Really struggling with NCL ethics and whether I should switch cruise lines

[pghflyer]

Uh, while you are correct that the cruiselines can't control when a port decides to make a change.....the cruiseline has a LOT of control over their deciding to change ports too.  NCL has a bad reputation for changing/ cancelling ports under the guise of "environmental policy and fuel consumption" (something like that, can't recall the exact phrase)....they have also (not all the time, but more often than they should) gotten in the habit of not announcing known port changes until the day or few days AFTER final payment is due (and no refunds).

Edited August 2 by pghflyer

[schmoopie17]

In reviewing the title to this thread, it got me thinking (dangerous, I know).

 

If I order a Big Mac at McDonald's (which I don't...haven't been to McDonald's in years) and it ends up being a Small Mac (which they have apparently become in the recent past), I would consider that an ethical issue. False advertising, at the very least. However, I wouldn't wrestle with whether or not to go back to McDonald's...I'd just go to Culver's (which I do).

 

I also wouldn't question if I should drop McDonald's on the internet...I'd just do it and be done with it.

 

But I guess that's just me.

[graphicguy]

26 minutes ago, schmoopie17 said:

In reviewing the title to this thread, it got me thinking (dangerous, I know).

 

If I order a Big Mac at McDonald's (which I don't...haven't been to McDonald's in years) and it ends up being a Small Mac (which they have apparently become in the recent past), I would consider that an ethical issue. False advertising, at the very least. However, I wouldn't wrestle with whether or not to go back to McDonald's...I'd just go to Culver's (which I do).

 

I also wouldn't question if I should drop McDonald's on the internet...I'd just do it and be done with it.

 

But I guess that's just me.

Here...here!  Amen!

 

Ethical issues?  Cruise lines?  Most of the responses are akin to overly dramatic knee jerk reactions.

 

[DorothyB]

47 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Not saying you're wrong here, you may well be 100% right. However, how can a cruise line know months ahead of time how crowded it'll be?

 

Our sailing was one of many that resulted from their decision to move the Getaway back to North America a few months early.  A few months ago, we could already see how many ships were scheduled to dock in each port on the days we were scheduled to be there.  

[DorothyB]

41 minutes ago, pghflyer said:

Uh, while you are correct that the cruiselines can't control when a port decides to make a change.....the cruiseline has a LOT of control over their deciding to change ports too.  NCL has a bad reputation for changing/ cancelling ports under the guise of "environmental policy and fuel consumption" (something like that, can't recall the exact phrase)....they have also (not all the time, but more often than they should) gotten in the habit of not announcing known port changes until the day or few days AFTER final payment is due (and no refunds).

exactly!

[pghflyer]

26 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Here...here!  Amen!

 

Ethical issues?  Cruise lines?  Most of the responses are akin to overly dramatic knee jerk reactions.

 

I get the facetious point and while I agree with the sentiment, my Big Mac doesn't cost $5K+, nor a few $K in gas to get there to eat it 🙂 

[SDRR007]

1 hour ago, pghflyer said:

Uh, while you are correct that the cruiselines can't control when a port decides to make a change.....the cruiseline has a LOT of control over their deciding to change ports too.  NCL has a bad reputation for changing/ cancelling ports under the guise of "environmental policy and fuel consumption" (something like that, can't recall the exact phrase)....they have also (not all the time, but more often than they should) gotten in the habit of not announcing known port changes until the day or few days AFTER final payment is due (and no refunds).

My suggestion then is choose another cruise line that suits your needs. Problem solved!

[pghflyer]

Right, because if I am not only singing praises, I should just go away.  NCL is a great vacation experience in the net, and I have never started a thread such as this to complain, but that doesn't mean there aren't sometimes aspects that NCL could do better and just because people get frustrated by these occasional items or want to discuss, doesn't mean they don't have a valid perspective.

[dbrown84]

3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

You might be surprised at how affordable MSC is, Aurea OR Yacht Club. I don't know if you've ever had a gander at the MSC website, but I think you might find their pricing competitive compared to NCL. I am glad to read you've never waited more than 10 minutes for a table, though, that's great. We waited more than that at Taste for breakfast on the Breakaway last year, and then service was extremely slow after that. We were turned away twice at the free Asian restaurant, too, wait times were an hour and a half. The irony is, I thought we'd chosen a cruise at a slower time of year (early November in the Med).

yes, I agree that the YC is very reasonably priced if you want to take advantage of the YC benefits.  For me, the only benefit would be the anytime dining.  I'm not interested in any of the other offerings.  That is what I meant by it would be a very expensive benefit.  Paying that much extra just for anytime dining.  But, like you said, if you priced MSC YC vs NCL Haven, there is a tremendous price difference.  Luckily, I actually prefer inside cabins (for the darkness) and rather lose my $$$ in the casino 🙂 

[dbrown84]

1 hour ago, pghflyer said:

.they have also (not all the time, but more often than they should) gotten in the habit of not announcing known port changes until the day or few days AFTER final payment is due (and no refunds).

and this was the original point of this thread.  

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, DorothyB said:

 

Our sailing was one of many that resulted from their decision to move the Getaway back to North America a few months early.  A few months ago, we could already see how many ships were scheduled to dock in each port on the days we were scheduled to be there.  

The key word being "scheduled" to dock. But since the whole thrust of this thread has been cruise lines making changes, what makes you assume that the schedule will be adhered to in the first place?

[DorothyB]

33 minutes ago, dbrown84 said:

yes, I agree that the YC is very reasonably priced if you want to take advantage of the YC benefits.  For me, the only benefit would be the anytime dining.  I'm not interested in any of the other offerings.  That is what I meant by it would be a very expensive benefit.  Paying that much extra just for anytime dining.  But, like you said, if you priced MSC YC vs NCL Haven, there is a tremendous price difference.  Luckily, I actually prefer inside cabins (for the darkness) and rather lose my $$$ in the casino 🙂 

I am similar in that a lot of the YC benefits are not something I'd be willing to pay extra for.  However, the next level down (Aurea) also has "anytime dining" (but in the main dining room instead of a dedicated dining room).  They have inside rooms in that category.  I didn't compare price on them since I am willing to pay extra for a balcony.  This is my analysis (without drink package as I wouldn't pay for that):

 

MSC Aurea deck deluxe balcony the total cost is $1,699 plus internet and drink package

For NCL, the cost of a balcony NOT in the haven or a suite is $3,134 plus cost of premium internet $180 = $3,314

[DCGuy64]

Last November, we were on the NCL Breakaway, and we had to skip our final port stop. The captain said it was due to rough seas. Well, needless to say, that didn't sit well with the passengers, especially those who (like us) had excursions booked. Guest Services was jammed full of angry people, many on the FB group were crying "class action lawsuit," and generally hyperventilating over it. We were disappointed but took it in stride. Some people online objected to the cancellation on the grounds that 2 other ships WERE docked there, so why couldn't we? The cries of "it's only NCL that does this," were everywhere. Except there were two facts these people didn't know.

1. One of the 2 ships already docked at the port arrived the day before we did, when the weather was calmer.

2. The other ship arrived in the morning, when the seas were calmer, too. We got a late start from the previous port because of something to do with the dock workers, so the delay meant we arrived later than planned, and the seas worsened.

One lady on FB even went so far as to write that our captain was "famous" for being too cautious. Right, and if he'd gone against his better judgment, tried to dock anyway, and either damaged the ship or any guests got injured in the process, that would've been just fine. 🙄

The moral of this little story is: before you grab your pitchfork and torches to second guess the captain or trash the cruise line, just consider the possibility you don't always know all there is to know.

 

Edited August 2 by DCGuy64
corrected a word

[DorothyB]

27 minutes ago, DorothyB said:

  However, the next level down (Aurea) also has "anytime dining" (but in the main dining room instead of a dedicated dining room). 

 

Correction - in at least some ships (Seascape) it is the same menus as main dining rooms but a dedicated dining room

[DCGuy64]

7 minutes ago, DorothyB said:

 

Correction - in at least some ships (Seascape) it is the same menus as main dining rooms but a dedicated dining room

That's right, we had a separate area of the MDR on our cruise for Aurea guests. Honestly, the access to Aurea spa and bar were worth it for us!

[luv2kroooz]

4 hours ago, jules181 said:

My point is, you're mad at NCL for it, but it's an industry wide practice.  You won't be any happier anywhere else.  It's been said many times here, the major lines are more the same than different, especially when it comes to the business operations like this.  

We must be the luckiest cruisers in the world. We don't experience the NCL-like chaos on the other lines. 😁😁😁

[luv2kroooz]

3 hours ago, pghflyer said:

For people sticking around with NCL....looks like a good day to buy those 100 NCLH shares for your shareholder credit.... 🙂

Royal Caribbean Group much better investment if you have cash. They've made significant ROI for their shareholders and just reinstated their cash dividend. NCL continues sucking wind from underperforming management....from someone who owns hundreds of shares of NCLH.

[schmoopie17]

1 hour ago, pghflyer said:

I get the facetious point and while I agree with the sentiment, my Big Mac doesn't cost $5K+, nor a few $K in gas to get there to eat it 🙂 

Facetious? Me?? Never...

Oops, there I go being facetious. 😁

 

I get your point about the vast difference in the cost of a cruise and a Big Mac. (Hey, the way things are going, a Big Mac may end up costing more than a cruise.)

 

But the gist of my facetiousness was to say if you're so dissatisfied with a company, be it McDonald's or NCL, you don't need to ask others if you should switch. Your dissatisfaction (whatever the price) should be enough for you to make up your own mind.

 

Now back to discussing port cancellations...

[luv2kroooz]

52 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

The key word being "scheduled" to dock. But since the whole thrust of this thread has been cruise lines making changes, what makes you assume that the schedule will be adhered to in the first place?

Umm... the published itinerary and accompanying port fees. Maybe?

[luv2kroooz]

3 hours ago, SDRR007 said:

The cruise lines have no control over a port changes regardless of the cruiseline. If the port says they can't dock then they can't.

 

 

You might consider rethinking that half truth.

 

What if the port says they can dock, but NCL instead decides to do routine maintenance on their ships engines which requires a slower speed which requires the ship to miss the port? That happened. Tortola, Breakaway

 

What if NCL advertises an itinerary that they know they cant keep due to the port limiting ships and passenger volume? That's happening now. Bar Harbour, Breakaway.

 

What if they just want to sail at a slower speed to save fuel after they've already advertised an itinerary and, in exchange, taken money from passengers who chose that itinerary? That happened to our family last year.

 

Thoughts on these situations?

 

 

 

Edited August 2 by luv2kroooz

[DCGuy64]

5 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

Umm... the published itinerary and accompanying port fees. Maybe?

But since we're talking about the possibility of a cruise line cancelling or substituting ports, what good does citing the published itinerary do? Imagine NCL plans to visit Roatan in 6 months, but then realizes 5 other ships are supposed to go there the same day. Not wanting to visit a port that's already crowded, it substitutes another port instead. Then later, 1 or more of the scheduled ships cancels or changes one of ITS ports, and suddenly Roatan isn't as crowded. Should NCL go back on its word and now put that port BACK on its schedule? I guess what I'm saying is: always assume that ANY port could be swapped or cancelled at ANY time, and you'll never be disappointed.

[luv2kroooz]

13 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

But since we're talking about the possibility of a cruise line cancelling or substituting ports, what good does citing the published itinerary do? Imagine NCL plans to visit Roatan in 6 months, but then realizes 5 other ships are supposed to go there the same day. Not wanting to visit a port that's already crowded, it substitutes another port instead. Then later, 1 or more of the scheduled ships cancels or changes one of ITS ports, and suddenly Roatan isn't as crowded. Should NCL go back on its word and now put that port BACK on its schedule? I guess what I'm saying is: always assume that ANY port could be swapped or cancelled at ANY time, and you'll never be disappointed.

My belief is that port schedules are known with some certainty 12 months out. Most cruise lines set their fleet schedules well in advance and rarely have major changes inside of final payment. So, there is no need to be regularly changing ports after final payment for corporate convenience.

 

We don't support post final payment itinerary changes in the name of corporate convenience .... we decided to perform maintenance on our engines - ummm, no, do that in dry dock on your own dime, not mine; we are going to optimize fuel consumption - ummm, no you need to be mindful and prudent of that before you develop and advertise your itineraries. If you failed to optimize a 2024 itinerary, too bad, too sad. That ship has sailed so to speak. Lesson learned and fix it for 2026.

 

None of my comments apply to understandable changes for hurricanes, civil unrest, medical emergencies, which is why the lines have a passenger contract. They need that protection. The contract was never intended to allow a company to abuse that policy, which NCL regularly does in our opinion. And we voted with our wallets.

 

Edited August 2 by luv2kroooz

[DCGuy64]

7 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

My belief is that port schedules are known with some certainty 12 months out. Most cruise lines set their fleet schedules well in advance and rarely have major changes inside of final payment. So, there is no need to be regularly changing ports after final payment for corporate convenience.

 

We don't support post final payment itinerary changes in the name of corporate convenience .... we decided to perform maintenance on our engines - ummm, no, do that in dry dock on your own dime, not mine; we are going to optimize fuel consumption - ummm, no you need to be mindful and prudent of that before you develop and advertise your itineraries. If you failed to optimize a 2024 itinerary, too bad, too sad. That ship has sailed so to speak. Lesson learned and fix it for 2026.

 

None of my comments apply to understandable changes for hurricanes, civil unrest, medical emergencies, which is why the lines have a passenger contract. They need that protection. The contract was never intended to allow a company to abuse that policy, which NCL regularly does in our opinion. And we voted with our wallets.

 

I mostly agree with you. But here's where I slightly (but only slightly) disagree: sometimes ships have unforeseen maintenance issues (plumbing, sanitation, Azipods malfunctioning) or mishaps (hitting a dock, provisions not arriving in time), and those cannot be predicted. I am glad to see you don't hold them responsible for things like hurricanes, civil unrest, etc. But many who complain about the cruise lines "pulling a fast one" are complaining about schedule changes for EXACTLY THOSE REASONS. Some ports are even being closed to ships due to changes in things like environmental laws or referenda. I have no issue with NCL making itinerary changes because I trust them to do it as seldom as possible. I have no business telling a multi-billion dollar operation how to do things because I'm not in charge and it's above my pay grade. But I applaud you for doing the right thing and voting with your wallets. That's smart. If you're not happy, there are more cruise lines out there.

[luv2kroooz]

5 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I mostly agree with you. But here's where I slightly (but only slightly) disagree: sometimes ships have unforeseen maintenance issues (plumbing, sanitation, Azipods malfunctioning) or mishaps (hitting a dock, provisions not arriving in time), and those cannot be predicted. I am glad to see you don't hold them responsible for things like hurricanes, civil unrest, etc. But many who complain about the cruise lines "pulling a fast one" are complaining about schedule changes for EXACTLY THOSE REASONS. Some ports are even being closed to ships due to changes in things like environmental laws or referenda. I have no issue with NCL making itinerary changes because I trust them to do it as seldom as possible. I have no business telling a multi-billion dollar operation how to do things because I'm not in charge and it's above my pay grade. But I applaud you for doing the right thing and voting with your wallets. That's smart. If you're not happy, there are more cruise lines out there.

I agree on the unexpected maintenance and the mishaps. We agree more than we disagree on this. All the best.

[kitkat343]

4 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Not saying you're wrong here, you may well be 100% right. However, how can a cruise line know months ahead of time how crowded it'll be?

If you google the website cruise timetables you can see how crowded ports you are scheduled to visit will be.  The site helpfully lists all of the ships scheduled to dock each day.  The cruise lines also have access to the official port schedules, so they are unlikely to use that site but its easier for passengers to access since we don't need to find each individual port's official schedule.

Edited August 2 by kitkat343