When ‘Free at Sea’ is not Free at At Sea

[DCGuy64]

Just now, BunnyHutt said:

Now here’s an important question… are my Bingo cards going to be subject to VAT when I’m on my Mediterranean cruise next year? 😆

Yes and so are your casino winnings!

[BunnyHutt]

1 minute ago, DCGuy64 said:

Yes and so are your casino winnings!

Boooo!!!

 

I don’t touch the casino, but if my $79 Bingo package is suddenly $95, I may have to rethink things. 🤣

 

- signed, an old lady in a middle-aged body who just spent more on Bingo than alcohol and literally walked away with only a lousy tshirt. 

 

 

[graphicguy]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

We never booked out of season (DW was a teacher). But the rest work for us. Neither of is a foodie, I am not really a drinker and DW cannot drink as it is contraindicated with a prescription drug she takes. And we like inside cabins as they are dark for sleeping.

I say go for it.  

 

I sailed a New England/Nova Scotia 7 nite cruise last year about this time in a Club Balcony with OBC.  IIRC, it was about $800 w/FAS, DSC, taxes, tips, all in.  By the time I got the $70 military discount I was close to $700.  Even an inside cabin was about the same fare, but without the OBC.

 

I shop total out of pocket.  Taxes and fees are going to be what they’re going to be.  Can’t do anything about them.  This one was one of my best finds.  I had a $0 folio on disembarkation day.  Plus, I drank until my heart’s content, had 2 Latitudes and 2 FAS Specialty Dinners.

 

As far as inside rooms, they’re not for me.  I LOVE throwing upon the curtains in the a.m. and seeing the sun rise on my balcony.  One of my true joys is having coffee and a danish on my balcony early in the a.m.

[DCGuy64]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

As far as inside rooms, they’re not for me.  I LOVE throwing upon the curtains in the a.m. and seeing the sun rise on my balcony.  One of my true joys is having coffee and a danish on my balcony early in the a.m.

The one benefit of the inside rooms (actually two), is that they offer great darkness, if you (like my wife) like to nap. The other is that they tend to be quieter, less rocking back and forth. I would love to throw open the curtains in the AM, but my wife (who likes to sleep in) would gouge my eyes out if I did that. I have to settle for having my coffee and pastries outside the room. Count your blessings, my friend! 😊 We've gotten used to the Club Balconies now, but we did an inside on our Oceania cruise back in April because the balconies (aka verandahs) cost more than our plane tickets. In Business Class. To Japan! 😆💸

[graphicguy]

9 hours ago, cruiser2015 said:

4-5 K?

Not for 17 days, LOL

Maybe not even for 7 days.

Just did.  On a cruise in the Mediterranean, in a 2 Bedroom Haven Suite, on the Epic, for 11 days, with $500 OBC,  that is sailing next week.

 

BTW…I’m bringing a $20 bill with me next week to cover Spain’s VAT!

Edited September 29, 2023 by graphicguy

[graphicguy]

Just now, DCGuy64 said:

The one benefit of the inside rooms (actually two), is that they offer great darkness, if you (like my wife) like to nap. The other is that they tend to be quieter, less rocking back and forth. I would love to throw open the curtains in the AM, but my wife (who likes to sleep in) would gouge my eyes out if I did that. I have to settle for having my coffee and pastries outside the room. Count your blessings, my friend! 😊 We've gotten used to the Club Balconies now, but we did an inside on our Oceania cruise back in April because the balconies (aka verandahs) cost more than our plane tickets. In Business Class. To Japan! 😆💸

I’ve looked at Oceania and Viking and Viking and Silver Seas.  Have yet to be able to justify their fares, yet.  But, I keep looking.

 

Maybe it’s me, but I don’t sleep as well in an inside cabin.  I think it’s the fear that it will be so dark I can’t find the bathroom and will find a surprise of my own making in the trash can when I turn on the light.

[DCGuy64]

7 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I’ve looked at Oceania and Viking and Viking and Silver Seas.  Have yet to be able to justify their fares, yet.  But, I keep looking.

 

Maybe it’s me, but I don’t sleep as well in an inside cabin.  I think it’s the fear that it will be so dark I can’t find the bathroom and will find a surprise of my own making in the trash can when I turn on the light.

I had to keep my phone with me as a flashlight so I wouldn't bang my knee on the little table!

[cruiser2015]

6 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Just did.  On a cruise in the Mediterranean, in a 2 Bedroom Haven Suite, on the Epic, for 11 days, with $500 OBC,  that is sailing next week.

Okay, cool.

 

There are the issues of where, what season, what ship that will affect the pricing of all of the cabins.

Some routes may have a great shoulder season bargain.

 

For my Panama cruise this January, NCL is asking a rate of about $1200 per day for Haven suite. It's more than 2.5 times the cost of my Club Balcony. The Haven is about 30% larger. I've read through the extra perks. Personally, I don't see a reasonable value for this upgrade. I think it's overpriced by thousands. 

[schmoopie17]

So...after 184 threads and eight pages...did we solve anything? Asking for a friend...

 

Probably not. Just like the umpteen previous VAT discussions on CC.

 

But it makes life entertaining. Well, sort of...

[graphicguy]

15 minutes ago, schmoopie17 said:

So...after 184 threads and eight pages...did we solve anything? Asking for a friend...

 

Probably not. Just like the umpteen previous VAT discussions on CC.

 

But it makes life entertaining. Well, sort of...

Nope….Spain is still charging VAT on drinks.  Apparently they aren’t reading this forum! 😉

[graphicguy]

20 minutes ago, cruiser2015 said:

Okay, cool.

 

There are the issues of where, what season, what ship that will affect the pricing of all of the cabins.

Some routes may have a great shoulder season bargain.

 

For my Panama cruise this January, NCL is asking a rate of about $1200 per day for Haven suite. It's more than 2.5 times the cost of my Club Balcony. The Haven is about 30% larger. I've read through the extra perks. Personally, I don't see a reasonable value for this upgrade. I think it's overpriced by thousands. 

Yeah…I agree.  That fare is nuts.  I have a hard stop on a Haven Fare at $5K for 7 nites, all in.  I have my own internal ceiling on ALL cabins on ALL cruise lines.  I wonder if I need some help?  LOL!

[DCGuy64]

32 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Nope….Spain is still charging VAT on drinks.  Apparently they aren’t reading this forum! 😉

I know, the nerve of them! 🤣

48 minutes ago, schmoopie17 said:

So...after 184 threads and eight pages...did we solve anything? Asking for a friend...

 

Probably not. Just like the umpteen previous VAT discussions on CC.

 

But it makes life entertaining. Well, sort of...

Yep, reminds me of that line from Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5. (But it contains a banned word, so I shall not repeat it here). 😉

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

They could save more money by living in their closet for 17 daus and eating oscar meyer for dinner.

Why Oscar Meyer? They could just eat fruits and vegetables, and it would even be more healthy.

[di T]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:07 PM, Stevio said:

Spanish waters tax rules have been around for years, as have the Italian. French do not appear to have changed their maritime VAT rules since 2021...

 

I was on Celebrity Silhouette last week and were warned of onboard ship purchases incurring VAT in both Spanish & Italian ports and waters. We sailed French waters at Marcais with no additional taxation whatsoever.

And all drinks ordered under the pre paid packages in whatever waters were received free of any extra taxation charges.

 

All these "local taxes" appear to have only one thing in common... They are applied only to NCL ships with regard to their Free at Sea deals. No other cruise lines charge taxes on pre paid packages.

Just off Celebrity cruise, we didn’t have a drink package and were charged the tax  on leaving Barcelona on drinks purchased this was only in Spanish waters, Purchases from the shops we paid tax on the first cruise( Barcelona to Italy) Then on our consecutive cruise from Italy back to Barcelona via Greece and Malta we were again charged 21% tax on gifts from the shops.On NCL in November Barcelona to Italy and expecting to pay tax on the free at sea drinks.Gratuity I’ve prepaid hope they are not adding extra to that too!

[DCGuy64]

6 minutes ago, di T said:

Just off Celebrity cruise, we didn’t have a drink package and were charged the tax  on leaving Barcelona on drinks purchased this was only in Spanish waters,

@PollyMurg reports talking with Celebrity guests who claimed they weren't charged the tax, so it's anyone's guess why some people are charged and others aren't. I guess I'll assume I'll be charged and be happy if I'm not. FWIW a friend of mine was on the Breakaway recently doing the same cruise we are, and he wasn't charged anything extra (Italy, Greece and Malta destination).

[graphicguy]

3 minutes ago, di T said:

Just off Celebrity cruise, we didn’t have a drink package and were charged the tax  on leaving Barcelona on drinks purchased this was only in Spanish waters, Purchases from the shops we paid tax on the first cruise( Barcelona to Italy) Then on our consecutive cruise from Italy back to Barcelona via Greece and Malta we were again charged 21% tax on gifts from the shops.On NCL in November Barcelona to Italy and expecting to pay tax on the free at sea drinks.Gratuity I’ve prepaid hope they are not adding extra to that too!

I just read last night on another cruise WEB site that this is a recent phenomena with Spain.  Apparently, either the port’s rules have changed, or they are enforcing old rules.  Either way, ports like Barcelona have been quoting environmental reasons as the reason for the VAT on drinks.  This comes as Barcelona becomes a busier cruise hub.

 

While, from an individual standpoint, a few dollars for the VAT aren’t going to impact me.  However, you multiply several cruise ships, with 10s of thousands of passengers by $10-$50 per cruise, that’s a substantial amount of money.

 

Show any government a significant revenue stream, and you can believe they’ll want their cut.

 

If Celebrity is doing this, Royal’s not far behind, with NCL and OCEANIA already “on board”.

[di T]

3 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

@PollyMurg reports talking with Celebrity guests who claimed they weren't charged the tax, so it's anyone's guess why some people are charged and others aren't. I guess I'll assume I'll be charged and be happy if I'm not. FWIW a friend of mine was on the Breakaway recently doing the same cruise we are, and he wasn't charged anything extra (Italy, Greece and Malta destination).

Might have been us not having a drink package! But hey had lots of OBC so didn’t rack up much of a bill just the extra tips. A glass of wine and a wee bottle of beer came to 28usd that’s with the extra tax, 

[cruiser2015]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

Yeah…I agree.  That fare is nuts.  I have a hard stop on a Haven Fare at $5K for 7 nites, all in.  I have my own internal ceiling on ALL cabins on ALL cruise lines.  I wonder if I need some help?  LOL!

Help - sure. How about a nice fat lottery ticket win?   😁

[DCGuy64]

10 minutes ago, di T said:

Might have been us not having a drink package! But hey had lots of OBC so didn’t rack up much of a bill just the extra tips. A glass of wine and a wee bottle of beer came to 28usd that’s with the extra tax, 

Well played, @di T! Use that OBC! 😊

[Girr]

3 hours ago, graphicguy said:

I just read last night on another cruise WEB site that this is a recent phenomena with Spain.  Apparently, either the port’s rules have changed, or they are enforcing old rules.  Either way, ports like Barcelona have been quoting environmental reasons as the reason for the VAT on drinks.  This comes as Barcelona becomes a busier cruise hub.

 

While, from an individual standpoint, a few dollars for the VAT aren’t going to impact me.  However, you multiply several cruise ships, with 10s of thousands of passengers by $10-$50 per cruise, that’s a substantial amount of money.

 

Show any government a significant revenue stream, and you can believe they’ll want their cut.

 

If Celebrity is doing this, Royal’s not far behind, with NCL and OCEANIA already “on board”.

Barcelona, like Venice and Amsterdam, is making changes to docking cruise ships.  Starting 22 Oct cruise ships will be banned from the northern docks, and I've read there's a possibility of another port being designated as "Barcelona" as in the case of Venice.   

 

Partial Barcelona Cruise Ship Ban to Begin in October (cruisehive.com)

 

Spain may be going after these tax dollars in anticipation of putting in new infastructure.  Or again, it may just be a money grab.   

Edited September 29, 2023 by Girr

[IAcruising]

15 hours ago, insidecabin said:

 

Bottom line is the total.

 

 

 

Bottom line is you're not paying $109 per day with FAS.

 

 

[UKstages]

On 9/27/2023 at 6:15 PM, KeithJenner said:

The merchants don’t pay the tax. Ultimately it is all paid by the final consumer.

there are taxes on each stage of production, which is one of the things people mention when they say that VAT is more fair than a sales tax. it’s a shared burden. presumably, the manufacturer and the merchant are paying taxes before any good gets to the consumer. but I believe that you are correct that ultimately the cost of doing business - and paying taxes - gets passed along to the consumer at the point of sale, before VAT is applied.

[KeithJenner]

22 minutes ago, UKstages said:

there are taxes on each stage of production, which is one of the things people mention when they say that VAT is more fair than a sales tax. it’s a shared burden. presumably, the manufacturer and the merchant are paying taxes before any good gets to the consumer. but I believe that you are correct that ultimately the cost of doing business - and paying taxes - gets passed along to the consumer at the point of sale, before VAT is applied.

This is how it works:

 

Somone produces some raw material and sells it on the a manufacturer for £100. They add on £20 VAT which they pay to the government. The manufacturer pays them the £20 VAT, but then claims that back off the government. Total net VAT paid to date is zero.

 

The manufacturer does some work to the product and sells it to a retailer for £200. They charge the retailer £200 plus £40 VAT, and they pay the VAT to the government. The retailer pays them that £40 and claims it back off the government. Total net VAT paid to date is zero.

 

The retailer then sells it on to the end customer for £300 plus £60 VAT. They pay that VAT to the government. The end customer pays that £60 to them and can't claim it back. Total VAT paid to date is £60, all of which was paid by the end user.

Edited September 30, 2023 by KeithJenner

[RocketMan275]

The attraction of VAT as a form of taxation is that it tends to obscure exactly how much tax is included in the final price.  Governments/politicians can falesely claim the taxes paid by the consumer are far less than they actually are.

[MoCruiseFan]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:33 PM, PollyMurg said:

Port taxes are now being added. This is on our cruise that left Marseille on Monday.

No prior warning. Many unhappy sailers. Never saw guest service queues like this ☹️

That is nota a port tac it is a Value Added Tax VAT that the locality REQUIRES to be added.  It is the locality where you are docked that is charging that not NCL.