Two blind ladies

[Jazzytelly]

Like others I think there is more to this than meets the eye. Unfortunately unless P & O come out and explain, which I doubt, we will never know as the ladies won’t say otherwise they would have in the first place. 

[terrierjohn]

55 minutes ago, daiB said:

Which for cruising are next to usless. We used them for our first 4/5 cruises but by then I knew more than them. Changed to a cruise specialist.

That reminded me of our early experience with a high street TA, only used them once and over the 2 weeks it took for us to decide on a booking we eventually knew far more about cruising than they did, and probably ever would.. We did then use a small independent TA who had a special cruise advisor for a couple of years, until we eventually found the online cruise specialist that many of us now use.

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, david63 said:

But it does not mean that they dealt with a cruise specialist

Indeed - my post was actually meant to imply that they definitely didn't book with a cruise specialist.

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, daiB said:

Which for cruising are next to usless. We used them for our first 4/5 cruises but by then I knew more than them. Changed to a cruise specialist.

I went to them in 2018 Dai, purely because I was booking a cruise that was their own brand. They proudly told me that they could match the price on their own website but would have to levy a £30 booking fee. I promptly went home and booked it online...

[Snow Hill]

When it comes to discrimination law governed by the Equality Act and Maritime Law it would appear that disabled passengers can be refused boarding based on safety grounds, this from House of Commons Library.

 

 

[Selbourne]

I use a cruise specialist (the one that most regulars on here use) but when they have established that we need an accessible cabin they just advise P&O to email us the Accessibility Needs questionnaire. At the risk of repeating myself, however good the TA, Cruise Specialist or person at P&O is, the person who completes the questionnaire is always the customer, so P&O can only go on what they are told. 
 

As I said earlier, I sense that we are only getting part of the story here, but I have to say that P&O have always been absolutely brilliant with us regarding my wife’s disability and it’s one of the reasons that we use them. Right from the second we arrive (with assisted embarkation) until the second we leave (assisted disembarkation) they cater extremely well for our needs. Without exception, all the crew are extremely helpful and accommodating. Accessible cabins mean that we can cruise (we couldn’t without them). The only negative is that, unlike one or two other lines, P&O don’t have any tenders that can accommodate wheelchair users, so my wife has to stay on the ship in tender ports, but as we know that in advance we just try to avoid cruises with a lot of tender ports. 

[9265359]

20 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

it would appear that disabled passengers can be refused boarding based on safety grounds

 

Good luck justifying refusing boarding purely on the grounds a passenger is blind.

[molecrochip]

I don’t know the full details but understand everyone did everything the should. The people declared their conditions, it was checked with P&O, P&O considered and responded appropriately.

 

What appears to have become a nuanced point is the report says they were offered an orientation once on board. I believe it was more a case that they could travel as long as they could safely find their way around the ship together. Not an unusual scenario. It become obvious that they could not.

 

For their own safety, they were refused travel bearing in mind that if something happened there was a high chance of both of them getting injured.

For those who follow these boards regularly, just ask yourself how often P&O readily refund cruise cost including out of pocket expenses without fuss. It was rightly taken seriously and dealt with.

 

I do feel sorry for the disappointed ladies.

[tesni]

6 hours ago, Jazzytelly said:

Like others I think there is more to this than meets the eye. Unfortunately unless P & O come out and explain, which I doubt, we will never know as the ladies won’t say otherwise they would have in the first place. 

 

"meets the eye" 😂I agree with you and the other posters who have made similar comments.

[Snow Hill]

4 hours ago, 9265359 said:

Good luck justifying refusing boarding purely on the grounds a passenger is blind.

The reason wouldn’t be because they were blind, but as @molecrochip said they were possibly unable to find their way safely around the ship. 

[Bazrat]

After doing a search I could find no further information on the case of the two ladies, I feel sorry for them because reading the scant information they did everything by the book.

[babs135]

7 hours ago, daiB said:

Which for cruising are next to usless. We used them for our first 4/5 cruises but by then I knew more than them. Changed to a cruise specialist.

We visited our local branch of this firm for a quote for a transatlantic crossing on the QM2 plus 4 nights in New York. We gave her the date.  Ten minutes of furious typing (clock above the agent's head) I asked if there was a problem. No, she said. A couple of minutes later she announced that she couldn't find a ship called the Queen Mary 2 but there was one called Majesty !!!!!!   Needless to mention we walked out. We went home and booked online.

[terrierjohn]

Why are we still debating this, Moley gave a comprehensive report on what happened in this case in post 33. The 2 ladies were deemed not to be capable of safely making their way around the ship, as a consequence they were asked to disembark, but were fully compensated. All of which seemed to be within the travel terms and conditions for passengers with disabilities, if I proved unable to safely care for my wife, who is physically disabled, I would expect P&O would refuse to let us sail.

[Guest ldtr]

In the article  they say that they had been on board "for quite some time". That leads me to suspect that either some issues came up or they made some requests that made the crew think that they were not able to operate effectively by themselves on board. 

[sleepingcat]

I havent seen these press reports, however I am pleased to see various points around disability being discussed on this forum.  Despite being fully covered by the Disability Discrimination legislation, people with visual impairments are grotesquely discriminated against on many occasions by providers of holiday accommodation and entertainments.  Often this is is more through ignorance than through actively wanting to discriminate. Many people seem not to understand that most visually impaired people live independently and go out to work successfully through their lives, as well as, often,  bringing up a family. 

 

I am a community sighted guide for persons with visual impairments, and used to work with guests at the local hotel here in Teignmouth which was owned and run by a disability charity (it has since been sold, shame).  

 

Last year OH and I cruised with another British line, and on board were a couple who both had visual impairments.  They were more than able to navigate about the ship and look after themselves (after all they've been doing it at home and at work for their entire lives and they had been on several cruises before). On one occasion we went ashore with them to act as their sighted guides,  as a one off port call on foot was more problematic.  This allowed all of us to give feedback to the guest liaison director on the ship, who was quite ready to admit that they could change some things and do better.  

 

Hopefully P and O can make use of the poor experience described above  to improve their information and their processes.  

[JDB78]

Without knowing all of the details, I think some people are allowing personal feelings to get in the way of common sense. Obviously everyone's situation is different and I'm sure the staff didn't take the decision lightly. People are referring to people they know or the fact that some people who are registered blind can lead 'normal' lives. None of us were there and we don't know what happened. I'm sure plenty of people would have to been quick to criticise had a serious accident happened after staff had seen previous minor incidents and not took any action. Damned if you do and damned if you dont