OCEANIA HELL: A reason to use another cruise line.

[PhD-iva]

13 minutes ago, TRLD said:

He said he tried to pay it to the portuguese AF and the wired funds were returned to his account without any additional information. 

I guess I missed that post. Thx.

[TRLD]

3 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

It is all very convoluted.  I don't understand why because it was sent directly to the OP, but Oceania has paid the PAF invoice.  If that is the case, what loss has the OP actually experienced?   Until they get an invoice for reimbursement from Oceania, they have nothing to support the financial loss.  That is what the insurer needs.   

Apparently Oceania has invoiced him and stated that they paid the bill themselves.

 

Pretty normal process.  The hang up  is apparently that his insurance will not accept the Oceania invoice an statement without an additional layer of documentation from Oceania indicating that they paid the bill.

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, PhD-iva said:

I disagree. The OP has received an invoice directly from the PAF, and the OP states they are responsible for these charges. ‘Nuf said.

 

Be that as it may, the OP has submitted the invoice to his carrier and they say the charges have been paid by "O".  And, according to the OP, the insurer will reimburse "O" when proper documentation is provided.  Sounds like this is between "O" and the insurer at this point.      

[TRLD]

5 minutes ago, PhD-iva said:

I guess I missed that post. Thx.

As far as I can tell Oceania is following a fairly standard process where they pay the bill and  then charge then invoice the customer.  In the case of my friends they sent the cruise line invoice to their insurance company, as well as the original invoice from the company doing the evacuation and that was sufficient for their insurance company.

 

Not sure why the OPs insurance company is requiring an additional level of documentation. Especially since he tried to pay and had his payment returned which would seem to indicate someone has paid the bill.  He might be able to go through the Portuguese SAR and Rescue administrative  unit to get confirmation.

 

I must admit that having retired from the health care industry and know several hospital administrators I tend to be rather prejudice against the Medicare advantage plans that the ways they go about denying payment without a lot of hurdles being jumped through.  A number of small hospitals are failing because of the numbers of medical bills being denied for farily flimsy reasons.

Edited January 15 by TRLD

[Flatbush Flyer]

23 minutes ago, PhD-iva said:

As Vallesan has also posted, you have an invoice (from the PAF) that you are responsible to pay. This should be sufficient documentation for your insurance claim (perhaps you have to first pay the invoice).
If Oceania also paid some monies, they will have to chase down their own refund - you will have settled the bill directly. If Oceania later tries to collect from you, you will be able to document that the bill has been paid (directly to PAF), and they’ll have to chase down their own refund.

I hope this helps.

OP has said s/he has wired “test money” to the PAF that has been returned without explanation. That there has been no other contact from the PAF nor provision of contact info et al., is VERY strange and suggests there are significant missing pieces to this story.

Hopefully OP is adept at summarizing evidence to make points that get results. In a separate post, I have asked OP to identify the perceived individual culprits interacted with and to prepare the type of factual document that would make it easiest for potential champions to work on his/her behalf.

[ldubs]

3 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Apparently Oceania has invoiced him and stated that they paid the bill themselves.

 

Pretty normal process.  The hang up  is apparently that his insurance will not accept the Oceania invoice an statement without an additional layer of documentation from Oceania indicating that they paid the bill.

 

  I'm reading the info differently.  The OP says he/she expects to receive an invoice from "O" (or NCL) but has yet to receive one.  So, unless I've missed something there is no Oceania invoice to accept or reject.   Further the OP indicates their insurer is aware that Oceania paid and is awaiting documentation from Oceania in order to reimburse Oceania.   I think the OP needs to have a sit down with the claims rep assigned this case.   

[Bongomauka]

37 minutes ago, PhD-iva said:

As Vallesan has also posted, you have an invoice (from the PAF) that you are responsible to pay. This should be sufficient documentation for your insurance claim (perhaps you have to first pay the invoice).
If Oceania also paid some monies, they will have to chase down their own refund - you will have settled the bill directly. If Oceania later tries to collect from you, you will be able to document that the bill has been paid (directly to PAF), and they’ll have to chase down their own refund.

I hope this helps.

Unfortunately this does not help. Our insurance was notified by Oceania that they paid the invoice so they are awaiting documentation of said payment from Oceania,not from us. In fact our attempts to pay directly have been unsuccessful including direct wire transfers and attempts through the Portuguese consulate.  

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 minutes ago, TRLD said:

As far as I can tell Oceania is following a fairly standard process where they pay the bill and pass the charge then invoice the customer.  In the case of my friends they sent the cruise line invoice to their insurance company, as well as the original invoice from the company doing the evacuation and that was sufficient for their insurance company.

 

Not sure why the OPs insurance company is requiring an additional level of documentation.

According to one or two (or three?) of the OP’s many responses, s/he has no Oceania invoice - only the PAF invoice. And “test” money s/he “wired” to the PAF has been “returned” without explanation - rather it just reappeared in the bank account used. All very unusual and reportedly devoid of adequate/written two-way communications.

[Bongomauka]

5 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

  I'm reading the info differently.  The OP says he/she expects to receive an invoice from "O" (or NCL) but has yet to receive one.  So, unless I've missed something there is no Oceania invoice to accept or reject.   Further the OP indicates their insurer is aware that Oceania paid and is awaiting documentation from Oceania in order to reimburse Oceania.   I think the OP needs to have a sit down with the claims rep assigned this case.   

We have been in almost daily communication with multiple claims representatives. It boils down to Oceania needing to provide documentation that they have paid, something that they have not done in almost 3 months. 

[TRLD]

4 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

  I'm reading the info differently.  The OP says he/she expects to receive an invoice from "O" (or NCL) but has yet to receive one.  So, unless I've missed something there is no Oceania invoice to accept or reject.   Further the OP indicates their insurer is aware that Oceania paid and is awaiting documentation from Oceania in order to reimburse Oceania.   I think the OP needs to have a sit down with the claims rep assigned this case.   

In going back and readying it I cannot not find anywhere that he has said that he has not received an invoice from the cruise line, only that he has not received proof that they paid the PAF.  He has stated that they have said that they have paid it, but has not said if he received an invoice.  That is why I am asking exactly what specific proof his company wants.  In any case I have encountered the insurance has been willing to accept an invoice from a travel company stating what was still owed.  

 

 

[Bongomauka]

9 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

OP has said s/he has wired “test money” to the PAF that has been returned without explanation. That there has been no other contact from the PAF nor provision of contact info et al., is VERY strange and suggests there are significant missing pieces to this story.

Hopefully OP is adept at summarizing evidence to make points that get results. In a separate post, I have asked OP to identify the perceived individual culprits interacted with and to prepare the type of factual document that would make it easiest for potential champions to work on his/her behalf.

Thank you for your post. We have well documented paper trails of all that has transpired. It still boils down to Oceania’s unwillingness to provide what should be readily available documents showing that they paid the invoice in question. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

Unfortunately this does not help. Our insurance was notified by Oceania that they paid the invoice so they are awaiting documentation of said payment from Oceania,not from us. In fact our attempts to pay directly have been unsuccessful including direct wire transfers and attempts through the Portuguese consulate.  

Sorry but, here you go again: little tidbits of crucial info that you drop here and there like a dripping faucet. So, Oceania HAS interacted with your insurer. Did I miss that crucial but of info in an earlier post? If so, l apologize. But, in any case, please tell us that you have a copy of that exchange in writing.

[Bongomauka]

Just now, TRLD said:

In going back and readying it I cannot not find anywhere that he has said that he has not received an invoice from the cruise line, only that he has not received proof that they paid the PAF.  He has stated that they have said that they have paid it, but has not said if he received an invoice.  That is why I am asking exactly what specific proof his company wants.  In any case I have encountered the insurance has been willing to accept an invoice from a travel company stating what was still owed.  

 

 

We have indeed received the invoice from the Portuguese Air Force but through Oceania’s third party insurance company. My primary health provider has indicated they will pay the claim but just needs receipts from Oceania that they paid which Oceania has not provided in almost 3 months of waiting. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

Thank you for your post. We have well documented paper trails of all that has transpired. It still boils down to Oceania’s unwillingness to provide what should be readily available documents showing that they paid the invoice in question. 

You’re concerned more with an oft repeated blaming of O that gets you no solution. You may want to reevaluate your strategy and tactics.

[TRLD]

2 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

Thank you for your post. We have well documented paper trails of all that has transpired. It still boils down to Oceania’s unwillingness to provide what should be readily available documents showing that they paid the invoice in question. 

Again what readily available documents do you expect them to have?  If your insurance company is not willing to accept a letter from them attesting to their having paid the bill.

 

From your own experience the invoice from the PAF is not exactly a wealth of information.  From your own attempt at payment there was not exactly any documentation sent to you only your money returned.  So if they paid it by a similar funds transfer exactly what do you expect to be the readily available documents?  It would have been an electronic transfer that unlike your case would have been accepted, but that would not have resulted in anything coming back.  So all they would have would be the date and time of the transaction, no receipt, no other invoice.  After all no reason for the recipient to generate another one once it is paid.

[Bongomauka]

17 minutes ago, TRLD said:

As far as I can tell Oceania is following a fairly standard process where they pay the bill and  then charge then invoice the customer.  In the case of my friends they sent the cruise line invoice to their insurance company, as well as the original invoice from the company doing the evacuation and that was sufficient for their insurance company.

 

Not sure why the OPs insurance company is requiring an additional level of documentation. Especially since he tried to pay and had his payment returned which would seem to indicate someone has paid the bill.  He might be able to go through the Portuguese SAR and Rescue administrative  unit to get confirmation.

 

I must admit that having retired from the health care industry and know several hospital administrators I tend to be rather prejudice against the Medicare advantage plans that the ways they go about denying payment without a lot of hurdles being jumped through.  A number of small hospitals are failing because of the numbers of medical bills being denied for farily flimsy reasons.

We would be happy to receive a bill from Oceania for the payment made to the Portuguese Air Force. Unfortunately they refuse to provide this to us to submit to our primary healthcare insurance the latter which has stated that they will pay it upon receipt of this documentation. Oceania had not been forthcoming with any documentation for almost 3 months. 

[GeezerCouple]

5 hours ago, Bongomauka said:

Thank you for your post. You have quite succinctly encapsulated our issue. We have already reached out to three different attorneys, none of which are interested in helping us. If you know of an attorney willing to help, we are all grateful ears. 

 

Several of us have made the same/similar suggestion, yet you keep ignoring it, or rephrasing it.

 

There is a huge (HUGE) difference in an attorney "not taking your case" (as you phrased in initially) vs. "not interested in helping you", as you've just written it.

 

Which attorney told you, exactly:

"Writing a letter to Oceania/NCL Holdings warning them that they need to respond or we will no longer be responsible for payment would hold no legal weight whatsoever."

 

If YOU write a letter like that, sure, probably "no legal weight whatsoever".

But if an attorney writes that letter, using *specific legal languange as appropriate and has it legally served", that is VERY different indeed.

And this (initial communication, letter writing) does not, at this stage, involve "taking your case", so I'm not sure where that idea originated.

 

There are legal meanings in these two and they are *NOT* the same thing.

"Not taking a case" would tend to mean you wanted to sue someone... that you actually have a "legal case" (emphasis on *case*, which could be a massive endeavor, especially against a huge corporation, who probably have far deeper pockets than you do).

 

OR... what we have suggested, have the attorney "help you", but "writing a letter".  There is no long term endeavor in this... simply a relatively short task, billed hourly.

 

You can keep complaining here about this OR you can ask an attorney to send a letter such as has been suggested (by us and others, some of whom have actual professional legal experience).  You can do both, of course, which is also fine:  complain here AND get that letter sent.

 

Did you really mean that NO attorney (after asking several) would even "help you" by writing that letter?

 

I honestly cannot even imagine the full aggravation you've experienced.

You are worried about possibly being held accountable for a large sum, and you cannot get the proper persons (or corporation) even to be appropriately responsive.

 

But there is a different way to handle it that you seem not to want to explore.

There isn't "a legal case" yet.  [You definitely want to *avoid* it becoming "a legal case" if possible... absolutely!]

At this stage, just get "help" (with a letter), but not "for a case".  It's not time to "sue anyone".

 

GC

[Bongomauka]

8 minutes ago, TRLD said:

In going back and readying it I cannot not find anywhere that he has said that he has not received an invoice from the cruise line, only that he has not received proof that they paid the PAF.  He has stated that they have said that they have paid it, but has not said if he received an invoice.  That is why I am asking exactly what specific proof his company wants.  In any case I have encountered the insurance has been willing to accept an invoice from a travel company stating what was still owed.  

 

 

My primary insurance company needs proof that Oceania either paid or did not pay the invoice from the Portuguese Air Force. They have indicated they will pay either party. Oceania has been silent in this regard, leaving both us and our insurance company unable to determine who should be paid. Without that information, we cannot move forward. 

[EJL2023]

How much is owed by someone?? Or how much has been paid by someone? 

[Bongomauka]

2 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Several of us have made the same/similar suggestion, yet you keep ignoring it, or rephrasing it.

 

There is a huge (HUGE) difference in an attorney "not taking your case" (as you phrased in initially) vs. "not interested in helping you", as you've just written it.

 

Which attorney told you, exactly:

"Writing a letter to Oceania/NCL Holdings warning them that they need to respond or we will no longer be responsible for payment would hold no legal weight whatsoever."

 

If YOU write a letter like that, sure, probably "no legal weight whatsoever".

But if an attorney writes that letter, using *specific legal languange as appropriate and has it legally served", that is VERY different indeed.

And this (initial communication, letter writing) does not, at this stage, involve "taking your case", so I'm not sure where that idea originated.

 

There are legal meanings in these two and they are *NOT* the same thing.

"Not taking a case" would tend to mean you wanted to sue someone... that you actually have a "legal case" (emphasis on *case*, which could be a massive endeavor, especially against a huge corporation, who probably have far deeper pockets than you do).

 

OR... what we have suggested, have the attorney "help you", but "writing a letter".  There is no long term endeavor in this... simply a relatively short task, billed hourly.

 

You can keep complaining here about this OR you can ask an attorney to send a letter such as has been suggested (by us and others, some of whom have actual professional legal experience).  You can do both, of course, which is also fine:  complain here AND get that letter sent.

 

Did you really mean that NO attorney (after asking several) would even "help you" by writing that letter?

 

I honestly cannot even imagine the full aggravation you've experienced.

You are worried about possibly being held accountable for a large sum, and you cannot get the proper persons (or corporation) even to be appropriately responsive.

 

But there is a different way to handle it that you seem not to want to explore.

There isn't "a legal case" yet.  [You definitely want to *avoid* it becoming "a legal case" if possible... absolutely!]

At this stage, just get "help" (with a letter), but not "for a case".  It's not time to "sue anyone".

 

GC

We have talked to three attorneys, none of which has agreed to take up our cause or even write a letter that would cajole Oceania to be forthcoming with the requested documentation. We can try to to search for another attorney who will but as we are emotionally and physically exhausted from over 9 months of daily wrangling with all the parties involved, we just don’t have the energy or hope that we can find an attorney who is willing to help us. 

[TRLD]

10 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

We would be happy to receive a bill from Oceania for the payment made to the Portuguese Air Force. Unfortunately they refuse to provide this to us to submit to our primary healthcare insurance the latter which has stated that they will pay it upon receipt of this documentation. Oceania had not been forthcoming with any documentation for almost 3 months. 

Just to be clear you are saying that Oceania will not send you an invoice for the amount that they say is owed to them.

 

So you have received an invoice from the PAF, but not an invoice from Oceania for the same amount and that Oceania refuses to invoice you for that amount.

 

That sounds a bit strange.  I can see them not having any "proof" of payment other than their transaction number from the electronic payment, but they should be willing to invoice.  Have you tried getting Oceania Finance on the phone in a conference call with your insurance company (primary) and the other insurance company (secondary).  

 

Another way might be for your company to actually deny the claim, then send the denial to the other third party insurance and have them pay it.  

 

 

Edited January 15 by TRLD

[Bongomauka]

For those of you who have suggested engaging an attorney to advocate for our cause, it would be more than helpful and gratefully appreciated if you could provide a name or contact of an attorney who would do so as we have been unable to find one who would. 

[Bongomauka]

13 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Again what readily available documents do you expect them to have?  If your insurance company is not willing to accept a letter from them attesting to their having paid the bill.

 

From your own experience the invoice from the PAF is not exactly a wealth of information.  From your own attempt at payment there was not exactly any documentation sent to you only your money returned.  So if they paid it by a similar funds transfer exactly what do you expect to be the readily available documents?  It would have been an electronic transfer that unlike your case would have been accepted, but that would not have resulted in anything coming back.  So all they would have would be the date and time of the transaction, no receipt, no other invoice.  After all no reason for the recipient to generate another one once it is paid.

A letter from Oceania attesting to having paid the bill would likely suffice for our primary insurance company to pay. As noted before, Oceania has, after almost 3 months, provided neither a letter attesting to having paid nor a receipt nor any documentation whatsoever. Hence our frustration and fear that their stalling and lack of action will ultimately cost us dearly. 

[Bongomauka]

7 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Just to be clear you are saying that Oceania will not send you an invoice for the amount that they say is owed to them.

 

So you have received an invoice from the PAF, but not an invoice from Oceania for the same amount and that Oceania refuses to invoice you for that amount.

 

That sounds a bit strange.  I can see them not having any "proof" of payment other than their transaction number from the electronic payment, but they should be willing to invoice.  Have you tried getting Oceania Finance on the phone in a conference call with your insurance company (primary) and the other insurance company (secondary).  

 

Another way might be for your company to actually deny the claim, then send the denial to the other third party insurance and have them pay it.  

 

 

 

Just now, Bongomauka said:

A letter from Oceania attesting to having paid the bill would likely suffice for our primary insurance company to pay. As noted before, Oceania has, after almost 3 months, provided neither a letter attesting to having paid nor a receipt nor any documentation whatsoever. Hence our frustration and fear that their stalling and lack of action will ultimately cost us dearly. 

As strange as you may think it is, it is true, in almost 3 months, Oceania has failed to provide documentation of payment or non payment of this invoice. Our fear is that they will eventually send us the invoice but after the year long window allowed for making claims set by the three insurance companies that could conceivably cover our claim. Hence leaving us essentially without insurance coverage and fully responsible for the bill. 

[ldubs]

35 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

We have been in almost daily communication with multiple claims representatives. It boils down to Oceania needing to provide documentation that they have paid, something that they have not done in almost 3 months. 

 

Understood.  That is a transaction between Oceania and your insurer, correct?   I suggest you clarify your status with your insurance company's claim rep assigned to your open claim.   Ask specifically what if anything is outstanding from you.  Ask what will happen if this claim is not resolved before your policy expiration date.