Is this discrimination

[Megabear2]

3 hours ago, Selbourne said:

I am truly sorry to hear about this. As others have said, it should be obvious if you have been allowed to book an accessible cabin that you need assistance.  
 

However, may I ask one critical question? Had you completed and submitted the “On Board Needs Questionnaire”, which is now compulsory, and on that form ticked that you would need 1:1 assistance?
 

Up until now, it seems that those who have been denied boarding had failed to do so. If we start to hear about people being denied boarding who had correctly completed and submitted the form then that’s a whole new issue. 

Selbourne the OP of this thread HAD completed his Questionnaire, received no reply so resubmitted it to then be denied.  He was not a full time user of a chair so was not denied boarding but the fact remains his form was not acknowledged or actioned.

 

P&O need to acknowledge these submitted forms by more than the note on your personaliser stating formsubmitted on X date as that does not confirm they have actioned the request for assistance.

Edited June 4 by Megabear2

[solentsam]

They do, is it on or your booking conformation they send you its there in your itinerary section

 

 

[Megabear2]

6 minutes ago, solentsam said:

They do, is it on or your booking conformation they send you its there in your itinerary section

 

 

That appears regardless of any acknowledgement.  It goes on the reservation at day 1 but the closest they come to acknowledgement of your completing the form is in your cruise personalised where it states form submitted X date.

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

Selbourne the OP of this thread HAD completed his Questionnaire, received no reply so resubmitted it to then be denied.  He was not a full time user of a chair so was not denied boarding but the fact remains his form was not acknowledged or actioned.

 

P&O need to acknowledge these submitted forms by more than the note on your personaliser stating formsubmitted on X date as that does not confirm they have actioned the request for assistance.

My response wasn’t to the OP, but to a new poster with a similar experience. 
 

I agree however that with all the problems and bad PR at present, it is ludicrous that P&O don’t issue proper acknowledgements. It’s always been a frustration to me, even before the current problems. 

[Slugsta]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

That appears regardless of any acknowledgement.  It goes on the reservation at day 1 but the closest they come to acknowledgement of your completing the form is in your cruise personalised where it states form submitted X date.

 

When I booked prior to this requirement, then submitted the form under the new system, I got a revised booking confirmation with the 1:1 assistance documented.

[Megabear2]

5 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Up until now, it seems that those who have been denied boarding had failed to do so. If we start to hear about people being denied boarding who had correctly completed and submitted the form then that’s a whole new issue. 

I am aware you were answering a new poster and was simply pointing out to anyone joining the discussion late that someone who completed the form has been denied despite completing the form, in that case not once but twice.

 

[Megabear2]

13 minutes ago, Slugsta said:

 

When I booked prior to this requirement, then submitted the form under the new system, I got a revised booking confirmation with the 1:1 assistance documented.

So your original confirmation did not show it?  Without dragging back through this thread I have two bookings, one showing one to one, the other not.  I completed the same form on booking for both but for the one that did not have one to one at the point of booking submitted a second form amending our request to match the first one.  No new confirmation has been received for that second one, only the cruise personaliser has noted the form date of submission.

 

The first booked cruise is Ddcember 2024 the second one is August 2024.

 

I've just recently paid my balance and just checked my confirmation after reading your comment.  It does not show one to one. 

 

So now do I rock the boat and contact them when I get home on Friday or do I chance it with the screenshot and print out of the form?  I cannot help but think of the OP back in early May with his second form submission.

Edited June 4 by Megabear2

[Cloudyrain]

I emailed Accessibility a month ago with an enquiry relating to this, and they have failed to respond. I had an acknowledgment so I know they have recieved it, but still no response.

 

To be honest with the added hassle/stress they now seem to be adding to passengers with disabilities and to children in general, I think I may be taking my business elsewhere. I don't say that lightly, I'm a very forgiving and easily pleased person, but these issues do not occur when booking with other lines. Why are P&O making it so difficult for people?!

[Slugsta]

2 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

So your original confirmation did not show it?  Without dragging back through this thread I have two bookings, one showing one to one, the other not.  I completed the same form on booking for both but for the one that did not have one to one at the point of booking submitted a second form amending our request to match the first one.  No new confirmation has been received for that second one, only the cruise personaliser has noted the form date of submission.

 

The first booked cruise is Ddcember 2024 the second one is August 2024.

 

I've just recently paid my balance and just checked my confirmation after reading your comment.  It does not show one to one. 

 

So now do I rock the boat and contact them when I get home on Friday or do I chance it with the screenshot and print out of the form?  I cannot help but think of the OP back in early May with his second form submission.

That is correct. It was not a requirement when I originally booked  but I did get an email telling me that I had to complete the on-line form, even if I had already done this via email. After I did  this, my TA sent me an updated booking confirmation with the 1:1 assistance documented.

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, Slugsta said:

That is correct. It was not a requirement when I originally booked  but I did get an email telling me that I had to complete the on-line form, even if I had already done this via email. After I did  this, my TA sent me an updated booking confirmation with the 1:1 assistance documented.

My booking is direct with P&O so I would have expected the final confirmation to show 1 to 1.  I will consider my options.  Thanks.

[Victoria2]

Having an interest, I followed Selbourne's trials and tribulations [and the positives] on QA and so have read through this thread with great interest.

 

Regarding Cunard, our agent states when booking, an evac chair will be needed and I fill out the tedious but necessary 'form' to confirm. One future cruise form is yet to be filled out as 'error please try later' shows up when trying to access the form, as it did with two other bookings but which have now been resolved. No problem as my agent informs Cunard of the need at the time of booking and because of that, I get periodic emails from Cunard saying I need to fill out the form[s].

Well I will when the website allows me to

but

the crux of this post is to say, as a cynic now having had potential boarding issue last year [resolved as it was 'misreading' of the assistance list], I print out the form after its acknowledgement by Cunard and crucially, take it with us, just in case.

[S1971]

28 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

I print out the form after its acknowledgement by Cunard and crucially, take it with us, just in case

 

Good advice, printing out or even screenshots.

 

My only concern would be is that even with a print out if they can't see it on their system, I assume you'd still be denied boarding as a evac chair wouldn't of been allocated.

 

Although I'm comfortable using modern day apps for completing this type of form etc, I am very uncomfortable trusting them.

 

Is it just me?

[Victoria2]

50 minutes ago, S1971 said:

 

Good advice, printing out or even screenshots.

 

My only concern would be is that even with a print out if they can't see it on their system, I assume you'd still be denied boarding as a evac chair wouldn't of been allocated.

 

Although I'm comfortable using modern day apps for completing this type of form etc, I am very uncomfortable trusting them.

 

Is it just me?

I can't comment on apps but we experienced left hand/right hand syndrome on the previous QA cruise but being proactive, I found out before it became a really serious issue. It was worrying but the end result was a feather in the cap of a certain member of Cunard staff and I made sure that was noted.

 

I don't think we would ever be denied boarding but having 'proof' in the form of the print out the access protocols were followed and accepted is now part of the paperwork to bring with us.

I think any passenger who has filled out the form, evac or just for help,  should bring the paperwork along when boarding.

A tad tedious but dotting i's and crossing t's is now part of our boarding process.

[david63]

1 hour ago, Victoria2 said:

I don't think we would ever be denied boarding but having 'proof' in the form of the print out the access protocols were followed and accepted is now part of the paperwork to bring with us.

Personally I would not be that confident. Printing out the contents of a form that you have completed online does not provide any proof that it has been received and actioned by the cruise line - only a confirmation from P&O/Cunard would give that peace of mind.

 

The bottom line is that if the cruise line say they have not received the form and they do not have evac facilities available then there is a highly significant possibility that you will be denied boarding.

[Victoria2]

Once the [Cunard] form is reviewed and then submitted, a pop up appears confirming the submission with a one time chance to download the form to print out.

For us, that's a Cunard confirmation the form has been received.

 

If it became an issue at boarding especially after showing the submitted form, and I don't think for one moment there would be a problem, there would be hell to play and believe me, I can 'do hell'! 🙂

[S1971]

2 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

there would be hell to play and believe me, I can 'do hell'! 🙂

 

Given recent events as described by @Megabear2, not only would you get onboard you'd probably be upgraded 🤣

 

 

[jockosjungle]

OK for my situation.

 

Booked an indoor cabin with P&O for my parents as I did last year. Booked on 1 May, my Mum uses a wheelchair to help her get around distances. On the same day I filled out the mobility needs questionnaire, got a copy and everything. I know I did because it involved typing in tedious dimensions of the wheelchair. I ticked she was bringing a wheelchair and needed an evacuation chair.

 

This is exactly what I did last year on the same cruise.

 

Heard a lot of people talking about evacuation chairs, but I'd filled the form in but someone said to check its on your cruise planner. It wasn't. I checked with ***** who we booked the cruise with.

 

They said she wasn't bringing a wheelchair when they checked with P&O. I thought I'd messed up and not sent the form, then I found I had sent the form on the same day I booked the cruise.

I got told that my Mum has no evacuation booked, none are available. 

All I can say as a positive is that I didn't turn up with my family and my parents in August and all have to go home as they wouldn't let my Mum on.

 

It's clear P&O have reviewed the form, but haven't bothered to tell me that my Mum wouldn't be allowed on board.

 

I'm guessing they would have told me when i was at Southampton dock.

 

Any thoughts on what I can do? I feel I've done what P&O would have expected, the newspaper stories and P&O spokesman are claiming that people are turned away who didn't fill the form out. We did and if it wasn't for me, I would have no idea my Mum isn't going on the cruise.

All they're saying is I can move their cruise, they've agreed to this but I'm also getting "no evac chairs" for these cruises as well.

 

 

 

 

[Megabear2]

29 minutes ago, jockosjungle said:

OK for my situation.

 

Booked an indoor cabin with P&O for my parents as I did last year. Booked on 1 May, my Mum uses a wheelchair to help her get around distances. On the same day I filled out the mobility needs questionnaire, got a copy and everything. I know I did because it involved typing in tedious dimensions of the wheelchair. I ticked she was bringing a wheelchair and needed an evacuation chair.

 

This is exactly what I did last year on the same cruise.

 

Heard a lot of people talking about evacuation chairs, but I'd filled the form in but someone said to check its on your cruise planner. It wasn't. I checked with ***** who we booked the cruise with.

 

They said she wasn't bringing a wheelchair when they checked with P&O. I thought I'd messed up and not sent the form, then I found I had sent the form on the same day I booked the cruise.

I got told that my Mum has no evacuation booked, none are available. 

All I can say as a positive is that I didn't turn up with my family and my parents in August and all have to go home as they wouldn't let my Mum on.

 

It's clear P&O have reviewed the form, but haven't bothered to tell me that my Mum wouldn't be allowed on board.

 

I'm guessing they would have told me when i was at Southampton dock.

 

Any thoughts on what I can do? I feel I've done what P&O would have expected, the newspaper stories and P&O spokesman are claiming that people are turned away who didn't fill the form out. We did and if it wasn't for me, I would have no idea my Mum isn't going on the cruise.

All they're saying is I can move their cruise, they've agreed to this but I'm also getting "no evac chairs" for these cruises as well.

 

 

 

 

How many of you are involved, is anyone intending out of your party to travel? Which other cruises have no evac chairs, are they all this year? I assume you have all made final payments now, does your confirmation at final payment show anything different to your original booking confirmation which presumably showed Pasenger X evac chair as per the screenshots above? If something suitable is not available are P&O offering a refund?  Which department are you and your t/a dealing with?

 

Sorry to ask so many questions but it will help to make suggestions to you.

 

Thank you.

[Selbourne]

28 minutes ago, jockosjungle said:

OK for my situation.

 

Booked an indoor cabin with P&O for my parents as I did last year. Booked on 1 May, my Mum uses a wheelchair to help her get around distances. On the same day I filled out the mobility needs questionnaire, got a copy and everything. I know I did because it involved typing in tedious dimensions of the wheelchair. I ticked she was bringing a wheelchair and needed an evacuation chair.

 

This is exactly what I did last year on the same cruise.

 

Heard a lot of people talking about evacuation chairs, but I'd filled the form in but someone said to check its on your cruise planner. It wasn't. I checked with ***** who we booked the cruise with.

 

They said she wasn't bringing a wheelchair when they checked with P&O. I thought I'd messed up and not sent the form, then I found I had sent the form on the same day I booked the cruise.

I got told that my Mum has no evacuation booked, none are available. 

All I can say as a positive is that I didn't turn up with my family and my parents in August and all have to go home as they wouldn't let my Mum on.

 

It's clear P&O have reviewed the form, but haven't bothered to tell me that my Mum wouldn't be allowed on board.

 

I'm guessing they would have told me when i was at Southampton dock.

 

Any thoughts on what I can do? I feel I've done what P&O would have expected, the newspaper stories and P&O spokesman are claiming that people are turned away who didn't fill the form out. We did and if it wasn't for me, I would have no idea my Mum isn't going on the cruise.

All they're saying is I can move their cruise, they've agreed to this but I'm also getting "no evac chairs" for these cruises as well.

 

 

 

 

I’m very sorry to hear about your experience. 
 

With all the problems that people are currently experiencing, and the resultant bad PR that it can sometimes generate, It strikes me that there is a solution that P&O could adopt.

 

Anyone requiring an accessible cabin with P&O is unable to make a booking (either online direct or via a TA) without referral to P&O to specifically check whether one is available. Perhaps as part of the booking process, along with the “Do you require an accessible cabin?” question, there should also be some other questions, in particular “Do you or any of your party intend to bring a wheelchair”. If people answer ‘yes’ to any of these questions they should not be able to complete the booking but be referred to the same department who can then confirm if an evacuation chair is available, should one be required. If it is, and one can be allocated, the booking is confirmed. If it is required but one is not available then the booking cannot be made. 
 

This strikes me as a much better solution than allowing bookings to be made which are subsequently cancelled with all the resultant disappointment. I wonder what @molecrochip thinks about this suggestion? The current situation cannot continue. 

[Ardennais]

Excellent suggestion Selbourne, the voice of reason!

 

I’ve been phoning around for quotes for a few cruises this past week, and I’ve been asked more questions than usual about mobility and our ability to walk unassisted. I eventually booked via my usual TA on Saturday, and she was very thorough in her questioning. It’s a shame that something then goes wrong down the line. 

[david63]

There is nothing wrong with that suggestion and, I believe, that is now happening with new bookings but the problem is that the rules are being applied to bookings made before the enforcement of the rules and in some case a year or more before and I suspect that it is these bookings that are falling through the net.

[Megabear2]

21 minutes ago, david63 said:

There is nothing wrong with that suggestion and, I believe, that is now happening with new bookings but the problem is that the rules are being applied to bookings made before the enforcement of the rules and in some case a year or more before and I suspect that it is these bookings that are falling through the net.

Post #242 indicates the booking was made on 1 May for an August cruise so it would appear that on this occasion it is not an older booking.  Selbourne's suggestion is excellent but it would require sufficient people at the other end to deal with things promptly. 

[S1971]

34 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Post #242 indicates the booking was made on 1 May for an August cruise so it would appear that on this occasion it is not an older booking.  Selbourne's suggestion is excellent but it would require sufficient people at the other end to deal with things promptly. 

 

Yes, Selbourne's suggestion would be sufficient, but as you say it's only as good as the person the other end processing the information.

 

It amazes me that with all the technology nowadays, it really shouldn't that difficult to incorporate a program to autocheck evac chair availability at the time of booking, they obviously can only have a certain number, therefore once fully allocated the system simply rejects the booking.

[solentsam]

My only question is that they said they "sent the form " does that mean they e-mailed the old pdf form or did they fill in the on-line form? which may be the problem.

[Megabear2]

19 minutes ago, solentsam said:

My only question is that they said they "sent the form " does that mean they e-mailed the old pdf form or did they fill in the on-line form? which may be the problem.

We will need to wait to hear from the poster.  I would assume as it was a booking made on 1 May the travel agent would have told them it was online but no doubt they will tell us.