Starlink on the NCL Breakaway - (re)testing 2.0 for rollout (again ???) hmmm - NLCH announces Starlink roll out

[mking8288]

OMG - This wasn't announced or published by Cruise Industry News on April 1st or else, I would've this would win the joke of the year 2023 winner by NCL insofar as the NCL technological innovation, soon to be under Harry Sommer's stewardship as FDR continue to collect his consultant fees & incentives.

 

Be thankful if you are sailing on the Breakaway next  or soon, too bad if you are booked on the Prima & hoping to be next - apparently, next in-line being the Viva later this year ... sometime.  Fast forward to 2024 and cross your fingers.  All that accordingly to the newly re-announced ??? deployment plans, yet to be ... 

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2023/04/84491/

https://cruiseradio.net/starlink-internet-norwegian-cruise-oceania-regent/

 

Good luck for those that is hoping otherwise for something sooner, faster and better onboard NCL ships in the near future.  Of course, if you are planning to disconnect and lock up the iPhone/smartphone in the mini-safe while on a cruise vacation, etc. etc. - this isn't news worthy & feel free to skip ahead without the necessary commentary, as this isn't for your convenience.  Just a heads up for some of us that prefer & desire connectivity at sea, for whatever reasons of our choice and some paying a hefty premium for the upcharged, unlimited streaming digital experience onboard.  

 

Not too long ago, the unofficial story was that between NCLH and Starlink, they are holding things up waiting for necessary regulatory & licensing approval to use the radio spectrum in certain ports/countries ... and that the hardware are already onboard and a matter of being connected to go live ... not fact-checked for accuracy or details.  

Edited April 6, 2023 by mking8288

[jetact]

It would be nice if we already paid for a Starlink subscription that we could just log into the one on the ship. 

[mking8288]

14 minutes ago, jetact said:

It would be nice if we already paid for a Starlink subscription that we could just log into the one on the ship. 

Right ... and, yours truly waiting for the promise that high-end smartphone (next generation ??) will gain full access to satellite signal for voice comms & text messaging, not necessary fast data connection at sea since I'm on a premium unlimited global subscription.  Wishful thinking.  

 

Of course, this is NCLH - the industry leader of ...

sail and sustain, for your convenience.  

[scar4711]

the Press release said the Viva will launch with Starlink.

 

Starlink Maritime just released a new coverage map that is now global... when this was first brought up, Canada was not covered.

 

[BirdTravels]

I still think that the cruise industry will face a rude awakening when the system is in full use. Right now, there aren't many users and you get "fake" results from "trials". Once the system gets loaded, there is still a point(s) where the satellite constellation has to connect to the real land-based internet. Even now, users on some Royal ships are reporting marginal performance,,, definitely better than Voom which was better than NCL. But not the high speed of a privately owned terminal. That interface will be come the bottle neck of the system. Elon is hoping to sign a lot of long term contracts now,,, before the system bogs down and crashes. 

[DCGuy64]

We're aboard the Breakaway this November, so we'll see how it works. Having said that, I must say I use my phone almost not at all when I'm on vacation. This isn't a big deal for me or my wife, I use my phone FAR too much when I'm not on vacation so being off-line is actually one of the things I look forward to.

[uneamie]

So they plan on installing it on Viva before Prima? Hmm! I'm sure there are all kinds of technical reasons for it that never seems to be explained. In the back of my mind I keep wondering why it has taken THIS long for it to begin with. 

[knitlady037]

Prima had the worst internet of any ship I have ever been on!

[hallux]

22 minutes ago, uneamie said:

So they plan on installing it on Viva before Prima? Hmm! I'm sure there are all kinds of technical reasons for it that never seems to be explained

One VERY technical reason - they're just building the ship with Starlink from the beginning rather than equipping it with the current tech and then stripping it out a couple months later to install Starlink.  Of course - that could lead to a LACK of internet if they can't get the approvals before Viva sets sail...

[SpacemanSpiff]

47 minutes ago, uneamie said:

So they plan on installing it on Viva before Prima? Hmm! I'm sure there are all kinds of technical reasons for it that never seems to be explained.

Seems logical to me.  The Viva is still in the shipyard, while the Prima is a moving target.

[Panhandle Couple]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

We're aboard the Breakaway this November, so we'll see how it works. Having said that, I must say I use my phone almost not at all when I'm on vacation. This isn't a big deal for me or my wife, I use my phone FAR too much when I'm not on vacation so being off-line is actually one of the things I look forward to.

I believe it went operational on Breakaway in late January.  There was a review that stated that.  I was on the Breakaway then, and several people commented on the sudden internet improvement on the last day and night.

 

[mking8288]

16 minutes ago, SpacemanSpiff said:

Seems logical to me.  The Viva is still in the shipyard, while the Prima is a moving target.

Behind the walls and viaducts, there are miles and miles of wirings for electrical and data connections - and we would be in serious trouble if the ship builders didn't take consideration for future growth & expansion needs - like running premium industrial-graded Cat-7 network cables to connect to their onboard WiFi hotspots, repeaters, switches and hardware/servers, etc. etc.   Cisco servers that are currently in use onboard the Joy, Escape, Getaway & even the "older" NCL ships all have fairly robust hardware and network servers in place - I'm doubtful that NCL needs to upgrade their access points or hotspots already deployed, i.e.  Breakaway "live" beta testing 1.0 was done fairly quickly several months ago.  End users that're onboard & got to experience it reported mostly positive results and faster connections. 

 

Upgrading and replacing the Starlink shouldn't take weeks or months to deploy ... besides, it's field tested and used by million others on a daily basis, including cruise ships of other lines around the world already.   Not expecting NCL (or other lines) to deliver 1 or 2 Gbps speed onboard while at sea over WiFi 6ax or 6ac - WiFi 4 or WiFi 5 speed would be plentiful to share on most users; and, NCL can surcharge more for a premium unlimited package.  

 

Besides, if it is needed or required for work - just "expense" it while on a cruise & claim reimbursement afterward.  Not everyone wanted to and/or need to be connected & willing to pay extra $$$ - save the bandwidth for others that do care.  On the Norwegian Joy, wait staff in the dining venues were using mini tablets to take food & drink orders in 2022 ... and a direct benefit was that, far fewer errors & mistakes at all, if any and get food on the table seemed to be a notch faster - so, yes, it does make a difference and is a win-win move.  

[disneylover89]

Curious, right now if you have an iPhone, you are able to use iMessage to message other people on the ship who also have an iPhone, does anyone know if you will no longer be able to do so once the ship has Starlink?

[uneamie]

7 hours ago, knitlady037 said:

Prima had the worst internet of any ship I have ever been on!

Figures....ugh! We will be on her in May! How do you build a brand new ship and not focus on things being a bit "better" than the last one your built? How difficult is it to get decent Internet? Sometimes I think they do this on purpose to get people to buy "upgrades". 

[knitlady037]

15 minutes ago, uneamie said:

Figures....ugh! We will be on her in May! How do you build a brand new ship and not focus on things being a bit "better" than the last one your built? How difficult is it to get decent Internet? Sometimes I think they do this on purpose to get people to buy "upgrades". 

it was so bad we had no issues getting a refund for the upgrade. The internet line was always long. I sailed in Oct from NY so location was not the issue. Too many issues to list about this ship. If this is what the future looks like, I hope they never take the away class ships out of service. Had a haven penthouse and would not book haven again on this type of ship. Next cruise is Escape in haven.

Edited April 7, 2023 by knitlady037

[uneamie]

13 minutes ago, knitlady037 said:

it was so bad we had no issues getting a refund for the upgrade. The internet line was always long. I sailed in Oct from NY so location was not the issue. Too many issues to list about this ship. If this is what the future looks like, I hope they never take the away class ships out of service. Had a haven penthouse and would not book haven again on this type of ship. Next cruise is Escape in haven.

Ugh....this is very disheartening because our last cruise was on the "Breakaway" and I hated it. Way too big, too many people. I felt like I was at "Woodstock" whenever we went anywhere near the pool deck. We waited sooo long to cruise again and Prima is it for us in May. I just hope we didn't make the wrong choice. We are not all that picky and Interent is not a top priority for us but I don't want to feel like I am competing for a place to sit for the entire cruise and I have a feeling that's exactly what is going to happen. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by uneamie

[mking8288]

@disneylover89 iOS and iMessage functions and currently known "open-secret" loopholes onboard NCL ships has more to do with TCP and UDP (data traffic) port control/flow issues (firewalls & ports) - regardless of the data traffic management further upstream, whether it's EMC or Starlink or another ISP/vendor doing the relays.  

 

WhatsApp working just fine this week with friends on the Sun's TA, currently somewhere in the Azores but having issues with iMessaging loophole ... and, 99% positive that Starlink isn't deployed or being beta pilot tested.  

 

Bottomline, NCL's IT Dept just need to get their acts together and move forward, at a faster pace instead taking 2 steps forward and go back 3 steps.  Issues with Starlink itself, among other challenges, is that they need to launch more units up to the low orbits and enabled them.  

 

If NCL "choose" to block the exploited iMessage features onboard - as is now, they can do that anytime - regardless of other elements; but, apparently, will cause unwanted problems somewhere else in their systems, including the poorly coded "Norwegian" App functions.  

 

We have yet to sail on the Prima but by most accounts, it's onboard WiFi network being among the worst, if not rockbottom - and, that raised the question of competencies, lack thereof.  Harry, current CEO-elect/designee, probably was napping or fell asleep when NCL announced Starlink being piloted late in 2022 ... on the Breakaway.  Previous news - 

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2022/11/norwegian-cruise-line-tests-spacex-starlink-on-norwegian-breakaway/

[cksv]

Wow they are really dragging their feet. Meanwhile Royal Caribbean is nearly finished installing Starlink on every single one of their ships. NCL must not have the manpower to install the dishes anytime soon, because there is absolutely no reason to do further testing than they have already done on the Breakaway... which began 6 months ago! The reality is Starlink is a low orbit system, and is going to be leaps and bounds better, especially when it comes to latency, than their existing service from Emerging Markets Communications. I've been on 11 cruises across 6 Norwegian ships the past 5 years, and I'm lucky if I can even get a webpage to load without having to refresh it multiple times, let alone stream any video content.

Edited April 7, 2023 by cksv

[Panhandle Couple]

We sailed on the Discover Princess last August, their newest ship, launched in May of 2022. 

The internet on it wasn't any better than on any NCL ship.  And Princess wraps their whole onboard experience around their Princess app and medallion.  See Princess board on the success (or lack of) for this approach.

 

The fact is, specifications for ships are made 5 years before the ship ever sails.  Then contracts bidded, negotiated, and signed.  Material ordered and ships building takes almost 3 years.

 

The electronics industry has a well know life cycle of 5 years.  Ships will always be behind.  Just a fact of life.

 

https://www.switchful.com/service/internet/starlink/reviews

 

Starlink is not a perfect solution either.  The wait time for orders is very long right now (up to a year).  They have little technical support and no installation support.  The std cost for equipment is now $600, yet if you want equipment designed for sub zero and over 100 degree temps, that is $2500.  Most of the US midwest falls into those temp ranges.

 

Starlink is still not available in SE US.  That ports like Miami, Canaveral, NOLA and Tampa. are on the edge of availability. Central America, Bahamas and parts of eastern Caribbean are not available now.   https://www.starlink.com/map

 

Starlink on Rv's is expressly for when the RV is stationary.  Using it while moving voids your warranty. 

 

Placing an electronically steered antenna on a ship that is subject to random pitching and rolling while trying to track a moving satellite is not an easy proposition. And it has to be a marinized version.

 

Starlink charges for using large amounts of high speed data.  A large ship can add 4,000 users at once.  A home station might add 4.  Big difference.  Upcharges for extra data are probably hard to determine right now for large ships.  How much and when?

 

 

 

 

[hallux]

9 hours ago, Panhandle Couple said:

Starlink charges for using large amounts of high speed data.  A large ship can add 4,000 users at once.  A home station might add 4.  Big difference.  Upcharges for extra data are probably hard to determine right now for large ships.  How much and when?

You're naïve if you think the plan used for a cruise ship follows the same pricing structure as a consumer product. 

9 hours ago, Panhandle Couple said:

Placing an electronically steered antenna on a ship that is subject to random pitching and rolling while trying to track a moving satellite is not an easy proposition. And it has to be a marinized version.

Same would apply to the equipment.  In fact, it seems there are no moving parts in the maritime equipment.  A quick Google search for "Starlink Maritime" would have revealed the page where you can see the equipment - https://www.starlink.com/maritime

 

9 hours ago, Panhandle Couple said:

yet if you want equipment designed for sub zero and over 100 degree temps, that is $2500.

Which appears to be the same one-time hardware cost for Starlink Maritime (see the page linked above), so that may be the same equipment.

 

9 hours ago, Panhandle Couple said:

Starlink is still not available in SE US.  That ports like Miami, Canaveral, NOLA and Tampa. are on the edge of availability. Central America, Bahamas and parts of eastern Caribbean are not available now.   https://www.starlink.com/map

and yet the Starlink Maritime page linked above indicates global coverage in the "vast majority of the Earth's oceans and seas".  Though no actual map is provided.  I don't see Miami, Tampa and Canaveral "on the edge of availability".  In reading the Maritime page, it seems the Bahamas don't have "available" on your map because they don't yet have an agreement for use there, but down in the Caribbean (USVI, BVI, PR, DR, Haiti) there seems to be coverage.  It's about legal agreements for use in territorial waters, not lack of satellite coverage, so it'll work fine outside the territorial waters of the places there is no agreement.

[knitlady037]

16 hours ago, uneamie said:

Ugh....this is very disheartening because our last cruise was on the "Breakaway" and I hated it. Way too big, too many people. I felt like I was at "Woodstock" whenever we went anywhere near the pool deck. We waited sooo long to cruise again and Prima is it for us in May. I just hope we didn't make the wrong choice. We are not all that picky and Interent is not a top priority for us but I don't want to feel like I am competing for a place to sit for the entire cruise and I have a feeling that's exactly what is going to happen. 

Go with an open mind. I was in haven and the ship was at full occupancy. If weather is bad, it will be crowded inside. I have sailed on Breakaway during an Easter break with 5,000 passengers on board. Talk about crowded!!!!! Luckily I was in haven again and didn't leave haven often due to crowds. Most of the ships are sailing at capacity but your cruise experience is what you make of it. I hope you have a fabulous time!!!! Even with all the issues I had on Prima, we had a great time. Just would not book this class ship again. I am old school NCL and love the jewel class ships the best. I prefer not flying to a cruise port so only cruise out of NY most of the time so choices are limited. 

[uneamie]

11 hours ago, knitlady037 said:

Go with an open mind. I was in haven and the ship was at full occupancy. If weather is bad, it will be crowded inside. I have sailed on Breakaway during an Easter break with 5,000 passengers on board. Talk about crowded!!!!! Luckily I was in haven again and didn't leave haven often due to crowds. Most of the ships are sailing at capacity but your cruise experience is what you make of it. I hope you have a fabulous time!!!! Even with all the issues I had on Prima, we had a great time. Just would not book this class ship again. I am old school NCL and love the jewel class ships the best. I prefer not flying to a cruise port so only cruise out of NY most of the time so choices are limited. 

Thanks for the  motivation support. I am good at adjusting to the situation, which I did when I was on the Breakaway, even though I'd never do that class ship again, I tried to make the most of it. It was a long cruise of 14 days of wall to wall people so I think the length of he cruise just made it worse. This cruise on the Prima is 7 days. We do have a balcony so if need be that is where we will find our peace during down times. I think going to Bermuda and being in port for 3 days is also a plus. Thanks again! 

[spenecer]

On 4/7/2023 at 11:34 AM, mking8288 said:

 Cisco servers that are currently in use onboard the Joy, Escape, Getaway & even the "older" NCL ships all have fairly robust hardware and network servers in place - I'm doubtful that NCL needs to upgrade their access points or hotspots already deployed, i.e.  Breakaway "live" beta testing 1.0 was done fairly quickly several months ago.  

 

I would argue that Epic does not have enough network hardware installed onboard to handle 'local' traffic on ship.

[Shel71]

I was on the Breakaway last week and paid for the streaming level for the internet and it was awful. I could not do hardly anything on my computer at all. If I logged in on my phone I could do more, but I could not stream anything. Last summer on the Spirit in Alaska I streamed some shows later in the evening just fine, so if this is what Starlink brings, I'm not a fan.