Amtrak Seattle to Vancouver Day of Sailing

[dpelletier]

Hi everyone- I have booked the Majestic Princess for this Sept. 2-9 cruise from Vancouver to Whittier. I'm thinking of taking the Amtrak the morning of Sept. 2nd from Seattle which will put us at Pacific Central Station in Vancouver at 11:50am. My family would much rather take the train vs. the Princess Shuttle/Bus. Train or Bus - which way should I go? I'm traveling with two 80+ year olds and can't scramble fast enough to make the Friday night train. Thanks experienced travelers-how reliable is Amtrak?   

[blackfly]

We took the train from Seattle to Vancouver in 2016 for a cruise on Star Princess to Alaska on the day the cruise sailed.  Beautiful trip, saw lots of Eagles.  Walked from the train station to cruise port.  Friends of ours who lived in Seattle took the ride with us.  They took the train back to Seattle after we boarded the ship.  On their way back to Seattle the train in front of them hit a person who was on the tracks.  Their return was delayed for hours.  If this had happened on the way to Vancouver we would have missed the cruise.  But what are the chances of that happening.  We buy trip insurance.

[iamaqt2]

The train ride from Seattle is great.. beautiful scenery.   The major downside is how early you have to board and the swaying of the train did make my hips ache.  Once you arrive at Pacific Central Station in Vancouver there are taxis waiting right outside who can drive you to the port.  This is also where Greyhound and FlixBus drop off.  I would normally advise just walking across the street and catching the Sky Train to Canada Place, but the cost of the taxi for 3 of you will only be a few dollars more.
The major advantage of riding the train is that you don't have to get off when crossing the border.  If you ride the bus you are required to exit the bus, retrieve your baggage and stand in line to clear customs.  Then restow luggage and reboard bus.  
However in case there were an issue with the train, there are 3 other companies who do bus service to Vancouver.
Greyhound.com
Flixbus.com
Quickcoach.com

Quick Coach actually drops off just outside the cruise terminal. 

[Prost Seattle]

Anticipate a later arrival into Vancouver than what is posted, BNSF owns the tracks and freight trains always have the priority, and in the warmer months the bridge crossing the Fraser River is open a lot, and marine traffic always has priority.  Now, if you have a boarding time of 2-3 PM you’ll probably be okay, I just wouldn’t count on that 11:50 AM arrival.  

[memoak]

We take the train to Vancouver for cruises but always go in the day before. There is no guarantee there will not be a delay on route. We have had several occasions over the years where this has happened 

[nini]

I would arrive the day before boarding. The train can have all sorts of issues for a timely arrival. It is not worth it.

[SCX22]

I agree with coming into Vancouver a day early.  It will give your companions a chance to rest.  They will need it for the trek through the Canada Place during embarkation.  I'm a several decades away from 80 years old and thought that the walk through the Canada Place was quite a trek.

[Ferry_Watcher]

If you do decide on Amtrak, don't relay in booking your seats.  Our train was sold out in early May '23.

[DaveOKC]

Just to comment on earlier post - I do not think you can take the Skytrain to Canada Place.  That route runs from CP to the airport only.  There are other metro train routes that may access it, but luggage is not allowed on those.

 

[memoak]

2 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

If you do decide on Amtrak, don't relay in booking your seats.  Our train was sold out in early May '23.

Especially if you are going to book business class. Space is very limited 

[iamaqt2]

4 hours ago, DaveOKC said:

Just to comment on earlier post - I do not think you can take the Skytrain to Canada Place.  That route runs from CP to the airport only.  There are other metro train routes that may access it, but luggage is not allowed on those.

 

I've ridden the SkyTrain to Canada Place from Pacific Central Station MANY times.  The raised platform is just across the street from PCS. It's the Main Street/Science-World Station.  It arrives at Waterfront Station and you just ride the escalator up and cross the street.  Easy Peasy.

Edited June 23, 2023 by iamaqt2

[martincath]

1 hour ago, iamaqt2 said:

I've ridden the SkyTrain to Canada Place from Pacific Central Station MANY times.  The raised platform is just across the street from PCS. It's the Main Street/Science-World Station.  It arrives at Waterfront Station and you just ride the escalator up and cross the street.  Easy Peasy.

Easy yes, but every time you rode you broke the rules unless your bags were small enough to sit in your lap... The risks are very low (automated train = no driver or conductor to see you!) and the timing of Amtrak means no rush hour commuter traffic so it's very unlikely you'll be booted off unlike at say 8am when staff are actively patrolling, stopping people boarding with bikes for example - but unless you're a solo traveler it's also not much of a saving so why take any risk at all? A metered cab to the pier runs maybe $12, same as 4 SkyTrain adult tix, and even for a solo the savings would not buy you a single pint of beer in Vancouver!

 

Especially given OP specifically mentioned having a pair of octogenarians and there's no elevator at the Howe St exit from that platform, I'd definitely be taking a cab/rideshare rather than roaming the rabbit warren of Waterfront to save a buck or two.

 

Back to the crux of the matter for OP @dpelletier - the morning train is normally low risk as it sits in Seattle rather than coming up from Oregon like the evening train, so it generally leaves Seattle on time. The schedule was lengthened by almost half an hour years ago to account for the typical delays from freight prioritization and marine traffic bridge closures, so if you don't have to wait for freight or a bridge you'll actually arrive a bit early! Since personally I'm in the 'board as late as you can' camp, I wouldn't usually have an issue taking the train from Seattle Day Of, except for the fact that you're sailing on a Royal class ship!

 

Majestic, like all of it's sister ships, is somewhat impractical for Vancouver departures - they cannot fit under the bridge except during a variable window around low tide, with the exact tide level making for as short a safe passage period as 30mins! This means that whatever the schedule says, it cannot be trusted: Princess could check tide timetables up to two years in advance, the Canadian government prints them into books and everything, but they do not. Every single year the same thing happens - a series of emails goes out to booked pax, hopefully at least a month in advance but not always, giving you the actual time of departure for your date if it varies by more than an hour or two from the theoretical.

 

Until that email arrives you can't be sure when it will leave port - the good news is that if there's a significant change the time is always bumped later rather than earlier, often into the wee small hours of the next day, but the bad news is that if low tide is say ~3pm they may pull the departure a little earlier rather than sit in port paying for all the hookups for twelve hours extra! So your All Aboard time might end up shifting forward from the theoretical 2:30pm... and if your train is running late on a day like that, the risk of being too late to board increase!

 

TL;DR - on your Majestic cruise I would not take Amtrak on Day Of until you get confirmation of actual departure time change... if it's leaving later than the theoretical 4:30pm and tickets are still available, Amtrak away! If not, then I'd try for a Princess transfer coach if one is available - that way if something goes wrong Princess are on the hook for getting you to the ship, including paying PVSA violations if applicable!

 

Since it sounds like you are flying in to Seattle on Friday afternoon, I'd actually suggest looking at a rental car - by the time you fill the seats you may end up paying less in total than a bus transfer (cruiselines, and QuickShuttle with some bag fees, charge around $79pp - Greyhound/Flix you might pay half that if you get lucky) and while the train is only $34 for Adults if Saver tix are available, even less for Seniors, the limited departure times are frustrating - with a car though you can book it to drive up Friday, and as long as you still return it within the 24hrs if you are late off your plane no problem.

 

Border in a car isn't quite as nice as the train, but is easier than a bus - even if sent to Secondary, CBSA don't need you to unload the bags just hand them the keys and sit around waiting for them to search it! Plus total flexibility in where you stop, which border crossing etc. A cheap suburban hotel either side of the border, an early drive to the pier to drop your elders and bags off, and even if you find the cheapest deals are airport-to-airport only the driver then needs to head out to YVR to drop the car, and SkyTrain on the Canada Line is <$10 and quick, especially if all the big bags have already been dropped at the pier!

[iamaqt2]

Just now, martincath said:

Easy yes, but every time you rode you broke the rules unless your bags were small enough to sit in your lap... The risks are very low (automated train = no driver or conductor to see you!) and the timing of Amtrak means no rush hour commuter traffic so it's very unlikely you'll be booted off unlike at say 8am when staff are actively patrolling, stopping people boarding with bikes for example - but unless you're a solo traveler it's also not much of a saving so why take any risk at all? A metered cab to the pier runs maybe $12, same as 4 SkyTrain adult tix, and even for a solo the savings would not buy you a single pint of beer in Vancouver!

 

Especially given OP specifically mentioned having a pair of octogenarians and there's no elevator at the Howe St exit from that platform, I'd definitely be taking a cab/rideshare rather than roaming the rabbit warren of Waterfront to save a buck or two.

 

Back to the crux of the matter for OP @dpelletier - the morning train is normally low risk as it sits in Seattle rather than coming up from Oregon like the evening train, so it generally leaves Seattle on time. The schedule was lengthened by almost half an hour years ago to account for the typical delays from freight prioritization and marine traffic bridge closures, so if you don't have to wait for freight or a bridge you'll actually arrive a bit early! Since personally I'm in the 'board as late as you can' camp, I wouldn't usually have an issue taking the train from Seattle Day Of, except for the fact that you're sailing on a Royal class ship!

 

Majestic, like all of it's sister ships, is somewhat impractical for Vancouver departures - they cannot fit under the bridge except during a variable window around low tide, with the exact tide level making for as short a safe passage period as 30mins! This means that whatever the schedule says, it cannot be trusted: Princess could check tide timetables up to two years in advance, the Canadian government prints them into books and everything, but they do not. Every single year the same thing happens - a series of emails goes out to booked pax, hopefully at least a month in advance but not always, giving you the actual time of departure for your date if it varies by more than an hour or two from the theoretical.

 

Until that email arrives you can't be sure when it will leave port - the good news is that if there's a significant change the time is always bumped later rather than earlier, often into the wee small hours of the next day, but the bad news is that if low tide is say ~3pm they may pull the departure a little earlier rather than sit in port paying for all the hookups for twelve hours extra! So your All Aboard time might end up shifting forward from the theoretical 2:30pm... and if your train is running late on a day like that, the risk of being too late to board increase!

 

TL;DR - on your Majestic cruise I would not take Amtrak on Day Of until you get confirmation of actual departure time change... if it's leaving later than the theoretical 4:30pm and tickets are still available, Amtrak away! If not, then I'd try for a Princess transfer coach if one is available - that way if something goes wrong Princess are on the hook for getting you to the ship, including paying PVSA violations if applicable!

 

Since it sounds like you are flying in to Seattle on Friday afternoon, I'd actually suggest looking at a rental car - by the time you fill the seats you may end up paying less in total than a bus transfer (cruiselines, and QuickShuttle with some bag fees, charge around $79pp - Greyhound/Flix you might pay half that if you get lucky) and while the train is only $34 for Adults if Saver tix are available, even less for Seniors, the limited departure times are frustrating - with a car though you can book it to drive up Friday, and as long as you still return it within the 24hrs if you are late off your plane no problem.

 

Border in a car isn't quite as nice as the train, but is easier than a bus - even if sent to Secondary, CBSA don't need you to unload the bags just hand them the keys and sit around waiting for them to search it! Plus total flexibility in where you stop, which border crossing etc. A cheap suburban hotel either side of the border, an early drive to the pier to drop your elders and bags off, and even if you find the cheapest deals are airport-to-airport only the driver then needs to head out to YVR to drop the car, and SkyTrain on the Canada Line is <$10 and quick, especially if all the big bags have already been dropped at the pier!

 

I already recommended getting a taxi to the OP.  

I mentioned the Sky Train in case anyone else was looking for more info.

And Translink does not prohibit baggage.  Per their rules:
4. No baggage or objects permitted which may obstruct or interfere with others or cause damage to property.

It's a short 10 minute ride on the SkyTrain almost towards the end of its run and has never been crowded and my bag has never interfered with other passengers.  

[martincath]

9 minutes ago, iamaqt2 said:

4. No baggage or objects permitted which may obstruct or interfere with others or cause damage to property.

...

my bag has never interfered with other passengers.

Please re-read the rule you actually quoted, which is great as it saves me the trouble, but note my emphasis - your stuff merely needs to have the potential to obstruct etc., in the sole discretion of a Translink employee or transit cop... and there is literally nowhere on the Expo line trains that will fit a big bag without being in the aisle (trip hazard!), near the door (trip hazard!), etc. etc.

 

Think about sudden braking, an unsteady elderly person, a teen with their face in a phone boarding etc. etc. falling over your baggage and ask yourself if your bag is truly somewhere that it cannot possibly cause a problem? Unless your bag is small enough to fit with you in your own seat area, it's a potential obstruction regardless of your opinion on the matter - and there's no appeal process even if you think they're being utterly unreasonable, it's either obey the instruction to leave or else the transit cops get involved, and a hefty fine might be levied on you too (IIRC it was up to about $190 after most recent inflationary increase).

 

I've posted on this a few times in the past, listing various instances where I've seen these rules enforced. You are of course welcome to disagree with me, as a local my 'job' is just to pass along knowledge to visitors - I've given the relevant warning, it's up to the readers to decide what to do with the info, but this is a situation where the best possible case is saving ~$10 (Canadian!!!) for solo travelers and a typical cruising couple couldn't even treat themselves to a a decent coffee each compared to taking a cabuber from the station. Any risk whatsoever is too big a risk IMO!!!

 

This isn't just an attempt to keep tourists off the Expo line so I have less competition to use it, I live just a block away from Main St station but I walk directly to Olympic Village (over a mile) if I'm heading to YVR with a bag I plan to check as that's on the Canada Line - I only take Expo and transfer if I'm going strictly carry-on, even at a quiet time of day, despite the zero extra cost and the several minutes/mile of walking saved with the transfer, because it removes even the tiny chance of ruining the start of my trip by having an altercation with some uniformed jobsworth!!!

[GTJ]

On 6/23/2023 at 8:54 PM, martincath said:

Think about sudden braking, an unsteady elderly person, a teen with their face in a phone boarding etc. etc. falling over your baggage and ask yourself if your bag is truly somewhere that it cannot possibly cause a problem? Unless your bag is small enough to fit with you in your own seat area, it's a potential obstruction regardless of your opinion on the matter - and there's no appeal process even if you think they're being utterly unreasonable, it's either obey the instruction to leave or else the transit cops get involved, and a hefty fine might be levied on you too (IIRC it was up to about $190 after most recent inflationary increase).

As I was reading this explanation, I realized that this is one of the things that distinguish cities with a true transit-using history and reliance on public transportation. Here in New York City, strictly-enforced rules like these are not necessary. The rule adopted here is:

No person may carry on or bring to any facility or conveyance any wheeled cart greater than thirty inches in either length or width, including but not limited to shopping or grocery store carts or baskets, but excluding any stroller which is, at the time it is on or in the facility or conveyance, being utilized for children; or any item that:
(1) is so long as to extend outside the window or door of a subway car, bus or other conveyance;
(2) constitutes a hazard to the operation of the Authority, interferes with passenger traffic, or impedes service; or
(3) constitutes a danger or hazard to other persons.
Nothing contained in this section shall apply to the use of wheelchairs, crutches, canes or other physical assistance devices.

This rule is more sensible than the rule in Vancouver. With the exception of the shopping cart provision (which seemingly was added because of some specific incident), the rule is based on common sense. People and their possessions are in the aisle all the time. The aisles are plenty wide. So long as passage is not completely blocked, there's nothing wrong with having one's baggage in the aisle. It is the normal thing to do in a city where everyone uses the public transportation system all the time. The goal is to get people onto public transportation, not to chase them off. No police officer will eject or summons a person for having their baggage in the aisle. With stories like this, Vancouver comes across poorly.

[martincath]

9 minutes ago, GTJ said:

... This rule is more sensible than the rule in Vancouver. ...

Take away the specific notes, and it's only different in one clause - it lacks MAY, while adding a whole heckuvalot of utterly pointless fluff because it's got far too many specifics and seems to require actual evidence of interference/obstruction/danger.

 

Your 'more sensible' is in my opinion 'stupidly specific wording that also prevents preemptive action' - our rule for example allows, and I have seen it most often be used for such, Community shuttle drivers to use discretion to refuse tourists with big suitcases but at the same stop allow a little old lady to move her groceries home in a shopping trolley (which take up as much space as those suitcases would, so they are just as bad from the perspective of the rule!) - sometimes it's even just to keep some space free for the next stop, because these routes are the lifeblood of the downtown core elderly and poor demographic, with regular drivers who get to know the regular passengers - on 'Seniors/Veterans Days' at local markets they know that they'll see X, Y, and Z people boarding between the same stops about the same times every week.

 

But rather than get stupidly specific by having different rules for e.g. the small shuttle buses, the huge boxy seabus, the Canada Line trains vs. the others, regular buses, double-decker buses, bendy buses and whatever else might be added in future, we applied a single, very broad rule allowing total discretion to the 'boots on the ground' staff to trigger it - or not.

 

In other words our transit system, funded by our tax dollars, is in a much better position to be quietly nudged in favour of the people actually living and working here in preference to tourists and discretionary traveling locals, all of whom are in a better place to afford cabs etc. than the transit-use-by-necessity local folks. That is 99.9% A Good Thing IMO - everywhere I travel that has sensible provisions to prioritise people actually living locally over tourists I applaud them (e.g. Egyptian pricing on all tourist sites back in the day charged tourists 10 to 20x more than locals - even the high price was a pittance to me, as a barely graduated student with debts I still had way more liquid cash than the vast majority of the locals), and the tighter the rules on matters which benefit tourists but screw over local the better (*cough*AirBnB anywhere with housing problems*cough*).

 

That 'may' is the primary tool that enables this to happen - drivers and attendants can choose to let things slide when it is quiet with lots of space on the vehicle, they can choose to show some compassion to folks who obviously need the service despite having inappropriately large items (homeless 'binners' with giant bags full of empties), folks working jobs that need heavy tools but don't pay much etc. but by having the rule be so generic that it can ALWAYS be triggered for anything bigger than a 'lap bag' without requiring ANY proof it means when they do choose to use it there is no room for quibbling ("My cart is 29 inches long, I measured it, prove I'm wrong or let me on!"), wasting time taking photos of or measuring things to prove they are in breach, making all passengers late. They can just say 'nope' to Mr Big Bag any time they want here and everything from the bylaws to the union to management is going to support them because it keeps the overwhelming majority of people moving most efficiently.

 

The downside of this is of course that when you give all staff that much discretion, some will get trigger-happy - pick any group of humans of a couple dozen or more and guaranteed at least will be a serious pedant. I usually fill that role, except I drop to secondary back-up pedant when you're in the same thread 😉

 

So, like I say all the time, enforcement is very poor on SkyTrain - outside rush hour when attendants are on platforms, it's easy to not see a single uniformed person on a short ride like this one and even if you do see them they may well let it slide if it's quiet... but what our visitors and less-researchy locals don't realise when they recommend people just use transit willy-nilly because they do it 'all the time' is that they were in breach of a rule, it just wasn't enforced - I do like to let people know that there are less-than-obvious rules for exactly the reason that lots of other cities, like New York, have put less thought into their transit legislation than we have - one of the few good things about 'new cities' is that they can learn from the mistakes of the old ones. Ask anyone in programming what they think about legacy code...

 

I don't warn people that driving over the speed limit might trigger a ticket because that's obvious to anyone, but I do make a point in warning about transit with big bags precisely because we are rather unusual in how sensibly we set up our transit rules - someone who knowingly takes the small risk? No skin off my nose - but as someone who values accuracy above all else, I would feel bad if I failed to warn folks! In similar fashion, on the rare occasion I find someone who seems like they would want to partake in the local outdoor drinking culture on Beer Island I warn them of the 'no public drinking law' as those aren't universal, but further warn that if they see cops or rangers NEVER to throw away their booze bottles... as littering carries a significantly higher fine than public drinking!!!

 

It's just like how I greatly appreciated the advice of locals in parts of the US where ticketing tourists is a major revenue stream for Small Town X to warn me about the ridiculous speed sign combinations that are very challenging to obey all of in Alachua County FL, or that in some parts of West Virginia a cop can just eyeball your car and say you were speeding and protesting tickets must be done in-person in town on the one day a week when a judge is available - so you better be at least 5 UNDER the limit if you take the shortcut on the 19 through Summersville instead of the I79 via Charleston! These obscure regional tidbits are like gold dust if you're visiting from 'normal' places where cruising along at 5-10 over the speed limit on the highway is expected, or where you can schlep luggage around on transit...

 

Incidentally, I'm genuinely surprised that you are attempting to defend New York's position on permitting baggage - every New Yorker I've ever spent time with has been an urban, non-car-owning, take-the-subway-everywhere-possible type and they all hate the <insert swear of choice> who take suitcases on the subway; from close enough friends that I helped clear a dead spouses stuff from their apartment, to casual friends of friends who are tour-guides, cabbies, chefs; the kind of folks who actually make a good chunk of their living from tourists - ALL of their statements on such matters boil down to "Take a cab you cheap tourist SOB!" rather than schlepping a suitcase on the subway! Even the really NICE people, the ones who have been fighting for decades to overturn the terrible, and absolutely earned, reputation of New Yorkers as being - shall we diplomatically say, abrasive? - share this view, like folks I know who were part of Big Apple Greeters in the earliest days.

 

I truly think you'll find yourself in a very small minority of folks who not support banning Big Things On Transit in NYC sir or madam... and even the assorted guides to subway etiquette seem to agree that baggage on the subway means you are an inconsiderate <insert swear here>. Google "Johnny T’s best subway tips" for a hilariously Noo Yawk muppet-hosted video!

 

If you feel that a public transit system truly needs to double as transportation for good and chattels, then look to Portland - while almost Vancouveresque rules apply generally there is an exemption for Really Big Stuff during off-peak hours on the 'low floor' parts of streetcars and MAX. Every now and again a thread pops up on local Reddit about someone moving house by streetcar, I've even seen queen size mattresses and bedframes being schlepped around!

 

Personally I'm all for discretion being applied to bags on transit off-peak, provided no baggage stops someone getting at a door or seat, and most Translink staff share a similar view in my experience - but if I didn't say anything about this there would probably be at least one frenzied post every decade or so saying "WARNING! VANCOUVER TRANSIT SCAM! THEY PUT A SUBWAY NEAR AMTRAK BUT WOULD NOT LET ME TAKE MY TWELVE BAGS TO THE PIER! THEY STOLE MY $3! WHO CAN I SUE TO GET IT BACK?" 😉

[Digisailor]

We had a really *bad* experience around on June 13, 2023  with a Princess "bus" transfer from Seattle to Vancouver.

 

First of all... it was hard to find them in Seattle.  We had stayed overnight at a hotel to meet the transfer in the morning.  We took the Orange elevators as instructed... got there at the time they were supposed to be open (8AM)... At one end of the orange elevators there was a big sign saying "Cruise Buses" and "Charter Buses"... and no signage at all at the other end... (although that was the way it turned out we were *supposed* to go).  So we walked quite a ways to where they load the busses and the guys down there said we were supposed to be at the cruise bus *lounge* to sign in... which was the other direction.  So we went back... passed the elevators (with all the luggage still)... and went through the doors at the other end into a rather stark but adequate "lounge"... and there was a small sign on the desk that indicated it was Princess... which you really couldn't see from the elevators.  We asked them about the signage, and they said something like "we tried to put some up, but the airport took it down".  So we "signed in", and sat down... and waited to be called for the bus.  (So if you're already signed up for this... go the direction *away* from the "Cruise Buses" sign and you'll be at the right place... unless they change something...)

Sometime after 10AM, they told us "the bus was a no show"... "we're trying to get some vans".  Around 10:30 3 vans showed up.   So apparently Princess found "another vendor" on short notice.  About 15 of us got into the first van... and it wasn't too bad... but after about 15-20  minutes going up I5, the bus pulled off to an office... apparently for the bus company, and they said they had to change drivers.  Maybe the first one didn't have a passport... not sure of the reason... So back on the freeway, another 15-20 minutes... pulls off again... "we need to get gas"... so we had a "rest stop"... which wasn't too bad either.  Then back on I5 headed north.    We get to the border, and the driver doesn't go through the commercial bus area... but lines up with the cars instead.  Told the customs agent "the bus broke"... and fortunately the agent was understanding... just glanced at everyone's passport and waved us through.  

Another 10 minutes or so... the driver gets off the highway (99 in Vancouver I think...) and first heads west... then south... on surface city streets... obviously lost.  Apparently his GPS or whatever didn't have Canadian cel service...  Passengers getting concerned and the driver was apparently clueless whaat to do next.  So... a passenger got WAZE going on a tablet *with* Canadian cel service, and we used that to get to the port.  

Finally got there around 3:30.   I don't know what happened to the other 2 vans... presumably they got there... probably before us.  

We had done this same transfer over 10 years ago, and it was a lot simpler... Fortunately we flew home from Vancouver so the transfer was much better going back.

If I were doing it again, I would find another way. 

We ran into some people who used the train and they seemed pleased with it... so I was curious to read this thread, but I thought I would reply to it in case any of this helps someone else.

 

[GTJ]

16 hours ago, martincath said:

Take away the specific notes, and it's only different in one clause - it lacks MAY, while adding a whole heckuvalot of utterly pointless fluff because it's got far too many specifics and seems to require actual evidence of interference/obstruction/danger.

The difference, as I see it, is that, for the most part, in practice, some cities have a fanaticism for mindless adherence to rules, while New York generally relies on what is sensible.

[GTJ]

15 hours ago, Digisailor said:

We had a really *bad* experience around on June 13, 2023  with a Princess "bus" transfer from Seattle to Vancouver.

I generally take the view that any company can have something go wrong. What separates the better companies is what they do when something wrong happens. Although Princess Cruises did not operate the bus service, Princess Cruises was the broker, one of its duties being the fitness of the service. While there was no direct injury--everyone was delivered to the vessel prior its sailing--the carrier did cause some anxiety and both the carrier and the broker should have have provided at least some token of redress as a goodwill gesture (perhaps some complimentary beverage or food item for which there is ordinarily an extra charge). Done right, these gestures can go a long way in negating an unpleasant experience.

 

15 hours ago, Digisailor said:

We ran into some people who used the train and they seemed pleased with it.

Many of the people riding the train along this route--the "Cascades" corridor--on December 18, 2017, were not pleased when the train traveled too fast and derailed, resulting in three passengers killed and 65 other passengers injured. As noted above, no matter what means of transportation is used, it is possible that something can go wrong. http://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/engineer-in-fatal-cascades-derailment-reaches-settlement-with-amtrak

[martincath]

4 hours ago, GTJ said:

Many of the people riding the train along this route--the "Cascades" corridor--on December 18, 2017, were not pleased when the train traveled too fast and derailed, resulting in three passengers killed and 65 other passengers injured. As noted above, no matter what means of transportation is used, it is possible that something can go wrong. http://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/engineer-in-fatal-cascades-derailment-reaches-settlement-with-amtrak

 

Even if this gets me a ban for insulting someone personally, your incredibly insensitive commentary on this tragic Amtrak incident is the end of the line for me.

 

Read what you wrote and give just a shred of thought to how it might impact anyone involved. That first sentence is from beginning to end is an absolutely inhuman statement to make. Many people riding were not pleased - of course they bl00dy weren't, who the heck would be pleased to die or be injured on a train ride? So who WAS pleased then, what proportion of the whole does many not include?

 

Seriously, for a while now I've suspected 'you' were actually an experimental chatbot - but none of the articles I've read produced by them would have spat out such a fundamental failure of empathy so I'm forced to conclude that you are actually a real person - just a really, really unpleasant one!

 

You didn't even just post a crappy choice of article - there are many and varied, far more sympathetically written then this 'he said they said' discussion of law suits and firings.

 

You didn't even just frame awkwardly, as I know many autistic friends and family members might have.

 

You cracked a joke... Many people pleased indeed - you should be utterly ashamed of yourself!

 

Honestly, bottom of the barrel doesn't even come close - I'd simply have reported the post but frankly the more people who read it and realise what a thoroughly unpleasant excuse for a person you are, the more likely that you'll be banned by enough posters to fade to irrelevance, and good riddance when you do.

 

Congrats - you're the only person who's a big enough assh*le to make my ban list!!!!

 

[Ferry_Watcher]

Yes, a decency line was crossed and our friend @martincath was correct to call it out.

People died, people were seriously injured, and for those of us who live in the Pacific Northwest, we can still recall it.  Using that tragedy  to make an flippant and unrelated transportation point was unnecessary.

 

[GTJ]

15 hours ago, martincath said:

Even if this gets me a ban for insulting someone personally, your incredibly insensitive commentary on this tragic Amtrak incident is the end of the line for me.

Unfortunately, you did not understand the point being made, and got lost on the details and your own emotion. The point being made was that, no mater what means of travel one uses, something bad can happen.

 

Those bad incidents can include very bad incidents, including the deaths of individuals. These incidents include the aforementioned Amtrak train on the Cascades corridor, the murder of Leon Klinghoffer aboard the cruise vessel Achille Lauro, and the beheading of a passenger aboard a Greyhound Canada motorcoach, among other tragedies. Each has had profound impacts in various ways, leading to changes in the manner by which each type of transportation is managed. The example of the Cascades route was chosen as support because it is directly related to the subject matter here: the Cascades corridor goes from Eugene, Oregon, to Vancouver, British Columbia, and includes the train service that passengers going to and from cruise vessels in Vancouver would utilize. In each case, the carrier involved engaged people with expertise in crisis management. All of these incidents support my proposition that bad things can happen. I dislike making judgment as to future patronage of a company based on a single incident--even incidents that are tragic--and instead I prefer to separate the good companies based on ther ability to respond properly when things do go wrong.

 

As to the choice of media, Trains magazine is both politically neutral and factual in its reporting, and hardly a better news source exists for accurate reporting of railroad incidents. It is not a matter of sympathy, but rather the reliability of the report.

 

The prior person posting said, "some people who used the train . . . seemed pleased with it." I responded by directly asserting the contrary, that some people have not been pleased. This is a proper form of argument. Someone who makes an argument should state the proposition that is being argued, following it with supporting statements. That fact that an argument might be emotional to some people does not obviate the need to state the proposition and provide its support. In this case, whether it was those who were, themselves, tragically injured, those affected by those injured, or simply those people who lost transportation service in the aftermath, many people were not pleased. I see not a "joke" here but only an argument; I feel sorry for those people who see the tragedy as a joke.

 

Yes, some people might react emotionally to tragedy. Where I presently reside there remains much emotion surrounding the use of multiple passenger aircraft as missiles to attack the World Trade Center, the result being 3,000 people murdered. Should the fact that people died render the subject unspeakable? Of course not! We use that tragedy routinely to support or oppose all sorts of policies and arguments. Doing so does not diminish the lives of those who were lost. To the contrary, not engaging in argument would diminish their lives.

Edited June 26, 2023 by GTJ

[martincath]

On 6/24/2023 at 11:05 PM, Digisailor said:

We had a really *bad* experience around on June 13, 2023  with a Princess "bus" transfer from Seattle to Vancouver. <snip>

Sorry, didn't even acknowledge your contribution yesterday in my fury... thanks for the tale, which should indeed remind everyone that no method is entirely foolproof! The fundamental benefit to a cruise transfer is that it keeps your line 'on the hook' if they fail to get you to the ship. For Vancouver departures that's potentially a really big deal if you're flying in same day - while with an RT you could fly on to the first stop and join the ship legally (as you would then sail from e.g. Ketchikan to Vancovuer, legal by both countries laws) if it's a one-way then you are hooped.

 

Princess specifically have been verified to have flown folks onward - at their expense - and then eaten the PVSA violation fine (currently close to US$800) when they have failed to get pax to the Vancouver pier in time. But if you were doing it independently they would almost certainly not even let you board if you paid to get yourself up to Alaska, as PVSA violations are on the ship and Master, not you the passenger! They could pass along the fine, but it keeps things much tidier with CBP just to not have violations occur...

 

The train is just so much nicer than any other transit method that if you are already starting in Seattle, rather than flying into SEA to catch a transfer, it becomes worth serious consideration not just because it's half the price of a cruise transfer, but it has a lot more padding in the event of problems - even delayed by 50%, extraordinarily unlikely on the morning train with no dependencies to other Amtrak services, you could easily be at the pier by 2:30pm.

 

Glad you made it, and thanks again for the trip report - 'boots on the ground' viewpoint is always nice to have, even in these outlying cases. As is apparent from my pedantry about the very low risk use of SkyTrain for the last leg of the train journey, I'm a worst case scenario planner myself - trading off an independent 'better chance of success when things start going wrong' against 'more likely to fail, but even if it does there's a built-in backup' cruise transfer is tricky, the more data the better!

 

Oh, and for folks unfamiliar with Vancouver, we don;t have any real highways in the city - it's all surface streets with highway numbering on the direct route connecting to each neighbouring municipality, so don't panic just because the bus is 'off the highway'... we even have a bit of 99 where you have to hang a 90 degree left and head west a few blocks, as the route after the airport starts on Oak St but then moves across the Granville St - but given this particular driver was going South at some point, yeah, that's definitely a bad driving issue rather than our unusual urban planning!

[GTJ]

50 minutes ago, martincath said:

[N]o method is entirely foolproof!

Correct. Any company can have something go wrong.

[Digisailor]

11 hours ago, martincath said:

 

Oh, and for folks unfamiliar with Vancouver, we don;t have any real highways in the city - it's all surface streets with highway numbering on the direct route connecting to each neighbouring municipality, so don't panic just because the bus is 'off the highway'... we even have a bit of 99 where you have to hang a 90 degree left and head west a few blocks, as the route after the airport starts on Oak St but then moves across the Granville St - but given this particular driver was going South at some point, yeah, that's definitely a bad driving issue rather than our unusual urban planning!

Thanks for all the additional info!

I probably didn't say that quite right...when the guy turned west and south... he wasn't in Vancouver yet... Looking back at the map today, it was probably still in Surrey... so it was still at least "sort of" a freeway... but the driver was definitely lost, out of his depth, and starting to panic a bit...  and I think we all were annoyed but feeling a bit sorry for the guy too... the whole thing was difficult... but also  had its amusing aspects.

If I ever do this (Alaska out of Vancouver) again, I'll probably ask on this board what people recommend based on whatever has been happening recently... because so much has changed, and continues to change.  To reach either Vancouver or Seattle airport from where we live involves at least two flights already,  (And there's a large probability these days that something goes wrong with at least one of two connecting flights)...  so I build my "extra day" in getting to the transfer in Seattle which seemed prudent.  If I had it to do over again, I would probably fly to Vancouver... if I could find flights that work.  (We flew home from Vancouver via SFO and it was really easy and pleasant).   But flights into regional airports around Southern Oregon are few and far between, so we have to choose among slim pickings! 

As regards "things going wrong"... I think we are seeing a lot more of this now, probably partially because there are fewer people working, so finding a rapid resolution when something *does* go wrong, is more difficult than it might have been, say, 5 years back... the system has a lot less "padding" to fall back on than it did previously.   I'm guessing it already cost Princess a pretty penny to have to hire vans to replace the "missing" bus. 

I also wanted people to be aware of the situation at the Seattle Airport with the "Cruise Bus Terminal" not being labeled... when you went down the "orange" elevators.  If you go towards the sign that reads "Cruise Busses Hopefully it may save someone some time and grief to know that.   

To recap... the "cruise bus lobby" where you have to go (from the orange elevators, which Princess mentions in their instructions)  to sign in for the bus, is *not* through this door.

 

It is through the door below  (It's even less obvious when the motion sensor hasn't opened

the door).   I think the door you want is to the *south*. 


I

 

 

It seems like that, at least, would be easy to fix with some signs.    We weren't the only ones confused by this. 

We never went to the "Cruise Busses" area - the vans just came to the curb outside. 

Hopefully this will help somebody.