Maleth Aero - The One Show

[Megabear2]

6 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Note that P&O are in dispute over food and drink services - not about getting passengers from A to B. I agree that if P&O get their money back because the contracted food and drink services were not offered then every passenger should get compensation. 
 

Remember that’s less than £10 each way per passenger.

 

Also to add, certain influencers are complaining food and drink was not to BA or Virgin standard. The contracted service was Tui standard, which whilst ok is not Virgin or BA standard.

 

The planes they chartered never had Premium cabins or IFE despite suggestions by others it was a late change. The contract was signed really late. There was a real chance of no flights being available and holidays cancelled. It was the only operator not the cheapest.

 

The planes arrived from the previous operators in a poorer condition than Maleth expected. There was not time to refurbish. It won’t surprise me if Maleth are seeking damages from the previous operators due to the condition of the planes.

 

Re reputation: more damages was done by the P&O Ferry layoffs than this. This impacts a few thousand. The ferry issue was seen by tens of milliions.

.

As for Norse. Good airline, used to be Norwegian Airlines, have their own Dreamliner fleet and offer service on par with Tui.

You appear to be confirming there is a dispute over the contracted food and drink onboard rather than anything additional or outside the contract such as food/drink for the delayed passengers.  Is that correct?  If so would this really account for around £500,000 as claimed by Maleth, they seem to be saying P&O haven't paid them for this part of the contract.  Assumedly P&O will have met their main obligations and if I'm reading things correctly withheld the sum for the disputed food provision. Assumedly this " food dispute" is therefore the provision on every single flight, not just the delayed ones. That being the case assumedly the issue would have arisen long before the disastrous performance issues as P&O would have seen and had feedback on the food quality fairly early on in the contract which would raise the question what discussiins if any were being had on the food provision back in November/December, ie did they ask Maleth to improve it etc.  As for Virgin /BA standard in my humble opinion Virgin's food offerings can frankly be dire in economy so those influencers should be careful what they wish for!

 

As for the condition of the planes, the "poorer condition" must have been noticeable to P&O when they arrived.  If the aircraft were not as Maleth expected condition wise inside, assumedly alarm bells about their reliability and hidden maintenance issues should have arisen on delivery and both parties have discussed and looked at contingency planning in the case of aircraft failing  (which sadly they did on quite a few occasions which of course has led to these passengers having such difficulties). Preparation of how and by whom passengers would be looked after could've taken place at this time, including checking legal financial liabilities would/could be met by Maleth in the event of serious delay problems.  Not due diligence as such but certainly a checks and balances act to make sure P&O's passengers were going to be looked after correctly in the event of problems.  This opportunity seem to have been missed.  To the neutral observer it looks like a case of oh well fingers crossed ...

 

Although not much could have been done about it after the event, some sort of acknowledgement or apology at the end of the season that we are sorry things weren't up to our normal standard might have been nice and appreciated by those who had to fly on those aircraft. Instead no acknowledgement to their guests, just an announcement to the trade that the partnership would end. Another PR gaffe perhaps.

Edited July 30 by Megabear2

[molecrochip]

Generally you have the core service which is getting passengers from A to B with their luggage and then you have additional services such as food and drink.

 

Maleth have said they’ve not been paid/P&O have said they have withheld paying. No one has publicly confirmed when that happened. The assumption around it being at the end of the contract is likely to be wrong - the issue was largely sorted by then.

 

Aviation law sets out what is given to passengers due to delay. It makes it the legal responsibility of the airline this includes food, drink and overnight accommodation. UK law then covers delay compensation.

 

Again, there is a massive public assumption that when Maleth started operating the flights, P&O were happy with the state of the planes. I don’t believe this is true. Moreover, the only other option was cancel holidays.

It’s clear that Maleth didn’t have enough crew, enough spare planes to operate the contract. Some delays were due to crew working out, resting, then working back. This is not the norm in the long haul world. It was due to not enough staff.

 

Due diligence would have been difficult but I know the legal teams, they will have checked planes were due, they would have checked safety cases, discussed contingency planning and the service to be offered.

 

Legal teams don’t like companies apologising for things that aren’t their legal fault as there is a fear of assuming responsibility.

[Megabear2]

19 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Legal teams don’t like companies apologising for things that aren’t their legal fault as there is a fear of assuming responsibility.

How ironic. In this case it appears to be having the opposite effect and making the passengers batten down and be more determined than ever. Instead of going away it looks set to rumble on even if only through social media and news outlets.  

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

How ironic. In this case it appears to be having the opposite effect and making the passengers batten down and be more determined than ever. Instead of going away it looks set to rumble on even if only through social media and news outlets.  

TBH MB, this is the only place I see this issue, and I imagine for most people this will also be the case.

So any rumbling on is likely to have a limited impact on potential P&O passengers.

[Snow Hill]

13 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

TBH MB, this is the only place I see this issue, and I imagine for most people this will also be the case.

So any rumbling on is likely to have a limited impact on potential P&O passengers.

I have seen it many other locations other than this forum. 

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

TBH MB, this is the only place I see this issue, and I imagine for most people this will also be the case.

So any rumbling on is likely to have a limited impact on potential P&O passengers.

It's out there if you look for it and I donjust mean face ache.  Last week I was astonished to find Paul Ludlow being challenged on LinkedIn which is a professional site.

 

There are links via Radio 4 money programmes, Martin Lewis and also the trade magazines. 

[terrierjohn]

54 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

It's out there if you look for it and I donjust mean face ache.  Last week I was astonished to find Paul Ludlow being challenged on LinkedIn which is a professional site.

 

There are links via Radio 4 money programmes, Martin Lewis and also the trade magazines. 

But if you don't know about it, you won't be looking for any links, hence you won't find it.

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

But if you don't know about it, you won't be looking for any links, hence you won't find it.

I'm not suggesting that people will look for it.  I'm saying that those involved are keeping up their chase and fight and eventually something or someone will give.

 

I've nothing but a passing interest but I do see the name popping up in all sorts of places.  I do not think for one moment people won't book with P&O unless they were affected but I do think it's got a way to run yet.

[9265359]

18 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

If you only care about current sales then no need to do anything, if you are in it for long-term that's another matter. In the end P&O is  a brand, a good image can add hundreds to prices , a bad image and it's discounts and down hill

 

On the large ships an awful lot of the customers are new(ish) passengers and will never have heard of this storm in a teacup, and frankly couldn't tell you the difference between P&O Ferries for which there was a *lot* of bad publicity, and P&O Cruises - and frankly I was quite surprised that P&O Cruises didn't abandon the P&O name after that debacle.

 

As for the small ship customers who may fixate more on this - well they likely limit themselves to P&O because of various aspects, such as sailing from Southampton, the 'British' nature of the offering, the smaller ship - so whatever happens they will continue to sail with P&O.

[molecrochip]

4 hours ago, 9265359 said:

On the large ships an awful lot of the customers are new(ish) passengers and will never have heard of this storm in a teacup, and frankly couldn't tell you the difference between P&O Ferries for which there was a *lot* of bad publicity, and P&O Cruises - and frankly I was quite surprised that P&O Cruises didn't abandon the P&O name after that debacle. 

I’ve heard a story which I have no substantive backup for which states that the American side of the business would have been happy for Princess to have taken the P&O ships during the debacle. As I understand it , the U.K. side of the business fort for retaining the separate brand.

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

I’ve heard a story which I have no substantive backup for which states that the American side of the business would have been happy for Princess to have taken the P&O ships during the debacle. As I understand it , the U.K. side of the business fort for retaining the separate brand.

For how long I wonder, the brand is disappearing down under. 
 

 

[molecrochip]

47 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

For how long I wonder, the brand is disappearing down under. 
 

 

Very specific situation involving unbelievably high cost of having an Australian registered cruise line. The management was already part of CCL.

[tring]

2 hours ago, molecrochip said:

 the American side of the business would have been happy for Princess to have taken the P&O ships during the debacle. As I understand it , the U.K. side of the business fort for retaining the separate brand.

 

I really hope the P&O brand remains solely British based as the ambience is far better, and calmer than the American lines imo.

 

[Ardennais]

3 hours ago, tring said:

 

I really hope the P&O brand remains solely British based as the ambience is far better, and calmer than the American lines imo.

 

I thought that the ambience was just as good on Princess recently and better in some regards. The staff were definitely more engaged and cheerful.  

[9265359]

14 hours ago, molecrochip said:

I’ve heard a story which I have no substantive backup for which states that the American side of the business would have been happy for Princess to have taken the P&O ships during the debacle. As I understand it , the U.K. side of the business fort for retaining the separate brand.

 

I can understand the UK side fighting to retain, because once the name goes then inevitably so do the staff...

 

But are there that many circumstances where you have two entirely separate companies sharing a name AND are in a pretty similar business?

 

The only one that I can think of is Aldi, with Aldi Sud and Aldi Nord being created when the founding brothers fell out about selling cigarettes - nothing to do with health issues, but whether it would attract shoplifters.

[tring]

10 hours ago, Ardennais said:

I thought that the ambience was just as good on Princess recently and better in some regards. The staff were definitely more engaged and cheerful.  

 

A very different experience on Princess to P&O, but we only travel on the smaller P&O ships, having only done Azura for two cruises and Ventura for one. 

 

We would not be repeating Sky Princess, or any other Princess after our experience of Sky.  It depends how you describe cheerful, perhaps.  More along the lines of high and very obviously after your tips in my language.  Calm, pleasant and efficient are words I prefer to see to describe staff.  Even when we got on the ship, expecting to be directed to our cabin, we just ran the gauntlet of staff all basically saying, "Have a good Day", or similar, but none attempted to ask our cabin number, or direct us to our cabin.  Also the service in the MDR was incredibly slow - took a good 2.5 hours yet we did not always have sweets and all the lounges/entertainment venues had the sound turned up really high volume, to the extent my ears actually hurt at times.  We must have been on about ten different cruise lines, as done some specialist ones for certain places and Princess is about the worst for me.  Must admit we have not done other big American based lines, such as RCL or Celebrity, but are assuming they will be similar.

 

I have no particular wish for the P&O brand name to remain, but would certainly want it to still be a British based line.

 

 

 

Edited July 31 by tring

[Ardennais]

The crew had time to chat on Caribbean Princess and were pleasant and engaging and we never felt that they were after any tips. Service in the MDR was excellent too, but the food itself wasn’t that good. We didn’t find it too noisy to be honest (apart from the creaky cabin) and that’s something that my husband is very aware of, as loud music really affects him. We do love Iona, but the crew are rushed off their feet! 
 

[wetterthanwater]

I'm guessing P&O took the cheapest bidder and thus Maleth was chosen for the charter flights. You reap what you sow.

[carlanthony24]

7 minutes ago, wetterthanwater said:

I'm guessing P&O took the cheapest bidder and thus Maleth was chosen for the charter flights. You reap what you sow.

"The planes they chartered never had Premium cabins or IFE despite suggestions by others it was a late change. The contract was signed really late. There was a real chance of no flights being available and holidays cancelled. It was the only operator not the cheapest."  From Mole 

Edited August 2 by carlanthony24

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, wetterthanwater said:

I'm guessing P&O took the cheapest bidder and thus Maleth was chosen for the charter flights. You reap what you sow.

According to Moley, Maleth were the only bidder, it was either accept them or cancel a large chunk of bookings.

[Megabear2]

Interesting to note on their specially designated face cloth page a no win no fee lawyer has expressed interest in the matter and garnered nearly 200 people in favour of going ahead with the suggestion.  I hadn't realised how large the group involved on that thread had grown.

[9265359]

14 hours ago, wetterthanwater said:

I'm guessing P&O took the cheapest bidder and thus Maleth was chosen for the charter flights.

 

They didn't take the cheapest bidder, they took the most expensive - there was no other bidder, it was that one or nothing.

 

[zap99]

On 7/31/2024 at 10:48 AM, tring said:

 

A very different experience on Princess to P&O, but we only travel on the smaller P&O ships, having only done Azura for two cruises and Ventura for one. 

 

We would not be repeating Sky Princess, or any other Princess after our experience of Sky.  It depends how you describe cheerful, perhaps.  More along the lines of high and very obviously after your tips in my language.  Calm, pleasant and efficient are words I prefer to see to describe staff.  Even when we got on the ship, expecting to be directed to our cabin, we just ran the gauntlet of staff all basically saying, "Have a good Day", or similar, but none attempted to ask our cabin number, or direct us to our cabin.  Also the service in the MDR was incredibly slow - took a good 2.5 hours yet we did not always have sweets and all the lounges/entertainment venues had the sound turned up really high volume, to the extent my ears actually hurt at times.  We must have been on about ten different cruise lines, as done some specialist ones for certain places and Princess is about the worst for me.  Must admit we have not done other big American based lines, such as RCL or Celebrity, but are assuming they will be similar.

 

I have no particular wish for the P&O brand name to remain, but would certainly want it to still be a British based line.

 

 

 

On Arvia we were running a little late. When we ordered in the MDR I said to the waiter ' we may skip desert as we are booked into the 8.30 show followed by 710. This was at 7.40. Order pudding folks, I will speed things along for you. Best food on any of our P&O cruises.

[molecrochip]

9 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Interesting to note on their specially designated face cloth page a no win no fee lawyer has expressed interest in the matter and garnered nearly 200 people in favour of going ahead with the suggestion.  I hadn't realised how large the group involved on that thread had grown.

For me, this is the correct course of action. It is of course possible to do a small claims court application against a Foreign company - but it’s difficult.

 

If a no win, no fee can get enough interest then it makes sense to do a group claim in through a usual court procedure.

5 hours ago, zap99 said:

On Arvia we were running a little late. When we ordered in the MDR I said to the waiter ' we may skip desert as we are booked into the 8.30 show followed by 710. This was at 7.40. Order pudding folks, I will speed things along for you. Best food on any of our P&O cruises.

Yep, always talk to your waiter - good waiters can do most things.

[molecrochip]

To add further having read FB….

 

P&O have the ATOL license this means they must get you home if an airlines fails, and certain other failure protections. No mistep here that I can see.

 

P&O were responsible for providing the flight. P&O paid Maleth to undertake that service. To my knowledge everyone received a flight.

 

Maleth are liable in law, as the airline, for delay compensation.

 

It’s Maleth who are breaking the law. The CAA could revoke their right to operate in UK skies but this is usually only done for unsafe airlines.

 

As it’s UK law, the application should be made to a U.K. court. If Maleth don’t respond then it could potentially be decided in absentia. If you win then difficulty in this case will be getting money from Maleth.

 

If you can catch them land a plane in the UK then you could get it impounded by that’s an expensive problem

in itself.

 

Another interesting point I saw somewhere on FB was that P&O have acknowledged that cruise passengers were taken to the airport when the airline wanted based on an expected flight. They indicated that they were also lied to about certain flights leaving in the middle of the night, and then they didn’t.