Gay meet up P&O Arvia

[Britboys]

38 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I have a granddaughter who is in a same sex relationship and who has attended some gay pride gatherings.  However whilst I have no prejudice at all against gays, I still do not understand why they feel it necessary to have such gatherings. I feel no desire to flaunt my sexual preference, or attend overt gatherings lauding them.

It isn't about flaunting at all. It is about visibility and the ongoing search for full acceptance. Without the pioneering groups who did, to a degree, flaunt, we wouldn't have the anti-discrimination laws we have now, we wouldn't see LGBT+ couples on tv game shows and we wouldn't have LGBT+ characters on tv. Neither would we have the opportunity to be in a Civil Partnership or Marriage.

As a man in his sixties, I still steel myself before discussing my life with strangers as I cannot be sure how they are going to react. Whilst much of the Western World has moved incredibly far in how they accept LGBT+ people, there is still discrimination the world over. Sadly, as I mentioned earlier, there is also some backward movement happening in some countries to try and take away the rights that have been won over the years.

Taking all the above into account, perhaps it will help you understand why LGBT+ people might want a little space at times on cruises where we can all feel totally relaxed.

[Selbourne]

3 minutes ago, welshy74 said:

The post should not be taken down as its a good reference for the future but certain posts from a TerrierJohn and GSPG need to go.  

Whilst I don’t agree with some of the views expressed by others, I respect their right to express them. I have a real problem with the ‘cancel culture’ these days, where if anybody says anything that is seen to be ‘non PC’ they are ostracised. 

[Britboys]

1 minute ago, Selbourne said:

Whilst I don’t agree with some of the views expressed by others, I respect their right to express them. I have a real problem with the ‘cancel culture’ these days, where if anybody says anything that is seen to be ‘non PC’ they are ostracised. 

And it's better to know who your 'enemies' are...

[Host Sharon]

I have read the entire thread and, since no one has reported any offensive posts, feel it is unnecessary to remove. 

[welshy74]

1 minute ago, Selbourne said:

Whilst I don’t agree with some of the views expressed by others, I respect their right to express them. I have a real problem with the ‘cancel culture’ these days, where if anybody says anything that is seen to be ‘non PC’ they are ostracised. 

the tip is.. don't be non PC, especially if the subject does not have anything to do with you.  There are things I do not agree with and views that might not be seen as PC, but I would not hijack a post in order to view them.   Its also not cancel culture to remove a post if its seen as hate speech, homophobic, racist etc.  

No one is perfect, but this debate needn't happen if two people had not jumped in to unnecessarily raise views that would clearly ignite a debate. 

[Britboys]

4 minutes ago, Host Sharon said:

I have read the entire thread and, since no one has reported any offensive posts, feel it is unnecessary to remove. 

Thank you Sharon. I actually feel this has turned into a useful, informative and hopefully thought-provoking thread.

[Selbourne]

26 minutes ago, welshy74 said:

the tip is.. don't be non PC, especially if the subject does not have anything to do with you.  There are things I do not agree with and views that might not be seen as PC, but I would not hijack a post in order to view them.   Its also not cancel culture to remove a post if its seen as hate speech, homophobic, racist etc.  

No one is perfect, but this debate needn't happen if two people had not jumped in to unnecessarily raise views that would clearly ignite a debate. 

The point I am making is that whilst I also don’t agree with the views expressed by the two posters that you have an issue with, I don’t believe that they are being homophobic. They are just asking legitimate questions that relate to the subject matter of the thread, which they are perfectly entitled to do.
 

We live in a free speech democracy and not everyone agrees with each other on all things. We have relatives in their 80s who sometimes say things that are quite outrageous to the ears of our adult children, and even quite shocking for us on occasions, yet they aren’t meant with malice. They are from a different generation. For clarity, I’m not saying that with reference to the two posters that you have an issue with! 

 

If we get to the stage where those who have a contrary view are in fear of expressing them for fear of being attacked, then we become no better than Russia, China or North Korea.

 

As always, Andrew (Britboys) sums this issue up the most eloquently in post #81 and I agree with his sentiment 100%.

[welshy74]

I do see your point but I think sometimes a line gets crossed and one poster in particular crossed that line (in my opinion) and not for the first time on the P&O board either. Question is, where is that line?  The line is different for all of us.   One post was clearly there to ignite by using terms like 'woke brigade'  as if woke is a negative term, which I do not think it is if you understand the true meaning and not what the daily mail has twisted it into.  

Free speech and basic human decency sometimes go against each other.   How you choose to use your right to free speech is what makes you the better person. 

[Adawn47]

1 hour ago, welshy74 said:

the tip is.. don't be non PC, especially if the subject does not have anything to do with you.  There are things I do not agree with and views that might not be seen as PC, but I would not hijack a post in order to view them.   Its also not cancel culture to remove a post if its seen as hate speech, homophobic, racist etc.  

No one is perfect, but this debate needn't happen if two people had not jumped in to unnecessarily raise views that would clearly ignite a debate. 

I do understand your point of view, even if you think an old bird like me can't, but can I put my spin on some of the wording of some posts. 

Homosexuality is not new, and even us oldies that you think don't understand have had friends and/or relatives that were gay. The difference being that until 1967 it was a criminal offence, punishable by imprisonment, and was something that couldn't be spoken of openly. I know I can't expect you to really understand as you were born into a different society, but please don't equate some posts as homophobic. In this 'cancel culture' it can be very difficult to find the right words that won't offend someone no matter how hard you try. I know you think I'm jumping in too, as you hinted earlier, but don't assume that because of my age I have not lived and don't understand, because believe me I have, and I do.

I shall now leave this thread as I obviously don't 'fit' into your box.

Avril

Edited March 28, 2023 by Adawn47
spelling

[yorkshirephil]

1 minute ago, Adawn47 said:

I do understand your point of view, even if you think an old bird like me can't, but can I put my spin on some of the wording of some posts. 

Homosexuality is not new, and even us oldies that you think don't understand have had friends and/or relatives that were gay. The difference being that until 1967 it was a criminal offence, punishable by imprisonment, and was something that couldn't be spoken of openly. I know I can't expect you to really understand as you were born into a different society, but please don't equate some posts as homophic. In this 'cancel culture' it can be very difficult to find the right words that won't offend someone no matter how hard you try. I know think I'm jumping in too, as you hinted earlier, but don't assume that because of my age I have not lived and don't understand, because believe me I have, and I do.

I shall now leave this thread as I obviously don't 'fit' into your box.

Avril

Right on Avril, there will always be prejudices of all kinds, how many times do you here "they are old they don't understand" or words are twisted to suit, we are all guilty All it needs is a bit of tolerance and understanding. These forums are not always easy to get points across especially when things are misinterpreted and lets face it we are never all going to agree but most of us manage to rub along.

[welshy74]

7 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

I do understand your point of view, even if you think an old bird like me can't, but can I put my spin on some of the wording of some posts. 

Homosexuality is not new, and even us oldies that you think don't understand have had friends and/or relatives that were gay. The difference being that until 1967 it was a criminal offence, punishable by imprisonment, and was something that couldn't be spoken of openly. I know I can't expect you to really understand as you were born into a different society, but please don't equate some posts as homophobic. In this 'cancel culture' it can be very difficult to find the right words that won't offend someone no matter how hard you try. I know think I'm jumping in too, as you hinted earlier, but don't assume that because of my age I have not lived and don't understand, because believe me I have, and I do.

I shall now leave this thread as I obviously don't 'fit' into your box.

Avril

I think that was very nicely put, and I certainly do not discredit your generation.. I also think you presume I am younger than I actually am.. hahah.. I will take that! 🙂 

I did not like your last sentence, I thought it was unnecessary and you clearly missed my point. 

[Britboys]

12 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

I do understand your point of view, even if you think an old bird like me can't, but can I put my spin on some of the wording of some posts. 

Homosexuality is not new, and even us oldies that you think don't understand have had friends and/or relatives that were gay. The difference being that until 1967 it was a criminal offence, punishable by imprisonment, and was something that couldn't be spoken of openly. I know I can't expect you to really understand as you were born into a different society, but please don't equate some posts as homophobic. In this 'cancel culture' it can be very difficult to find the right words that won't offend someone no matter how hard you try. I know think I'm jumping in too, as you hinted earlier, but don't assume that because of my age I have not lived and don't understand, because believe me I have, and I do.

I shall now leave this thread as I obviously don't 'fit' into your box.

Avril

Although we have never met, from your responses to various posts of mine Avril, I am in no doubt at all that you are not homophobic. I hope you get to read this post...

Age is not particularly a factor. On my first cruise after Tony died I was taking breakfast in the mdr. I was on a table with two other other couples who had both previously done World Cruises to celebrate their Golden Weddings. One elderly (looking) lady asked if I had ever been married and when I explained that I hadn't been married but was with my partner for 26 years before he had died earlier that year, her immediate response was "oh you must be missing him terribly" and it was obviously a very genuine and compassionate response. I can't tell you how much that meant to me and as you can see, I still remember that kindness very clearly over 10 years later...

Edited March 28, 2023 by Britboys

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, welshy74 said:

Oh dear TerrierJohn (my boyfriend is also a town fan BTW) 

Are you against other gatherings - Christian Bible reading get togethers, Singles get togethers, Friends of Bill W, and the many other groups that pop up from time to time?  On one cruise we even had a Welsh cruisers meet up arranged on facebook.. would that upset you too?  

If you don't wish to 'flaunt' your sexual preference I presume you never hold your wife's hand, introduce her as your wife, tell people about your family, have a nice photo with your arm around your wife (or female partner if you are not married).  

I was lucky my grandfather, when he was alive, had a very different view to yours.  

Lighten up John.. LGBT+ gatherings have ZERO impact on your cruise.. but you would be more then welcome to join one of them if you like.  You do seem very interested in the subject. 

I suppose I am against bible thumping gatherings, but I fully understand why AA would want to have meetings while on holiday, singles get togethers also seem to be a sensible idea for those travelling alone. I suppose I do understand why  Lgbt+ want to have get togethers, especially whilst prejudice is rife, but I happen to think that the high profile "Gay Pride" events do not really help the LGBT community to fully integrate.

[welshy74]

8 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I suppose I am against bible thumping gatherings, but I fully understand why AA would want to have meetings while on holiday, singles get togethers also seem to be a sensible idea for those travelling alone. I suppose I do understand why  Lgbt+ want to have get togethers, especially whilst prejudice is rife, but I happen to think that the high profile "Gay Pride" events do not really help the LGBT community to fully integrate.

Honestly the gay pride event on Celebrity was fantastic!!  So many people joined the party and we made so many new friends.  I think people appreciated it was different and something they have never experienced on a cruise ship before.. like one big carnival.  You would have been more than welcome to join in..  have a drink.. a good laugh and just be part of something.  It did not take over the ship, so it was not forced on people.  I think it was the opposite to what you said, It helped people integrate with us and vice versa.  

I cannot see P&O doing it though.. Celebrity is a lot more LGBT focused.  

 

Live and let live, John.  There is nothing wrong with groups and gatherings, whatever the subject.  

Maybe you and my boyf can start a group - Town fans at sea!!  I can imagine it will be a bit depressing at the moment though.  😂

[grapau27]

25 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Although we have never met, from your responses to various posts of mine Avril, I am in no doubt at all that you are not homophobic. I hope you get to read this post...

Age is not particularly a factor. On my first cruise after Tony died I was taking breakfast in the mdr. I was on a table with two other other couples who had both previously done World Cruises to celebrate their Golden Weddings. One elderly (looking) lady asked if I had ever been married and when I explained that I hadn't been married but was with my partner for 26 years before he had died earlier that year, her immediate response was "oh you must be missing him terribly" and it was obviously a very genuine and compassionate response. I can't tell you how much that meant to me and as you can see, I still remember that kindness very clearly over 10 years later...

I'm so sorry that you lost your partner Andrew and the prejudice you experience from some people.

Both Pauline and I agree it is the niceness of the person that matters more than anything else.

Graham  

[zap99]

43 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

Right on Avril, there will always be prejudices of all kinds, how many times do you here "they are old they don't understand" or words are twisted to suit, we are all guilty All it needs is a bit of tolerance and understanding. These forums are not always easy to get points across especially when things are misinterpreted and lets face it we are never all going to agree but most of us manage to rub along.

I'm 73, old, I don't understand say the woke folk...As somebody who was a teenager in London in the 1960's I can assure you that this debate is not new, but is getting a bit boring. Prejudice?. Not in my world.

Edited March 28, 2023 by zap99

[Dermotsgirl]

2 hours ago, Host Sharon said:

A bit like me always being asked if I have grandchildren 🙂 Grrrrrrr.

This happens to me and my husband.  When asked if we have children  or grandchildren, I say that we haven’t, then they look embarrassed, so I feel compelled to explain it was a personal choice, in order to reassure them that they haven’t reminded us of a sadness.

 

I don’t really enjoy small talk, and, as @grapau27said, we prefer to keep ourselves to ourselves when on board. If I feel obliged to make small talk, I try to keep it to ‘where do you come from’ and people’s impressions of the cruise. It’s less intrusive, and I think more interesting than people’s children and grandchildren, who always seem to be high flying over achievers! 
 

On a different note, I think this thread is very interesting, and have particularly appreciated some of the personal perspectives. 

[bobstheboy]

As a former RN sailor in the 60's I well remember some shipmates who we knew were gay but were very careful. One Petty Officer was seen in a bar, by an officer, kissing a man. He was arrested on his return to the ship, flown back to UK. Court Martial followed and he was reduced to the ranks, lost any pension rights, sentenced to 12 months imprisonment and dishonorably discharged. The officer who reported him was rightly ostracized, unfortunately once he had reported it to the Commander, it was inevitable what happened.

 

Nice to see the totally different attitude in todays Navy.

[welshy74]

7 minutes ago, bobstheboy said:

As a former RN sailor in the 60's I well remember some shipmates who we knew were gay but were very careful. One Petty Officer was seen in a bar, by an officer, kissing a man. He was arrested on his return to the ship, flown back to UK. Court Martial followed and he was reduced to the ranks, lost any pension rights, sentenced to 12 months imprisonment and dishonorably discharged. The officer who reported him was rightly ostracized, unfortunately once he had reported it to the Commander, it was inevitable what happened.

 

Nice to see the totally different attitude in todays Navy.

That is awful!   Sadly some people would love to see such rules returned.   😢 We really do have a rotten past in this country. 

[kalos]

My take on this is ,your walking along when you see an elderly lady who has a toddler 

with them who runs into a duck pond . Horrified she screams at you to help , problem is 

you cannot swim ,but you see two guys walking by .

Do you now shout them to help ? They get the child out quick as a flash .

What do you do next ? Take note of their skin colour, sexual orientation and which footie

team they support or their nationality  .Or just say thanks to a fellow human being who

helped out .

Anyone know of anyone who would say they don't like any of Elton Johns music because

he got married to another man ? No one is perfect ,you will find good and bad in all walks 

of life but until that person does you harm just accept they are just another human who

one day could help you .

[Britboys]

18 minutes ago, kalos said:

My take on this is ,your walking along when you see an elderly lady who has a toddler 

with them who runs into a duck pond . Horrified she screams at you to help , problem is 

you cannot swim ,but you see two guys walking by .

Do you now shout them to help ? They get the child out quick as a flash .

What do you do next ? Take note of their skin colour, sexual orientation and which footie

team they support or their nationality  .Or just say thanks to a fellow human being who

helped out .

Anyone know of anyone who would say they don't like any of Elton Johns music because

he got married to another man ? No one is perfect ,you will find good and bad in all walks 

of life but until that person does you harm just accept they are just another human who

one day could help you .

But sadly not everyone thinks that way Kalos...

[kalos]

2 minutes ago, Britboys said:

But sadly not everyone thinks that way Kalos...

 

Tell me about it ,I used to get grief growing up simply because my family had a Scottish

background and I was singled out by my piers for it . 

It seemed anything that was not like them were fair game in those days and that's the problem,

for some we/you do not fit into their perfect world . Whatever that is ? 🙃

[Goosebear Mum]

I don’t care what colour, sexual orientation, religion, etc, etc, anyone is. But I don’t also wish to hear people go on and on about it either.  E.g. They are welcome to meet up together (e.g.) those who meet in religious settings, etc, etc, but I don’t want them coming to my front door to try and ‘sell it to me’.  Inclusion to me means acceptance (and equality) not having it rammed down my throat.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Goosebear Mum

[Cpt Pugwash]

On 3/26/2023 at 9:54 AM, goodclicks said:

 

 

On 3/26/2023 at 9:54 AM, goodclicks said:

I’ve finally booked to return to P&O in May this year, this time as a solo cruiser with a straight female friend. When I saw this objection by a fellow P&O passenger (and a few supporters) about special interest meet-ups I now wonder if I have made a mistake.  

You haven't made a mistake booking a P&O Cruise because 1. I went my first cruise and became friends with a Gay Guy and didn't even know he was Gay until he mentioned organising a Gay Meet, and that was in 2012 and 2. I will fraternise (big word for me) with anyone except people that look down there nose at others and the old P&O Forum was full of them so much i was going to cancel because i thought this was the general type of people that Cruised and me being a quite little thing 😇i would have said something. But others on the site talked me into going and i had probably the best holiday ever socialising with and laughing with the kind of people i would not normally socialise with e.g those who think 'there is only one way things should be done 'My Way'.

Anyway it doesn't matter what subject is being discussed on any online site now you will always get people saying things they would never say  out loud.

Go and enjoy yourself and like everyone else does if you don't 'click' with someone Gay or Not don't bother being in there company.

I've done it myself and i'm not Gay, i'm not perfect i'm not everybody's 'cup of tea'  but nobody should change who they are to suit other's.

It's your life not there's.

[zap99]

6 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I suppose I am against bible thumping gatherings, but I fully understand why AA would want to have meetings while on holiday, singles get togethers also seem to be a sensible idea for those travelling alone. I suppose I do understand why  Lgbt+ want to have get togethers, especially whilst prejudice is rife, but I happen to think that the high profile "Gay Pride" events do not really help the LGBT community to fully integrate.

I wonder if these meetings really help the cause. You don't see much of mothers pride nowadays.