Lights Out at Midnight

[ChinaShrek]

7 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

 

I get the feeling some would like HAL to become a kind of monastery where all noise is forbidden, meals are spartan, and everyone has to rise at 5:00 am and be in bed by 9:00 pm!  Some would even like us to believe that HAL was always like that. Far from it!  Reading the reminiscences on another thread, particularly those from long-time cruiser @RuthC reminds me of similar cruise stories from my own parents who traveled HAL extensively in the 1970s-1990s and were known to enjoy dancing, music and a pleasant drink/conversation or two in the evenings...

 

 

 

 

But you aren't displaying much sympathy for labor shortages than many businesses face. Everyone wants life to return back to normal but it won't. Covid has changed much of the world forever. HAL may never be the cruise line it was once. In fact, cruising may cease to exist as a result of Covid. We must accept cruising as it is now on HAL, cruise on other lines with their challenges as well, or do land vacations.

[KroozNut]

6 hours ago, albingirl said:

This is certainly not my intention. Please don't assume side eyed judgement. That is unfair since it is my opinion only. You are certainly fond of expressing your opinion. I would appreciate the same opportunity. No need to be harsh.

 

I didn't see any harshness in that response, and I have to agree that the condescending tone in more than a few comments here is palpable.

[eroller]

4 hours ago, kirtihk said:

It's the same even at least on some luxury cruise lines: I was on Ponant and Regent last July and this January respectively, and both closed bars at midnight.

 

Not apples to apples.  Small luxury ship compared to a mass-market large ship.  
 

I’ve sailed on Regent, Oceania, Windstar, Silversea, Azamara and other small ships, and could always find a bar serving drinks past midnight.  They all had pretty much better nightlife than HAL, sad to say.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by eroller

[eroller]

4 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Those who want drinks after midnight should investigate other cruise lines ....to find the right match for their cruise preferences, when there is a wide variety of activities and service levels across the industry.

 

Wanting a drink past midnight should not require searching out another cruise line.  HAL’s own marketing materials tout the nightlife onboard. No they don’t promote a party till dawn atmosphere, but nor do they promote a ship turning into a ghost town at 10pm. 
 

Desiring a cocktail at midnight while on vacation on a large cruise ship is not an unreasonable request, even for HAL.  

[Florida_gal_50]

1 hour ago, ChinaShrek said:

But you aren't displaying much sympathy for labor shortages than many businesses face. Everyone wants life to return back to normal but it won't. Covid has changed much of the world forever. HAL may never be the cruise line it was once. In fact, cruising may cease to exist as a result of Covid. We must accept cruising as it is now on HAL, cruise on other lines with their challenges as well, or do land vacations.

There seems to be a lot of people that work for hal on this thread.  Everyone knows there are labour shortages. Just because it’s happening where you live doesn’t mean it’s gospel.  Just like various food issues are all supply chain, yet no other cruise line is having these issues.  I’ve never known hal to throw away money.  Like every business that has shareholders they will try to make due with the least amount of staff.

[eroller]

1 minute ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

There seems to be a lot of people that work for hal on this thread.  Everyone knows there are labour shortages. Just because it’s happening where you live doesn’t mean it’s gospel.  Just like various food issues are all supply chain, yet no other cruise line is having these issues.  I’ve never known hal to throw away money.  Like every business that has shareholders they will try to make due with the least amount of staff.

 

Absolutely.  And let’s be honest if the labor shortage is so bad they can’t keep one bar open past midnight then they shouldn’t be operating all their ships.  Plain and simple.  
 

Funny I don’t hear about this problem on other cruise lines and I sail most of them.  I’ll be on ROTTERDAM later this month and I’ll be making a point to find a bar open past midnight.  

[ChinaShrek]

13 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

There seems to be a lot of people that work for hal on this thread.  Everyone knows there are labour shortages. Just because it’s happening where you live doesn’t mean it’s gospel.  Just like various food issues are all supply chain, yet no other cruise line is having these issues.  I’ve never known hal to throw away money.  Like every business that has shareholders they will try to make due with the least amount of staff.

I'm sailing Carnival next month. I will be looking to see if they have all the workers they need. I suspect I will hear problems there as well. Ultimately, I am willing to sail HAL because of the deeply discounted or free cruises that they are still offering. 

[Hobby3333]

18 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

Absolutely.  And let’s be honest if the labor shortage is so bad they can’t keep one bar open past midnight then they shouldn’t be operating all their ships.  Plain and simple.  
 

Funny I don’t hear about this problem on other cruise lines and I sail most of them.  I’ll be on ROTTERDAM later this month and I’ll be making a point to find a bar open past midnight.  

We have only sailed HAL one time.  We will be on the Rotterdam in July.   Is it true what my wife told me, that I will turn into a pumpkin if I stay out after 11:17?

[Florida_gal_50]

1 minute ago, Hobby3333 said:

We have only sailed HAL one time.  We will be on the Rotterdam in July.   Is it true what my wife told me, that I will turn into a pumpkin if I stay out after 11:17?

No but they will pass you off to a carnival ship because you don’t belong on hal if you stay up that late 😛.  

[eroller]

14 minutes ago, Hobby3333 said:

We have only sailed HAL one time.  We will be on the Rotterdam in July.   Is it true what my wife told me, that I will turn into a pumpkin if I stay out after 11:17?

 

Unfortunately there is truth to it.  There are things I really like about HAL but the lack of nightlife is not one of them. I’m beyond the party all night vibe of Carnival, but not at the in bed by 10pm on vacation mode either, and frankly I hope I never will be.  
 

One of my favorite lines is Cunard.  They share many attributes with HAL being another traditional line.  One thing they don’t share is a lack of nightlife.  Cunard ships have nightclubs and they are active.  Getting a drink after midnight is never an issue.  Yet the average age is high just like HAL but the vibe is different.  More international and more youthful.  
 

What brings me back to HAL now is the price.  Honestly they are the cheapest thing going, even less than Carnival in many cases. Maybe it will bring in some more active clientele?  One can dream!  

Edited March 8, 2023 by eroller

[ris_scot]

17 hours ago, AFNavigator said:

Our experience in Dec on the NS was the Sea View bar was the last to close.  But even at that, I don't think they were open much past 11:30.

 

Here's a dilemma for those wanting the bars to stay open past midnight...do your purchases past midnight count against your next day's drink limit?

Not in my experience.  It normally resets overnight when the bars are all shut.

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, ChinaShrek said:

But you aren't displaying much sympathy for labor shortages than many businesses face. Everyone wants life to return back to normal but it won't. Covid has changed much of the world forever. HAL may never be the cruise line it was once. In fact, cruising may cease to exist as a result of Covid. We must accept cruising as it is now on HAL, cruise on other lines with their challenges as well, or do land vacations.

 

I would not say that I'm not sympathetic to the issue of shortages, if they are not an excuse.

 

I have posed the question a number of times on this forum but have not gotten any insightful answers: How is it that HAL seems to have so many more supply issues and shortages than other comparable lines on comparable routes. Wouldn't supply and labor shortages impact all lines similarly?

[robotpony]

11 minutes ago, ris_scot said:

17 hours ago, AFNavigator said:

Here's a dilemma for those wanting the bars to stay open past midnight...do your purchases past midnight count against your next day's drink limit?

Not in my experience.  It normally resets overnight when the bars are all shut.

 

Others have reported that it is reset at 2AM, which seems pretty sensible.

[Hobby3333]

For full disclosure, my wife and I are taking our 16 year old granddaughter and one of her friends on a Carnival ship in May.  I am platinum on Carnival and I know that I can stay out past 11:17.  I guess it is just on Holland.  I have admit that we really enjoyed out Holland cruise last year and looking forward to July even with all the terrible things that are wrong with Holland.  Tongue in cheek. 

[Florida_gal_50]

35 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I would not say that I'm not sympathetic to the issue of shortages, if they are not an excuse.

 

I have posed the question a number of times on this forum but have not gotten any insightful answers: How is it that HAL seems to have so many more supply issues and shortages than other comparable lines on comparable routes. Wouldn't supply and labor shortages impact all lines similarly?

Exactly.  People love to make excuses for hal or even think it’s their job to help out.  One person said they bus their own table and others 🙄.  When I said no way will I do that I got called lazy by another poster. That’s insane.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Florida_gal_50

[RICHARD@SEA]

As far as staffing shortages are concerned many companies are hiding behind this for increased profit margins.  Its a perfect time to see how far they can make cutbacks & still operate a business.  From what I understand HAL has started to staff the Guest Services w employees from Africa - why didn't HAL/ Carnivore Corp use these people before - mainly because the Indonesian crew were quite affordable & most happy to be working onboard the ships.

One good barometer for staffing is the Passenger  to crew ratio....Carnivore can keep cutting back to staff because not many passengers pay attention to that.

Along w staffing issues - what ever happened to live BANDS playing in the lounges...another cutback.

I sailed w HAL since the 1970's & no longer do unless a specific itin is offered.  The quality is so dumbed down now that the ships are just floating malls(another dinosaur) at this point. Instead of floating palaces w a few hundred or 1000 passengers having a 4 or 5 star experience w the best food & service - there is a mass market business where the corporations tout this dream when in reality people are paying $100 or more a day per person for a  mediocrity.

 

I recently went to a couple of restaurants in NYC - yes there were tough times...but when I went to eat  at a restaurant across from Lincoln Center that is owned &operated by a world renowned French chef - I was appalled at the level of service & food - shocked actually.  It was a total rip off & I will never go to one of his restaurants again. For $200 a person I had 2 small thin sliced pieces of lamb a salad that was a few days old, one small potato & 1 bottle of Pelligrino water & a glass of wine that was a bout 25% full(usually there were 4 glasses of wine per bottle , now its more like 5).

I went looking to support the restaurant, NYC & the staff - I was the fool.

All business have changed - I'll pick the ones that deliver quality in relation to costs.

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, Hobby3333 said:

We have only sailed HAL one time.  We will be on the Rotterdam in July.   Is it true what my wife told me, that I will turn into a pumpkin if I stay out after 11:17?

 

No, but you may turn into the Maytag Repairman.  

(Old TV ad joke reference)

[eroller]

30 minutes ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

As far as staffing shortages are concerned many companies are hiding behind this for increased profit margins.  Its a perfect time to see how far they can make cutbacks & still operate a business.  From what I understand HAL has started to staff the Guest Services w employees from Africa - why didn't HAL/ Carnivore Corp use these people before - mainly because the Indonesian crew were quite affordable & most happy to be working onboard the ships.

One good barometer for staffing is the Passenger  to crew ratio....Carnivore can keep cutting back to staff because not many passengers pay attention to that.

Along w staffing issues - what ever happened to live BANDS playing in the lounges...another cutback.

Well said and I agree 100%.  While there may have been staff shortages I think at this point cruise lines are using it to their advantage.  They are gauging just how much they can get away with, all the while charging more for ancillary items like drinks, gratuities, and specialty restaurants.  So far the strategy seems to be paying off so we can all expect to receive less and pay more moving forward.  
 

I remember after 9/11 many companies used “security” as a scapegoat for many negative changes related to customer service.  I always laugh when complimentary Bridge visits were halted due to security reasons, but then started up again as a behind the scenes experience you had to pay for.  Suddenly security was no longer a concern when increased revenue came into play.  
 

Now we even have the environment being used as an excuse.  As lines try to become more carbon neutral we are seeing schedules suddenly adjusted and port calls shortened or eliminated.  All under the guise of the environment.  The NCLH brands are most guilty of this.  The more likely reason is more cost cutting.  Less port fees and more time onboard a very slow moving ship with more free time to spend $$.  
 

I just wish companies in general would be more honest about their cost cutting initiatives.  I would have more respect for them.  Unfortunately I guess enough people buy into it that they keep up the charade.
 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by eroller

[OlsSalt]

Paying off the billions of dollars CCL had to borrow during the 2 year long shut down, and then  several seasons diminished occupancy sailings does have a ripple effect.  Wonder how long it will take for CCL to move back into positive revenue range.

 

"Covid" was hard on everyone, including those of those of us coming back to cruising again- re-setting expectations is part of the show-term fall out. I have a lot of sympathy for what they had to do to shut down, keep expensive inventory afloat and then get it all back in shape to accept passengers again. If we want to cruise again, these costs obviously have to be shifted to someone. Pretty basic economics at play, in this highly unfortunate global response to "covid". 

 

Environmental demands are having  a huge impact on cruising. Many ports have very active forces shoreside who want at total shut down of the entire industry and that does impact port choices and availability. All part of the ESG corporate responsibility doctrine that is currently trending in every corner of corporate life.

 

Fair or not, based on anything other than unfounded emotions and misdirected radicalism, it is real and cruise lines are vulnerable to these forces. Again, this has nothing to do with making excuses or "gouging" passengers.  Just facts of life. 

 

Time to stop looking for issue to nitpick and just enjoy or pick another cruise line or activity that is better suited, than an industry that has more than a few more years to get back on their feet. 

[Florida_gal_50]

When it’s other people expressing opinions it’s nitpicking.  When it about them, it’s valid concerns.  Funny how that works.

[Q Family]

On 3/7/2023 at 2:07 PM, spleenstomper said:

I’m in my early 50s and I was so excited to find my people on HAL on Westerdam in September! I’m in Jammies at 8:30 and had been used to Carnival before the kids were “grown and flown”…
 

HAL is like a RV crowd: early to bed, early to rise. The ship is popping at 6 am 😁 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Q Family
Wrong format

[eroller]

18 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

When it’s other people expressing opinions it’s nitpicking.  When it about them, it’s valid concerns.  Funny how that works.

 

True.  And let’s face it we all handle change differently.  Some are willing to be complacent and defend their chosen cruise line to the death no matter what negative changes are made, and others are more vocal, perhaps less loyal, and see things differently.  
 

I’m vocal because I actually care.  I love the cruise industry and ships are a hobby.  I don’t want to see all the special attributes that make cruising so unique disappear.  In that case we can all just stay at hotels.  Cruise lines always strived to be different than the hotel industry.  It set them apart.  Now suddenly they want to be aligned.  Not a smart move IMO.  
 

I fully understand the challenges that the industry faced during COVID and continue to face post-COVID.  I also know that no major cruise line has reached sustained profitability and faces large debt (maybe MSC is the exception).  But even with these challenges some balance is important.  Not all cruise lines are created equal in this regard, and Carnival Corp seems a bit more heavy handed with the customer facing cost cutting than other companies.  The balance is definitely leaning away from the customer.  
 

The true test will be how things evolve in a few years.  Will we see things like twice daily cabin service return or will this be the new norm as lines realize the increased profitability.   Also just how much will the consumer tolerate before deciding the value proposition of cruising has degraded so greatly that a resort is the better option?  Hopefully the cruise industry as a whole doesn’t shoot themselves in the foot and spoil all the great things that made cruising special to begin with.  One of those great things was the value proposition.  Cruising has always been a great value but perhaps is becoming less and less so with each passing year.  

Edited March 9, 2023 by eroller

[KroozNut]

4 hours ago, Hobby3333 said:

We have only sailed HAL one time.  We will be on the Rotterdam in July.   Is it true what my wife told me, that I will turn into a pumpkin if I stay out after 11:17?

 

Your wife is partially correct, but it's after 8pm, not 11:17.. 😁

[HALcruiser2001]

The second set on ms NS was jammed.   3rd set was perhaps 80%.  3rd set was 11:15 to 12.

 

I was up to 12:00 to 3:00 all cruise. Closed the clubs and bars. Some still up with me.   Just wish there were even more to rationalize more service late.  Nice thing on cruise is I can nap in day.

[Sea42]

11 hours ago, eroller said:

I fully understand the challenges that the industry faced during COVID and continue to face post-COVID.  I also know that no major cruise line has reached sustained profitability and faces large debt (maybe MSC is the exception).  But even with these challenges some balance is important.  Not all cruise lines are created equal in this regard, and Carnival Corp seems a bit more heavy handed with the customer facing cost cutting than other companies.  The balance is definitely leaning away from the customer.

Cutbacks continue on other lines also.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/this-cruise-line-cant-turn-you-down-5672d9c9?st=8lftwmq9lfob4ai&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink