Balcony Hot Tubs on Viva

[gcoolie]

We are sailing on the Viva this Saturday. We received an email today about new protocol for the hot tub on the balcony. Seems to make it a lot less useful.

[Anoynmous Phoenix]

Is this the beginning of the end of ALL "hot" pools on NCL ships?   If one in a private room has to be dealt with in this way how do they manage to allow the continual use of the public ones?

[gcoolie]

That is exactly what I am wondering. If the issue is sanitation, wouldn't it be the same for all hot tubs including in the thermal spa?

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, gcoolie said:

That is exactly what I am wondering. If the issue is sanitation, wouldn't it be the same for all hot tubs including in the thermal spa?

No, "private" (single cabin) hot tubs have always been treated differently by the USPH than public ones.  The major difference is that public hot tubs are chlorinated, while private ones are not.  I do not see any recent changes to the CDC VSP Operations manual with regards to private hot tubs, but the regulations do mention that maintenance and operation must be in accordance with manufacturer's instructions.  Since Viva is a new ship, it is possible that a new hot tub supplier was used, and there may be instructions that mimic what NCL has stated as the necessary procedure.  It could also be a new procedure for all private hot tubs on cruise ships, that has not been codified into the VSP, but is being enforced by the USPH now.

[PATRLR]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

No, "private" (single cabin) hot tubs have always been treated differently by the USPH than public ones.  The major difference is that public hot tubs are chlorinated, while private ones are not.  

OK, this begs the question, why not chlorinate the private tubs?

[PATRLR]

I know that if I decided to book one of these rooms, my expectation would be that the hot tub is available to me 24x7 without any prior planning.  I'd be mighty disappointed to learn the access is as limited as they say.  I wonder what the draining process involves?  Does someone need to enter the cabin to do that (I assume they do).  Talk about a mood spoiler...

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, PATRLR said:

OK, this begs the question, why not chlorinate the private tubs?

There would have to be continuous monitoring equipment, connected to continuous dosing equipment, along with a storage area for chlorine and acid just like the public hot tubs, which would reduce the cabin size by about a closet's worth of space.

[Laszlo]

14 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

No, "private" (single cabin) hot tubs have always been treated differently by the USPH than public ones.  The major difference is that public hot tubs are chlorinated, while private ones are not.  I do not see any recent changes to the CDC VSP Operations manual with regards to private hot tubs, but the regulations do mention that maintenance and operation must be in accordance with manufacturer's instructions.  Since Viva is a new ship, it is possible that a new hot tub supplier was used, and there may be instructions that mimic what NCL has stated as the necessary procedure.  It could also be a new procedure for all private hot tubs on cruise ships, that has not been codified into the VSP, but is being enforced by the USPH now.

I agree, but honestly its not rocket science. You need to use X amount of chlorine for X amount of gallons, run a simple test strip to check. I can only assume the balcony tubs are so basic they don't have any type of automatic chlorine system. I would think it would be easy enough to have a tablets in a float... thats what I have in mine at home

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

I agree, but honestly its not rocket science. You need to use X amount of chlorine for X amount of gallons, run a simple test strip to check. I can only assume the balcony tubs are so basic they don't have any type of automatic chlorine system. I would think it would be easy enough to have a tablets in a float... thats what I have in mine at home

While what you have in your hot tub may be acceptable for you, I don't believe there is any state requirement for sanitation of home hot tubs, but what you describe is not acceptable to the USPH/CDC.  You are correct that the balcony hot tubs are not equipped with automated chlorination, which would require piping to a remote location where the chemicals would be stored for injection.

 

It's a lot like where "salt water" pools are acceptable on land, but that means of chlorination is not acceptable to USPH/CDC for cruise ship pools.

Edited November 29, 2023 by chengkp75

[Laszlo]

57 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While what you have in your hot tub may be acceptable for you, I don't believe there is any state requirement for sanitation of home hot tubs, but what you describe is not acceptable to the USPH/CDC.  You are correct that the balcony hot tubs are not equipped with automated chlorination, which would require piping to a remote location where the chemicals would be stored for injection.

 

It's a lot like where "salt water" pools are acceptable on land, but that means of chlorination is not acceptable to USPH/CDC for cruise ship pools.

Are the outdoors pools on the ship chlorinated? I was under the impression they were just filled and drained each day

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

Are the outdoors pools on the ship chlorinated? I was under the impression they were just filled and drained each day

Are you asking about pools or hot tubs?  Both are chlorinated.  Outdoor and indoor public hot tubs are required to be drained and refilled every 72 hours, but most are done daily.  The hot tubs are required to be chlorinated to between 3-10ppm, with an increase to 10ppm minimum for one hour every 24 hours (superchlorination).  The hot tubs have constantly recirculating water going to a filter, and this recirculated water is monitored continually and the chlorine and acid dose changed continually to maintain the proper pH and free chlorine levels.

 

All swimming pools, whether fresh water or salt water, must be chlorinated if in recirculation mode (which all pools must be within 12 miles of shore, and of course fresh water pools are always).  Again, the monitoring and dosing of acid and chlorine is done continually.  Pools are typically drained once a week.

[Laszlo]

33 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Are you asking about pools or hot tubs?  Both are chlorinated.  Outdoor and indoor public hot tubs are required to be drained and refilled every 72 hours, but most are done daily.  The hot tubs are required to be chlorinated to between 3-10ppm, with an increase to 10ppm minimum for one hour every 24 hours (superchlorination).  The hot tubs have constantly recirculating water going to a filter, and this recirculated water is monitored continually and the chlorine and acid dose changed continually to maintain the proper pH and free chlorine levels.

 

All swimming pools, whether fresh water or salt water, must be chlorinated if in recirculation mode (which all pools must be within 12 miles of shore, and of course fresh water pools are always).  Again, the monitoring and dosing of acid and chlorine is done continually.  Pools are typically drained once a week.

Thanks, not that I drink the pool water but I never noticed a hint of chlorine in any of the outdoor pools I've been in on NCL ships

[gcoolie]

17 hours ago, PATRLR said:

I know that if I decided to book one of these rooms, my expectation would be that the hot tub is available to me 24x7 without any prior planning.  I'd be mighty disappointed to learn the access is as limited as they say.  I wonder what the draining process involves?  Does someone need to enter the cabin to do that (I assume they do).  Talk about a mood spoiler...

Right? We wouldn't have bothered with this room knowing how it works. I guess this is new protocol. We probably won't use it at all. Call someone to fill it, 1 hour of hot water, and then have them come back to empty it. Nope.

[Spicer312]

Did anyone experience the “private” hot tubs on your balcony on the last couple December cruises? Are they up and running or still this one hour only deal that I read about …but was never confirmed.  Thanks for any info. 

[gcoolie]

19 minutes ago, Spicer312 said:

Did anyone experience the “private” hot tubs on your balcony on the last couple December cruises? Are they up and running or still this one hour only deal that I read about …but was never confirmed.  Thanks for any info. 

We had a hot tub the first week in December on the Viva. The real issue is they are not heated. It is a jetted tub but nothing to maintain the water temp. That’s the reason for the one hour. They don’t have to drain it right away. We tried it one night. Our room attendant said he could fill it whenever we wanted. We told him we’d like to use it after dinner. He filled it late afternoon. Then we went to dinner. When we came back, he was refilling it because he said it got cold. Well, he refilled it to 112 degrees (temp is displayed). We kept trying it and by the time we wanted to go to bed it had barely cooled off. I

couldn’t get in. My husband got in for a few seconds and felt burned. The attendant left it overnight. So he doesn’t have to drain it. It’s a heat issue imo, not for sanitation. 
 

It was not what we originally thought it would be. And the attendants doing the extra work apparently aren’t trained. It was dangerously hot and he timed it wrong. Nothing against him at all. 
It’s an additional duty and needed training. 
 

Maybe private hot tubs on other ships have heaters and can be left full. I have no idea. This situation didn’t work for us. I also think it’s dangerous. That was way too hot. They might be better off removing them. 

 

[Spicer312]

27 minutes ago, gcoolie said:

We had a hot tub the first week in December on the Viva. The real issue is they are not heated. It is a jetted tub but nothing to maintain the water temp. That’s the reason for the one hour. They don’t have to drain it right away. We tried it one night. Our room attendant said he could fill it whenever we wanted. We told him we’d like to use it after dinner. He filled it late afternoon. Then we went to dinner. When we came back, he was refilling it because he said it got cold. Well, he refilled it to 112 degrees (temp is displayed). We kept trying it and by the time we wanted to go to bed it had barely cooled off. I

couldn’t get in. My husband got in for a few seconds and felt burned. The attendant left it overnight. So he doesn’t have to drain it. It’s a heat issue imo, not for sanitation. 
 

It was not what we originally thought it would be. And the attendants doing the extra work apparently aren’t trained. It was dangerously hot and he timed it wrong. Nothing against him at all. 
It’s an additional duty and needed training. 
 

Maybe private hot tubs on other ships have heaters and can be left full. I have no idea. This situation didn’t work for us. I also think it’s dangerous. That was way too hot. They might be better off removing them. 

 

Thanks for the info, at least it’s worth a try, and glad it’s running and not totally off limits.  But, 112 is HOT: even if you could get it to 105, I could live with that, our home tub is usually 100-105 in the winter, however.  We sail in a couple weeks hopefully it will keep improving!  Thanks. 

[gcoolie]

2 minutes ago, Spicer312 said:

Thanks for the info, at least it’s worth a try, and glad it’s running and not totally off limits.  But, 112 is HOT: even if you could get it to 105, I could live with that, our home tub is usually 100-105 in the winter, however.  We sail in a couple weeks hopefully it will keep improving!  Thanks. 

Maybe you could specify the temp you like. And if you use it in the evening, I am guessing they will leave it until morning. Not sure if that was just our guy or if the procedure is usually just a little more lax than they stated. 

 

Good luck and have a great cruise!

[Sailing12Away]

The biggest problem is that NCL is not telling people who book these rooms about the 'rules' for the hot tub until it is too late to change your mind and book a different cabin. We were on Prima in September and booked that cabin specifically so we could as a family use the private hot tub sailing around Iceland at night. Were told less than a week before sailing that we couldn't use it at all.

 

Folks are paying premium prices (double 'normal' Haven pricing in our case) expecting to get a feature that they're not getting, and the compensation is laughable. NCL gave us a total of 1K in non-refundable OBC to use on that sailing. I asked them to change it to a FCC instead and they refused. 

 

All they need to do is at the time of booking one of those rooms - put in a pop up message stating the same facts as in the letter saying there is a potential this rule will still be in effect for their sailing. If folks still want to proceed - at least they knew. Other folks like myself won't take that chance at that pricing and will book a different cabin.

 

Just curious - anyone sail in the 3br garden villa recently? Those have private hot tubs and we never had any special rules to adhere to when we've stayed in those previously. So curious if it's only the ones on Prima/Viva that have this new "issue".

[Captain-John]

Why not just operate it like a bathtub - except outdoors? A hot tap, a cold tap, some jets and a drain. Then you can fill it yourself, soak to your heart's content, drain when you are done, top up from the hot tap if it gets cool... The current situation seems massively overcomplicated.

 

There are jetted tubs in the staterooms that don't require a call in advance for someone else to fill it, what's different about the placement on the balcony?

Edited December 31, 2023 by Captain-John

[BirdTravels]

First, no one is going to book a room because of a hot tub on the balcony and cancel if there is not one there. It is just an extra feature of the room. 
 

The ships had a hot tub design, which they have used a similar design before on smaller ships. But it got caught up in some health inspection finding. They have a temporary workaround, should you want to use it. People are being given a generous compensation for nothing a feature of the room. 

[SailorJoe22]

This was a cool read. Got some good tips for future bookings and learned a couple of things too.

[Spicer312]

2 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

First, no one is going to book a room because of a hot tub on the balcony and cancel if there is not one there. It is just an extra feature of the room. 
 

The ships had a hot tub design, which they have used a similar design before on smaller ships. But it got caught up in some health inspection finding. They have a temporary workaround, should you want to use it. People are being given a generous compensation for nothing a feature of the room. 

Umm I did specifically book this room and paid extra for the hot tub.  If I would’ve known it was not going to work, I would’ve booked another room (a very spacious room) and still  saved ….probably 5k. So yes, some do book these rooms for the hot tub as there are many other great rooms for much less. I’m still hopeful that we will be able to use it and will post when we return. 

[PATRLR]

2 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

First, no one is going to book a room because of a hot tub on the balcony and cancel if there is not one there.

If I paid extra for a feature, hot tub or otherwise, and then found out the feature I was paying extra for wasn't going to be included in what I paid for, I know I would cancel and book something didn't include the feature. 

I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't cancel and rebook something that didn't include the feature they were paying extra for.

[sansroof]

2 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

First, no one is going to book a room because of a hot tub on the balcony and cancel if there is not one there. It is just an extra feature of the room. 
 

The ships had a hot tub design, which they have used a similar design before on smaller ships. But it got caught up in some health inspection finding. They have a temporary workaround, should you want to use it. People are being given a generous compensation for nothing a feature of the room. 

Why are you so condescending to everyone? 

[PATRLR]

9 minutes ago, sansroof said:

Why are you so condescending to everyone? 

It's not everyone, in my observation.  What I have observed is the condescension is typically just directed to people who criticize NCL.