Appendicitis (really?!)

[HardestyHouse]

Eight days before a Carnival cruise, my appendix darn near burst. Emergency surgery. I am out for the cruise -- can't lift anything heavy for six weeks. Sadly, I cancel. The drama unfolds...because we were three to a cabin, Carnival removes me as a passenger and then proceeds to upcharge the other two passengers still going. I receive very little refund -- believe it was only port taxes. Basically, I am told, my money financed their upcharge. File an insurance claim and waited. Today I was emailed my claim status. It's an $89 refund.

Anyone experienced who can tell me what happened here?! WHAT is the point of insurance?! I am prepared to eat the cost of the trip, but not without making sure that I haven't missed something important. With insurance I expected to be made whole for my costs. Sigh.

[klfrodo]

Part of the problem could be who and where you purchased the policy from.

2nd could be this: The cruise cost is (for example) the first 2 passengers pay $500 each. The 3rd pays a reduced rate (let's say $200). Now, let's say you all split the price evenly amongst yourselves (that would be $400 a piece),,, the insurance (especially if you went thru Carnival) is going to reimburse you at the 3rd person rate of $200 because there are still 2 people in the party. (How you each individually split the costs is between you 3, not the insurance company)

 

With a 3rd party insurance policy, YOU would have set your costs and filed your claim for your losses.

 

Lesson learned the hard way.

[canadianbear]

Yikes $89 refund, that’s it?  I’d be interested in knowing what kind of insurance is needed in future if 3 sharing a cabin & one cancels.  I know some have said that the others should just show up and claim ignorance if one of the party does not make the cruise. 🤷‍♀️

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HardestyHouse]

As I suspected, the prudent choice when we knew from the outset we would be three to a room would have been to go with a third party insurance provider. If only my travel agent had been privy to this information or more experienced. 

 

Yes, fully aware of the lesson learned. 

 

[HardestyHouse]

Carnival refunded a small portion as well, but sadly, the scenario did roll out as klfrodo outlined. The third person fare was incredibly low. Of course, we split the full room cost between the three of us evenly. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by HardestyHouse

[canadianbear]

1 minute ago, HardestyHouse said:

Carnival refunded a small portion as well, but sadly, the scenario did roll out as klfrodo outlined. The third person fare was incredibly low. Of course, we split the full room cost between the three of us evenly.

So sorry this happened to you.  My sister in law is going on an alaska cruise this summer and have 3 to a room.  I’ll be giving her a heads up.  

[HardestyHouse]

Thank you! I feel as though a more experienced travel agent would be aware. I missed the time with my friends from across the US 😞

 

I don't miss my appendix. Little devil.

Edited March 24, 2023 by HardestyHouse

[canadianbear]

Just now, HardestyHouse said:

Thank you! I feel as though a more experienced travel agent would be aware. I missed the time with my friends from across the US 😞

I hope you phone your TA and maybe tell her to also learn from what happened.  I’m not sure it’s a TA responsibility other than to ask if people want insurance.  We always buy it.  

[jclinard]

Please name the insurance company.

 

I constantly tell people to only take insurance recommendations from people who have filed claims.  Because taking them from people who only know how fast they deposited the checks for the premiums is stupid.

 

Of course, a number of people don't seem to agree with that philosophy...

[klfrodo]

1 hour ago, canadianbear said:

I hope you phone your TA and maybe tell her to also learn from what happened.  I’m not sure it’s a TA responsibility other than to ask if people want insurance.  We always buy it.  

I would think it is absolutely the TA's responsibility. After all, they get a very nice commission on that upsell.

[canadianbear]

15 minutes ago, klfrodo said:

I would think it is absolutely the TA's responsibility. After all, they get a very nice commission on that upsell.

They get commission but most seasoned travelers are aware they “should” have insurance but lots don’t buy it.  

[GeezerCouple]

11 minutes ago, canadianbear said:

They get commission but most seasoned travelers are aware they “should” have insurance but lots don’t buy it.  

 

And... the travel agent is NOT an insurance specialist, travel or otherwise.

Would you prefer to purchase home or car insurance from the home builder or auto manufacturer, or from an insurance agent/broker who specializes in that type of insurance?

 

We strongly recommend using a broker.  They will not be bound to one particular insurer, so they have more flexibility in helping you compare different policies and figure out which fits your particular need best.

 

GC

[klfrodo]

18 minutes ago, canadianbear said:

They get commission but most seasoned travelers are aware they “should” have insurance but lots don’t buy it.  

My opinion only is that if they are going to sell it, and receive a commission, then they are ethically bound to understand it, help with the claim if the client asks, educate the client, and explain to the client why they're only getting $89 back instead of the expected amount.

[canadianbear]

1 minute ago, klfrodo said:

My opinion only is that if they are going to sell it, and receive a commission, then they are ethically bound to understand it, help with the claim if the client asks, educate the client, and explain to the client why they're only getting $89 back instead of the expected amount.

I agree.  We always buy insurance but not from our TA.

[HardestyHouse]

7 hours ago, jclinard said:

Please name the insurance company.

 

I constantly tell people to only take insurance recommendations from people who have filed claims.  Because taking them from people who only know how fast they deposited the checks for the premiums is stupid.

 

Of course, a number of people don't seem to agree with that philosophy...

AON

[venussuz]

3 minutes ago, HardestyHouse said:

AON

I knew it was going to be Aon. You might want to file a complaint with your state's (or territory's) insurance commission. We just had to do so after waiting 9 months for payment on Covid interruptions on a June TA. We haven't been paid anything despite filing two days after getting home in June 2022.

[Jersey42]

8 hours ago, venussuz said:

I knew it was going to be Aon. You might want to file a complaint with your state's (or territory's) insurance commission. We just had to do so after waiting 9 months for payment on Covid interruptions on a June TA. We haven't been paid anything despite filing two days after getting home in June 2022.

@HardestyHouse - Contacting your state's insurance commission is often a good idea for actual travel insurance, but it unfortunately will most likely be a waste of time in your case.  

 

Carnival's Vacation Protection Plan is a combination of Travel Insurance (underwritten by Nationwide) and non-travel insurance benefits (from Carnival and LiveTravel).  Claims (for all parts of the plan) are administrated by Aon.  The Trip Cancelation feature (for covered and non covered reasons) is a non-insurance feature provided by Carnival Cruise Line.  So your state insurance commission probably won't help you with trip cancelation benefits.  It is all spelled out legally in the fine print.

https://www.carnival.com/about-carnival/vacation-protection.aspx

 

Here are some additional insights from Steve at TripInsuranceStore.com

https://tripinsurancestore.com/travel-insurance-vs-travel-supplier-waiver-plans/

 

[HardestyHouse]

2 hours ago, Jersey42 said:

@HardestyHouse - Contacting your state's insurance commission is often a good idea for actual travel insurance, but it unfortunately will most likely be a waste of time in your case.  

 

Carnival's Vacation Protection Plan is a combination of Travel Insurance (underwritten by Nationwide) and non-travel insurance benefits (from Carnival and LiveTravel).  Claims (for all parts of the plan) are administrated by Aon.  The Trip Cancelation feature (for covered and non covered reasons) is a non-insurance feature provided by Carnival Cruise Line.  So your state insurance commission probably won't help you with trip cancelation benefits.  It is all spelled out legally in the fine print.

https://www.carnival.com/about-carnival/vacation-protection.aspx

 

Here are some additional insights from Steve at TripInsuranceStore.com

https://tripinsurancestore.com/travel-insurance-vs-travel-supplier-waiver-plans/

 

Excellent information! Thank you.... Is this type of "insurance" unique to Carnival? I've only cruised twice. The other was Royal Caribbean and all went smoothly, so no claim.

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by HardestyHouse

[GeezerCouple]

1 hour ago, Jersey42 said:

@HardestyHouse - Contacting your state's insurance commission is often a good idea for actual travel insurance, but it unfortunately will most likely be a waste of time in your case.  

 

Carnival's Vacation Protection Plan is a combination of Travel Insurance (underwritten by Nationwide) and non-travel insurance benefits (from Carnival and LiveTravel).  Claims (for all parts of the plan) are administrated by Aon.  The Trip Cancelation feature (for covered and non covered reasons) is a non-insurance feature provided by Carnival Cruise Line.  So your state insurance commission probably won't help you with trip cancelation benefits.  It is all spelled out legally in the fine print.

https://www.carnival.com/about-carnival/vacation-protection.aspx

 

Here are some additional insights from Steve at TripInsuranceStore.com

https://tripinsurancestore.com/travel-insurance-vs-travel-supplier-waiver-plans/

 

 

Jersey42 raises a very important point!

 

In some cases, and possibly often when from the cruiseline or another vendor (bundled with a trip), if you look at the wording, it may not include the word "insurance".  It may be a vacation "protection" offer or perhaps some sort of "guarantee/assurance", etc.

 

IF it does *not* include the word "INSURANCE", chances are very good (er, bad!) that it is not, in fact, insurance.  The same protections don't apply, and it's also likely that the "terms" are quite different if one compares carefully.

In that case, not only is the traveler probably getting less helpful "coverage", but the state insurance commissioner's office/etc., probably won't be able to help, as it wouldn't be "regulated insurance".

 

We have always purchase our travel insurance from a third party vendor (in our case, Travel Insured, through TripInsuranceStore) after reading about all of this almost 10 years ago, just before our first "big trip" (non-business trip!) after our honeymoon.  And thank goodness, as that cruise/resort combo was cancelled at almost the very last moment, and was one of our largest claims.  Anyway, for several years, neither of us realized that we had "insurance" but some of the other types of "coverages" being discussed here might *not* be actual "insurance".  I had just assume it was ALL "insurance"!

 

Point is, if the "coverage" isn't insurance, it also isn't "regulated", so I suppose anything goes, or, at least, anything the vendor can get away with...?

 

We were lucky with that first claim.  We had insurance that covered pre-existing conditions.  We aren't sure if what happened was or wasn't due to a pre-existing condtion, but we can very easily imagine that a vendor would try to claim it was, and we'd have a hard time proving otherwise.  Fortunately, when we spoke with TIS folks (several times!), they mentioned that, among other things.  Given that we both have assorted "things" that developed as we, er, "grew up" 😉 we made certain that all of our travel insurance covers pre-existing conditions, full stop.

 

It's difficult enough that the actual insurance can be difficult to understand at first, but add to that the coverages that aren't even actual insurance, and the situation is just asking for confusion or worse!

 

NOTE: That Carnival link Jersey42 included above leads to a description of "Carnival Vacation Protection".

The first one listed is:

 

"TRIP CANCELLATION

(*Cancellation Fee Waiver Program non-insurance feature provided by Carnival

Cruise Line)"

 

The next part listed *is* "travel insurance".

The third part listed is, again, "non-insurance services..."

 

GC

 

[HardestyHouse]

21 hours ago, klfrodo said:

Part of the problem could be who and where you purchased the policy from.

2nd could be this: The cruise cost is (for example) the first 2 passengers pay $500 each. The 3rd pays a reduced rate (let's say $200). Now, let's say you all split the price evenly amongst yourselves (that would be $400 a piece),,, the insurance (especially if you went thru Carnival) is going to reimburse you at the 3rd person rate of $200 because there are still 2 people in the party. (How you each individually split the costs is between you 3, not the insurance company)

 

With a 3rd party insurance policy, YOU would have set your costs and filed your claim for your losses.

 

Reading the terms of the "Carnival Vacation Protection Package" ...

 

Carnival Cancellation Fee Waiver refunds are also provided if you are charged a change in occupancy/ single supplement charge as a result of your traveling companion’s cancellation due to one of the reasons cited above.

My TA told me that if I were to ask for a full refund from Carnival, each of my friends would then have to pay about $400 each to Carnival. Had we done so, after reading the above statement, they could have then claimed this amount from insurance, correct?  Is anyone else getting this result from reading and applying the terms.

It is unfortunate that I did not have my wits about me in the days after the surgery, but who does! I relied on my TA. 

[klfrodo]

33 minutes ago, HardestyHouse said:

My TA told me that if I were to ask for a full refund from Carnival, each of my friends would then have to pay about $400 each to Carnival. Had we done so, after reading the above statement, they could have then claimed this amount from insurance, correct?  Is anyone else getting this result from reading and applying the terms.

It is unfortunate that I did not have my wits about me in the days after the surgery, but who does! I relied on my TA. 

That is my understanding as well.

My next step would be 2 things.

1. Never use this TA again. Incompetent comes to mind.

2. Consider checking out Steve at the following website for your next Travel Insurance needs.

Get the Best Trip Insurance Details, Advice (tripinsurancestore.com)

 

In fact, if you find yourself with some downtime, read thru his blogs and FAQ section. You'll learn more about Travel Insurance than you ever thought you would need.

 

 

Off topic side story.

Road trips, Vegas trips, weekend in Miami trips, I never considered travel insurance. Why would I right?

My BIL was a motorcycle rider who used to get involved in long distance endurance rides. During one of these rides, he ran into a storm and the worst possible thing happened. When his wife went to claim his body, the medical insurance didn't cover repatriation of remains (pay to bring the body home). Due to the financial costs, she had to cremate his remains, and then could bring him home to his final resting place.

Edited March 25, 2023 by klfrodo

[HardestyHouse]

10 minutes ago, klfrodo said:

That is my understanding as well.

My next step would be 2 things.

1. Never use this TA again. Incompetent comes to mind.

2. Consider checking out Steve at the following website for your next Travel Insurance needs.

Get the Best Trip Insurance Details, Advice (tripinsurancestore.com)

 

In fact, if you find yourself with some downtime, read thru his blogs and FAQ section. You'll learn more about Travel Insurance than you ever thought you would need.

For certain on #1. For certain.

Thanks for the info in #2.

[drbeamer]

17 hours ago, HardestyHouse said:

AON

UGH

[drbeamer]

17 hours ago, venussuz said:

I knew it was going to be Aon. You might want to file a complaint with your state's (or territory's) insurance commission. We just had to do so after waiting 9 months for payment on Covid interruptions on a June TA. We haven't been paid anything despite filing two days after getting home in June 2022.

@venussuzWe FINALLY got our reimbursement after filing complaint with the state insurance commission. What an ordeal. I hope you get yours soon

Edited March 25, 2023 by drbeamer

[Jersey42]

5 hours ago, HardestyHouse said:

Excellent information! Thank you.... Is this type of "insurance" unique to Carnival? I've only cruised twice. The other was Royal Caribbean and all went smoothly, so no claim.

Others have already provided some good insights, and as you have seen, the simple answer is this is not unique to the Carnival Vacation Protection Plan.  Here are some specifics and comments.

• All cruise line "insurance" plans that I have seen are a combination of true insurance (subject to regulation by each state), and non-insurance (non regulated) benefits.
• If the line offers a Cancel For Any Reason (CFAR) benefit, this is always a non-insurance benefit provided by the cruise line.
• Cancelation for a covered reason is sometimes a non-insurance benefit, and sometimes an insurance benefit offered by the insurance underwriter. This is always stated in the plan document, and usually on the web page.
• Most plans offer some sort of an emergency assistance hotline.  This is always a non-insurance benefit.
• MSC is the only plan I have seen that is mostly true travel insurance.  But, it is also the only plan I've seen that does not offer CFAR.  They do have an concierge hotline which is their only non-insurance benefit.
• Nationwide or Arch are the insurance underwriters for most of the plans.  Aon Affinity is the administrator for all of these plans. This includes plans from lines owned by Carnival Corp, Royal Caribbean, NCL and Disney.  MSC and Viking use Generali as the underwriter, with different plan administrators.
• Aon Affinity is never the insurance underwriter.  They just manage the plans and claims (insurance and non-insurance) for the cruise line.