Explora versus Crystal: Just the facts please!

commodoredave · February 28

3 hours ago, parallax said:

I haven't been on NC since the reboot. We loved OC. The food and service were top notch. I was not a big fan of their cabins and it was the one negative in cruising with them. Due to our wonderful cruise on Explora in December, we have two cruises booked with Explora. We looked at doing a 2025 cruise with Crystal but the price point per day was too high. We can receive much better value on Explora, which includes a bigger standard cabin. Another downside is there is no casino onboard the Crystal ships. I believe they are planning to bring them back. It is a nice change of pace.

Well said. I too loved the old Crystal, but not interested in NC at current pricing and value points.

Dr. Cocktail · February 29

2 hours ago, commodoredave said:

Well said. I too loved the old Crystal, but not interested in NC at current pricing and value points.

Looking forward to seeing you on board!

We’ll talk!

commodoredave · February 29

8 minutes ago, Dr. Cocktail said:

Looking forward to seeing you on board!

We’ll talk!

Likewise.

mnocket · February 29

7 hours ago, Dr. Cocktail said:

I'm not being at all sarcastic when I say "please run the numbers again and point out my errors"! You need to explain and show your math. As I said, "just the facts, please" and prove me wrong. I have been known to occasionally get my math wrong!

Otherwise you're just making a subjective statement.

Use one of the websites that show you the number of cabins and grades and square footages to help you out.

I chose extremely similar Caribbean itineraries. You now have a project!

ps - I could care less what they think on the Crystal boards!

OK, I figured it out. You listed pricing for Crystal and Explora. In the first case your stated pricing was per person and you so stated. However, for Explora your pricing must have been per cabin, although you didn't so state. That inconsistency was the source of my confusion. Consistency is always a good thing when comparing data, don't you agree?

Dr. Cocktail · February 29

27 minutes ago, mnocket said:

OK, I figured it out. You listed pricing for Crystal and Explora. In the first case your stated pricing was per person and you so stated. However, for Explora your pricing must have been per cabin, although you didn't so state. That inconsistency was the source of my confusion. Consistency is always a good thing when comparing data, don't you agree?

I clearly state the price per person per cruise for each ship.

I then state theper diem, or per couple per day as the final number. The numbers are totally consistent. Kindly reread the post.

Perhaps you could actually go and check yourself and report back.

Edited February 29 by Dr. Cocktail

mnocket · February 29

4 hours ago, Dr. Cocktail said:

I clearly state the price per person per cruise for each ship.

No you didn't. You stated cost of $5,650 per person for Crystal and $9,600 per couple for Explora (actually didn't say per person or per couple, but it must be per couple for your calculations to make any kind of sense). Please reread your original post and report back.

And while we're at it, you may want to also review your inconsistency in comparing an 8-NIGHT cruise and an 8-DAY cruise and calculating per day costs in one case and per night cost in the other. You see, this inconsistency caused you to slip up when trying to compare the costs.

You said... "Crystal has an eight night voyage starting at $5500 pp for an oceanview cabin and $5650 for a veranda … about $1375 per couple per day, again in a tiny room."

You see an 8-night cruise = a 9-day cruise. Hence the per day cost is $5,600/9 = $628 per person per day or $1,256 per couple per day - not $1375 as you incorrectly calculated.

Further, when calculating the Explora costs, your inconsistency in nights and days once again seemed to confuse even you...

You said... "On almost the same days, Explora is also offering an 8 day itinerary … for $9600 or $1200 per couple per night"

You see an 8-Day cruise = a 7-Night cruise. So the correct calculation for the cost per night is -

$9,600/7 = $1,371 per couple per night, not the $1200 figure you incorrectly calculated.

And finally, even after correcting your miscalculations, caused no doubt by confusion regarding your inconsistent usage of Nights and Days, we are once again left in a quandary when trying to make sense of your comparison. You see, you leave us with apples and oranges. In one case you present cost per couple per night, and in the other you present cost per couple per day. Two different things.

So in the end, can we agree that consistency is in fact a good thing when comparing data? How much simpler, and accurate, it would have been if you had chosen consistent measurements... say settling on either X-Night or X-Day cruise lengths, instead of using both. And either cost per night or cost per day, instead of using both.

edit: confusion abounds when using mixed units of measurements. I had originally misstated that an 8-Day cruise = a 9-Night cruise instead of it being a 7-Night cruise. I edited to make this correction.

Edited February 29 by mnocket

Dr. Cocktail · February 29

5 hours ago, mnocket said:

No you didn't. You stated cost of $5,650 per person for Crystal and $9,600 per couple for Explora (actually didn't say per person or per couple, but it must be per couple for your calculations to make any kind of sense). Please reread your original post and report back.

And while we're at it, you may want to also review your inconsistency in comparing an 8-NIGHT cruise and an 8-DAY cruise and calculating per day costs in one case and per night cost in the other. You see, this inconsistency caused you to slip up when trying to compare the costs.

You said... "Crystal has an eight night voyage starting at $5500 pp for an oceanview cabin and $5650 for a veranda … about $1375 per couple per day, again in a tiny room."

You see an 8-night cruise = a 9-day cruise. Hence the per day cost is $5,600/9 = $628 per person per day or $1,256 per couple per day - not $1375 as you incorrectly calculated.

Further, when calculating the Explora costs, your inconsistency in nights and days once again seemed to confuse even you...

You said... "On almost the same days, Explora is also offering an 8 day itinerary … for $9600 or $1200 per couple per night"

You see an 8-Day cruise = a 7-Night cruise. So the correct calculation for the cost per night is -

$9,600/7 = $1,371 per couple per night, not the $1200 figure you incorrectly calculated.

And finally, even after correcting your miscalculations, caused no doubt by confusion regarding your inconsistent usage of Nights and Days, we are once again left in a quandary when trying to make sense of your comparison. You see, you leave us with apples and oranges. In one case you present cost per couple per night, and in the other you present cost per couple per day. Two different things.

So in the end, can we agree that consistency is in fact a good thing when comparing data? How much simpler, and accurate, it would have been if you had chosen consistent measurements... say settling on either X-Night or X-Day cruise lengths, instead of using both. And either cost per night or cost per day, instead of using both.

edit: confusion abounds when using mixed units of measurements. I had originally misstated that an 8-Day cruise = a 9-Night cruise instead of it being a 7-Night cruise. I edited to make this correction.

They’re both 8 night cruises . My error was interchanging the words nights and days.

In future, might I suggest a kinder tone (actually, a much kinder tone) and the simple question “are you using the words days and nights interchangeably?

My calculations for the stated per couple per diems are correct. Don’t take my word for it - go and report back.

A again, you have yet to expend any energy by checking the website.

i

Edited February 29 by Dr. Cocktail

commodoredave · February 29

While one can nitpick any set of facts, the bottom line here is that Crystal is more expensive than Explora at this point in time. Rather than arguing this fact, it would be more productive for Crystal fans to explain why they believe the higher price is worth it, as has been done on another thread. For me, the fact that Crystal has a librarian and a magician is certainly enough to justify the higher fares!

51 minutes ago, Dr. Cocktail said:

johng75370 · February 29

3 hours ago, commodoredave said:

For me, the fact that Crystal has a librarian and a magician is certainly enough to justify the higher fares

I’m glad you agree with me, although in addition to the more diverse entertainment options that you keep pointing out Crystal also has higher quality included beverages, more flexible food offerings, higher service level, more space per passenger, better bedding, and a more stable product - overall makes it worth paying more for Crystal. It’s great to have choice, and Explora and Crystal are different enough from one another that I would expect to pay more for one versus the other. I have enjoyed both products, and have upcoming bookings on both, so not saying one is always the right answer versus the other, just that IMHO Crystal deserves the higher prices it may charge.

Edited February 29 by johng75370

commodoredave · February 29

33 minutes ago, johng75370 said:

I’m glad you agree with me, although in addition to the more diverse entertainment options that you keep pointing out Crystal also has higher quality included beverages, more flexible food offerings, higher service level, more space per passenger, better bedding, and a more stable product - overall makes it worth paying more for Crystal. It’s great to have choice, and Explora and Crystal are different enough from one another that I would expect to pay more for one versus the other. I have enjoyed both products, and have upcoming bookings on both, so not saying one is always the right answer versus the other, just that IMHO Crystal deserves the higher prices it may charge.

I agree. If I can find a Crystal itinerary I like at the right price, I’m on it. Just haven’t found it yet, despite the massive appeal of a librarian and / magician.

ak1004 · February 29

I checked pricing of typical 8-10 nights European cruise next summer and compared it to Seabourn, as this is the closest in terms of inclusions.

SB - $450-500 per person per night

Ex - $500-550

CR - $650-700

Of course there are exceptions, but most sailings fall into that range. Prices are for entry level cabins, which are 215 sqft on Crysta;, around 290 sqft on SB and I think ~300 sqft on Explora.

Few observations:

As I mentioned many times, Crystal prices are insane to me. Personally I don't mind sailing in a 215 sqft cabin (we spend very little time in a cabin), but all other factors equal, I still prefer a larger cabin on a newer ship. But Explora is still more expensive than SB - why? SB is an established luxury brand, with proven track record. Explora is a new player. Should have more attractive price to steal loyal customers from other brands.

Which brings me to the next question: are you sailing for destinations, or the ship is the destination? If the ship is the destination, then having a nice library, a running track, better entertainment and enrichment, more personalized service at Crystal might be enough to justify the higher price. Otherwise, if you are in the port most of the day, it is less important. Yes, Crystal has now one of the highest space/passenger ratios, but SS and even Oceania never felt crowded to me.

PaulMCO · February 29

You cannot compare pricing at the current time unless it is a specific voyage. One time Crystal would be cheaper for equivalent another time Seabourn. Then try a 50% off Black Friday sail and Explora wins. Crystal has their Upgrade Suite promotion. Seabourn 25% Sail away and Explore has 40%. Depends on your cabin with Explora as the bigger ones with her and Crystal will be cheaper on some 2024 sailings.

One thing not mentioned is Butlers. Cannot get one on Explora unless you sail in a Residence. On Seabourn never. On Crystal all suites though the service level varies.

I love the food is subjective comment (I use it too). But it is not subjective to ME. I like variety and Choice. You get more on Crystal and Seabourn and zero on Explora as the menus are fixed and for a 21 day for us it is tiring. Then again you get the best on Regent.

Loyalty program -- non on Explora

World cruise with varied itineraries -- none on explora

Ability to book long b2b2b cruise -- slim to none on Explora. Check out their Med schedule, back and forth.

Explora one new ship, lots more planned and ordered and being built

Crystal two ships from the ancient mariner saga -- 4 planned but not orders

I can throw rocks a both to see if they stick. But the real message from a CC fan "choice is good"

We have cruises booked on Explora, Regent, Crystal, Silversea and Seabourn

Edited February 29 by PaulMCO

No Gut No Glory · February 29

Their website is not great.

PaulMCO · February 29

8 minutes ago, No Gut No Glory said:

Their website is not great.

That is the understatement of the year 🙂

ak1004 · February 29

49 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

You cannot compare pricing at the current time unless it is a specific voyage. One time Crystal would be cheaper for equivalent another time Seabourn. Then try a 50% off Black Friday sail and Explora wins. Crystal has their Upgrade Suite promotion. Seabourn 25% Sail away and Explore has 40%. Depends on your cabin with Explora as the bigger ones with her and Crystal will be cheaper on some 2024 sailings.

You are correct in general.

However, our daily limit is $500 USD per day. Why? We are very satisfied with Oceania (although I know it's not considered in the same category, but it's good enough for us), and we pay $350-400 USD for a typical European cruise on O. We are willing to pay slightly more for a "luxury" line, but I just cannot justify paying more than $500.

So, on SB, there are plenty of sailings under $500. On Crystal or Explora? NONE. Not even close. To charge 30-50% more, they have to be in a different league compared to SB. Are they?

commodoredave · February 29

53 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

You cannot compare pricing at the current time unless it is a specific voyage. One time Crystal would be cheaper for equivalent another time Seabourn. Then try a 50% off Black Friday sail and Explora wins. Crystal has their Upgrade Suite promotion. Seabourn 25% Sail away and Explore has 40%. Depends on your cabin with Explora as the bigger ones with her and Crystal will be cheaper on some 2024 sailings.

One thing not mentioned is Butlers. Cannot get one on Explora unless you sail in a Residence. On Seabourn never. On Crystal all suites though the service level varies.

I love the food is subjective comment (I use it too). But it is not subjective to ME. I like variety and Choice. You get more on Crystal and Seabourn and zero on Explora as the menus are fixed and for a 21 day for us it is tiring. Then again you get the best on Regent.

Loyalty program -- non on Explora

World cruise with varied itineraries -- none on explora

Ability to book long b2b2b cruise -- slim to none on Explora. Check out their Med schedule, back and forth.

Explora one new ship, lots more planned and ordered and being built

Crystal two ships from the ancient mariner saga -- 4 planned but not orders

I can throw rocks a both to see if they stick. But the real message from a CC fan "choice is good"

We have cruises booked on Explora, Regent, Crystal, Silversea and Seabourn

I like having choice, which is why we have 9 cruises booked with a variety of cruise lines. I am not loyal to any one cruise line, and in fact will go for the best deal to the best place at the best time. I was hoping NC would be part of what I could include, but I have not been able to find an itinerary or price point that appeals to me. Maybe next year or 2026.

Stickman1990 · February 29

53 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

On Crystal or Explora? NONE. Not even close. To charge 30-50% more, they have to be in a different league compared to SB. Are they?

I have cruises booked on Silversea, Crystal and Explora and all are well under $500 per day and most are previous cruises on lines like Regent have been below $500 - how? We plan ahead and grab bargains as they are offered by the lines and keep an eye on special offers

Try looking at a crossings on Explora 1 & 2 - I’m at sea at the moment so it’s too hard for me to go chasing around sites to quote specifics but I know that the Explora trans Atlantics are well priced

ak1004 · February 29

11 minutes ago, Stickman1990 said:

I have cruises booked on Silversea, Crystal and Explora and all are well under $500 per day and most are previous cruises on lines like Regent have been below $500 - how? We plan ahead and grab bargains as they are offered by the lines and keep an eye on special offers

Try looking at a crossings on Explora 1 & 2 - I’m at sea at the moment so it’s too hard for me to go chasing around sites to quote specifics but I know that the Explora trans Atlantics are well priced

Thank you. We do plan ahead, usually book 2 years in advance. But this can be a double edge sword - if we are currently fully booked for 2024-2025, we cannot take advantage of any special offers. But since we book our business flights with points, we need to book flights 11-12 months in advance, so booking a cruise to Europe 4-6 months in advance is not an option.

As for pricing - I was referring to European sailings. We did trans Atlantics once, it was fine, but we prefer port intensive sailings at this point. I know that TAs are cheaper, just not on our list at this point. Still too many places to see..

commodoredave · February 29

1 hour ago, Stickman1990 said:

I have cruises booked on Silversea, Crystal and Explora and all are well under $500 per day and most are previous cruises on lines like Regent have been below $500 - how? We plan ahead and grab bargains as they are offered by the lines and keep an eye on special offers

Try looking at a crossings on Explora 1 & 2 - I’m at sea at the moment so it’s too hard for me to go chasing around sites to quote specifics but I know that the Explora trans Atlantics are well priced

Please send me all the Crystal bargains you find. I’ve been looking for over a year to find a nicely priced cruise with them but no success so far. I’m willing to book far in advance or short notice. Thanks.

PaulMCO · February 29

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

You are correct in general.

However, our daily limit is $500 USD per day. Why? We are very satisfied with Oceania (although I know it's not considered in the same category, but it's good enough for us), and we pay $350-400 USD for a typical European cruise on O. We are willing to pay slightly more for a "luxury" line, but I just cannot justify paying more than $500.

So, on SB, there are plenty of sailings under $500. On Crystal or Explora? NONE. Not even close. To charge 30-50% more, they have to be in a different league compared to SB. Are they?

Seabourn is the best bargain for a Med cruise. They do alot of the less traveled ports. On Encore we visited Ephesus and Riviera was in port at the same day. Riviera was gone at 530pm. Encore stayed til 11pm and we had a excellent closed concert in the evening at the Library.

Was looking at 2024 sailings and many O cruises are creeping up to the $500 level (without air)

Eric from San Diego · March 1

No cruise line can ever be a better deal than any other. A thousand lobster tails loaded on in Athens costs the same for seabourne, exploration, crystal or princess. This is true for 1000 gallons of bunker fuel or 100 Indonesian wait staff. If the food is better on explora then crystal, then they have to skimp on entertainment. If the alcohol is better quality on seabourne then explora, they will have to charge more for the cruise or skimp on something else. All cruise lines from carnival on up get their fuel, food, alcohol, staff and entertainment from the same vendors. None of them has a secret source for filet mignon or Moet Chandon that is any cheaper than the others. If they did, the other lines would soon find out and copy them. Different cruise lines emphasize different features, but they are all playing the same game with one set of costs.

ak1004 · March 1

16 minutes ago, Eric from San Diego said:

No cruise line can ever be a better deal than any other. A thousand lobster tails loaded on in Athens costs the same for seabourne, exploration, crystal or princess. This is true for 1000 gallons of bunker fuel or 100 Indonesian wait staff. If the food is better on explora then crystal, then they have to skimp on entertainment. If the alcohol is better quality on seabourne then explora, they will have to charge more for the cruise or skimp on something else. All cruise lines from carnival on up get their fuel, food, alcohol, staff and entertainment from the same vendors. None of them has a secret source for filet mignon or Moet Chandon that is any cheaper than the others. If they did, the other lines would soon find out and copy them. Different cruise lines emphasize different features, but they are all playing the same game with one set of costs.

This is true, but different people have different priorities and preferences.

If someone cares about good entertainment, enrichment, and doesn't care about smaller cabins, they might consider Crystal a better deal.

If someone likes black caviar that costs $2k per kg, and you get it unlimited on SB or SS, then they might be willing to pay for it.

If someone likes the convenience on included excursions and flights, they might be willing to pay for it on Regent and SS.

On the other hand, for people who don't drink and like to book private tours, SS or Regent might be not a good deal because they would be paying for something the won't use.

Crystal fans will tell you that they feel like family on Crystal ships. They know the crew, the crew knows them, calls them by names etc. How much this is worth? To them, thousands. To me, zero.

Someone who doesn't mind crowds, lines and paying extra for almost everything, might consider Celebrity or Princess a good deal.

Edited March 1 by ak1004

Stickman1990 · March 1

24 minutes ago, Eric from San Diego said:

No cruise line can ever be a better deal than any other. A thousand lobster tails loaded on in Athens costs the same for seabourne, exploration, crystal or princess…Different cruise lines emphasize different features, but they are all playing the same game with one set of costs.

I disagree - I suspect you’ve never worked in Procurement or Supply Chain management?

Good Procurement professionals will often get better deals or terms

The other issue is what profitability the lines choose to target

Labour costs will vary on where you source your labour

Host Jazzbeau · March 1

Stickman is exactly right. I worked for many years at a NYS/NYC agency (complicated history). When we were planning our first building project I was looking to source furniture at a price we could afford. A sales rep from Herman Miller came to see me, and I initially blew him off because that's a luxury line – until he showed me the NYC Board of Ed contract that I could order off. Wow! Herman Miller was cheaper than schlock stuff elsewhere!

Same with cruise lines: Seabourn and Silversea are owned by two of the biggest cruise conglomerates and can benefit from their pricing power. Explora is theoretically owned by another of the Big 4, but because they have decided to do everything 'different' I'm not sure they are benefiting from that link. Crystal is the odd man out.

Luckily I don't put my cruises out to bid and take the lowest bidder, as I had to do with procurement on the job. So if Crystal offers more of what I'm looking for, I will pony up the money to cover their lack of Big Brother contracts. BTW that also means they won't be forced to use low-quality stuff just because CCL, MSC or RCG has a good deal on it. [Royal Club tonic, I'm talkin' to you!]

saminina · March 1

What are the three most important things to consider when booking a cruise?

Edited March 1 by saminina

Explora versus Crystal: Just the facts please!

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