’s waters. I did not know until mentioned by Moley that P&O’s much trumpeted LPG ships could run on oil. They kept that quiet.

 

https://www.gard.no/web/updates/content/29212584/regional-sulphur-emission-limits-at-a-glance

Ships are not allowed to burn heavy fuel oil in Antarctica. When I went there with HAL, Zaandam had dual fuel tanks and had to switch to a lighter oil for the five or so days we were in Antarctic waters. There is also a limit on pax numbers.

[molecrochip]

So, yes P&O have implemented the changes announced in the Ambassador piece above.

 

Scrubbers were installed on the older ships during dry dock. Britannia was either the last Royal class ship delivered without scrubbers as standard, or the first as standard and I can't remember which.

 

This is part of the reason we've seen so many ships retired during the pandemic - they are just not cost effective enough to have the big expensive engineering upgrades needed to be compliant.

[Snow Hill]

8 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

So, yes P&O have implemented the changes announced in the Ambassador piece above.

 

Scrubbers were installed on the older ships during dry dock. Britannia was either the last Royal class ship delivered without scrubbers as standard, or the first as standard and I can't remember which.

 

This is part of the reason we've seen so many ships retired during the pandemic - they are just not cost effective enough to have the big expensive engineering upgrades needed to be compliant.

Where does P&O dispose of the waste sea water used in the scrubbers?

[molecrochip]

I don't know.

 

Presumably the same place every other cruise ship with scrubbers does.

[Snow Hill]

Just now, molecrochip said:

I don't know.

 

Presumably the same place every other cruise ship with scrubbers does.

That will be the sea then, dumping toxic waste into the seas and oceans

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Snow Hill said:

That will be the sea then, dumping toxic waste into the seas and oceans

I thought the toxicity came from the particulate level resulting in poor air quality for breathing. Presumably once it is in solution it no longer causes any problems to the air quality.