Making the specialty restaurants family friendly??

[Laminator]

1 minute ago, FlorenceItaly said:

Imo, this is no longer HAL's target demographic.

If HAL wants to stay in business it better not be!

[albingirl]

Just now, Laminator said:

On my last cruise on the NS I saw many more misbehaved ADULTS than children. All alcohol related. There were a few times when blows were almost struck. And the one pax who accused the servers of stealing his phone. The same phone I saw him talking on the next morning. I guess HAL should stop selling alcohol also.

I find it hard to believe that any family booking a cruise will be book HAL because the Specialty restaurants are offering 50% off for children under 12. 

Agree 100%

[cruisemom42]

5 minutes ago, Laminator said:

On my last cruise on the NS I saw many more misbehaved ADULTS than children. All alcohol related.

 

Exactly so. People are people no matter what. I don't tend to take cruises where there are a lot of children onboard (I avoid holidays and school breaks and short Caribbean/Mexican cruises.)

 

That said, the most egregious experience I've ever had in a specialty restaurant on HAL (or any line for that matter) had to do with an elderly and very over-served woman who, when approaching the check-in station for PG, spilled the entire contents of her cocktail on my shoes. And apparently didn't even notice she'd done it. (Or at least pretended not to.)

 

HAL offered to try to clean my shoes but they were a peau de soie (fabric) pump and were basically ruined....

 

 

[horseymike]

44 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Everything is a "cash grab". Because making a profit is sort of an important step to being in business.

I agree. I just like it better when it is included in the cruise fare , this way I know what I am paying and it is done once the cruise is paid for. My personal preference.

[Hllb]

1 hour ago, Colorado Klutch said:

 

Why not? Well because all too many parents aren't like you. They will sit and stare at their phones while their little darlings dump the salt and pepper shakers, throw food, scream, yell, holler, whine, get under the table and run around the restaurant. When they do eventually leave, they leave behind a large "blast zone" of debris which the staff must spend a lot of time cleaning. At restaurants ashore, this is all for a $2.00 tip or maybe no tip at all.

 

These are the same parents who sit in hotel hot tubs drinking beer, smoking and staring at their phones while their little darlings run around, scream, yell and dive into the water. (This all takes place directly below the big sign which reads, "NO ALCOHOL, NO SMOKING, NO PERSONS UNDER 18".) 

Discriminating against a class of people for a few bad eggs…hmmm….

[Hllb]

1 hour ago, horseymike said:

If people with kids do not go in at all they feel they are missing that revenue , by offering the discounted kids prices they entice some families in.

I don’t think that’s the majority. As parents, most either 1. Want a night to themselves and aren’t bringing the kids anyway 2. Were  planning on bringing their kids all along or 3. Have no intention of paying for food on a cruise and still won’t.

 

sure, they may get an increase in patrons, but I think it would at best be a wash financially, with the reduction in costs for kids already going. This point is of course debatable, and I could be wrong on the numbers.

[Hllb]

55 minutes ago, Taters said:

I love kids, I truly do, but I still book cruises that I think not a lot of kids will be on.  I don't think this will affect any of the cruises I'm currently booked on. 

 

On Friday we'll board Oosterdam in San Antonio, Chile for a 17 night cruise up the west coast of South America, through the Panama Canal, to Aruba, then into Ft. Lauderdale.  I am betting there will be less than 10 children onboard.  So this change will not be bothersome at all.  If you're not too keen on sailing with loads of kids, avoid holiday cruises and cruises in the height of summer.

Seems perfectly logical to me. That’s how it should be.

[shakuyi]

Is HAL an adults only cruise line? No. So why are there people complaining about this? Feels like those people would be happier on an adults only cruise. You are on vacation just enjoy yourself. If a kid is being rowdy at dinner just tell your waiter at best you get a free meal out of it or the other party gets kicked out. Its quite obvious a lot of their money comes from all the extras so unless you see the kids club and menus going away assume you will see more of it. As a parent I would indeed take my child to a specialty dinner knowing this because my kid won't care for steak he will gladly eat the free mac and cheese and would even prefer it.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I think the problem with the sign is the Encouraging of bringing the young kids to the specialty dining, Children have always been allowed. But in one hand you are encouraging children at 50% off or free if ordering from a Kids Menu (Who knew they had a Kids Menu???)  Then the other hand you can only order an Appetizer, a soup or a salad or we are going to charge you..... The Holland America Business Model definitely needs an over haul. They need to get back to the roots that made them a premium cruise line.

[OlsSalt]

This is how I remember our first Christmas cruise on the Oosterdam, when one knows up front and expects lots of kids on board.

 

The moms got the job of constantly running the kids in and out of the main dining room, simply because the longer onboard dining times were just too much for the younger kids to handle. 

 

However, I also thought HAL was missing a bet not teaching table etiquette courses to young people in this more formal dining setting, as one of their onboard youth activity programs.

[cruisemom42]

31 minutes ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

But in one hand you are encouraging children at 50% off or free if ordering from a Kids Menu (Who knew they had a Kids Menu???) 

 

It's the same Kids Menu from the MDR.

 

[PACD_JG]

Welp.  There goes my suggestion...

 

[albingirl]

51 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

This is how I remember our first Christmas cruise on the Oosterdam, when one knows up front and expects lots of kids on board.

 

The moms got the job of constantly running the kids in and out of the main dining room, simply because the longer onboard dining times were just too much for the younger kids to handle. 

 

However, I also thought HAL was missing a bet not teaching table etiquette courses to young people in this more formal dining setting, as one of their onboard youth activity programs.

I don't think many kids would say ok to an etiquette course while onboard as a youth activity. But, my opinion only. 

[Real NHDOC]

HAL has essentially been de-facto adult only by not making the ships or itineraries particularly appealing to families with children which was the reason we liked it. Until recently they begrudgingly accepted families but you could tell it was outside of their expertise.
 

I don’t hate children just would prefer to enjoy peace and quiet without them. Now it seems that by offering “kids cruise free” and incentives to have children come to the specialty dining restaurants they are trying to broaden their appeal but I don’t think they should or need to. There are plenty of people 50+ without small children who want to experience cruises with few or no children aboard. 

[DaveOKC]

I just do not see the "average" child sitting through a long meal at the Pinnacle for example.  Far too slow and boring for them.  The MDR is tough enough for them!

 

[Laminator]

19 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

HAL has essentially been de-facto adult only by not making the ships or itineraries particularly appealing to families with children which was the reason we liked it. Until recently they begrudgingly accepted families but you could tell it was outside of their expertise.
 

I don’t hate children just would prefer to enjoy peace and quiet without them. Now it seems that by offering “kids cruise free” and incentives to have children come to the specialty dining restaurants they are trying to broaden their appeal but I don’t think they should or need to. There are plenty of people 50+ without small children who want to experience cruises with few or no children aboard. 

That philosophy has gotten them in the predicament they are in today as their older demographic is dying off. Many also do not have the disposable income that the younger generations have at their disposal.  

[Real NHDOC]

11 minutes ago, Laminator said:

That philosophy has gotten them in the predicament they are in today as their older demographic is dying off. Many also do not have the disposable income that the younger generations have at their disposal.  

With all due respect HALs woes are due to COVID. The cruise line was very profitable up until 2020. All of the cruise lines are now scrambling for revenue to bail themselves out of the massive debt they incurred to stay alive through the shutdown. It has nothing to do with their demographics. 

[cruisemom42]

10 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

Until recently they begrudgingly accepted families but you could tell it was outside of their expertise.

 

As far back as the launch of the Vista class (2001) HAL has promoted themselves as "family friendly". I know because my parents booked a family cruise on Zuiderdam in 2002 -- when I protested, my mom showed me stories in Travel newsletters saying this was the start of a new era for HAL with larger, "family friendly" ships, kids clubs, etc. I still have one of the articles in a scrapbook.

 

[Real NHDOC]

22 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

As far back as the launch of the Vista class (2001) HAL has promoted themselves as "family friendly". I know because my parents booked a family cruise on Zuiderdam in 2002 -- when I protested, my mom showed me stories in Travel newsletters saying this was the start of a new era for HAL with larger, "family friendly" ships, kids clubs, etc. I still have one of the articles in a scrapbook.

 

And they found the magic bullet last year - give them free passage. Until then the number of children aboard non holiday cruises was minimal. Now we’re on Nieuw Statendam and there are 240 children under 18 aboard.  So great success for HAL but most of the kids are bored senseless, so not so good for them. Hopefully this will just be another learning experience for HAL 

[Riversedge]

We were on the Nieuw Statendam a couple of weeks ago.  We knew there would be a few children this of the time of year.  We just weren’t expecting crying babies and noisy children running around the specialty restaurants. That couldn’t have been fun for the parents either.  Why subject small children to a meal that lasts an hour and a half or more?  That seems cruel to those children who were constantly being reprimanded by their parents but were really too small to sit that long.  Everyone suffered.  I don’t like the 50% off because it encourages that.  I have no problem with children dining next to me in an expensive restaurant provided they are old enough to behave responsibly. We took our children when they were young (not HAL) and they were taught to sit and behave.  

[LAFFNVEGAS]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

As far back as the launch of the Vista class (2001) HAL has promoted themselves as "family friendly". I know because my parents booked a family cruise on Zuiderdam in 2002 -- when I protested, my mom showed me stories in Travel newsletters saying this was the start of a new era for HAL with larger, "family friendly" ships, kids clubs, etc. I still have one of the articles in a scrapbook.

 

Yes, remember when they built that Kids Club Teen area on the Ryndam, when they did the big remodel and did a live broadcast of the remodel launch of the Ryndam. I even found the post here on CC for Oct 15, 2004. They made a bid deal of the new youth area for teens. This was over 18 years ago.  

 

[LAFFNVEGAS]

31 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

And they found the magic bullet last year - give them free passage. Until then the number of children aboard non holiday cruises was minimal. Now we’re on Nieuw Statendam and there are 240 children under 18 aboard.  So great success for HAL but most of the kids are bored senseless, so not so good for them. Hopefully this will just be another learning experience for HAL 

Actually HAL has been offering Kids Free or Third and Fourth Passenger free promos for many years. This is definitely not something that just started last year. It has been at least 20 years this promo has gone on to help fill their ships. What I think has happened is that the competition that would normally have more kids such as Royal and even Carnival has gotten a lot more expnsice so families who want to bring their kids along saw the lower pricing with Holland America. Holland America has some of the lowest pricing for a quad stateroom, actually much lower than Carnival for similiar voyage and drastically cheaper that Royal and NCL. I am not even mentioning the Mouse, those prices compare with Seabourn lol.

[shakuyi]

Kids aren't really "free" on the cruise. As soon as you enter in that you have 3rd or 4th passenger the price of passenger 1 and 2 increases. They run those "promotions" on all cruise lines that are family friendly but you see the same thing with the price going up. Its not free to me when you increase the price of passenger 1 and 2 to almost account for the cost of passenger 3.

[Real NHDOC]

They never promoted the 3/4 guest as a “kid’s cruise free” until fall of 2021. Prior to that the promotion wasn’t targeted to bring children per-se. Targeting a promotion using that term was new. And it’s working. To the detriment of those who liked HAL for the way it was. 

[Real NHDOC]

38 minutes ago, Riversedge said:

We were on the Nieuw Statendam a couple of weeks ago.  We knew there would be a few children this of the time of year.  We just weren’t expecting crying babies and noisy children running around the specialty restaurants. That couldn’t have been fun for the parents either.  Why subject small children to a meal that lasts an hour and a half or more?  That seems cruel to those children who were constantly being reprimanded by their parents but were really too small to sit that long.  Everyone suffered.  I don’t like the 50% off because it encourages that.  I have no problem with children dining next to me in an expensive restaurant provided they are old enough to behave responsibly. We took our children when they were young (not HAL) and they were taught to sit and behave.  

My point, exactly.