Viking Air - misleading and unhelpful

[Lemondrops]

I am a repeat Viking Cruise customer and LOVE their cruise line but this is the first time I bought a cruise with air included.  BIG MISTAKE!  Even after paying the additional fee for a divergency AND an additional fee for Air Plus, once my air flights were ticketed by Viking, Delta Airlines would not allow me to use my Sky Miles to upgrade my basic economy seat to any higher class including Economy Plus.   First, Viking told me I had to upgrade directly with the airline.  When I called the airline, Delta, they told me they were not the "operating carrier" and I would have to call KLM Airlines.  I called KLM and they said they said to call back Delta as Delta IS a mile partner and should allow me to upgrade using my Sky Miles.  Called back Delta and asked to speak to a supervisor who told me they can't upgrade me because Viking buys their seats in bulk and I should call back Viking.  Called Viking back again and they told me they had no control over what the airline mandates but agreed to call Delta to see what they could do.  Viking called me back and said Delta told them the reason I cant use my miles is because KLM is the operating carrier.  Does any of this make sense to you when Delta and KLM BOTH HONOR SKY MILES?  Bottom line - after spending 6 hours on the phone, being batted back and forth between Viking, Delta, KLM and back to Viking I am stuck in economy on a transatlantic flight.  The Viking supervisor that I spoke to was very little help and took no responsibility for giving out incorrect information.  WARNING - if your seat on the plane is important to you and you have thousands of air miles that you'd like to use to upgrade your seat, don't count on Viking for this.  Book your own air.  I'm really sorry I didn't. 

[CCWineLover]

Don't feel bad.  I'm sure many of us veterans have already learned our lesson and no longer use Viking Air.  Love the cruise line.  Dislike that they are still offering Air and Insurance services (via the airlines and tripmate 3rd parties).  They don't handle that well and mostly don't communicate well. So many have the wrong expectations. If Viking just nicely spelled out to people all the nuances of their air and insurance services, so many more people would not be disappointed and frustrated.

[Breckski]

Don't feel bad.  Live and learn.  You made the best decision at the time with the information/knowledge/experience you have.  

 

Personally, I always book my own air whenever I travel.  But I've made mistakes in my bookings before also.

[Mike07]

They're called sky pesos for a reason.

[Reaniel]

I'm not trying to be a Viking fanboi here, but it sounds more like a Delta/KLM issue than a Viking issue.

 

From what I can piece together from your description:

1. Your flight has legs consisting both Delta and KLM flights.  The transatlantic leg is a Delta.

2. Viking Air *most likely* booked the flight through KLM, not Delta, and it ended up with KLM being the managing carrier of the whole thing.

3. You're trying to use your Sky Mile points to upgrade your seat.

 

Unfortunately, contrary to what you've stated in your post, that KLM does NOT, in fact, honor Sky Mile.  KLM, along with Air France, has their own program called "Fly Blue", and it's independent of Sky Mile.

 

When you fly on any flights belonging to SkyTeam alliance, you may earn points/miles for any reward programs from any airline in the alliance.  For example, you can earn Sky Mile on KLM/Air France flights, or Fly Blue points on Delta flights, etc.

 

However, each of the programs are independent of one another, and you may only redeem points (Sky Mile in your case) for things like seat upgrade on tickets where the company is the primary carrier (Delta, in your case).

 

I know it sucks, but it's just the way it is at this time.  KLM doesn't honor Sky Mile points the same way Delta doesn't honor Fly Blue points.

[Murt22]

I originally booked Viking Air for a cruise next September but got a refund when we decided to do a divergence and also because we wanted more control. I am now scoping out the possible flights and it is has confirmed that picking our own flights was the way to go. There are so many bad choices available, that I am glad I didn't leave it to Viking to pick it for us. 

[Reaniel]

3 minutes ago, Murt22 said:

I originally booked Viking Air for a cruise next September but got a refund when we decided to do a divergence and also because we wanted more control. I am now scoping out the possible flights and it is has confirmed that picking our own flights was the way to go. There are so many bad choices available, that I am glad I didn't leave it to Viking to pick it for us. 

 

It depends on the sailing as well as what Viking is offering.  There are quite a few itineraries where *free air* is offered, and in those cases, booking your own flight is almost like throwing money away.

 

What you can do is either pay $100 per person for minor flight deviations, or $150 per person for Viking Plus customization.  They're both pretty decent for their value, and all things considered, would save you money overall.

 

Of course, for sailings where Viking Air is offered at full price, it's probably cheaper/more convenient for folks to book their own flight.

[Emptynesters38]

Sorry for your problems. I usually book my flights myself unless Viking or another cruise line  has a great deal on flights.  I am not an expert on airlines but I fly Delta frequently and I noticed that the OP said “Delta Airlines would not allow me to use my Sky Miles to upgrade my basic economy seat to any higher class including Economy Plus.”

 

Perhaps the problem is that Viking bought Basic Economy which is the least expensive ticket.

The Delta website states that Basic Economy  “***Not eligible for MQM, MQS or MQD earn, paid or complimentary access or upgrades to premium seats, including to Delta Comfort+® or Preferred Seats; and no paid access to Priority Boarding.”

 

I would see how much it would cost me to buy a Main Cabin ticket and use miles to upgrade or fly another carrier.

 

Good luck.

[Murt22]

We have to go through ORD, DEN or DFW for almost all of our connections - which then leads to usually at least one more connection before the transcontinental flight. Many connections are less than an hour or conversely very long. I just checked the price of a business class direct flight to Europe from ORD and it is about $2000 cheaper than from our home airport. We aren't getting free air, and they said if it cost more than we paid originally, we were responsible for it - but supposedly if it was cheaper, we wouldn't get the savings. I am a control freak - so feel better to control what I can control.

[FlyerTalker]

To Lemondrops (and whomever else may be interested):

 

Simple fact of life is that you cannot always upgrade tickets.  The reasons may be any of a number of different situations.

 

First off -- the fare rules for the ticket do not allow for upgrades. Or they do not allow a mile or cash upgrade.

 

Secondly -- there may not be any upgrade inventory available.  Just because there are revenue seats available in an upgrade cabin does not mean that there is any upgrade inventory, which is a subset of total seats.

 

Third -- upgrades generally are not applicable beyond the program of the operating carrier.  So you might be able to upgrade a DL flight from JFK to CDG, but not an AF operated flight between the same two cities.  Your SkyPesos aren't worth anything towards an upgrade on partner carriers, just as those partner miles aren't valid for upgrading DL metal.

 

Beyond that, your post has a number of inaccuracies.  DL and KL do not both "honor" SkyMiles.  Though you may earn SM on KL and may redeem for award tickets, there is no fungibility between the two programs.  Further, it seems you bought the ticket and then just assumed you would be able to upgrade -- did you research this BEFORE the purchase?   Finally, I hope you understand that you would be paying many tens of thousands of miles for any kind of upgrade, as DL credits your SM for only a penny towards the cash upgrade price.  From coach to business for a TATL flight would be several thousands in cash.  Assuming it would be $2000, that works out to 200,000 SM.  Did you really plan to use that many for this upgrade.

 

Caveat emptor.

 

 

[Lemondrops]

2 hours ago, Reaniel said:

 

From what I can piece together from your description:

1. Your flight has legs consisting both Delta and KLM flights.  The transatlantic leg is a Delta.

2. Viking Air *most likely* booked the flight through KLM, not Delta, and it ended up with KLM being the managing carrier of the whole thing.

3. You're trying to use your Sky Mile points to upgrade your seat.

 Just to be clear: Viking booked my tickets with Delta.  Delta is using a KLM plane for both legs of my trip. (Delta is the managing airline and KLM is the operating airline) and I'm trying to use my Sky Miles with Delta.  Delta first told me to call KLM since KLM was the operating airline.  KLM told me to call back Delta, and they WOULD honor an upgrade made via SkyMiles but Delta would have to manage the transfer of miles because Delta was the managing airline. (I'm just telling you what they told me today - maybe they also gave me bad information?)  I called back Delta and then they changed their reason for not allowing me to upgrade and blamed the decision on Viking's bulk purchasing deal.  Viking's response: we have no control over the airlines.  My issue with Viking is that before I even booked this trip I specifically asked if I would have any control over the flight booking and upgrading and they said YES - IF I PAID FOR AIR PLUS, which I did.  Jokes on me and yes, I learned my lesson but by posting here I hope I can save even 1 person from sitting on the phone all day with Viking, Delta and KLM! It was a total waste of my day and frustrating beyond belief but thanks for your response. 

[Lemondrops]

1 hour ago, FlyerTalker said:

Assuming it would be $2000, that works out to 200,000 SM.  Did you really plan to use that many for this upgrade.

 

Yes, I did plan to use that many.  Actually more since I planned to upgrade my partners ticket as well.  But thanks for sharing "the facts". Personally, I think the tone of your response was a bit condescending.  I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but when you make a statement like "your post has a number of inaccuracies" it certainly sounds that way. Of course I asked questions before booking but unfortunately I was given inaccurate information from Viking - thus the whole reason for my post.  Again, live and learn and I hope my post will help someone else, maybe not you since you seem to already know it all. 

[Lemondrops]

5 hours ago, CCWineLover said:

Don't feel bad.  I'm sure many of us veterans have already learned our lesson and no longer use Viking Air.  Love the cruise line.  Dislike that they are still offering Air and Insurance services (via the airlines and tripmate 3rd parties).  They don't handle that well and mostly don't communicate well. So many have the wrong expectations. If Viking just nicely spelled out to people all the nuances of their air and insurance services, so many more people would not be disappointed and frustrated.

Thank you for your response and may I just say I want your life!  Love your upcoming and past trips!!!

[Selion]

8 hours ago, Lemondrops said:

I specifically asked if I would have any control over the flight booking and upgrading and they said YES - IF I PAID FOR AIR PLUS

That's a correct response from Viking.  You have control to change your flights and pay for upgrade through Viking Air, as they are the booking agency.  Viking would not have any control over upgrading with FF miles, since that's controlled by the airlines.

 

Ran into a similar situation at work.  One traveler booked flights to India on Delta through our TMC (travel management company, corporate speak for travel agency).  He then wanted to upgrade his booking to business class using his SkyMiles.  Delta upgraded the transatlantic part but wouldn't let him upgrade the 2nd segment (AMS-Delhi) because it was on KLM.  He blamed the TMC for making a mistake.  There was nothing done incorrectly by the TMC.  If he had wanted to upgrade to biz class and have the company pay for it, that can be done by the TMC (and our policy allows biz class on 7+ hours flights).

Edited October 26, 2023 by Selion

[FlyerTalker]

9 hours ago, Lemondrops said:

 Just to be clear: Viking booked my tickets with Delta.  Delta is using a KLM plane for both legs of my trip. (Delta is the managing airline and KLM is the operating airline) and I'm trying to use my Sky Miles with Delta

 

Delta is NOT "using" a KLM plane.  Delta is not the "managing" airline.

 

Delta is the marketing carrier and KLM is the operating carrier.  Although there may be a DL flight number on the flight, just because it carries the DL code does NOT make it a Delta flight.  It is a KL flight, and KL rules apply.  So you are actually trying to use your SkyMiles with KL flights, not with DL flights.

 

9 hours ago, Lemondrops said:

My issue with Viking is that before I even booked this trip I specifically asked if I would have any control over the flight booking and upgrading and they said YES - IF I PAID FOR AIR PLUS, which I did.

 

No problem with managing your booking, which means selection of seats and including your personal information in the record.  And no problem with upgrading IF you both a) have an upgradable ticket and b) process the upgrade through the operating carrier.   But even then, there are caveats.

 

From the Delta website:

 

Upgrade Offer: Mileage Upgrade Award is valid for upgraded one-way travel on most Delta Air Lines -and certain Virgin Atlantic/Air France/KLM and Aeromexico-operated flights worldwide, including connecting flights, between the origin and destination of a ticketed fare. Member must have a sufficient mileage balance to upgrade each requested passenger for the eligible one-way flight segment in the reservation. Any stopovers are governed by the fare rule, and additional mileage will be required for broken fares. All rules of the fare purchased will apply except as changed by this offer. SkyMiles mileage credit will be based upon purchased fare class. Space is limited and subject to availability. Seats may not be available on all flights, in all markets, or for select fare classes. With the exception of Virgin Atlantic, Mileage Upgrade Awards allow a one cabin upgrade from the purchased fare.

 

Eligibility: Eligible only if flights in the reservation are not being credited to another airline’s frequent traveler program. The following unpublished fares are not eligible for Mileage Upgrade Awards: Delta bulk fares, companion fares, group fares, certain pricing programs, Round the World fares, and International Bereavement Fares.

 

Within North America and Northern South America (Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, and Venezuela), Mileage Upgrade Awards may be used to upgrade on published fares booked in Y, B, M, H, Q, K, L, U, or T class. For all other International markets, Mileage Upgrade Awards may be used to upgrade only on published fares for Delta-marketed and operated flights booked in Y, B, M, H, Q, or K class. For Air France/KLM marketed and/or operated flights, Mileage Upgrade Awards may be used to upgrade one cabin for flights booked in Y, B, or M class.

 

 

So...there are very limited opportunity to mileage upgrade a DL marketed flight on KL.  You need to first be on a Y B or M fare (aka full or almost full fare coach).  You can only upgrade one cabin (from coach to premium economy) and there must be upgrade inventory.

 

The devil is in the details, and one must know the rules in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by FlyerTalker

[Selion]

14 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

Although there may be a DL flight number on the flight, just because it carries the DL code does NOT make it a Delta flight.

☝️ Codeshares are confusing.  I've given up on explaining Fly America Act to new hires to the training experts.

[Australia08]

Codeshares are difficult to understand. That’s why we book our own seats using the class of.service category we desire. 

[KBs mum]

In this case, delta are selling seats on KLM, and/or KLM are sling seats via delta. Your contract is with the one you booked with. In most cases booking via the operating airline is best. Ask Viking which airline they booked your seat with. Then talk to them

[gradydude]

In defense of FlyTalker, he knows his stuff about the airline industry.  I have found DL to be getting stingier with their upgradable inventory.  For example, try and use one of those regional or international upgrade certs they reward you with for $ spent and loyalty.  I have found them worthless. Had tickets booked using regional certs for upgrade, DL famous for schedule changes, bumped the First class seats saying they were not available on the new schedule but would be happy to waitlist.  There seemed to be plenty of F class seats for purchase.  And the sky miles, mileage plus liability has to be huge for the airlines with people not flying for a few years. 

[FlyerTalker]

47 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

In this case, delta are selling seats on KLM, and/or KLM are sling seats via delta. Your contract is with the one you booked with. In most cases booking via the operating airline is best. Ask Viking which airline they booked your seat with. Then talk to them

 

Your best source is to look at your actual ticket number.  The first three digits are the IATA accounting code, and indicate which carrier issued the ticket.

 

In this case, if the first three digits are 006, that's a DL issued ticket.  If 074, it's a KL issued ticket.  Might even be 057, which is Air France.

 

Relying on the same pool of agents (Viking) that sold the ticket you are having problems with seems to be a less than optimum situation.  As for who your contract is with - I would defer to a transportation attorney who would refer to the various airlines' contract of carriage.

 

 

[Mike07]

15 hours ago, Lemondrops said:

Yes, I did plan to use that many.  Actually more since I planned to upgrade my partners ticket as well.  But thanks for sharing "the facts". Personally, I think the tone of your response was a bit condescending.  I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but when you make a statement like "your post has a number of inaccuracies" it certainly sounds that way. Of course I asked questions before booking but unfortunately I was given inaccurate information from Viking - thus the whole reason for my post.  Again, live and learn and I hope my post will help someone else, maybe not you since you seem to already know it all. 

 

 

FlyerTalker can speak a bit harshly and be rough around the edges about the way he presents facts, but he's not wrong on aviation topics.

 

I likely don't fly nearly as often as he does, but more often than not when people complain about airline issues, it's because they have no idea what policies, never fly, or make unrealistic or inaccurate assumptions.

[FlyerTalker]

18 minutes ago, gradydude said:

In defense of FlyTalker, he knows his stuff about the airline industry.

 

Thanks.  I try to bring the world of reality into discussions.  And don't sugar coat - because the world doesn't.

 

19 minutes ago, gradydude said:

I have found DL to be getting stingier with their upgradable inventory.

 

There seemed to be plenty of F class seats for purchase. 

 

DL has reported in their investor calls that they are averaging about 75% monetization of their first/business cabins. Ten years ago, that number was in the teens. Which means very little inventory for upgrades, either with miles or with status or with certs.  Factor to remember is that upgrade/award inventory is always a subset of overall cabin inventory.  And often a very small subset.

 

 

 

 

[Lemondrops]

3 hours ago, gradydude said:

In defense of FlyTalker, he knows his stuff about the airline industry.  I have found DL to be getting stingier with their upgradable inventory.  For example, try and use one of those regional or international upgrade certs they reward you with for $ spent and loyalty.  I have found them worthless. Had tickets booked using regional certs for upgrade, DL famous for schedule changes, bumped the First class seats saying they were not available on the new schedule but would be happy to waitlist.  There seemed to be plenty of F class seats for purchase.  And the sky miles, mileage plus liability has to be huge for the airlines with people not flying for a few years. 

 

[Lemondrops]

Hate to break it to you but FlyTalker actually doesn't know his stuff as well has he would like us all to believe.  A Delta supervisor called me today and told me exactly how I can upgrade my seats with them.  KLM is only the operating airline so as the KLM person told me yesterday, I do need to do this through Delta even though I will be flying on KLM.  KLM was correct after all.  FlyTalker, not so much.   Meanwhile, my original post still stands.  Don't book your air through Viking unless you really don't care about your flights or seating. They are of little help.  And for the record, the average consumer shouldn't have to "study" airline policies and rules or hire an attorney to figure out the best way to book a flight and use airline miles. We use travel agents for that.  In this case, my travel agent, Viking Cruises, failed miserably.  I asked the right questions in advance and was given an inaccurate answer. I certainly could have managed this myself by calling the airline directly and telling them exactly what I wanted to do.  I've done this successfully for years with American and have always been able to use my miles to fly from Los Angeles to the Caribbean in first class. It's really not rocket science but in this case, it certainly felt like it.  Again, lesson learned. Viking excels in the water but still needs some lessons in flying.  Take care everyone and happy travels!

[MikeyB]

Popcorn, anyone?