Gratuities on board

[zitsky]

18 minutes ago, the penguins said:

You can pre pay the grats or they will be added to your onboard account every day. If you have any OBC the grats will be deducted from that on a daily basis starting with any “non refundable”.

There is no pressure to pay over and above the standard grats although many choose to do so depending on the level of service (we generally pay something to our waiter, assistant waiter and room steward although not the steward on our last cruise).

The daily tips are apportioned as detailed earlier in this thread.

No pressure for extra tips?  So employees have stopped suggesting it?  That’s good to know.

 

It is rather heartless of me to only pay these people minimum wage.  They have families to support!

[PTC DAWG]

46 minutes ago, seanquirke said:

Hi all, 

 

We will never agree on this subject. For me I don't agree that any company let alone a multi billion pound corporation has the right to ask me to pay  Staff appreciation to help top up their wages. Why oh why do we even consider that this is acceptable behaviour. Why am I made to feel or even be told on this site that I am a bad person if I pay $6000 for a cruise in a basic balcony cabin and remove any staff appreciation. Why is that blame not clearly sent packing in the direction of the Corporation who employed  these staff. We all know they work hard. Well guess what. So do I in fact I have worked hard my whole life. A 12 hour day is nothing abnormal to me and never has been. I apply for the job and work hard at being recognised as someone they can not do without. I hit my targets and beyond and then I ask for a pay rise.

Its always perplexed me as to why we allow this to happen and why the USA allows fat cat corporations to get away with paying cents. Rather than the going rate with the opportunity to progress within the company. I assume the later does indeed present itself but you guys need to stop blaming the likes of me for removing this and yet say not a single word to the likes of Carnival or Royal Caribbean. Don't even get me going on the 18-20% gratuity added to each drink. What on this planet is that about. $10-15 for 1 glass of wine poured from a bottle I can buy in my own super market for $8 and then I'm given no choice but to pay a gratuity. 

 

 Before I  go. When I am in the US I get on the HOHO bus to discover this great new city I find myself in. There's never any earphones. But there is a guide who has self taught themselves everything about the route we are taking. This person constantly reminds me that they don't get paid by the bus company and proceeds to get off at every stop again reminding me that he gets no wages from the bus company that have invested in jack points and software that will deliver in detail and 6 different languages, everything I need to know. and they & the driver will share these very much appreciated tips. So yes I tip because I'm British and feel embarrassed to walk past and ignore. Do I want to. NO. The same journey happens in Europe. The earphones are worn by all including our US friends and to date I have never witnessed one single person tipping that driver.  If I want to chat to my wife and enjoy the view in peace I take off my earphones We pay our fair we Hop on & Off as instructed and we are happy. The driver gets paid the going rate and they too are happy. 

 

That I am aware of. Not one single hotel in the whole of Europe asks that we pay a staff appreciation. certainly not one I have stayed at in my 60 years. 

 

Thanks 

Honestly, cruising may not be for you if it bothers you that much.  Not sure what Hotels in Europe has to do with anything we are talking about here.  

 

I go by the "when in Rome" mantra...Most Cruise Lines charge daily gratuities..it's not for me to figure out why.  

 

Have you offered to pay a higher fare to supplement the crew's salaries?  

Edited November 6, 2023 by PTC DAWG

[bEwAbG]

49 minutes ago, seanquirke said:

Hi all, 

 

We will never agree on this subject. For me I don't agree that any company let alone a multi billion pound corporation has the right to ask me to pay  Staff appreciation to help top up their wages. Why oh why do we even consider that this is acceptable behaviour. Why am I made to feel or even be told on this site that I am a bad person if I pay $6000 for a cruise in a basic balcony cabin and remove any staff appreciation.

 

I generally agree with those who think tipping has gotten out of hand (everywhere), but you aren't buying a cruise for $6K.  You are buying a cruise for $6K + the expectation that you will pay the tips at $X per person per day.  It's not like they spring it on you after the fact.  Plenty of blame for the corporations that do this, but, at the end of the day, the employees should not be the ones made to suffer.  Choosing to book with the corporation means you agree to abide by their operations, which includes the daily gratuity scheme.  The real way to protest would be to not book the cruise.  Protesting by removing the grats means you are stiffing the employees. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by bEwAbG

[RichYak]

46 minutes ago, seanquirke said:

you guys need to stop blaming the likes of me for removing this and yet say not a single word to the likes of Carnival or Royal Caribbean

No, I will continue to blame you. If you want to be principled, stop sailing these cruise lines. Choosing to sail and removing the tips is not principled, it is simply cheap. And you are the only one to blame.

[deliver42]

It's easy. Pay the gratuities or don't cruise.

[zitsky]

1 minute ago, bEwAbG said:

 

I generally agree with those who think tipping has gotten out of hand (everywhere), but you aren't buying a cruise for $6K.  You are buying a cruise for $6K + the expectation that you will pay the tips at $X per person per day.  It's not like they spring it on you after the fact.  Plenty of blame for the corporations that do this, but, at the end of the day, the employees should not be the ones made to suffer.  Choosing to book with the corporation means you agree to abide by their operations, which includes the daily gratuity scheme.  The real way to protest would be to not book the cruise.  Protesting that by removing the grats means you are stiffing the employees. 

The virtue signaling on this board amuses and irritates me at the same time.  So much posturing about who treats employees better or who deserves to cruise.

 

Which one of you goes to McDonald’s and tips the staff?  When’s the last time you tipped the attendant at the gas station who sold you a bottle of soda?  Do you tip the IRS when you file your taxes?

 

When I book a cruise and pay for gratuities BEFORE the cruise and pay gratuities on drinks DURING the cruise, do you then expect me to pay ADDITIONAL gratuities for every employee on board?  Seeing as I personally pay their salaries?

 

I tip people but I hope I don’t come across as being better than everyone else.

[markeb]

6 hours ago, lovetravel63-65 said:

Why do they not price gratuities into the fare and make it simple.P& O do in the U.K

 

P&O largely markets to the UK where that would be the norm. Celebrity does market fully included fares in Australia (and I assume New Zealand). I really don't know why they don't do that in the UK, other than it would work best if all cruise lines marketing in the UK did the same thing and if they don't, you're back to price shopping and comparisons.

 

5 hours ago, wineoclock said:

I agree with this. Include tips as standard and say they cannot be removed! We generally tip a bit extra anyway and see it as a bonus for the staff. 

 

I think most of us (US included) agree with this. At one time I thought there were some tax advantages to the employees if they received part of their compensation in gratuities, but I don't believe that is actually the case. Interestingly in the US in 2015 Union Square Hospitality Group which operates a number restaurants in New York went to a "hospitality included" (no tips) model. They dropped that model in 2020 when restarting from the pandemic. Somewhat unique timing, but most reports I've seen are that in higher end restaurants in particular servers make more money from tips than they'd ever make in salary. And customers seem to like tipping. And some apparently tipped even when they weren't supposed to... 

 

5 hours ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

I think you would have to get the US Federal government involved to have tips, taxes and port fee put into the base price 

I think the cruise lines are scared people may just book the cheapest looking trip as people are unable to compare break down the price by themselves 

 

The US Department of Labor isn't really involved in labor rules for cruise ship employees; unless they're US citizens or permanent residents, they're "in transit", like air crew. Some airlines now show the total price of airfare (including taxes and fees) in their search engines, but they still break them out on the invoice. That seems to meet everyone's needs and requirements. Same with some hotel chains.

 

As you say, the historic concern seems to be that most searches, probably including TA search systems, return base fares. You have to dig into each cruise (hotel, airfare, etc.) to see if you're comparing like to like, and too many people just price shop. Pre-pandemic, and I'd argue with AI post-pandemic, Celebrity had carved out a segment where that shouldn't have been a concern; a lot of passengers were booking "Celebrity", not a cruise. They had a niche with very little competition. Then they blinked, and we're back to Celebrity competing with the herd in the mass market segment. A very red ocean in business strategy...

[the penguins]

5 minutes ago, zitsky said:

No pressure for extra tips?  So employees have stopped suggesting it?  That’s good to know.

 

It is rather heartless of me to only pay these people minimum wage.  They have families to support!

We have never felt any pressure to pay extra but, as I made clear, we do pay over for exceptional service.

Perhaps a good example of the problem/difficulty is the increase in Any Time/Select Dining.

We are fortunate that, due to mobility issues, X allows us to have the same table every night but over the 15 nights we can have around 60 different table companions. How to you or anyone else tip those waiters extra when you have different staff each night?

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, seanquirke said:

Hi all, 

 

We will never agree on this subject. For me I don't agree that any company let alone a multi billion pound corporation has the right to ask me to pay  Staff appreciation to help top up their wages. Why oh why do we even consider that this is acceptable behaviour. Why am I made to feel or even be told on this site that I am a bad person if I pay $6000 for a cruise in a basic balcony cabin and remove any staff appreciation. Why is that blame not clearly sent packing in the direction of the Corporation who employed  these staff. We all know they work hard. Well guess what. So do I in fact I have worked hard my whole life. A 12 hour day is nothing abnormal to me and never has been. I apply for the job and work hard at being recognised as someone they can not do without. I hit my targets and beyond and then I ask for a pay rise.

Its always perplexed me as to why we allow this to happen and why the USA allows fat cat corporations to get away with paying cents. Rather than the going rate with the opportunity to progress within the company. I assume the later does indeed present itself but you guys need to stop blaming the likes of me for removing this and yet say not a single word to the likes of Carnival or Royal Caribbean. Don't even get me going on the 18-20% gratuity added to each drink. What on this planet is that about. $10-15 for 1 glass of wine poured from a bottle I can buy in my own super market for $8 and then I'm given no choice but to pay a gratuity. 

 

 Before I  go. When I am in the US I get on the HOHO bus to discover this great new city I find myself in. There's never any earphones. But there is a guide who has self taught themselves everything about the route we are taking. This person constantly reminds me that they don't get paid by the bus company and proceeds to get off at every stop again reminding me that he gets no wages from the bus company that have invested in jack points and software that will deliver in detail and 6 different languages, everything I need to know. and they & the driver will share these very much appreciated tips. So yes I tip because I'm British and feel embarrassed to walk past and ignore. Do I want to. NO. The same journey happens in Europe. The earphones are worn by all including our US friends and to date I have never witnessed one single person tipping that driver.  If I want to chat to my wife and enjoy the view in peace I take off my earphones We pay our fair we Hop on & Off as instructed and we are happy. The driver gets paid the going rate and they too are happy. 

 

That I am aware of. Not one single hotel in the whole of Europe asks that we pay a staff appreciation. certainly not one I have stayed at in my 60 years. 

 

Thanks 

One question

Why, as you are set against X’s, and most other cruise lines, pricing system, don’t you book with cruise lines where tipping is not required?

Or, if you do carry on booking with X, just be up front and admit that your decision not to tip directly reduces the take home pay of every crew member who is included in the “auto grats” system.

 

[PTC DAWG]

22 minutes ago, zitsky said:

The virtue signaling on this board amuses and irritates me at the same time.  So much posturing about who treats employees better or who deserves to cruise.

 

Which one of you goes to McDonald’s and tips the staff?  When’s the last time you tipped the attendant at the gas station who sold you a bottle of soda?  Do you tip the IRS when you file your taxes?

 

When I book a cruise and pay for gratuities BEFORE the cruise and pay gratuities on drinks DURING the cruise, do you then expect me to pay ADDITIONAL gratuities for every employee on board?  Seeing as I personally pay their salaries?

 

I tip people but I hope I don’t come across as being better than everyone else.

I see you doing the virtue signaling...most here only have issues with folks that want to totally remove the daily grats...I think that's a fair statement.  

 

McDonalds and the IRS have zero to do with this discussion.  Try and stay on point.  We are talking cruising, more to the point cruising on a Celebrity ship.  

Edited November 6, 2023 by PTC DAWG

[the penguins]

7 hours ago, lovetravel63-65 said:

Why do they not price gratuities into the fare and make it simple.P& O do in the U.K

Interesting.
Carnival own 2 cruise lines that “pretend” to be British:

P and O - prices in £ and tips included.

Cunard - prices in $ and tips extra.

The simple answer is that, with the exception of on P and O, most cruise passengers are American/Canadian and those are the markets where the cruise lines fight for business.

 

 

[zitsky]

7 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

I see you doing the virtue signaling...most here only have issues with folks that want to totally remove the daily grats...I think that's a fair statement.  

 

McDonalds and the IRS have zero to do with this discussion.  Try and stay on point.  We are talking cruising, more to the point cruising on a Celebrity ship.  

Yes I’m posturing when I say I tip but I don’t think that makes me better than everyone else.  I know what it’s like living hand to mouth.  I never thought that meant I deserved a tip from everyone.

 

Ok you want to talk about cruising.  Do you tip the engineer?  The people at Guest Services?  The entertainers in the theater?

[PTC DAWG]

14 minutes ago, zitsky said:

Yes I’m posturing when I say I tip but I don’t think that makes me better than everyone else.  I know what it’s like living hand to mouth.  I never thought that meant I deserved a tip from everyone.

 

Ok you want to talk about cruising.  Do you tip the engineer?  The people at Guest Services?  The entertainers in the theater?

I leave the auto grats in place...and add as I see fit in other areas.  Never made a big deal about it, and don't care if others don't add extra.  

 

I did give a fellow at guest services once a couple of bucks for finding me a razor and shaving cream early one morning...(he smiled and pocketed the cash with no issue at all) I had left mine in the shower the night before we embarked.  No stores were open etc on board.  I appreciated that.  Usually it's bartenders and room stewards that get extra from me.  

Edited November 6, 2023 by PTC DAWG

[buncosquad]

9 hours ago, keesar said:

 

Envelopes are still available at  Guest Services.  I have noticed that the lines at Guest Services were quite long on the last day to remove the tips. 

Shameful, if this was why a person was in that line.

Edited November 6, 2023 by buncosquad

[seanquirke]

52 minutes ago, the penguins said:

One question

Why, as you are set against X’s, and most other cruise lines, pricing system, don’t you book with cruise lines where tipping is not required?

Or, if you do carry on booking with X, just be up front and admit that your decision not to tip directly reduces the take home pay of every crew member who is included in the “auto grats” system.

 

To be honest I do try and book cruises that have tips included and I am happy to do this. I really don't want the staff to suffer via loss of earnings. But as I've already mentioned we most likely will never agree. I stand my ground and say. We should be paying a fare days pay for a fare days work. FYI I have never  said I remove the Tips. What I said was, I don't understand why I would be bad if I do, but the Corporation's are all Good for not paying their staff a real wage. 

[the penguins]

3 minutes ago, seanquirke said:

To be honest I do try and book cruises that have tips included and I am happy to do this. I really don't want the staff to suffer via loss of earnings. But as I've already mentioned we most likely will never agree. I stand my ground and say. We should be paying a fare days pay for a fare days work. FYI I have never  said I remove the Tips. What I said was, I don't understand why I would be bad if I do, but the Corporation's are all Good for not paying their staff a real wage. 

You said you guys should stop blaming the “likes of me for doing this” i.e. removing the tips”. Are you now saying that you actually don’t remove the tips?

With regard to telling X I have made it clear on numerous occasions that my preferred option is a base price that includes: the cruise, port fees, taxes and tips. Drinks and Wi-Fi packages available as extras 

 

[JeanieC,Aston]

3 hours ago, the penguins said:

One question

Why, as you are set against X’s, and most other cruise lines, pricing system, don’t you book with cruise lines where tipping is not required?

Or, if you do carry on booking with X, just be up front and admit that your decision not to tip directly reduces the take home pay of every crew member who is included in the “auto grats” system.

 

Hi

Just curious,,,,if nobody on the ship paid tips would the crew get nothing.

Surely they are on a contracted guaranteed’minimum wage’.

[zitsky]

1 hour ago, the penguins said:

You said you guys should stop blaming the “likes of me for doing this” i.e. removing the tips”. Are you now saying that you actually don’t remove the tips?

With regard to telling X I have made it clear on numerous occasions that my preferred option is a base price that includes: the cruise, port fees, taxes and tips. Drinks and Wi-Fi packages available as extras 

 

Not speaking for that poster.  But I see LOTS of comments on Cruise Critic that say IF you take off gratuities you should be forced to walk the plank.  Followed by sob stories of employees with 23 children.

 

@PTC DAWG is that a good enough cruise reference for you?

[PTC DAWG]

Not responding, I've made my views clear.  

[zitsky]

14 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Not responding, I've made my views clear.  

 

Uh, I think a response is a response.

 

Edit: I agree with whoever said, why aren't we asking the executives of Celebrity to pay their employees more?

Edited November 6, 2023 by zitsky

[PTC DAWG]

18 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

Uh, I think a response is a response.

 

Edit: I agree with whoever said, why aren't we asking the executives of Celebrity to pay their employees more?

Why not volunteer to pay more for your cruise, so they can do just that?  We could go round and round all day.  I'd rather be at the Sunset Bar having a nice beverage.  I think we are just both yanking chains at this point.  🙂

 

BTW, "not responding" is the standard response by many on a sports board I post on when someone has grown tired of the thread.  A very inside joke.  Now you know,  🙂

[ldubs]

12 hours ago, lovetravel63-65 said:

Why do they not price gratuities into the fare and make it simple.P& O do in the U.K

 

That seems to be the question.  I think there are marketing as well as financial accounting reasons.  Putting low fares on websites is a marketing strategy not unique to cruise lines.  Financial reporting and tax treatment would be different for gratuities vs revenues.  If the latter, our fares would likely go up compared to paying grats separately.   Could grats still be booked as grats if they were included in the listed fare and still an option?  I don't know.  I'm not an accountant by any stretch.  Just what I think are couple of reasons making the change isn't as simple as it might seem.  

 

Life would be simpler if the fare included everything.  On the other hand, we all know going in what the daily grat is, so it is kind of a wash in my mind.   

 

Kind of related, I wish our sales tax was included in the price tags for items we buy from our local businesses.  

[zitsky]

2 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

Why not volunteer to pay more for your cruise, so they can do just that?  We could go round and round all day.  I'd rather be at the Sunset Bar having a nice beverage.  I think we are just both yanking chains at this point.  🙂

 

BTW, "not responding" is the standard response by many on a sports board I post on when someone has grown tired of the thread.  A very inside joke.  Now you know,  🙂

If I pay $7,000 for a cruise for two in a veranda, how much more should I pay to satisfy you that I’m compensating the employees enough?  You asked the question.

 

Celebrity has my credit card number.  Why can’t they just charge me whatever the CFO wants me to pay for tips?

[kiwichick62]

 

I confirm that cruises booked from New Zealand have gratuities baked into the fare we pay.  Gratuities are added on to the cost of drink and dining packages.  I don't mind paying these and I like to have everything pre-paid before I cruise.  Once on board I do no further tipping.

[dylan400d]

Wow - I didn't expect this to generate so much discussion.

 

Just catching up on everything here. One of the primary reasons why I decided to ask this question was due to the inclusion of tips on top of the price. I noticed someone commented earlier and said in the UK we tip, but that's simply not universally true. While some restaurants may request a tip for larger groups, many do not.

 

During our last Celebrity cruise, everything was included, including tips. This seems preferable. There's a clear divide in the forum responses, with some suggesting it's right to leave the auto tips on, while others advise removing them. It's important to remember that this is a discussion board, and taking a stance like 'that's stingy' or 'shame on you' is simply your opinion about a situation you may not agree with. On the other hand, some are mentioning that they prefer to leave the auto tips on and then give extra to those they feel deserve it; again, it comes down to personal preference.

 

I also think one other clear difference in the UK is our taxation system. In the US, tax varies from state to state, while in the UK, we are subject to a standard 20% tax rate .It's worth considering these factors when determining what feels fair in terms of tipping practices. Ultimately, it's about finding a balance that works for both the guest and the cruise line and respecting individual preferences in this matter.