ABBA Songbook to be Retired in July

[Mariastreby]

2 hours ago, charmed1959 said:

Nailed one from the top landing today, and I’m terrible at cornhole.  Earned that mimosa.

 

I have coffee in the atrium every morning.  I don’t mind the classical background music but it’s not what I would choose.  A few days ago a couple came down to play cards with their own music.  I was just far enough away the music was clashing.  I much preferred their music, and was trying to decide if it would be too creepy for me to move really close to them.  In the end I moved farther away so I could only hear the classical, but if I were to voting.

 

 

Curious- how were they playing their music? With a phone or tablet?
 

I have about 12 different large playlists with all kinds of music genres, about 3,000 songs through Apple Music. I bet my versions of 60’s thru 80’s rock would beat Viking’s definition! Genesis, Foreigner, Rod Stewart, Kansas, Boston, Phil Collins, David Bowie, Moody Blues, Crosby-Stills-Nash & Young, CCR, and so many more. I just turned 68, so my favorites may reflect what decade I was born in. My college and high school songs, Woodstock! 😉
 

We’re taking a Panama Canal transit on the Mars over the holidays, and I have nearly 300 Christmas songs from classic carols by choirs to traditional (Andy Williams, Bing Crosby, Nat King Cole, etc), plus more modern songs by the Carpenters and various solo artists. I even have them organized by genre within holiday music! Wish Viking would play some of those during the our time onboard. 😊

Edited July 30, 2023 by Mariastreby

[KBs mum]

2 hours ago, charmed1959 said:

I have coffee in the atrium every morning.  I don’t mind the classical background music but it’s not what I would choose.  A few days ago a couple came down to play cards with their own music. 

 

 

Obnoxious behaviour, earphones are a thing. 

Why would anyone assume their choice of music would suit others who can hear it? 

 

[Jim Avery]

16 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

Obnoxious behaviour, earphones are a thing. 

Why would anyone assume their choice of music would suit others who can hear it? 

 

The same folks that sit in the same place FaceTiming their grandchildren at full volume...  No one else wants to hear your stuff.

[longterm]

On 5/3/2023 at 11:19 AM, Peregrina651 said:

 

Since Viking has to pay royalties to play these songs, it would not surprise me to learn that the groups that no longer exist are cheaper shows to mount.

Doesn't matter. Performing rights organizations (ASCAP & BMI are the 2 largest) collect for dead people all the time, because the ownership most often passes to descendants. You can bet that, every time Elvis tunes are played on streaming media or used in a film or on TV, someone's collecting royalties.

 

 

[longterm]

On 5/4/2023 at 11:52 AM, Peregrina651 said:

 

That speaks to my thought that the royalty cost of the music helps drive the choice of the music on board ships.

 

I also think that the choice of the music speaks to the demographic that Viking markets to -- old folks who can more easily swing 2+ week vacations.

 

 

 

LOL. You mean the RedSox anthem.

Generally, streaming costs, or performance royalties, are the same whether you wrote a hit song or an unknown piece of music. All of this is dictated by contracts between PROs, (performing rights organizations), artists, and publishing companies, all of whom get a slice of the proceeds. 

 

For this reason, if someone does a cover (a new rendition) of an existing hit (like a Beatles tune, for example), the current owners of the Apple Music catalog (now Paul McCartney and Sony/ATV) get paid, as well as the performer who recorded it, who gets paid on the streaming or CD sale. There's also a slice that goes to the owners of the *publishing* of that work--it might be the artist, or it might be a company like Sony, BMG, or Warner Media.

 

So, when you see an ABBA or Beatles show, the ship *should* report this to the PROs, who bill them accordingly. Sadly, artists these days often don't collect royalties when their tunes are played in shows, especially in clubs. I would assume that Viking does report on this, but it's murky water, and explains why the state of the music industry is in such shambles. 

 

It used to be that bands toured to promote their recordings, and not so much for the revenue; this has completely changed, and now big artists make less from recordings than they often do for touring. But I digress.

 

An interesting aside: Don Maclean recorded "American Pie," and never had another hit. He was wise to trademark the phrase "American Pie," and today he's a multi-millionaire, just on that one song. If you see a restaurant called "American Pie," you can bet Maclean's lawyer has contacted them and is collecting a use fee from them.  🙂

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by longterm

[OneSixtyToOne]

9 minutes ago, longterm said:

Generally, streaming costs, or performance royalties, are the same whether you wrote a hit song or an unknown piece of music. All of this is dictated by contracts between PROs, (performing rights organizations), artists, and publishing companies, all of whom get a slice of the proceeds. 

 

For this reason, if someone does a cover (a new rendition) of an existing hit (like a Beatles tune, for example), the current owners of the Apple Music catalog (now Paul McCartney and Sony/ATV) get paid, as well as the performer who recorded it, who gets paid on the streaming or CD sale. There's also a slice that goes to the owners of the *publishing* of that work--it might be the artist, or it might be a company like Sony, BMG, or Warner Media.

 

So, when you see an ABBA or Beatles show, the ship *should* report this to the PROs, who bill them accordingly. Sadly, artists these days often don't collect royalties when their tunes are played in shows, especially in clubs. I would assume that Viking does report on this, but it's murky water, and explains why the state of the music industry is in such shambles. 

 

It used to be that bands toured to promote their recordings, and not so much for the revenue; this has completely changed, and now big artists make less from recordings than they often do for touring. But I digress. 🙂

 

 

Most, if not all, commercial venues take out a blanket yearly licensing fee that covers whatever they play, otherwise it would be an accounting nightmare tracking everything. So whatever music Viking plays, the cost is the same.

 

More about ASCAP licensing (BMI is similar)

https://www.ascap.com/help/ascap-licensing/why-ascap-licenses-bars-restaurants-music-venues

Edited July 31, 2023 by OneSixtyToOne

[Mariastreby]

Thanks for all that information!

Edited July 31, 2023 by Mariastreby

[longterm]

11 minutes ago, OneSixtyToOne said:

Most, if not all, commercial venues take out a blanket yearly licensing fee that covers whatever they play, otherwise it would be an accounting nightmare tracking everything. So whatever music Viking plays, the cost is the same.

 

More about ASCAP licensing (BMI is similar)

https://www.ascap.com/help/ascap-licensing/why-ascap-licenses-bars-restaurants-music-venues

Well, that's true, but sadly, most clubs don't bother with paying license fees; I would assume that a company like Viking does, because they're so visible, but bars and nightclubs often don't bother with it. When you see a lounge band playing cover tunes in a nightclub, more often than not the club hasn't bothered to pay a license fee to have songs played in their facility, and enforcing this is a logistical nightmare for PROs.

 

Despite the general public's perception that musicians are making a killing, the reality is that songwriters these days aren't making the kind of money they used to make before this era of streaming. Even huge artists like James Taylor have lamented that the royalties they collect from streaming--which represents almost all music sales these days--is a pittance compared to the money that used to be made from physical media sales.

Edited July 31, 2023 by longterm

[Haqdeluxe]

Still have my fingers crossed for a Nine Inch Nails tribute show.

That's fingers crossed not breathe being held. I'm not crazy you know!  😜 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Haqdeluxe

[ReaderGirl57]

Delete

Edited July 31, 2023 by ReaderGirl57

[ReaderGirl57]

28 minutes ago, longterm said:

 

An interesting aside: Don Maclean recorded "American Pie," and never had another hit. He was wise to trademark the phrase "American Pie," and today he's a multi-millionaire, just on that one song. If you see a restaurant called "American Pie," you can bet Maclean's lawyer has contacted them and is collecting a use fee from them.  🙂

 

 

Starry Starry Night was a big hit for Don MacLean.

[longterm]

3 minutes ago, ReaderGirl57 said:

Starry Starry Night was a big hit for Don MacLean.

You're right! I totally forgot about it.

 

Have several friends in his band; he's a Nashville guy. 

[Haqdeluxe]

It's McLean and the title of that song is "Vincent". I do recall him having a couple of other songs that charted pretty high.

[duquephart]

There are some true "one hit wonders" ----- Little Eva comes to mind.

[longterm]

13 minutes ago, Haqdeluxe said:

It's McLean and the title of that song is "Vincent". I do recall him having a couple of other songs that charted pretty high.

True; he did a cover of "And I Love Her So" that did okay. He was really smart to trademark "American Pie" though; one of my favorite band stories was when they were invited to an after-show dinner at a local restaurant called American Pie; the owner opened the restaurant just to Don and the band, who were treated like royalty. 

 

After dinner, Don turned to his manager and said, "Get the address for this place; they'll be getting a call." 

 

🙂

 

 

[OneSixtyToOne]

58 minutes ago, longterm said:

Well, that's true, but sadly, most clubs don't bother with paying license fees; I would assume that a company like Viking does, because they're so visible, but bars and nightclubs often don't bother with it. When you see a lounge band playing cover tunes in a nightclub, more often than not the club hasn't bothered to pay a license fee to have songs played in their facility, and enforcing this is a logistical nightmare for PROs.

It IS enforced. We had a local pizza parlor with a piano in the corner and the owner would occasionally play to entertain the crowd. One night a rep from ASCAP was there and inquired if they had payed for licensing. They hadn’t and the 67 year-old owner refused to pay. Needless to say the piano was never used again. This story made the local papers. It’s from when the dispute was still going on, but in the end ASCAP won.
https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/1985/dec/12/john-pernicano-vs-ascap-over-cole-porter/

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by OneSixtyToOne

[duquephart]

Lots of artists did very well off of one song: John Hartford ("After that I could do anything I wanted"), Steve Goodman, Eddie Cochran, etc. Long list.

[longterm]

2 minutes ago, OneSixtyToOne said:

It IS enforced. We had a local pizza parlor with a piano in the corner and the owner would occasionally play to entertain the crowd. One night a rep from ASCAP was there and inquired if they had payed for licensing. They hadn’t and the 70 year old owner refused to pay. Needless to say the piano was never used again. This story made the local papers. 
https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/1985/dec/12/john-pernicano-vs-ascap-over-cole-porter/

 

Well, all I can tell you is that I started playing clubs when I was 14 and all the way through grad school, and was in the music business in Nashville until the early 2000s, and I know from experience that many clubs (probably most of the ones I played in over the years) never paid a dime.

 

It's the same story with union work dues; by rule, members of the AFM (the American Federation of Musicians) have to pay 2.5% work dues on every job they do. When we played concerts all over the country, the venues were supposed to file a contract through the union, and pay work dues for the performers. Invariably, they either refused or just neglected to; in some states like New Jersey, where Atlantic City had tons of artists performing, union reps would routinely show up backstage and collect work dues. But for other smaller venues all over the country, work dues didn't get paid. What this meant was that musicians like me wouldn't get the proper contributions to our pension funds, and upon retirement would have smaller pensions than we would otherwise have had.

 

It all depended on the location and the local reps; in some cities, ASCAP and BMI (of which I'm a member) were vigilant--in others, not so much.

 

 

[KBs mum]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:59 PM, BlairsvilleCruiseGirl said:

Is anyone else getting tired of all the "soothing" music in the lounges pre-dinner?  Every evening on our June Viking Sea sailing, in both the Explorers Lounge and the Living Room, there were pianists, cellists or violinists playing "soothing" music.  Now, don't get me wrong, they were all quite talented and the music was beautiful, but geez, after a while I was ready to fall asleep!  Couldn't Viking have one place on board where they have a little more upbeat music during the early evening?  It doesn't even have to be live music, just something with a little pep to it!  I think the ideal solution would be to have the Aquavit terrace bar play some good ol' rock and roll music pre-dinner.  We can go have a drink, chair dance to the music - you know, an upbeat atmosphere where we're not afraid to talk or laugh because we don't want to wake anyone up!

And yes, for all you fans of the soothing music, there would still be plenty of it in the Explorers and Living Room!

The aquavit terrace is part of the cafe, it does usually get lively when the cafe closes 

[Twitchly]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:36 AM, charmed1959 said:

A few days ago a couple came down to play cards with their own music.  I was just far enough away the music was clashing.

This flavor of rudeness DRIVES ME GONZOID. It’s like the audio version of someone farting or blowing smoke in your face, except it goes on and on and on. It makes me want to get a yappy dog and encourage it to bark incessantly at them. I would hate listening to that, too, but at least it would provide some grim satisfaction.

 

[Haqdeluxe]

1 hour ago, Twitchly said:

This flavor of rudeness DRIVES ME GONZOID. It’s like the audio version of someone farting or blowing smoke in your face, except it goes on and on and on. It makes me want to get a yappy dog and encourage it to bark incessantly at them. I would hate listening to that, too, but at least it would provide some grim satisfaction.

 

Perhaps sitting several people from a group on both sides of them and then carry on a spirited conversation across the gap? Wouldn't this only be carrying the "When in Rome" to the next level? 😁

[KBs mum]

1 hour ago, Twitchly said:

This flavor of rudeness DRIVES ME GONZOID. 

 

An excellent phrase, I may borrow it, but what is 'gonzoid'? 

[Twitchly]

5 hours ago, KBs mum said:

An excellent phrase, I may borrow it, but what is 'gonzoid'? 

Feel free. “Gonzoid” is what happens when existing words are woefully inadequate so one makes up new ones. 

[dd57]

Gonzo means wild or crazy.  Gonzoid would be used when gonzo is woefully inadequate.

[Haqdeluxe]

11 hours ago, Twitchly said:

Feel free. “Gonzoid” is what happens when existing words are woefully inadequate so one makes up new ones. 

You mean like as opposed to using existing words in a new way not typically associated with the words defined use? That's bitchen! I mean like far out man! 😀