Cancellation of cruise in the Middle East

[Hambagahle]

14 minutes ago, thetravellingta said:

Hello all.

I am yet another cruiser on the nov 29th oceania riviera sailing doing research on what my options are in terms of cancellation etc.

Unlike most, I booked my cruise after the change of itinerary that resulted in the days in greece followed by 9 sea days. I was going to be nearby in rome anyhow finishing up a month long trip a few days before this ship sailed, and me and my fiancee had yet to travel to Greece and were vary interested.

In terms of safety concerns, I was not concerned about going through the suez canal and red sea. There is a clear difference between stopping at a port and going through international waters in terms of safety in the area. I also contacted a family member who works high up in USAID, with specific knowledge of Africa & Middle East. At the time (around oct 24th) they also had no concerns about transiting through the area, which brought peace of mind.

I purchased travel insurance through Oceania (which unfortunately does not have a cancel for any reason clause) and proceeded, with the idea that if things got worse and the state department specifically recommended a level 4 avoid travel to an area the ship was going through, the travel insurance would be usable.

However, the hijacking by Houthi Rebels from Yemen of a car carrier a day ago in the red sea has flipped things around for me.

My current thoughts & knowledge; I am very curious to hear from fellow cruisers going on the same voyage as me on their thoughts:
1) Iran & Iranian backed groups have targeted ships before. A ship by the same Israeli businessman that partially owned the company that owned the car carrier had another ship in 2021 that was blown up off the coast of Oman by suspected Iranian's. Iran has targeted ships off its coast, and its been cargo ships, mostly oil, in response to U.S. sanctions, never cruise ships. 
2) One of the only times a cruise ship has had an attempted hijacking in recent memory, was off the coast of somalia by somali pirates, but the quick thinking of the captain and the faster more maneuverable cruise ship (in comparison to cargo ships) ment that the ship got away. The Houthi situation is different. What U.S. officials have said, is that the rebels came down from a helicopter and took control of the ship that way, which is a completely different situation that the speed of a ship cant due much of anything for. 
3) From looking at cruise mappers, there are some cruise ships that have recently went through this very passage, and have come out unscathed.
4) The Houthi's have stated that any Israeli owned ships are targets. Oceania is not israeli owned per my knowledge, and will fly no israeli flag (however, neither did the car carrier, and it was being managed by a japanese company with no israeli crewmembers onboard). This could in theory give me piece of mind, but that would mean I would trust the Houthi rebels to follow their word, and I most certainly do not. 
5) there are hundreds of cargo ships passing through the same area at this very moment, seemingly without issue, but I dont want to be the random ship chosen by these groups.

...The Hebridean Sky passed through the area on nov 17th, and if anyone per chance knowns anyone on the boat, it would be interesting to know what the line did security wise (of course it went through the area before the car carrier seizure)
 

Why don't you post the question about the Hebridean Sky on the boards for that company?  You are more likely to get an answer...

 

Personally with the current Oceania situation I smell a rat.  Our cruise is no longer going to Turkey.  The Vista will drop us at Trieste, as scheduled, on May 1 and the board passengers - who are going to Turkey.   I fail to understand this logic nor the reason for it.  If Oceania, in its infinite wisdom, doesn't want us to risk going to Turkey (which BTW was lumped with "Holy Land" ports in Ortega's letter) why is the Vista dropping us off, turning around and then going to Turkey.  Something else is afoot...the rat.  But what sort of rat ??

[PhD-iva]

There are likely security measures that we will never know about - they won’t be published or known in advance. A link to an article about the hijacked cargo ship IIRC, mentioned that the Suez Canal transit will be made at night…..

Given all your informed sources (versus uninformed/misinformed Americans), I’m surprised you thought the area was stable enough and would remain stable enough for you to join this cruise …… voluntarily I might add….

I hope you got a GOOD discount!

[ak1004]

7 hours ago, Jancruz said:

Believe me the round file will be full..but do what you feel is best for you..you asked my opinion and I gave it to you..signing off this thread

Jancuz1

 

I think you should listen to @Jancruz The only thing you will achieve by making too much noise is being banned from NCL for life. If this is the goal, go ahead and publish it on every single media you can.

 

This whole thread has been a colossal waste of time and energy. 

[thetravellingta]

1 minute ago, PhD-iva said:

There are likely security measures that we will never know about - they won’t be published or known in advance. A link to an article about the hijacked cargo ship IIRC, mentioned that the Suez Canal transit will be made at night…..

Given all your informed sources (versus uninformed/misinformed Americans), I’m surprised you thought the area was stable enough and would remain stable enough for you to join this cruise …… voluntarily I might add….

I hope you got a GOOD discount!

The suez canal and subsequent red sea transit is one of, if not the most, transited areas by cargo ships and other vessels in the world. 

Ever since the issues with somalian pirates, various safety measures were put in place that reduced piracy to insignificant levels in the area, such as a internationally recognized corridor for all ships to go in essentially a straight line together with navy ships of various countries keeping watch.

So at the time of booking (oct 27th), I did feel confident in the safety of the passage. It is only with the, quite surprising in my opinion, seizure of a boat yesterday that my safety assessment changed.

To answer your question about discount;
approx a quarter of current published fare.

[EJL2023]

11 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

I think you should listen to @Jancruz The only thing you will achieve by making too much noise is being banned from NCL for life. If this is the goal, go ahead and publish it on every single media you can.

 

This whole thread has been a colossal waste of time and energy. 

Agree! But they are getting their free group therapy! 

[roninman]

9 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

I think you should listen to @Jancruz The only thing you will achieve by making too much noise is being banned from NCL for life. If this is the goal, go ahead and publish it on every single media you can.

 

This whole thread has been a colossal waste of time and energy. 

 

If a consumer doesn't like some merchant's product or practices, and lets the merchant know their disappointment, the merchant may- instead of understanding or communicating- punish the consumer by not letting the consumer purchase the disappointing goods or services anymore.    

 

 

[Vallesan]

1 hour ago, thetravellingta said:

Hello all.

I am yet another cruiser on the nov 29th oceania riviera sailing doing research on what my options are in terms of cancellation etc.

Unlike most, I booked my cruise after the change of itinerary that resulted in the days in greece followed by 9 sea days. I was going to be nearby in rome anyhow finishing up a month long trip a few days before this ship sailed, and me and my fiancee had yet to travel to Greece and were vary interested.

In terms of safety concerns, I was not concerned about going through the suez canal and red sea. There is a clear difference between stopping at a port and going through international waters in terms of safety in the area. I also contacted a family member who works high up in USAID, with specific knowledge of Africa & Middle East. At the time (around oct 24th) they also had no concerns about transiting through the area, which brought peace of mind.

I purchased travel insurance through Oceania (which unfortunately does not have a cancel for any reason clause) and proceeded, with the idea that if things got worse and the state department specifically recommended a level 4 avoid travel to an area the ship was going through, the travel insurance would be usable.

However, the hijacking by Houthi Rebels from Yemen of a car carrier a day ago in the red sea has flipped things around for me.

My current thoughts & knowledge; I am very curious to hear from fellow cruisers going on the same voyage as me on their thoughts:
1) Iran & Iranian backed groups have targeted ships before. A ship by the same Israeli businessman that partially owned the company that owned the car carrier had another ship in 2021 that was blown up off the coast of Oman by suspected Iranian's. Iran has targeted ships off its coast, and its been cargo ships, mostly oil, in response to U.S. sanctions, never cruise ships. 
2) One of the only times a cruise ship has had an attempted hijacking in recent memory, was off the coast of somalia by somali pirates, but the quick thinking of the captain and the faster more maneuverable cruise ship (in comparison to cargo ships) ment that the ship got away. The Houthi situation is different. What U.S. officials have said, is that the rebels came down from a helicopter and took control of the ship that way, which is a completely different situation that the speed of a ship cant due much of anything for. 
3) From looking at cruise mappers, there are some cruise ships that have recently went through this very passage, and have come out unscathed.
4) The Houthi's have stated that any Israeli owned ships are targets. Oceania is not israeli owned per my knowledge, and will fly no israeli flag (however, neither did the car carrier, and it was being managed by a japanese company with no israeli crewmembers onboard). This could in theory give me piece of mind, but that would mean I would trust the Houthi rebels to follow their word, and I most certainly do not. 
5) there are hundreds of cargo ships passing through the same area at this very moment, seemingly without issue, but I dont want to be the random ship chosen by these groups.


With all that in mind, the situation is, uncertain. What would give me piece of mind, is to know what security measures Oceania will be taking in the area. After the attack of a cruise ship off the coast of somalia (2005) I have heard that other nearby cruise ships in the following days were then escorted by U.S. military ships through the area. If I knew that the same would be happening for oceania, that would bring me much needed piece of mind. 

The Hebridean Sky passed through the area on nov 17th, and if anyone per chance knowns anyone on the boat, it would be interesting to know what the line did security wise (of course it went through the area before the car carrier seizure)
 

I understand your concerns but I suggest you contact Oceania directly. Anybody on these boards would just be guessing.

[Hambagahle]

Does anyone have Harry Sommer's email ???

[Elless100]

HSommer@nclcorp.com

Also write to

OCIResutionsDesk@oceaniacruises.com

 

please also note 

 

for future there are some travel insurance companies that will cover terrorist event. ( not acts of war). Buying from cruise lines direct for insurance is not always in passengers best interest 

[GeezerCouple]

1 hour ago, thetravellingta said:

With all that in mind, the situation is, uncertain. What would give me piece of mind, is to know what security measures Oceania will be taking in the area. After the attack of a cruise ship off the coast of somalia (2005) I have heard that other nearby cruise ships in the following days were then escorted by U.S. military ships through the area. If I knew that the same would be happening for oceania, that would bring me much needed piece of mind. 

 

There is no chance in the world that you - or any of us - would possibly know what the security measures really are.  Some of those actions may be a bit more obvious or easier to figure out, but some of it will be kept as secret as possible, lest "the enemy" learn of the details and thus make efforts to defeat them.

 

GC

[thetravellingta]

Just now, GeezerCouple said:

 

There is no chance in the world that you - or any of us - would possibly know what the security measures really are.  Some of those actions may be a bit more obvious or easier to figure out, but some of it will be kept as secret as possible, lest "the enemy" learn of the details and thus make efforts to defeat them.

 

GC

Very true. I was able to find another post of someone on Regent that will be going through suez canal in the coming days and then through the red sea, hopefully through them I can find out what security measures end up being taken.

[GeezerCouple]

3 minutes ago, thetravellingta said:

Very true. I was able to find another post of someone on Regent that will be going through suez canal in the coming days and then through the red sea, hopefully through them I can find out what security measures end up being taken.

 

You *STILL* will have no idea of what the most serious security measures are/were... or hopefully not.

 

Most of those would never be apparent unless there is a need to implement them, in which case, there would be a critically dangerous situation for those involved.

The goal would be to AVOID needing to use all of "the security measures".

 

One possible example is that there may be armed security on board... and hopefully the passengers will never fully know they are there, or what they have with them...

 

GC

[cricketlover]

1 hour ago, Hambagahle said:

Why don't you post the question about the Hebridean Sky on the boards for that company?  You are more likely to get an answer...

 

Personally with the current Oceania situation I smell a rat.  Our cruise is no longer going to Turkey.  The Vista will drop us at Trieste, as scheduled, on May 1 and the board passengers - who are going to Turkey.   I fail to understand this logic nor the reason for it.  If Oceania, in its infinite wisdom, doesn't want us to risk going to Turkey (which BTW was lumped with "Holy Land" ports in Ortega's letter) why is the Vista dropping us off, turning around and then going to Turkey.  Something else is afoot...the rat.  But what sort of rat ??

We are also on the cruise departing 21st April and we cannot understand that we can’t go to Turkey but the cruise on May 1st can.  It’s very strange.

[ak1004]

46 minutes ago, roninman said:

 

If a consumer doesn't like some merchant's product or practices, and lets the merchant know their disappointment, the merchant may- instead of understanding or communicating- punish the consumer by not letting the consumer purchase the disappointing goods or services anymore.    

 

 

 

Letting the merchant know their disappointment wouldn't get you get banned. Opening a dispute and/or making noise in the media might. If the consumer is aware of this possibility and the consumer is willing to face the consequences, then the consumer might go ahead and do it. But then the consumer should not come back to CC and complain that they were banned. Personally I would do the same if I were NCL.

[Elless100]

34 minutes ago, Hambagahle said:

Does anyone have Harry Sommer's email ???

See my reply 

[roninman]

8 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

Letting the merchant know their disappointment wouldn't get you get banned. Opening a dispute and/or making noise in the media might. If the consumer is aware of this possibility and the consumer is willing to face the consequences, then the consumer might go ahead and do it. But then the consumer should not come back to CC and complain that they were banned. Personally I would do the same if I were NCL.

 

Retaliate even were the claim legitimate?

 

[MMarianne]

28 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

I think you should listen to @Jancruz The only thing you will achieve by making too much noise is being banned from NCL for life. If this is the goal, go ahead and publish it on every single media you can.

 

This whole thread has been a colossal waste of time and energy. 

As said before, silence=consent/complicity. I will be not be silent. I believe it’s important to share what we know and let others (including Oceania execs— round file or not) know what we have learned. Any of you that think these comments are a waste of time do not need to participate. 

 

[MMarianne]

1 hour ago, roninman said:

 

If a consumer doesn't like some merchant's product or practices, and lets the merchant know their disappointment, the merchant may- instead of understanding or communicating- punish the consumer by not letting the consumer purchase the disappointing goods or services anymore.    

 

 

Banned from NCL? Bring it on! Never, ever will I cruise with any ship affiliated with them. 

I tried to (unsuccessfully) link an article from Independent UK that had responses from three different cruise lines regarding Middle East cruises. READ AND COMPARE! Too late for me for this trip, but hopefully others will take note.  

MSC Sinfonia cancelled its winter program as Haifa was a highlighted port. Passengers can claim a full refund or choose an alternate sailing.

Celebrity Infinity cancelled their Eastern Mediterranean sailings for Feb-April ‘24. Passengers can cancel w full refund. 

 

Oceania “reserves the right to amend, cancel, or make substitutions for any travel component without prior notice to the guest, including hotels, ports of call, or other modes of transportation if, in its opinion, the situation requires a change of arrangements.”

 

Likely all cruise lines have such language, but appears many try to do better than what they are allowed to do. FYI - I’ve been treated extremely well by Viking over the years, but the allure of this particular advertised cruise sucked me (and my money) in. 

[Vineyard View]

9 hours ago, Jancruz said:

OK if you insist on writing someone it would have be Harry Sommer,(go to the top) who I am sure is the  one that said no in the first place..he is the ONLY one that can make that decision..he took FDRs place as CEO reach him or his assistant at  NCL executive offices

Jancruz1

Good Luck

Thank you. I sincerely appreciate your response Jancruz1. 

If Harry Sommer is the one who made the decision to rescind the offered FCC, then, IMO, he has questionable ethical standards. As CEO, displaying low ethics, is a sad statement.  Maybe he too will be replaced one of these days. 

[Vineyard View]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

 

I think you should listen to @Jancruz The only thing you will achieve by making too much noise is being banned from NCL for life. If this is the goal, go ahead and publish it on every single media you can.

 

This whole thread has been a colossal waste of time and energy. 

I doubt those who had their FCC would be broken hearted. 
 

No disrespect meant, but you’ve spent a lot of time on this thread……and yet unfortunately there is truth in that,  because clearly now, at the end of the day, regardless of how disgusting the act was by Oceania, they are still not doing right by those who had the promised FCC. That is quite eye opening. 

[Harry Lake]

1 hour ago, Vineyard View said:

Thank you. I sincerely appreciate your response Jancruz1. 

If Harry Sommer is the one who made the decision to rescind the offered FCC, then, IMO, he has questionable ethical standards. As CEO, displaying low ethics, is a sad statement.  Maybe he too will be replaced one of these days. 

I long ago heard a quote but have never checked. But I think of it when situations like this occur.

 

Managers Hire in their Own Image.

[Abby0651]

6 hours ago, thetravellingta said:

Very true. I was able to find another post of someone on Regent that will be going through suez canal in the coming days and then through the red sea, hopefully through them I can find out what security measures end up being taken.

 

3 hours ago, Harry Lake said:

I long ago heard a quote but have never checked. But I think of it when situations like this occur.

 

Managers Hire in their Own Image.

I heard there was notice of a piracy drill resulting in passengers disembarking earlier than planned in Croatia.  Think the piracy drill involved lying on the ground.

I have been through this area on a luxury ship before.  There was no such drill.  We were told to keep curtains closed at night and balcony lights off.

I heard that this drill for piracy was heralded as being needed for piracy without mention that a ship was just hijacked and the crew are hostages.

I think it would be very difficult to take over the huge Riviera.  It also might have catastrophic World consequences if it did occur.  IMO a stray drone or missle that undershoots its target is more of a concern.  There are neighborhoods I wisely do not drive through because of fear of stray bullets.

prayers for a very good safe trip

[Harry Lake]

24 minutes ago, Abby0651 said:

It also might have catastrophic World consequences if it did occur.  

I'm far from an extremist but this 'situation' disturbs me quite a bit. Both the geography and the bad history between so many of these nations. If the people in charge of cruise companies would at least get their ships and people out of there, it would be one fewer opportunities. IMneverHO of course.

[Elless100]

25 minutes ago, Abby0651 said:

 

I heard there was notice of a piracy drill resulting in passengers disembarking earlier than planned in Croatia.  Think the piracy drill involved lying on the ground.

I have been through this area on a luxury ship before.  There was no such drill.  We were told to keep curtains closed at night and balcony lights off.

I heard that this drill for piracy was heralded as being needed for piracy without mention that a ship was just hijacked and the crew are hostages.

I think it would be very difficult to take over the huge Riviera.  It also might have catastrophic World consequences if it did occur.  IMO a stray drone or missle that undershoots its target is more of a concern.  There are neighborhoods I wisely do not drive through because of fear of stray bullets.

prayers for a very good safe trip

It’s ridiculous that anyone should spend $20000-30000 snd more on a vacation snd have to deal with piracy drill. At the minimum Oceania should have let people get full cruise credit snd been a hero of goodwill.   I have heard of some who got full credits on their credit cards, others on claims through insurance that covers terrorism , but everyone has left this experience thinking they will cruise a different line next time 

[Elless100]

4 minutes ago, Elless100 said:

It’s ridiculous that anyone should spend $20000-30000 snd more on a vacation snd have to deal with piracy drill. At the minimum Oceania should have let people get full cruise credit snd been a hero of goodwill.   I have heard of some who got full credits on their credit cards, others on claims through insurance that covers terrorism , but everyone has left this experience thinking they will cruise a different line next time 

I would love to know if that piracy still is a fact