Tipping....yes, again

[Elaine5715]

On 12/5/2023 at 3:33 PM, kirtihk said:

I've never understood tipping (I moved to US from Europe in 1991).  To me transparency is what's lacking.  Tips, gratuities, service charges, or however else it might be called these days should be a part of the total invoice/bill; then everyone would be happy (people like us wouldn't be bothered to think about tipping, and those who love it would be pleased to see that it's there, in their bill, as a line item, as port charge, tax, and/or whatever any other fee it might be like dozens of those fees attached to phone bills or air ticket's purchases).

Tipping costs are quite clear.  Some people believe that the crew won't know if they don't tip and they won't see them again

[kirtihk]

34 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Tipping costs are quite clear.  Some people believe that the crew won't know if they don't tip and they won't see them again

Even though it has a valid point, this topic is not related to a measure of mine.  Nevertheless, I enjoy pluralism.

[cruiserbrianj]

Possibly an unpopular opinion on here, but I/my family tip as we would on land and that's for those are are directly serving us. We do remove the auto gratuities and then tip accordingly. Room stewards get more. Sometimes the bar service folks get more (than the auto 18%). When we dine in the MDR, steakhouse or other specialty restaurants, they get more. If others behind the scenes don't get something, I'd argue that their salary should be more and it's not up to me to supplement that. I tip as I do in the US and that's for those that are directly servicing us. If they (cruise lines) decide to include it in the price, then fine, but until then...I'll tip as I normally do.

[BlerkOne]

30 minutes ago, cruiserbrianj said:

Possibly an unpopular opinion on here, but I/my family tip as we would on land and that's for those are are directly 

 

Tips on land and generally a percentage of the check. Do you tip 15% or more of the cost of your cruise?

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, cruiserbrianj said:

Possibly an unpopular opinion on here, but I/my family tip as we would on land and that's for those are are directly serving us. We do remove the auto gratuities and then tip accordingly. Room stewards get more. Sometimes the bar service folks get more (than the auto 18%). When we dine in the MDR, steakhouse or other specialty restaurants, they get more. If others behind the scenes don't get something, I'd argue that their salary should be more and it's not up to me to supplement that. I tip as I do in the US and that's for those that are directly servicing us. If they (cruise lines) decide to include it in the price, then fine, but until then...I'll tip as I normally do.

Are you aware that since you removed the auto tips, that all cash tips received by your room attendants and dining team must be turned in?  They then receive the same allocation under their contract.  Only when the autotips are in place, do they keep the extra.  The failure here is you aren't tipping all those who "serve' you.  Do you leave cash in each public bathroom?  Do you tip the omelet chef?  All three members of each meal dining team?  Leave cash on the table for the buffet?  Guy's Burgers? The deli?  Tea Time? Towel hut?  Both room attendants?  Pool attendants?  Water slide?  Ropes course?  Bolt?  Laundry crew who do guest laundry? Sheets, towel laundry?  The crew that pick up hallway food plates?  Bar backs?  The crew who put your luggage outside your door?  The crew that picked up your luggage for debark? (FYI-aka dining team members).  When you do tipping at MDR, you calculate the cost of the meal, and leave 20% each meal?  

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, kirtihk said:

Even though it has a valid point, this topic is not related to a measure of mine.  Nevertheless, I enjoy pluralism.

Your point was transparency.  My response was clear.    

[ldubs]

On 12/5/2023 at 12:20 PM, mz-s said:

 

I used to think that gratuities were good and should remain, but over the years my opinion has shifted. I think that gratuities and tips should be gone across the board across all aspects of life. I know a lot of people share that opinion and very few people love tipping and would be truly sad if tipping went away, so I don't see why the culture can't shift in relatively short order. It's obviously bigger than you or me but it really seems like we're hitting a tipping point, pardon the pun.

 

My opinion has shifted too, similar to yours.  But we continue to live in a culture where tipping is expected.   I would not want the workers who currently rely on tips to bear the fall-out from that shift to non-tipping.  Same for cruise gratuities.   

[mz-s]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

My opinion has shifted too, similar to yours.  But we continue to live in a culture where tipping is expected.   I would not want the workers who currently rely on tips to bear the fall-out from that shift to non-tipping.  Same for cruise gratuities.   

I’m no longer an over tipper. I tip the agreed upon amounts when out to eat etc, and when it’s automatically added to the bill I don’t add more. I no longer buy into the emotional blackmail. 

[kirtihk]

10 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Your point was transparency.  My response was clear.    

Yes, clear but not related

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, kirtihk said:

Yes, clear but not related

That is how conversations work.  

[kirtihk]

13 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

That is how conversations work.  

In that case - even though the majority doesn't care, we love to pay extra for sauna/steam-room (like, for example, the Thermal Suite on Norwegian, the Persian Garden thermal suite and SEA Thermal Suite on Celebrity Edge class or ) - the best part of cruising for us!

Edited December 7, 2023 by kirtihk

[ldubs]

9 hours ago, mz-s said:

I’m no longer an over tipper. I tip the agreed upon amounts when out to eat etc, and when it’s automatically added to the bill I don’t add more. I no longer buy into the emotional blackmail. 

 

I never felt blackmailed.  I never feel embarrassment or remorse if I justifiably refused a tip or say no the 18% tip option for counter service.  I just think it has expanded beyond reason. The spare change tip jar on the counter has turned into an expectation of an 18% tip.   I am getting kind of tired of it.   That said, I don't look for excuses to pull the gratuities on a cruise ship.  So far, nothing has even come close enough to justify my doing that. 

[cruizinisthebest]

16 hours ago, cruiserbrianj said:

Possibly an unpopular opinion on here, but I/my family tip as we would on land and that's for those are are directly serving us. We do remove the auto gratuities and then tip accordingly. Room stewards get more. Sometimes the bar service folks get more (than the auto 18%). When we dine in the MDR, steakhouse or other specialty restaurants, they get more. If others behind the scenes don't get something, I'd argue that their salary should be more and it's not up to me to supplement that. I tip as I do in the US and that's for those that are directly servicing us. If they (cruise lines) decide to include it in the price, then fine, but until then...I'll tip as I normally do.

With the last gratuity increase, that's what we started doing. We travel as a family, and I am no longer playing the auto gratuity game. We used to pre-pay then tip additional. It adds up. All of that is out now. I tip who I want. I can't afford to tip every single crew member working onboard, which is the case many make for paying the suggested amount. I have no problem with tipping but as I wish to who I wish, which is the way it should be. And that's the way it's going to be for us unless or until they add it in the price of the cruise. And I'll only do it then simply because I won't stop cruising so I'll have no choice. 

 

Whether cash tips are pooled or whatever the case, that is not my concern. I tip, say please and thank you, and enjoy my cruise. Period. 

[carohs]

What so interesting about these tip discussions is how much people's perception of the cost and value differs from person to person. Personally I see the suggested gratuities as part of the cost of my cruise. The people who work on the ship work way longer days than I would be willing to whether front of house (customer facing) or behind the scenes. However their contracts and salaries are handled are between them and their employer. How much they make will be impacted whether the tips go directly to the employees or indirectly via the cruise line's bottom line. And seeing as how room servers are cleaning up 2x the plates, stewards making up 2x beds, etc by having my kids on board with me, it doesn't bother me that the suggested gratuities are per person and not per stateroom. 

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, carohs said:

What so interesting about these tip discussions is how much people's perception of the cost and value differs from person to person. Personally I see the suggested gratuities as part of the cost of my cruise.

The cruise line suggests gratuities because some never run out of excuses for tipping or how much to tip.

[hapytobehr]

On 12/3/2023 at 10:26 AM, jiggs said:

maybe I'm in the minority, but I just add them to the cruise fare when booking and consider it part of the expense of the trip.  I have to fly to my embarkation point so when I think of flights, meals, hotel, transportation, the cruise, excursions, and everything else it seems worrying about reducing tips is a stretch.  Yes service is not what it once was, but I can say that about so many things in the hospitality industry.  Not sure punishing those in the lowest ranks is the answer.

THIS!!!

[aborgman]

11 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The cruise line suggests gratuities because some never run out of excuses for tipping or how much to tip.

 

The cruise lines suggest "gratuities" because they want to advertise artificially lower prices to do better against their competition.

 

 

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

The cruise lines suggest "gratuities" because they want to advertise artificially lower prices to do better against their competition.

 

 

The competition does the same. It would be a disadvantage for Carnival to not follow suit. As Carnival is the Walmart of the Seas, of course they undercut Royal on suggested gratuities.

[kirtihk]

25 minutes ago, hapytobehr said:

THIS!!!

The question that I've been asking and didn't get a proper answer yet: what's the difference in service between $20 versus $80 dishes or between $40 versus $300 wine bottle?  There is none.  However, there is a huge difference in an absolute value of 20% gratuities (or whatever one might call it). Why?

[aborgman]

33 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The competition does the same.

 

Absolutely - and for the exact same reason.

 

It has nothing to with corporate being worried about people having excuses for not tipping or not knowing how much to tip.

[BlerkOne]

21 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

The question that I've been asking and didn't get a proper answer yet: what's the difference in service between $20 versus $80 dishes or between $40 versus $300 wine bottle?  There is none.  However, there is a huge difference in an absolute value of 20% gratuities (or whatever one might call it). Why?

If it makes you feel better, think of it as a commission.

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Absolutely - and for the exact same reason.

 

It has nothing to with corporate being worried about people having excuses for not tipping or not knowing how much to tip.

That reason being gratuities have forever have been part of the compensation for many cruise line staff.

 

It absolutely has to to with people tipping at least a recommended minimum amount.

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, cruizinisthebest said:

With the last gratuity increase, that's what we started doing. We travel as a family, and I am no longer playing the auto gratuity game. We used to pre-pay then tip additional. It adds up. All of that is out now. I tip who I want. I can't afford to tip every single crew member working onboard, which is the case many make for paying the suggested amount. I have no problem with tipping but as I wish to who I wish, which is the way it should be. And that's the way it's going to be for us unless or until they add it in the price of the cruise. And I'll only do it then simply because I won't stop cruising so I'll have no choice. 

 

Whether cash tips are pooled or whatever the case, that is not my concern. I tip, say please and thank you, and enjoy my cruise. Period. 

If the suggested gratuities amounts are too high at $16 per day person...  divided between a minimum of 2 cabin attendants and 6 dining room (because there would be no reason to eat more than two meals) team members, works out to $2 average per person

[cruizinisthebest]

14 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

If the suggested gratuities amounts are too high at $16 per day person...  divided between a minimum of 2 cabin attendants and 6 dining room (because there would be no reason to eat more than two meals) team members, works out to $2 average per person

 I would rather give one person $10 than 5, $2 each. I'm tipping how I choose and doing so directly. That's the way I prefer it. In an effort to tip what I saw was a more deserving amount, I would always supplement the auto gratuity. No more of that. At least not for us. 

[dlphn501]

19 hours ago, cruiserbrianj said:

Possibly an unpopular opinion on here, but I/my family tip as we would on land and that's for those are are directly serving us. We do remove the auto gratuities and then tip accordingly. Room stewards get more. Sometimes the bar service folks get more (than the auto 18%). When we dine in the MDR, steakhouse or other specialty restaurants, they get more. If others behind the scenes don't get something, I'd argue that their salary should be more and it's not up to me to supplement that. I tip as I do in the US and that's for those that are directly servicing us. If they (cruise lines) decide to include it in the price, then fine, but until then...I'll tip as I normally do.

If people keep removing auto-gratuities, the cruise lines just may change things to include in the price.  Some restaurants already add 18-20% (maybe more in some places) gratuity to your bill if you have more than 6 people at your table.  Some do it automatically just because.

I am not saying you are wrong to remove them - you do you and what you feel is best for you and your cruising companions.  I'm just saying it can change.

Your servers may get tipped more than my servers.  I do pay the auto gratuities, and on my next upcoming cruise my TA had a promotion where they paid it.  So no need for me to remove them.  But ... I do tip extra as I see fit.  Always at the bar.  Sometimes for the MDR.  And the cabin attendant if s/he did more than the minimum (like bring me a bucket or 2 of ice everyday).