"Stateroom Capacity Advisory" Email - Have you received this notification?

[forevercruising1]

We are angered by HAL’s new policy and livid that those of us who booked long before it was activated are not exempt.  

 

* We booked two cabins for this year’s Christmas cruise on the Koningsdam (12.21.24) with the Future Cruise Consultant onboard the Koningsdam last December, 2023.  
 

* We selected two very specific cabins due to their locations and their verandahs.

 

* As always, our bookings were marked “Do not upgrade.”  We chose those cabins and have no desire for any others.

 

* We have Club Orange for both cabins — paid for at initial booking.

 

* We were NOT provided with the “do you accept the possibility of your cabin changing due to capacity levels” option.  Had we been presented with that, we would not have booked at all.

 

We received the following notice in an email yesterday (again, we booked in December, 2023):

 

We are booked in a quad extended balcony cabin, which we selected specifically for its location and balcony, and we booked the same cabin (on the other side) for our adult son and are paying the single supplement for his.  We were never informed that the cabin capacity might ever become an issue.

 

It is ironic that HAL’s email states that “guest stateroom selection is on a first-come, first-served basis,” as we were clearly the first, yet HAL is choosing to serve other people and take our cabin(s) away from us. 

 

Instead of canceling (which my husband is ready to do), I would like to fight this and try to keep our Christmas cruise cabin selections and vacation plans in tact (we are not interested in changing to any of the few cabins that are still available on that sailing).  Is anyone else currently in this situation and attempting to fight the good fight?  If so, what is your plan?

[KAKcruiser]

This is one of those '"life is not fair" situations.  I agree with you that HAL should let people who booked before the new policy stay in their reserved cabins.  But they can do whatever they want and this is what they have decided.  I would be upset also but in the end would try to change to a 2 person cabin to avoid any hassle.  But, good luck with that now the choices are slim.  Also, good luck with finding a HAL rep who can accomplish the change.  I think I would call the Club Orange people though sometimes you get a call center there, too.

[julia]

I am sorry that you are dealing with this... you booked your cruise in good faith, chose and paid for your desired cabins (Club Orange is irrelevant), and looked forward to your holiday sailing. This new policy is totally abominable, and will continue to cause nothing but grief.  I wish you luck...

[KAKcruiser]

I'm not so sure that Club Orange is irrelevant.  When you originally booked, did you pay for a lower category cabin and then get upgraded to a higher category cabin when you paid for Club Orange?  If so, I'm not sure where you would end up if they gave away your cabin and moved you.  I would definitely try talking to the Club Orange department and try to straighten this out sooner rather than later.

[TRLD]

6 hours ago, forevercruising1 said:

 

We are angered by HAL’s new policy and livid that those of us who booked long before it was activated are not exempt.  

 

* We booked two cabins for this year’s Christmas cruise on the Koningsdam (12.21.24) with the Future Cruise Consultant onboard the Koningsdam last December, 2023.  
 

* We selected two very specific cabins due to their locations and their verandahs.

 

* As always, our bookings were marked “Do not upgrade.”  We chose those cabins and have no desire for any others.

 

* We have Club Orange for both cabins — paid for at initial booking.

 

* We were NOT provided with the “do you accept the possibility of your cabin changing due to capacity levels” option.  Had we been presented with that, we would not have booked at all.

 

We received the following notice in an email yesterday (again, we booked in December, 2023):

 

We are booked in a quad extended balcony cabin, which we selected specifically for its location and balcony, and we booked the same cabin (on the other side) for our adult son and are paying the single supplement for his.  We were never informed that the cabin capacity might ever become an issue.

 

It is ironic that HAL’s email states that “guest stateroom selection is on a first-come, first-served basis,” as we were clearly the first, yet HAL is choosing to serve other people and take our cabin(s) away from us. 

 

Instead of canceling (which my husband is ready to do), I would like to fight this and try to keep our Christmas cruise cabin selections and vacation plans in tact (we are not interested in changing to any of the few cabins that are still available on that sailing).  Is anyone else currently in this situation and attempting to fight the good fight?  If so, what is your plan?

Since it is now August and the Cruise is December HAL is making sure that you are notified in time for you to cancel and get a refund.

 

It also indicates that they are serious about the application of the policy.

 

Options seem pretty clear cancel or take your chances.  

[forevercruising1]

33 minutes ago, KAKcruiser said:

I'm not so sure that Club Orange is irrelevant.  When you originally booked, did you pay for a lower category cabin and then get upgraded to a higher category cabin when you paid for Club Orange?  If so, I'm not sure where you would end up if they gave away your cabin and moved you.  I would definitely try talking to the Club Orange department and try to straighten this out sooner rather than later.

 

Yes, when we purchased Club Orange, we started at the lowest Verandah category and were upgraded to the Verandah cabins that we chose.  That does confuse things -- thanks for the suggestion to speak to a CO rep.

Edited August 18 by forevercruising1

[POA1]

A couple of things - I don't think there is such a thing as a Club Orange rep.

 

Is your fare eligible for free 3rd and 4th passengers? And did you book refundable deposit?

[forevercruising1]

16 minutes ago, POA1 said:

A couple of things - I don't think there is such a thing as a Club Orange rep.

 

Is your fare eligible for free 3rd and 4th passengers? And did you book refundable deposit?

Not sure what you mean with your first question — when we originally booked, there was no free 3rd or 4th passenger promotion (that was 12/2023).  Yes, we have refundable deposits.

 

In regards to my reference to a CO “rep,” when I have called to add CO and select new staterooms, I have had to be transferred to an agent capable of completing those tasks; the regular HAL phone rep is usually not able to do it.  As KAKcruiser said, there is a CO department which handles the CO upgrades.

Edited August 18 by forevercruising1
Clarification

[cbr663]

It is Ship Inventory that manages Club Orange selections.  It is also Ship Inventory that will decide to move you should they need your cabin for a party of four.

 

If I were in your position I would simply cancel now.  My thinking is that there is a reason that the email was sent beyond the FYI notifying me that there is a chance that it will happen.  My thinking is that there is a very good chance and as final payment is approaching there is now an out.  Once final payment passes options are very limited.

 

Like others, I find it disingenuous of HAL to accept payment for an upgraded cabin and location and then to move you without notice.  This policy contradicts the Club Orange program.  HAL appears to think that moving you to a cabin in the same category is sufficient, but it isn't as the Club Orange program allows you to select the category and location of your cabin.  HAL is well aware that the location of a cabin is paramount for many passengers as a cabin's location is a key driver of a cabin's category and pricing.

 

I written it previously on CC and nothing has yet changed - HAL is making it much too difficult to book a cruise.

[NCTribeFan]

When you add CO, you can select a cabin in the highest category.  That doesn't mean the capacity issue doesn't apply.

 

I was bumped from my "favorite" class J Large Interior on Eurodam in January.  Didn't know it until I checked in at the pier.  I was NOT happy.  I'm in another on N. Am. in November and I expect to be bumped again (I'm solo and cabin holds 3).  

 

I'd prefer to receive this email than to show up at the port and find in then that I've been "upgraded" to a cabin I don't want.

 

When I booked my fall 2025 and spring 2026 sailings (14+ nights for both on Vista-class ships), and wanted a J cabin, my PCC said she  couldn't put me there.  There are only 2 cabins that hold 2 pax; the others are all triples and quads.  So I'm in a K cabin, aft and am concerned about movement/vibrations, but those were the only large interiors available for only 2 pax.

 

It is what it is.  Celebrity is doing pretty much the same thing.  Even read that they aren't letting solos even book most 2-person cabins.  That will be a deal-breaker for me.  I won't be forced into a solo cabin.

[Lido deck main]

2 hours ago, NCTribeFan said:

When you add CO, you can select a cabin in the highest category.  That doesn't mean the capacity issue doesn't apply.

 

I was bumped from my "favorite" class J Large Interior on Eurodam in January.  Didn't know it until I checked in at the pier.  I was NOT happy.  I'm in another on N. Am. in November and I expect to be bumped again (I'm solo and cabin holds 3).  

 

I'd prefer to receive this email than to show up at the port and find in then that I've been "upgraded" to a cabin I don't want.

 

When I booked my fall 2025 and spring 2026 sailings (14+ nights for both on Vista-class ships), and wanted a J cabin, my PCC said she  couldn't put me there.  There are only 2 cabins that hold 2 pax; the others are all triples and quads.  So I'm in a K cabin, aft and am concerned about movement/vibrations, but those were the only large interiors available for only 2 pax.

 

It is what it is.  Celebrity is doing pretty much the same thing.  Even read that they aren't letting solos even book most 2-person cabins.  That will be a deal-breaker for me.  I won't be forced into a solo cabin.

We cruised with another couple to Alaska this summer they booked earlier than us and chose their cabin as they like to know where they will be, they chose an inside on deck 7 an M inside, we went with inside guarantee and got a J inside on deck one.  Wow, we loved that room.  We could hear a very little noise from billboard on board area but not enough to bother us at all.  That is my new favourite the J inside.  It was about 50% larger than the M inside on deck 7.

[gizmodog]

I am so upset over this policy, I always choose my cabin and usually pay the extra price for doing so, I never look to see the occupancy as that has never been an issue in the past. I currently have 4  cruises booked with Holland having picked my cabin for all 4.

we re travelling with 3 other couples who have also picked their cabin. So in total we have 4 cabins booked for 4 different cruises.

we are all in a quandary now as this new policy seems very unfair to passengers picking their own cabin for location not how many people it holds.

cruising is becoming too hard to even book these days with all the rules and regulations.

i hate to cancel my vacations but do not want to be moved to a cabin of their choice either!

Edited August 18 by gizmodog

[atexsix]

2 hours ago, NCTribeFan said:

When you add CO, you can select a cabin in the highest category.  That doesn't mean the capacity issue doesn't apply.

 

I was bumped from my "favorite" class J Large Interior on Eurodam in January.  Didn't know it until I checked in at the pier.  I was NOT happy.  I'm in another on N. Am. in November and I expect to be bumped again (I'm solo and cabin holds 3).  

 

I'd prefer to receive this email than to show up at the port and find in then that I've been "upgraded" to a cabin I don't want.

 

When I booked my fall 2025 and spring 2026 sailings (14+ nights for both on Vista-class ships), and wanted a J cabin, my PCC said she  couldn't put me there.  There are only 2 cabins that hold 2 pax; the others are all triples and quads.  So I'm in a K cabin, aft and am concerned about movement/vibrations, but those were the only large interiors available for only 2 pax.

 

It is what it is.  Celebrity is doing pretty much the same thing.  Even read that they aren't letting solos even book most 2-person cabins.  That will be a deal-breaker for me.  I won't be forced into a solo cabin.

This was my concern with HAL, most of the attention so far has been on the quads, but technically most staterooms can accommodate a 3rd with the foldaway couch, especially with suites, and since I'm solo...this is why I think I'm safer booking with cruise lines that aren't offering deals for 3rds/4ths or kids sail free programs.  Because while bumping/overbooking is not unusual in the industry, it happens occasionally; it does seem like HAL has been above average on this. 

[atexsix]

15 minutes ago, gizmodog said:

I am so upset over this policy, I always choose my cabin and usually pay the extra price for doing so, I never look to see the occupancy as that has never been an issue in the past. I currently have 4  cruises booked with Holland having picked my cabin for all 4.

we re travelling with 3 other couples who have also picked their cabin. So in total we have 4 cabins booked for 4 different cruises.

we are all in a quandary now as this new policy seems very unfair to passengers picking their own cabin for location not how many people it holds.

cruising is becoming too hard to even book these days with all the rules and regulations.

i hate to cancel my vacations but do not want to be moved to a cabin of their choice either!

Particularly when people pay a higher fare to choose their own cabin. Quite a bit more in some cases (upwards of $1,000).

 

I have 3 or 4 HAL bookings for next year I will probably cancel, a couple are with non-refundable deposits, but I don't care. I'm no longer loyal to any cruise line, as they are demonstrating their desire not be loyal to us. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

27 minutes ago, atexsix said:

Particularly when people pay a higher fare to choose their own cabin. Quite a bit more in some cases (upwards of $1,000).

 

 

This has been annoying me for a while, but then I realized we have always paid more to choose our own cabin.

 

HAL has moved that decision step farther down the process. It used to be when they showed available fares, the guarantee option (usually with nonrefundable deposit) was shown at the same time as whatever promo fare was available, with the promo allowing cabin choice. The guarantee was always less expensive.

 

Now, the choice is in two steps--no frills or promo. Next step, whichever option you selected, is where HAL shows the price difference between guarantee and choice.  Somehow, that makes the cost of choosing feel more expensive. I wonder if HAL has done this to make people less inclined to spend the money on cabin choice. The more guarantees they sell, the more control they keep over where people are placed on the ship.

[coolbluegreenseas]

1 hour ago, gizmodog said:

I always choose my cabin and usually pay the extra price for doing so,

That is a very good point. You pay an up charge to pick a specific cabin but can still be bumped because someone else with another person wants it? Dude, the moment you lose the ability to decide where you are on the ship, the least HAL should do is refund that money. Basically, your cabin is only a guarantee and HAL’s business practices are pretty scummy.

 

There are cruise lines that want solo and couples. Take your business there. I know I am.

[coolbluegreenseas]

1 hour ago, gizmodog said:

hate to cancel my vacations but do not want to be moved to a cabin of their choice either!

Don’t cancel, but change it to a more friendly cruise line. The only way HAL (CCL) gets the message that the new policy is a disaster is by taking your money somewhere else.

[cbr663]

1 hour ago, gizmodog said:

I am so upset over this policy, I always choose my cabin and usually pay the extra price for doing so, I never look to see the occupancy as that has never been an issue in the past. I currently have 4  cruises booked with Holland having picked my cabin for all 4.

we re travelling with 3 other couples who have also picked their cabin. So in total we have 4 cabins booked for 4 different cruises.

we are all in a quandary now as this new policy seems very unfair to passengers picking their own cabin for location not how many people it holds.

cruising is becoming too hard to even book these days with all the rules and regulations.

i hate to cancel my vacations but do not want to be moved to a cabin of their choice either!

 

I understand completely.  For us, a bad cabin location is a bad cruise.  I suffer from motion sickness and while I have been lucky so far and never experienced it on a cruise ship, part of that I believe has to do with us selecting mid ship cabins.  

 

When we first started cruising we embraced guarantee cabins.  We were lucky and got some really good upgrades and it was fun to wait to see what cabin would be assigned.  It was great until it wasn't when one cruise we were further aft than I would have liked.  The next cruise we took a chance again and ended up further forward than I ever would have picked and the motion of the ship was quite challenging on that cruise.  From that point onward we decided if we are cruising we are booking our specific cabin and location.  All cruises since we have selected our specific cabin and marked each one as "Do Not Upgrade."  It now seems to sail with HAL we can only do that for an even smaller number of cabins which greatly reduces our options and hence reduces our chances of sailing.

[cbr663]

52 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

....

 

Now, the choice is in two steps--no frills or promo. Next step, whichever option you selected, is where HAL shows the price difference between guarantee and choice.  Somehow, that makes the cost of choosing feel more expensive. I wonder if HAL has done this to make people less inclined to spend the money on cabin choice. The more guarantees they sell, the more control they keep over where people are placed on the ship.

 

This is exactly why they are doing it.  HAL wants to flexibility to place passengers to maximize the number of passengers sailing.  Cruise lines right now are not aiming for 100% capacity, they want capacity far in excess of 100%.

 

I get the reason why - it's profit driven.  Cruise line profits are made from on board spending and the more people onboard the higher the onboard spend.  I also understand the 20/80 rule of business.  20% of your customers provide 80% of your profits.  In this day of analytics it's easy to find those 20% of customers that you need to focus on.  It may be humbling to accept that the majority of us are most likely in the 80% category.  It doesn't mean though that you ignore us or the you treat us poorly and this is what this policy feels like.  Luckily, we have other options.

[VMax1700]

If HAL is going to implement this policy, then why do they charge extra to select your own stateroom?

As you go through the booking process you are offered either 'we select your stateroom' or 'You select your stateroom'  'We Select' is know as a Guarantee and even HAL uses that term on the Booking Confirmation.  

When you chose 'You select your stateroom' you are offered a range of decks and staterooms and all have different levels of additional fare charges.

Now, to my thinking, if HAL offers you a range of staterooms and you accept their offer and select one of these staterooms and pay the additional fare that HAL requests, then they should not move you from that stateroom.

It should be reasonably easy for the HAL booking system to be amended to only offer the staterooms that are available to the number of booked pax.

No matter the terminology of the booking contract, to charge a fee for a product (reserved specific cabin) and then not deliver that product is breach of contract.

 

 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

7 minutes ago, VMax1700 said:

If HAL is going to implement this policy, then why do they charge extra to select your own stateroom?

As you go through the booking process you are offered either 'we select your stateroom' or 'You select your stateroom'  'We Select' is know as a Guarantee and even HAL uses that term on the Booking Confirmation.  

When you chose 'You select your stateroom' you are offered a range of decks and staterooms and all have different levels of additional fare charges.

Now, to my thinking, if HAL offers you a range of staterooms and you accept their offer and select one of these staterooms and pay the additional fare that HAL requests, then they should not move you from that stateroom.

It should be reasonably easy for the HAL booking system to be amended to only offer the staterooms that are available to the number of booked pax.

No matter the terminology of the booking contract, to charge a fee for a product (reserved specific cabin) and then not deliver that product is breach of contract.

 

 

 

 

They're getting around the breach of contract issue by giving people notice about a potential change in cabin if they've booked a cabin with extra beds. But I agree it's a lousy way to do things. Pay extra to get the cabin of your choice, as long as HAL decides you can keep it. The only way for us to avoid potentially being bumped is to book only double cabins if we're couples or solos. Don't book a triple and you shouldn't get moved. 

 

From playing with a few dummy bookings, it seems some online inventory is being managed, at least for balcony cabins, where there are doubles, triples, and quads. A single or double booking shows me double cabins. I have to enter 3 or 4 people to see the triples and quads. For Sig suites and Neptunes, it's letting me see all Neptunes, even if I say it's for 2 people. 

 

[ExArkie]

It is interesting that the cruise contract makes specific mention of refunds for additional money paid for “…a shore excursion, Land Trip, or other activity that is cancelled…” but not for additional money paid to select your cabin. Has anyone who has encountered forced relocation asked for a refund of the fee to select a cabin? Just wondering what HAL’s response would be. 
 

By the way, when I booked our April 2025 transpacific (Signature Suite), the “we choose” and “you choose” options were the same price. Never saw that before. 

[julia]

2 hours ago, cbr663 said:

 

This is exactly why they are doing it.  HAL wants to flexibility to place passengers to maximize the number of passengers sailing.  Cruise lines right now are not aiming for 100% capacity, they want capacity far in excess of 100%.

 

I get the reason why - it's profit driven.  Cruise line profits are made from on board spending and the more people onboard the higher the onboard spend.  I also understand the 20/80 rule of business.  20% of your customers provide 80% of your profits.  In this day of analytics it's easy to find those 20% of customers that you need to focus on.  It may be humbling to accept that the majority of us are most likely in the 80% category.  It doesn't mean though that you ignore us or the you treat us poorly and this is what this policy feels like.  Luckily, we have other options.

While you are correct about the onboard spending, it seems rather counterproductive for HAL to offer 3rd & 4th sail free.  That equals MANY more kids (yes, they pay grats & taxes), who are NOT necessarily spending a lot, but yet may CONSUME a lot. (Have you ever seen some teenagers eat?!)

 

[TRLD]

3 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

This has been annoying me for a while, but then I realized we have always paid more to choose our own cabin.

 

HAL has moved that decision step farther down the process. It used to be when they showed available fares, the guarantee option (usually with nonrefundable deposit) was shown at the same time as whatever promo fare was available, with the promo allowing cabin choice. The guarantee was always less expensive.

 

Now, the choice is in two steps--no frills or promo. Next step, whichever option you selected, is where HAL shows the price difference between guarantee and choice.  Somehow, that makes the cost of choosing feel more expensive. I wonder if HAL has done this to make people less inclined to spend the money on cabin choice. The more guarantees they sell, the more control they keep over where people are placed on the ship.

I suspect that all of the main stream lines would prefer all bookings to be guarantee of a particular class, similar to the hotel industry. It would give them maximum of control of their inventory. Very difficult for them to do so since past tradition has been to select rooms.

 

Even now with this policy you still can, just select the same capacity as your party size.

 

A few months ago the CCL CEO indicated that HAL, Princess, and Costa had not reached their 12% ROCI target. These moves to maximize inventory value by both Princess and HAL now that occupancy has returned to pre covid levels may be related.

[TRLD]

37 minutes ago, julia said:

While you are correct about the onboard spending, it seems rather counterproductive for HAL to offer 3rd & 4th sail free.  That equals MANY more kids (yes, they pay grats & taxes), who are NOT necessarily spending a lot, but yet may CONSUME a lot. (Have you ever seen some teenagers eat?!)

 

If you look at the cruise line holding company filings (NCLH, CCL, RCL) the amount spent on food by the 3 ranges between $15 and $18 per passenger per day, including food for crew. Basically for a given itinerary the costs are pretty much fixed. Far more potental for increasing revenue from onboard spend than any increased food costs.