Passport question

[rolloman]

I recently took my daughter on a Royal cruise with the same itinerary. My daughter had 4 months remaining on her passport. Upon filling out the required online documentation, Royal gave a little pop-up note stating they "suggest" the passport have 6 months or more. I disregarded the suggestion and went on the cruise with zero problems. 

[RedIguana]

1 hour ago, BND said:

A US citizen is a US citizen.  Doesn't matter if by birth or naturalization for immigration/passport.

You are not going on a closed loop cruise using a divers license and a Russian birth certificate, even if a naturalized US citizen. In this case is does matter.

[RedIguana]

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

Royal's policy states, as evidenced by their policy, which has been copied and pasted on this board many times, that passports must have a 6-month validity period.

I have seen this posted from their FAQ's. Not their "policy". The actual "policy" is that you have to meet the documentation requirements for whatever actual cruise you on going on. FAQ's are general guidelines that may or may not be correct. The governing document is your cruise contract, not the FAQ's.

[Ret MP]

50 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

I have seen this posted from their FAQ's. Not their "policy". The actual "policy" is that you have to meet the documentation requirements for whatever actual cruise you on going on. FAQ's are general guidelines that may or may not be correct. The governing document is your cruise contract, not the FAQ's.

 

From the "GUEST CONDUCT POLICY":

 

"FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS POLICY, ANY OTHER OF OUR POLICIES, OR ANY INSTRUCTION COMMUNICATED BY US (INCLUDING OUR CREW) AT ANY TIME IN ANY FORM, WRITTEN OR ORAL, WILL BE CONSIDERED A BREACH OF THIS POLICY AND MAY RESULT IN ONE OR MORE ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS"

 

Again, and again, and again.  I'm not saying they enforce the policy.  But, it's there if they want it.

 

AND, the FAQ is a reflection/reader's digest/clarifications/expansions of their policies.  

 

And from the Contract:  "b. Passengers are solely responsible to maintain in their possession all passports, visas and other travel documents required for embarkation, travel and disembarkation at all ports of call. Passengers assume full responsibility to determine through their travel agent or the appropriate government authority the necessary documents. Passenger agrees to provide to Carrier (at Carrier’s reasonable request) any travel documents. Carrier shall return such travel documents to Passenger by no later than the end of the Cruise".

 

And, if you read the contract you'd see that they discuss policies throughout the Contract.  A contract is a contract, policies are policies and not part of the contract.  

 

For example:  9. PASSENGER’S OBLIGATION TO COMPLY WITH AGREEMENT, APPLICABLE LAWS, AND RULES OF CARRIER; QUARANTINE; INDEMNIFICATION:
a. Compliance Obligation Generally. Passenger shall at all times comply with the provisions of this Agreement, all applicable laws, and rules, policies and regulations of the Carrier, the Vessel and the Transport (as the same may be changed from time to time with or without notice),

 

Go ahead and show up with a passport without 6 months remaining on it.  You'll probably NOT have a problem.  But, there is a small, very small chance that you might.  

[Ret MP]

3 hours ago, BND said:

A US citizen is a US citizen.  Doesn't matter if by birth or naturalization for immigration/passport.

Yep.  Also, a Certificate of Naturalization or a Report of Citizen Born Abroad can be used in lieu of a passport. 

[RedIguana]

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

From the "GUEST CONDUCT POLICY":

 

"FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS POLICY, ANY OTHER OF OUR POLICIES, OR ANY INSTRUCTION COMMUNICATED BY US (INCLUDING OUR CREW) AT ANY TIME IN ANY FORM, WRITTEN OR ORAL, WILL BE CONSIDERED A BREACH OF THIS POLICY AND MAY RESULT IN ONE OR MORE ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS"

This is totally irrelevant to the discussion of documentation required for a cruise, but if you insist on bringing it up, it will be referenced in part or whole in the cruise contract, and is not an FAQ.

 

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

And from the Contract:  "b. Passengers are solely responsible to maintain in their possession all passports, visas and other travel documents required for embarkation, travel and disembarkation at all ports of call. Passengers assume full responsibility to determine through their travel agent or the appropriate government authority the necessary documents.

Thank you for verifying it is the contract that rules, and the FAQ's are general and non-binding.

 

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

Go ahead and show up with a passport without 6 months remaining on it.  You'll probably NOT have a problem.  But, there is a small, very small chance that you might.

As from the contract you listed above, and not the FAQ's you so love, it is the responsibility of the guest to have proper documentation for their cruise. Any cruise that accepts BC and DL will accept a passport with validity a day after the cruise, any cruise requiring more than that would require a passport and not BC/ID combo.   

 

 It's like that in Law Enforcement a lot, we used a lot of unused laws as a basis (probable cause) to achieve certain other goals. I'm going to fix this for you.

 

It's like that in Law Enforcement a lot, we used a lot of Made-Up laws (because we don't know and aren't required to know the laws) as a basis (to make-up probable cause) to achieve whatever we want.

 

20 years ago I had the lovely opportunity to spend a night in jail because one of your brethren decided to make up a law that doesn't exist. That prior law enforcement card you like to play does not go over well with a lot of us who have been on the wrong side of your "find probable cause". 

[BND]

3 hours ago, RedIguana said:

You are not going on a closed loop cruise using a divers license and a Russian birth certificate, even if a naturalized US citizen. In this case is does matter.

Well, since naturalized citizens have paperwork stating so, you are really reaching.  You don't get how it works.  Anyone who is a naturalized citizen would use their official US paperwork.

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by BND

[RedIguana]

5 minutes ago, BND said:

Well, since naturalized citizens have paperwork stating so, you are really reaching.  You don't get how it works.  Anyone who is a naturalized citizen would use their official US paperwork.

I do know how it works. I was replying to a guy about using his Birth certificate/Gov ID. If not a US citizen by birth, a BC/gov ID does not work, and you would need a passport and/or naturalization papers. A Russian birth certificate and US ID will not get you on a closed loop US cruise. Just use this as an  example as I have a naturalization Russian who works with me who just took a cruise. You will need a passport or naturalization papers. A naturalized citizen cannot use BC/gov ID for a closed looped cruise, they need passport/Nat papers, hence my assuming US citizen by birth to use BC/ID. 

 

 

[BND]

9 hours ago, RedIguana said:

I do know how it works. I was replying to a guy about using his Birth certificate/Gov ID. If not a US citizen by birth, a BC/gov ID does not work, and you would need a passport and/or naturalization papers. A Russian birth certificate and US ID will not get you on a closed loop US cruise. Just use this as an  example as I have a naturalization Russian who works with me who just took a cruise. You will need a passport or naturalization papers. A naturalized citizen cannot use BC/gov ID for a closed looped cruise, they need passport/Nat papers, hence my assuming US citizen by birth to use BC/ID. 

 

 

And, naturalized citizens know how to prove it.  Every single naturalized citizen I know has a passport.  Mainly because they return to their birth country to visit family.  A lot still also have citizenship with their birth country so they actually hold two passports.

[Ret MP]

11 hours ago, RedIguana said:

This is totally irrelevant to the discussion of documentation required for a cruise, but if you insist on bringing it up, it will be referenced in part or whole in the cruise contract, and is not an FAQ.

You totally miss the point!  The Guest Conduct POLICY makes ANY communication a policy and/or enforcable communication!  The Cruise Contract doesn't state how many bottles of wine you can bring on board, does it!  It doesn't discuss a dress code in detail, does it!  But, the Cruise Contract refers to other policies.  The contract isn't a policy, it's a contract and contracts must have a basis in fact.

 

Thank you for verifying it is the contract that rules, and the FAQ's are general and non-binding.  I guess you didn't read the "Failiure to Comply portion!  If you don't comply with their communications, regardless of mode, you are subject to adverse actions. 

 

11 hours ago, RedIguana said:

 

As from the contract you listed above, and not the FAQ's you so love, it is the responsibility of the guest to have proper documentation for their cruise. Any cruise that accepts BC and DL will accept a passport with validity a day after the cruise, any cruise requiring more than that would require a passport and not BC/ID combo.   

That's not what the FAQ, and no I don't love the FAQ a bit,  says.  But please stamp this on your forehead, I'm not saying they enforce it, but it's there if they want it.  And yes, it is the passenger's responsibility to have proper documentation that THEY and the governments involved require.  

11 hours ago, RedIguana said:

 

 It's like that in Law Enforcement a lot, we used a lot of unused laws as a basis (probable cause) to achieve certain other goals. I'm going to fix this for you.

 

It's like that in Law Enforcement a lot, we used a lot of Made-Up laws (because we don't know and aren't required to know the laws) as a basis (to make-up probable cause) to achieve whatever we want.  Don't even try to put words in my mouth.  You have no idea what I was talking about.  Just one example of what I was talking about though:  You see a vehicle with something that doesn't seem right but don't have probable cause to do the pull over, but you notice that a tire looks a little bald, you pull the car over to get a quicker and more close up look at what is going on inside.  And no, I'm not going to defend every cop out there.  There are good and bad in every profession.  

 

20 years ago I had the lovely opportunity to spend a night in jail because one of your brethren decided to make up a law that doesn't exist. That prior law enforcement card you like to play does not go over well with a lot of us who have been on the wrong side of your "find probable cause". I've never met a guilty person in jail.  But, I have met many that blame everything else for their issues.  

And I can tell who the cop haters are in here and you know what, I don't care!!!!!! The good folks that try to do the right thing will take note, without objection and make their decieion(s) from there.  I try to inform folks in here of the reality of things.  I don't try to tell anyone what to do. We all have the freedom of choice.  But, making a choice with a little knowledge is a good thiing.  

I'll end that there as I'm not sure you understand the whole contract/policy relationship thing. 

 

[Big_G]

On 8/4/2023 at 7:59 PM, musicman85 said:

Thank you everyone. Yes I'm going to get a certified copy of my birth certificate and bring it with my Passport and new driver's license I'm getting this October. I'm not chancing renewing my passport right now with the delays. God forbid my passport gets lost and then I'm really stuck out of luck! I'm a nervous traveler, so trying to avoid any unnecessary worries like this passport question. 

 

Between Royal and Celebrity we did 3 cruises out of Florida within 6 months of our passports expiring. No one batted an eye.