Troy, Pompeii, Mycenae, Epidaurus - how demanding is "demanding?"

[carolinetodd]

We are going to be on the Iconic Mediterranean Treasures cruise this month, and I'm hoping some of you with actual knowledge of the Viking excursions can weigh in on what gives them a rating of "demanding" vs. "moderate."  For example, the included tour of Troy, with free time in Çanakkale, is listed as demanding, while a paid tour of Troy plus a museum visit is listed as moderate.  I walk with a stick, and accept that I may need to drop out of guided portions of excursions to avoid slowing down the group, but don't want to be stuck where the bus stops in a parking lot and there's a stiff climb to get anywhere near the ruins or whatever.  Any insight would help me get the most out of our port stops while avoiding being a nuissance.

[HUNKY]

Disclaimer - I've only been on one Viking Ocean cruise, Iceland & Norway.

 

Looking over my notes the difference between moderate and demanding seems to be that the demanding tours involve REQUIRED walking/hiking and/or traversing over VERY uneven terrain, for lengthy periods.  In addition, these were often tours involving kayaking, RIB boats, or the like.  You could not leave the group.

 

The moderate tours had breaks between walks and often places to sit for a moment.  There were instances where you could go off by yourself, and meet the tour later.

[pavementends]

I have been on some Viking tours around Greece.

 

Based on my experience, anything  that requires a few steps upstairs gets many cautions from Viking. Even a few steps downstairs.

 

 

 

[CDR2001]

We did Empires of Mediterranean a few months ago, with extra days in Athens. Yes, many of the ruins tours are demanding in that they require hiking uphill for the full experience. However, views from below are good and the guide did most of the talking before climbing up. Here’s a view from top of Mycenaean ruins. Note the buses below. 

Edited January 3 by CDR2001

[OneSixtyToOne]

We were on Journey to Antiquity and Mediterranean Odyssey last year. Demanding typically involves lots of walking,  uneven footing, and or stairs / elevation changes.

Walking the walls of Dubrovnik required climbing an initial killer staircase but the rest of the tour was moderate.

 

 

Meanwhile Pompeii is flat but has a lot of uneven stones and steps.

 

 

Ephesus is mostly flat / uneven but the tour of the Roman houses requires climbing modern staircases erected within the ruins.

 

Edited January 3 by OneSixtyToOne

[longterm]

We were on the Rome, Adriatic, and Greece excursion in 2021, and did the extension in Athens that took us to Mycenae and Delphi, in addition to having visited Pompeii as well.

 

Mycenae - one of our favorite places to visit; you can stay down low and it's not going to be too demanding, although as with any Greek antiquity site, there's some walking involved if you want to see it. The path into the ruins winds up a hillside; although it was late March when we were there, snow started falling and it got really cold up there, so I didn't go all the way to the top, but I don't remember the steps being that treacherous. The path is wide and I seem to recall that it wasn't hard to traverse, but definitely not for someone who needs a walker or is hesitant to leave flat ground.

 

Pompeii - as someone mentioned, the ground is flat, but like most Italian sites, the roads are rough and definitely need one's attention while walking. It ranks as one of the highlights of our trip (there were many), and I wouldn't discourage anyone from visiting it--it's an amazing place to visit. Again, you can choose to see as little of it as you can handle, and at least get the sense of it without having to walk all of it.

 

There are other places we stopped where certain spots weren't suitable for everyone; the most notable would be walking the wall around the old city in Dubrovnik; although I'm scared of heights, I'm proud to say I walked the entire perimeter with our group, and it was a fantastic experience. Tons of steps though (more than 1000, if I recall), so not for everyone.

 

But, there's a lot to enjoy in Dubrovnik without walking the wall. We did a Rick Steves tour in France, and one of our group was a man who was 85; when I met him, I was certain he wouldn't be able to keep up, but he surprised us all, walking with us for miles each day and appeared to enjoy the tour as much as we did. 

 

The Mediterranean and Adriatic are some of my favorite parts of the world, and we would love to go back. We've been on excursions with lots of folks who walk with a stick, so it's one of those decisions you'll just have to make--but don't worry about slowing people down. If you were on an excursion with us, we'd be glad to walk with you. 🙂

[EchoIsland]

We recently returned from Cities of Antiquity and the Holy Land.  We took Viking's optional tour of Pompeii.  I would say this tour is correctly rated as Demanding.  There are a number of inclines and many downhill stairs at the end of the tour.  Lots of well-worn cobblestones/flat stones which could be very slippery in inclement weather.  There were two women with walking sticks on our tour that were unable to keep up, although our Guide kept a slower pace.  

[Peregrina651]

7 hours ago, OneSixtyToOne said:

Ephesus is mostly flat / uneven but the tour of the Roman houses requires climbing modern staircases erected within the ruins.

 

Based on your pictures, I think we might have to revisit Ephesus. We were there in 1999 and I don't remember being able to go into the houses.

[OneSixtyToOne]

6 minutes ago, Peregrina651 said:

 

Based on your pictures, I think we might have to revisit Ephesus. We were there in 1999 and I don't remember being able to go into the houses.

They are some of the best preserved Roman homes in the world. Viking offers two optional excursions of Ephesus. The one that includes the home tour has an additional cost to cover admission. It’s well worth it. 

 

 

 

 

[Azulann]

Yes,  seeing the terraces houses  was spectacular as part of our tour many ears ago.  It was a working archaeology site when I was last there. On my upcoming cruise in 2026 , I plan to go to the museum of the artifacts  recovered from the Ephesus site. The second time I was there the museum was closed for two years for renovations. It is located in a town nearby. 

Thank you for the pictures!

 

Edited January 4 by Azulann

[carolinetodd]

Thanks, everyone.  I'm feeling hopeful about at least getting to experience parts of each site.  I'll miss out the terrace houses at Ephesus - although the interior stairs are gradual, apparently the exit is single run of outside steps, and I find stairs, and inclines, too, much harder going down than coming up.  Loved seeing the pictures!

[Ranger Mom]

I was in Ephesus last January with Viking and one thing I had not anticipated was because it chilly in the morning, the ground was a little slippery as it warmed up. And while Ephesus is generally flat, there is a downward slope as you move to the library. Going in January, there were very few people there which made the experience even more spectacular. I'd go back in a heart beat. Enjoy!

[philw1776]

Did not know that these homes were now available. Ephesus along with Pompeii is a top favorite for me. Gotta go again. Will bring along lots of left over salmon from breakfast. Those who've been there know why.

Watch out for any tours that end at rug merchants. Do not enter the building.

Edited January 6 by philw1776

[Cienfuegos]

On our trip to Ephesus, the buses left folks at the upper end of the site, so there was a gradual downward path.  Modern steps up to the terrace houses, and stairs with railings within.  I thought the overall layout was very considerate of walkers and folks with some limitations. The "moderate" was reasonable.

 

The buses waited at a lower lot / parking area, just past the gift shop...

 

On our Viking Cuba trip, there was a distinct effort by the several guides to get the tours done quickly, and get us into the gift shops. Where there was plenty of time to browse. Several people asked one guide to SLOW DOWN on her walking speed. Although this tour was listed as "moderate", I worked up a good sweat.

[longterm]

4 hours ago, philw1776 said:

Watch out for any tours that end at rug merchants. Do not enter the building.

I wish I'd read that before we went for a stroll through Kotor!

 

Although, I have to admit, the rug we brought home is beautiful and we've not regretted it (although we probably paid more than it's worth).

 

It was a funny; the guy in the first store said, "Let me introduce you to my brother!" (brother owned the rug store). Then, because we needed a cheap suitcase to get it home, he said, "My cousin owns a store down the street." So we go there to buy a cheap suitcase, and of course my wife found a jacket she loved as well... 

You don't suppose they saw us coming, do you? 🙂

[Frenchberet]

5 hours ago, philw1776 said:

Did not know that these homes were now available. Ephesus along with Pompeii is a top favorite for me. Gotta go again. Will bring along lots of left over salmon from breakfast. Those who've been there know why.

Watch out for any tours that end at rug merchants. Do not enter the building.

We will be traveling there soon… I give up, why did you bring the salmon?  Snack or did you need it to feed something?  

[OneSixtyToOne]

7 hours ago, longterm said:

I wish I'd read that before we went for a stroll through Kotor!

 

Although, I have to admit, the rug we brought home is beautiful and we've not regretted it (although we probably paid more than it's worth).

 

It was a funny; the guy in the first store said, "Let me introduce you to my brother!" (brother owned the rug store). Then, because we needed a cheap suitcase to get it home, he said, "My cousin owns a store down the street." So we go there to buy a cheap suitcase, and of course my wife found a jacket she loved as well... 

You don't suppose they saw us coming, do you? 🙂

The rug stores after the Ephesus tour that Viking takes you to are run by the government. The price includes delivery to your home. 
We bought a beautiful runner that was delivered in about 6 weeks.

 

 

Edited January 7 by OneSixtyToOne

[Azulann]

7 hours ago, OneSixtyToOne said:

The rug stores after the Ephesus tour that Viking takes you to are run by the government. The price includes delivery to your home. 
We bought a beautiful runner that was delivered in about 6 weeks.

 

 

 

Your rug is beautiful! I have a similar color / patterned rug  hand made, I bought in the  Grand Bazaar in Istanbul in 2011. I  was told it was a tribal Turkistan rug with symbolic designs  of nature. it is cotton and wool. The most expensive rugs are silk. They folded the 6x4 rug for me and delivered it to my hotel and I brought it home as  a carry on.  I could also have had it shipped , but decided to save the money. I also bought a pair of silk embroidered pillow covers in a shop in Kusadasi.

will be back to Ephesus in 2026 on Viking cruise and will be looking for new pillow covers.  

Did you get a cup of mint tea  while looking at tugs? I do not mind going to these places if interested in rugs .   

 

[philw1776]

14 hours ago, Frenchberet said:

We will be traveling there soon… I give up, why did you bring the salmon?  Snack or did you need it to feed something?  

[OneSixtyToOne]

1 hour ago, Azulann said:

Your rug is beautiful! I have a similar color / patterned rug  hand made, I bought in the  Grand Bazaar in Istanbul in 2011. I  was told it was a tribal Turkistan rug with symbolic designs  of nature. it is cotton and wool. The most expensive rugs are silk. They folded the 6x4 rug for me and delivered it to my hotel and I brought it home as  a carry on.  I could also have had it shipped , but decided to save the money. I also bought a pair of silk embroidered pillow covers in a shop in Kusadasi.

will be back to Ephesus in 2026 on Viking cruise and will be looking for new pillow covers.  

Did you get a cup of mint tea  while looking at tugs? I do not mind going to these places if interested in rugs .   

 

Yes, we had a refreshment and a snack while looking at the rugs being tossed about. The Turkish government subsidizes the rug weaving to keep the tradition (and commerce) alive and the weavers attend a local school to learn the skill. The weaving and the silk production demonstrations were great. The wool rugs are all natural dyes, the weaving is a double knot technique, and the designs are Kurdish tribal. 

BTW when you purchase a rug they have you sign the back to ensure at delivery it it the one you bought.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7 by OneSixtyToOne

[OneSixtyToOne]

1 hour ago, philw1776 said:

Yes indeed

[carolinetodd]

Does anyone have any input regarding Troy and Epidaurus?

[auntieS]

Did Ancient Med Treasures with Classic Greece extension in Oct.  You walk on mostly wooden walkways around ruins at Troy, some with several stairs to get up to the walkway (I think there was a wooden lookout with alot of stairs but I didn't do that).  Our group had a lady using a rollator, but still able to walk/climb stairs on her own--her husband and my sister carried her rollator up and down while she took the stairs herself, then used her rollator on the walkways.  If you can manage ~4-12 stairs (with guardrails), albeit slowly, then you should be able to do this tour.  Remember, you will have Whisper sound system, so you can still hear your guide even if you're a bit behind.  Mycenae had mostly concrete mildly winding/rolling walkways around the ruins.  Our guide finished her talk at the largish open space and then we had some free time to explore the rest of the ruins, so you can decide how far you want to venture before heading back to the bus.  I can't remember the walk from bus to theater at Epidaurus, but once there, you can just stay at ground level to view the theater around you.  "Demanding" in this case mainly refers to if you want to climb (stone stairs) up into the theater.  There is a mezzanine level so you can go half way and walk around; all the way to the top; or just a few rows up and rest on the stone seats, your choice!  Bon Voyage!

[OneSixtyToOne]

Theater at Epidaurus

 

[carolinetodd]

I wanted to circle back and report some of my experiences with these sites.  First, most of the tour buses have very steep steps - more challenging than some of the actual tours, as I have difficulty lifting my left foot high enough.

 

Troy was wonderful, and although there was a fair distance to cover, and quite a lot of stairs, the steps were a reasonable height, uniform, and all had hand rails. It was tiring, but doable, and completely worth it.

 

We were lucky to have a completely dry day for Ephesus. Some of the people in our group found it difficult immediately and went back to the bus.  Others probably should have.  The uneven downhill paths were not really suitable for rolling walkers, and people using those needed a lot of help from their companions.  I relied a great deal on my husband's steady arm.  One man who walked with a cane was on his own - his wife had been one who went back to the bus at the start - and slipped, fell, and hit his head, and had to be taken away in an ambulance.  I think if it had been wet, I wouldn't have been able to manage.  As it was, I feel like I didn't see as much as I wanted to because I had to mind my feet so carefully.  Everything I did see was amazing.  Amazing.

 

For Epidaurus and Mycenae, it was cold, with heavy rain mixed with a little snow, and strong winds.  There were "just two or three steps" down to the museum at Epidaurus (then 2 or 3 more, and 2 or 3 more) but they were rather high, irregular but slippery stones with no hand rail.  The path up to the ruins was awkward and I  wimped out.  The dirt path down to the WC was too difficult for a woman with a rolling walker. At Mycenae, the stone ramp down to the museum was too steep and slippery for me, given the weather.  I was so disheartened I failed to see that the path to the actual theater was much more manageable and went back to the bus.  This was a failure on the part of our guide (okay, and me) more than an issue with the accessibility of the site. 

 

At the Acropolis, there were long stair-free detours to get to the entrance, where the restrooms had very low toilets that I would not have been able to get up from if I  had sat on them (plus no seats, so really required hovering) and the handicapped stalls were kept locked.  Once through the entrance, there are golf carts to take you to the elevator.  You need the permission of the gate agent to use it, and although my stick was apparently good enough evidence of need, the two asthmatic women with me were a harder sell.  On top, everything is easy to access, except the toilets, which are down a fairly long, steep ramp.  I don't know if those were any more usable once you got down there.  WCs aside, everything was quite accessible, and so worth seeing.  XOX from Saturn.