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Really struggling with NCL ethics and whether I should switch cruise lines


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54 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

 

Interesting. The cynic in me thinks that's just corporate speak for a money grab, but another part of me wonders whether this isn't just a nod to environmental groups who have complained for years about cruising's adverse impact on the ocean, sea life, etc.

Ships can sail faster if they burn more fuel.  On  my cruise  NCL cancelled the final port for the environmental reasons cited a few posts earlier and turned it into a sea day.   Technically, cancelling the final port did  help the environment by allowing us to sail more slowly and burning less fuel on the return trip to NY from the Caribbean.  

 

At the time, the most unethical part of the whole situation was that NCL continued to advertise the original itinerary with the dropped port until sailing (they dropped the port shortly after final payment).  People who booked directly with NCL after the itinerary change weren't told of the dropped port, and they weren't allowed to cancel.  However, I've never seen any other reports of NCL inaccurately listing their itineraries after dropping ports, so it's possible that was just a one time mistake.  It created some issues since only about half the passengers got the port cancellation email, and some passengers who didn't receive the notification called NCL and were told the port was still on the schedule so there was more confusion than necessary.  

Edited by kitkat343
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Posted (edited)

Airlines have fluffy environmental policies too, but I don't see them voluntarily rerouting my JFK-LHR flight to drop me in DUB instead because of headwinds that might burn a little extra fuel.  After 7 long pages.....this is where I think the ethics come in, they may be legally allowed to change all our ports at will, but choosing to do so when it isn't necessary and they advertised the port to customers....feels unethical.   Still I have to say, I think this is the exception and not a regular occurrence.  If I have had about 100 ports with NCL, I have only received that sketchy reason twice. Overall, big NCL fan.

Edited by pghflyer
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52 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

So your definition works when it is convenient. They do say FREE excursions.

Ha, no that's not correct, my definition works for everything. Thanks for playing!

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3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Ha, no that's not correct, my definition works for everything. Thanks for playing!

I still say $50 off the first passenger is not FREE by any definition of the word FREE.

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On 8/2/2024 at 3:38 PM, Firstin87 said:

@DorothyB, I've seen your posts (and that of a couple other of your fellow passengers) on the Roll Call for the Getaway's Oct. 20, which we are on.  No excursions have been listed for your sialing for some time and that is very odd and I've wondered if there is something strange going on with your sailing.  Getting such a variety of answers when you've called NCL's Customer Service line is a definite problem - either that staff is not told the truth, or they are making up an excuse when on the phone with you, or something else - lack of consistency is a problem.

 

We have cruised NCL ~20 times, most of them in the last 2.5 yrs. (DH retired 2.5 yrs. ago), mostly in suites, and are Diamond.  We, too, have been unhappy with NCL changing the itinerary just after final payment is made.  We can certainly understand when changes are made for weather, maintenance, or local issues (i.e., French port being skipped due to strikes), but when we have received these notices the reason is the phony "for environmental reasons".  Those environmental reasons are known well before passengers are notified.  NCL knows it and we know they know it.  The only reason to delay notifying passengers is to eliminate passengers having the opportunity to cancel their cruise with no penalty.  It's one of our biggest gripes with NCL and has also caused us to begin cruising other lines, despite being Diamond on NCL and loving their suites.  You are not alone with this complaint and their have been a number of threads and posts about this here on CC for some time.

 

As we are learning about other cruise lines, here is some info about little differences that you might find helpful.

 

Royal - no ability to do laundry on your own; irons not available to use in your room (they claim 'safety issue", but other cruise lines at least have the ability to have an iron brought to your room for you to us and return); no free internet minutes.

 

Princess - they sell a Princess Plus and Princess Permiere add on packages that cover gratuities, casual dining, specialty dining, etc. that you can compare and see if either one is an addition that you'd like; they have self-serve laundry rooms onboard for a 'minimal charge' (their words, don't know the price).

 

I agree with you that it is time consuming and can be frustrating to research and compare different cruise lines.  It's so easy to just keep booking NCL when you know what you're getting, how to navigate their website, etc.  We are trying Royal for the first time in a couple weeks for a 7 day cruise and are looking forward to it.  We've got some other NCL trips booked since we have some CruiseNext certs to use, and have also got some Princess cruises booked, so expanding our horizons.

 

 

I didn't read all the other posts, so hopefully not a duplicate, but ...

 

FYI - cruise critic has already done the heavy lifting. probably a bit obsolete as I don't think they are updated for these recent changes, but for example here is CC's take on princess vs ncl:

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles/princess-cruises-vs-norwegian-cruise-line 

 

you also have passenger view:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2974979-princess-v-ncl/

 

so while only you know what you need, at least you can get some guidance.

Personally, post-Covid all the lines we've sailed (including Oceania) were a bit worse.  I'm hoping that this was short term on those lines.   Haven't yet sailed NCL (I work, so need itineraries and dates that align with my needs), but i do hope this changes before I can use them.   It's always a PITA when cruise lines change the port times, and so far i've only seen it being attributed to environment, but frankly we posit that it's rather savings on fuel.  But i would rather them be upfront.  I chose the optimal line based upon the info i have -- and because it does matter to me, i am not fond of port-roulette.   

 

and not sure if answered, but princess Anytime dining does exist.  We have observed some people have worn jeans post-Covid, but these are strictly not permitted - and sometimes they will be turned away from MDR.  You don't need to be fancy (even on dress to impress night), but you do need to do equivalent of resort casual.   I wear a button down shirt.   I had been skipping formal nights early on post-Covid, but then talking to other cruisers and observing:  this is formal enough now.   I'm done packing suits, but agree i don't want to see flip-flops and shorts! 

 

 

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assuming a real question and not a joke:

 

if he wore actual pants/slacks, then yes.   note that on the formal nights I would suggest button down shirt for men, but as many have said - this has been relaxed of late.

 

for women - at least my wife always wears dress or pants+blouse.   I suppose I should say - she does not wear spaghetti strap dresses, etc - but nothing super formal.  

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13 minutes ago, 90scruzer said:

if he wore actual pants/slacks, then yes.

See, this is where the confusion comes in....

3 hours ago, 90scruzer said:

We have observed some people have worn jeans post-Covid

In many/most worlds, jeans are pants.  I won't ask you to define "jeans," because that is just as ill-defined as resort casual.  One person is wearing $100 designer jeans.  The person next to them is wearing polyester slacks from Walmart.  Who is better dressed?

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6 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

See, this is where the confusion comes in....

In many/most worlds, jeans are pants.  I won't ask you to define "jeans," because that is just as ill-defined as resort casual.  One person is wearing $100 designer jeans.  The person next to them is wearing polyester slacks from Walmart.  Who is better dressed?

In my part of the world men and women wear pants underneath their jeans / trousers / skirts or dresses.  Suspenders are garter belts, and a vest is an under garment for men. Anyone wearing only pants, suspenders and a vest may look fabulous but would not be admitted to the dining room - or any public area!

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I’m on a 7 day Bliss cruise in February 2025 and got an itinerary change, less time in port and 2 ports swapped. So while I get the OP is upset on the way it was handled there clearly had been some major changes needed.

 

They may have been waiting to see if anything changes and client wait any longer. 

 

until any of work in operations at a cruise line,  why they changed is not information we are privy too and can speculate if it’s ethics or not. 
 

travel in general has lots of moving parts and things change quickly and sure it’s a logistical nightmare changing ports and getting vendors for tours. 

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12 hours ago, dbrown84 said:

Czech tourists dressed in Borat wigs, mankinis arrested in Kazakhstan

I TOLD YOU NOT TO SHARE THAT PHOTO OF ME before going into Le Bistro!!!

 

But honestly, throw a t-shirt on, put some ankle length socks on, and that's me. Is this resort casual? Because to me, it's vacation mode!

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15 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I still say $50 off the first passenger is not FREE by any definition of the word FREE.

OK. Maybe they should remove that perk to avoid confusion. Would that satisfy you?

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a) interesting - while I certainly don't recall any of what Catchum pointed out in my limited time I lived there, but back then it was all about the mini-skirt fashion.   I frankly don't recall any jeans by non-US people.  I wore slacks, button-down shirt (aka dress shirt) and a tie to work and fit in just fine...

b) chief-mate - I won't dispute this, but again never observed it in Europe or South America.   The people I worked with who wore jeans, liked jeans and it was fine (it was later than point [a]).  But they also always indicated that jeans were expensive clothing for them, so only wealthier people wore them.   

c) I know that there are $600 jeans.  I overheard my doctor getting complimented on his new $600 jeans one day ...   they are not resort casual, but as many can point out:   it's a new trend that some people are wearing them to dinner.   personally, jeans are too thick to go along with my packing strategy, so I won't have them ever on a cruise (OK - maybe if I ever do a world cruise).

d) I don't have any issues with Borat's clothing  :).  It's not me (no-one wants to see my legs :'().   And it is right fine for the buffet.   I'm quite at home with shorts + t-shirt in everyday life.   

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3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

OK. Maybe they should remove that perk to avoid confusion. Would that satisfy you?

I CAN'T GET NO SATISFACTION.

 

Oh wait, instead I will accept your compromise in the spirit it was offered.

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When it comes to jeans, I think the distinction between 'good for dining room' and 'not good for dining room' is the condition of the jeans.  That $500 pair of jeans being faded and ripped (as is the style for 'the kids' these days) is 'not good', whereas if the $50 jeans from Walmart are brand new, they are 'good'.  Also, colored jeans can look dressier than blue jeans.  DH brings black jeans that look new, had worn them on Oceania to MDR, and never had a problem and looked fine.

 

I've taken dress codes to generally mean look neat, no holes, and covered up.

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1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I CAN'T GET NO SATISFACTION.

 

Oh wait, instead I will accept your compromise in the spirit it was offered.

No worries, I was obviously kidding. I *do* think that the other items, though, are really in the spirit of "have a good time and don't worry about dining times, paying for drinks, etc." The excursions part doesn't seem to fit that. I say seem because I haven't taken the time to ask the NCL marketing department about it. I'm just a regular passenger, I don't work in the travel industry nor do I work for NCL or any cruise line. I'm just guessing. My larger point has always been to remind people that "Free at Sea" does not mean it costs nothing. That's a common misunderstanding, especially among first time cruisers, and I know that's not you.

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1 hour ago, Firstin87 said:

I've taken dress codes to generally mean look neat, no holes, and covered up.

I think you have nailed it!  But, of course, this being Cruise Critic, someone may pop up and insist you define "neat".  Sigh.

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Chasing loyalty perks on a cruise line is as foolish as chasing casino comps in vegas.  Be loyal to your wallet and the vacation that interests you.  All of these loyalists are wasting money and getting a very poor return.  Don't like the offering a company has? Look elsewhere. Simple as that.

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On 8/4/2024 at 4:33 PM, ontheweb said:

I am not surprised that they kept selling shorex when they knew they could not go there.

 

There are worse.  A few years ago HAL was selling an entire cruise while another travel agency was selling the same cruise as a charter.  This happened several times.  It's called a contingency cruise.   The travel agency will take over the entire cruise if/when they sell sufficient cabins to make it worthwhile.  And, no, existing reservation sold through HAL were  just out of luck of the contingency was met. In at least one case it was and IIRC the compensation for those who lost their reservation was OTOO $150.  It was an Alaskan cruise.  Bottom line, if you're looking for 'ethical cruise lines' you wil be disappointed.

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On 7/31/2024 at 10:42 AM, cruiseny4life said:

 

 

image.png.b98c1442e984daef377b69a1bb424ced.png

That Costa Maya stop is useless.  I really hate that they do stops like that and it seems NCL does them much more frequently than other lines.  At least in my observations.

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On 8/5/2024 at 10:53 AM, DCGuy64 said:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free

A lot of those who complain about NCL misleading them with shouts of "Free at Sea" are apparently misunderstanding the definition of "free." It can mean several things, but often means "without cost," however NCL means "without restrictions." Just look at their TV ads where someone sings "I want to break free." Nowhere do they say everything comes with no cost attached. Free at Sea means you can dine anytime, having all the drinks you want, and surf the internet. If you think "free" means "it costs me nothing," then that's on you.

Any marketing type will quickly tell you that the quickest way to make a sale is to convince the mark they're getting something for free.  Play with dictionaries but Free At Sea is a marketing gimic to make sales.

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