Disappointing ballroom dancing on QM2.

[D&N]

7 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

When my husband was a very young man, ballroom dancing was the sort of dancing people did, and in his case how he met girls, I think. It seems to have taken place on very crowded dance floors, with people who were not expert dancers, but just sort of knew what to do. How did they manage?

 

I occasionally watch the ballroom dancing, so I have some idea how that goes. What about the other sort of dancing which takes place to pop music I dislike? Do people crash into each other doing that? Is there a code of conduct?

Possibly from time to time dancers of all sorts could make mistakes and cause an accident. By making a mistake I mean failing to make sure that they don't crash into someone else. The code of conduct must be much the same, avoid hitting anyone.

 

As a boy (under 16) in the early 70s I went to a disco in Glasgow City Centre to meet girls. You were very careful not to crash into anyone as the results could have been life changing.

[D&N]

14 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

No. Not watched the video as I don't need to. I haven't seen any crashes.

 

My point is the opposite of saying 'no novices.. Totally opposite. It's  about those who possibly inadvertently, put off novices by comments on how to dance/where to dance and all the talk of floorcraft  and serious dance stuff for those who just want to get up and give it a go so please point our where I have said it would be a good thing to scare novices off.

 

So by this you mean the so called experts could be put off?

[So if those who are put out in print by smaller dance floors/twirlers who are novices who have no notion of floor craft, have no intention of learning but just want to give it a go without subjecting themselves to instructions and so might get in the way, waltz off to other cruise lines, that can only be a good thing for mainstream Cunard dancers.]

 

If so I find it a rather confusing and long winded way of saying it.

Even so I'd rather they all stayed and the 'experts' used that floor craft that they have learned. That way the novices will only ever crash into each other as the 'experts' should know how to avoid them.

 

Besides I thought you always advocated keeping as many passengers on Cunard as possible to safeguard future operations.

 

Edit: You might enjoy the video!!!

Edited August 16 by D&N

[Dancer Bob]

I'm not sure what Victoria2 means when she says "novices" but I don't think it's the same meaning the rest of us are using.

[NE John]

I believe the issue lies with the intimidation factor. Quite a few people want to get up a give a waltz or Cha-cha a go but the handful of  perceived “show-off” dancers turns them off (us included). That’s not 100% on the ballroom dancers and some of us have to get over that intimidation factor.
Solution — the Cunard singers/hosts could make more announcements during the evening to encourage all dancers of all levels that they are welcome. I just hear “and now a quick-step, and now a Samba, etc”. The hosts are only speaking to the ballroom dancers. Bottom line, we often feel the QR dance floor on ballroom nights is not welcoming to those who are not as well-studied in dancing as others. 

[RalphWiggum]

I actually think the QR has become more welcoming since the resumption of cruising.  

 

On my first Cunard cruise in 2018, I was mildly annoyed with the heavy ballroom emphasis as it did seem (at least to me) that you were not welcome if you weren’t a ballroom dancer.  I am not - but did learn basic swing steps in college when it was trending. So we could only dance to songs conducive to swing. That said, making lemonade out of lemons, we enjoyed having a drink and watching the other couples dance the majority of songs.  On my second and third WBs (before Covid), we even befriended two members of the ballroom  crowd and one of the dance hosts.  We hung out each night until past midnight dancing (both QR and G3). It was interesting hearing their inside info on some of the dance couples (which dancers were sought after, which couples never danced with anyone but themselves, etc) and confirming that there was some resentment of non-ballroom dancers since too many of them made it hard to navigate around.  Sorry, though, I still think I should be able to slow dance to a song I like, but when Covid hit,I had started taking waltz lessons in order to be able to dance more. 

 

After the resumption of cruising, and the lack of dance hosts, things changed.  There are fewer dance hosts, fewer folks wearing dance shoes, and, for some reason, more awful covers of pop songs.  Nonetheless, the dance floor has been fuller and more lively the last two years. And yes, not everyone is doing the foxtrot during a foxtrot song.  I think that’s a good thing.   

[Jan10]

We enjoy a ballroom/latin dance or two and often do this at quieter times in QR  but we also enjoy nights when we can bring our 70s disco to the fore. My son and daughter in law are in their early 40s and they enjoy going on the door to all sorts of music on cruises with Princess and Cunard. They don’t do ballroom/latin. They are the next generation and we should be encouraging them to enjoy the evening entertainment as much as we have. 

[Victoria2]

2 hours ago, Dancer Bob said:

I'm not sure what Victoria2 means when she says "novices" but I don't think it's the same meaning the rest of us are using.

Novice

someone new to an act or situation

[D&N]

9 minutes ago, RalphWiggum said:

And yes, not everyone is doing the foxtrot during a foxtrot song.  I think that’s a good thing.

And a couple might attempt a foxtrot to a song that others might be doing disco or swing to. 😀

 

Most musicians and hosts won't have much if any dance experience, so you can understand them announcing then getting on with the music. An MC type host shouting swing dancers to centre of the floor, foxtrotters to the perimeter, could be helpful, but realistically that's not going to happen. We're happy to share the floor and hopefully others give us just enough room to pass if we're doing different things. All it takes is a little more than my shoulder width as we can drop our arms to avoid contact.

 

I try to watch for anyone approaching the dance floor and make space for them to join, but I recognise there are others that don't. Some get hung up on trying to do complex variations they have learned and are reluctant to abort them part way through. I can't remember most of the complex stuff we have learned in the past so we normally stick to trying to do fairly basic steps well. I much prefer to watch other dancers doing the basics with style than trying to do all sorts of fancy steps.

 

We can't really influence other ballroom dancers, so all we can do is dance with consideration to others as we always do. I've arranged a two hour private lesson with our old dance teacher, followed by her public class for that evening on a very short trip to Scotland later this year. The purpose being that we are very rusty and need to get her to check for any bad habits that might have crept in. We rarely get a chance to practice in France.

 

I'd still suggest that many people here would enjoy the Tony & Maria videos from all the Cunard ships. Compared with other vloggers they seem to just be posting the dance videos for entertainment. I don't think there is the usual push to subscribe, although there are buttons for doing so, they don't seem to be selling anything, and I don't think I've been interrupted by adverts when watching their stuff.

[Victoria2]

3 hours ago, NE John said:

I believe the issue lies with the intimidation factor. Quite a few people want to get up a give a waltz or Cha-cha a go but the handful of  perceived “show-off” dancers turns them off (us included). That’s not 100% on the ballroom dancers and some of us have to get over that intimidation factor.
Solution — the Cunard singers/hosts could make more announcements during the evening to encourage all dancers of all levels that they are welcome. I just hear “and now a quick-step, and now a Samba, etc”. The hosts are only speaking to the ballroom dancers. Bottom line, we often feel the QR dance floor on ballroom nights is not welcoming to those who are not as well-studied in dancing as others. 

Intimidating is a word I decided not to use but yes, I find the jargon on CC intimidating and off putting before even daring to set foot on the floor which I haven't post Covid.

 

We have been on cruises where there's been a group of passengers on a ballroom cruise. Wow. Talk about talking over the floor.

Everyone pays to enjoy their holiday and if folk want to dance but can't or feel so intimidated that they won't due to overwhelmingly brilliant dancers [who are lovely to watch by the way] taking over the floor, then it's time to change the usage of the QR and for me, that's what happened on QA. Dancers danced, musicians played and duos sang. More diverse a programme than * just pure ballroom type dancing and more enjoyable because of it for many, us included.

Edited August 16 by Victoria2
*just

[Millieloulou]

We love to go to the Queens room and watch the dancers. Many years ago I was a competitive ballroom/latin dancer, most weekends were taken up going around the country competing.Then I met, and married my lovely husband , who has two left feet! I never encouraged him to have dance lessons.He always asks when we are watching “ Is she/he a good dancer, and I always answer that they are good.But I was a very good dancer.

Ce La Vie!

[Pear Carr]

22 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

then it's time to change the usage of the QR and for me, that's what happened on QA. Dancers danced, musicians played and duos sang.

And given the number of passengers on board and the poor design, layout, limited seating/viewing many are unable to enjoy the Queens Room on QA unless you get ‘front row’ seats early.

[Victoria2]

17 minutes ago, Pear Carr said:

And given the number of passengers on board and the poor design, layout, limited seating/viewing many are unable to enjoy the Queens Room on QA unless you get ‘front row’ seats early.

That is a different issue and nothing to do with QR more diverse entertainment and thus less pure ballroom dancing although just like many things in life, the early bird and all that! 🙂

[njpln]

7 hours ago, NE John said:

the Cunard singers/hosts could make more announcements during the evening to encourage all dancers of all levels that they are welcome. I just hear “and now a quick-step, and now a Samba, etc”. The hosts are only speaking to the ballroom dancers. Bottom line, we often feel the QR dance floor on ballroom nights is not welcoming to those who are not as well-studied in dancing as others. 

Background : My husband and I have taken quite a few lessons over the past seven years minus Covid. We gave up Foxtrot after about 25 lessons because he was new to dancing and was intimidated with leading around the dance floor, he was so consumed with not bumping into others, even though the better dancers would never let that happen. We never even took waltz lessons….

 

Instead, We’ve become very good at the dances that don’t follow the line of dance. Rumba, swing, hustle, nightclub 2step.  So early on I would say my husband “don’t listen to what they’re saying. Let’s just get up and dance and do what we know.”

 

Now, we get on the floor and he says “what are we doing?”  He knows that I don’t care what the singer or the DJ says, we will dance what we know, and we rarely bump into anyone. We are not expert dancers by any means….but we enjoy dancing!

 

So I had to say that I really agree with what you said, NE John. But people shouldn’t feel they have to do whatever the leaders called. You can’t become a better dancer if you don’t get up and do it on a real dance floor.  (And I think you should dance like nobody’s watching, which means do whatever you know and are comfortable with.).
 

My only issue that I’ve ever had on Cunard is that we can do single swing when people are quickstepping. And we know enough to go to the center of the floor. But I have to say we’ve never felt welcomed.  😉

Sorry for going in a bit but we also will be sad if Cunard continues to take away the ballroom dances or relegates them to the gala nights.  We love to watch the dancers do waltzes and tangos.  And if anyone gets up for a samba line dance, I will be right up there with them!

 

I hope everyone gives feedback about this. We did after the QA cruise.

 

 

 

[Victoria2]

15 hours ago, D&N said:

 

...Besides I thought you always advocated keeping as many passengers on Cunard as possible to safeguard future operations...

 

 

I thought about this.

 

I feel using the QR for more than just ballroom dancing will in fact encourage more folk in time to join in.

 

I'm not saying ball room dancing is too passée for the C21st, it's not but equally, if folk don't feel they can join in the dancing  for whatever the reason then it's time to open up the area to a more diverse usage and if that puts off the committed ballroom dancers because they can't have the floor all evening then that's quite frankly, tough.

 

We have passed the QR on QV after visiting the theatre, almost every night. It's a wonder to behold when the floor is full but also one or two dancers does not make for a sparkling atmosphere and can seem soulless at times especially when recorded music is played.

 

On our month, in total, on QA so far, the QR has been vibrant every night. Ballroom dancing interspersed with 'other' dancing, music, singing, visiting acts...a perfect use of the space and if it puts off the more 'seasoned' dancer in favour of those who just want to 'give it a go', then as far as I'm concerned, that's great for the average passenger and yes, will encourage more to join in.

 

The area isn't as large as on the other ships and I accept viewing might be poor for some but the atmosphere is sparklingly good and so a soulless at times but spacious Queens Room v a vibrant smaller area? I wonder which one will encourage passengers to join in.

[D&N]

We'll see how things suit us next June.

I have the homesickness problem that I experienced for the first time when I was 65, which fills me with dread every time I think about travelling away from our local area.

Then we don't know if we'll enjoy the trip in 2025 as much as 2022.

We've already decided to give 2027 a miss. With no crossings in June 2026, we've had to go for September. I feel September 2026 to June 2027 is too soon to leave here again, and friends want us to do a short break to celebrate something that year. I don't think I'd want to face multiple trips.

 

If QM2 doesn't live up to expectations next year we won't bother booking from 2028 on.

I've said before we're not dance purists and can happily share all sizes of floor with other styles of dance, but if we don't get enough opportunity to be up dancing it's a waste of time and money.

We're probably only worth a little more than £10k p/a in revenue to Cunard so I doubt we would be missed, and there are plenty of places in this region where we can spend the money, albeit dancing opportunities are few and far between.

[NE John]

4 hours ago, D&N said:

I've said before we're not dance purists and can happily share all sizes of floor with other styles of dance

I believe you’ll be just fine with the variety of music in QR (‘Motown, disco, etc). Only the Beatlemania night had such a packed QR that no dancing could be had. It was like standing up at a concert and swaying to the music. But it was fun and the place was packed and well received. 

Edited August 17 by NE John

[D&N]

5 minutes ago, NE John said:

I believe you’ll be just fine with the variety of music in QR (‘Motown, disco, etc). Only the Beatlemania night had such a packed QR that no dancing could be had. It was like standing up at a concert and swaying to the music. But it was fun and the place was packed and well received. 

Thanks. That's my thoughts too, only disagreement is that we'll be able to dance to Beatlemania.

 

My suspicion is that things in the Queens Room and G32 on QM2 won't be as anti dance as some folk make out. We'll see next June.

 

I see a QE video has appeared on YT from this Alaska season. No idea if it was your sailing.

[NE John]

41 minutes ago, D&N said:

Thanks. That's my thoughts too, only disagreement is that we'll be able to dance to Beatlemania.

 

My suspicion is that things in the Queens Room and G32 on QM2 won't be as anti dance as some folk make out. We'll see next June.

 

I see a QE video has appeared on YT from this Alaska season. No idea if it was your sailing.

I saw that same YT video and it was our trip. Several dancing couples took up lots of real estate on the floor and added to that sense of “intimidation”. I admit that some of this problem are dancing self-conscious dancers like I am added with those who seem like they want to show off and take up lots of space in doing so. 

For the record, I’d be honored to share the QR with you. 
 

 

Edited August 17 by NE John

[57eric]

When we first ventured into the Queen's Room, we were not intimidated by the outstanding ballroom dancers, we were inspired, and took up lessons when we got home.  But Cunard no longer seems to be about uplifting experiences.  Instead, it's "How do we appeal to the masses?".

[*Miss G*]

8 minutes ago, 57eric said:

But Cunard no longer seems to be about uplifting experiences.

 

I have to strongly disagree with you, here.

[exlondoner]

44 minutes ago, 57eric said:

When we first ventured into the Queen's Room, we were not intimidated by the outstanding ballroom dancers, we were inspired, and took up lessons when we got home.  But Cunard no longer seems to be about uplifting experiences.  Instead, it's "How do we appeal to the masses?".

Are the masses not allowed uplifting experiences?

[Victoria2]

48 minutes ago, 57eric said:

When we first ventured into the Queen's Room, we were not intimidated by the outstanding ballroom dancers, we were inspired, and took up lessons when we got home.  But Cunard no longer seems to be about uplifting experiences.  Instead, it's "How do we appeal to the masses?".

I'm one of the 'masses' and our holidays on Cunard always give me an uplift. Hope that's OK with you! 😄

[NE John]

I don’t think mixing up ballroom, Motown, and disco dancing in QR means the end of civilization.

[exlondoner]

3 minutes ago, NE John said:

I don’t think mixing up ballroom, Motown, and disco dancing in QR means the end of civilization.

No, that was the invention of television, a word which, as you know, is half Greek, half Latin, and therefore presaged the end of civilisation, according to the then editor of the Guardian.

[ShipboardSteve]

3 hours ago, 57eric said:

When we first ventured into the Queen's Room, we were not intimidated by the outstanding ballroom dancers, we were inspired, and took up lessons when we got home.  But Cunard no longer seems to be about uplifting experiences.  Instead, it's "How do we appeal to the masses?".

 

What could work for all categories of 'dancers' would be if there was a mix of different kinds of dance, but in separate slots for different genres of music - for example, play a disco song and announce it is for any kind of dance people want to do, but then next song is specific, such as a foxtrot, waltz or rumba, because to dance a foxtrot you need space, with couples moving in a good flow anti-clockwise around the floor - that way beginners as well as experienced couples can share the floor, not necessarily at the same time, and everyone who knows the foxtrot can enjoy the foxtrot, and passengers who enjoy watching trained dance couples can enjoy seeing them - experienced dancers feel exhilarated when they can move without hindrance, and it has nothing to do with showing off - it simply feels wonderful when the body can move to the music in a very easy way according to the movements that the dance requires, and whilst doing so couples can easily flow around and between less experienced couples.  After that perhaps another disco song with all flavours of dancing again. Clearly on a packed floor when people are enjoying dancing, the experienced ballroom dancers can't easily do a foxtrot - but if each kind of dancer has some time to enjoy their style of dancing then everyone could be happy?  However making every song an opportunity for any and all kinds of dance means only those who can move around in a small space on a crowded floor can enjoy themselves.  Some Latin dances don't need much space, but even then experienced Latin dancers will move around a bigger area of floor if it isn't busy but restrict themselves to figures that don't move much if it is a densely packed floor.

So there is a way to satisfy both disco dancers as well as ballroom and Latin dancers by announcing different dances to the different kinds of music, if the understanding and the will to do it was there, in the way the managers are able to think and then run the Queens Room accordingly. Having no announcements which which dance the song is for, at all, means it is indeed a free-for-all, and clearly experienced trained ballroom and Latin dancers will lose out in that way of running the Queens Room.   But perhaps the loss of the relatively small number of passengers who do enjoy utilising their trained bodies in dancing is not important to Cunard now, and particularly for Queen Anne? That is a shame as with a little thought and planning all passengers could be happy with at least some time on an evening to do what they like in the way of dancing.