Norovirus on Ventura (May 2024)

[9265359]

13 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

https://www.hilldickinson.com/insights/media/hill-dickinson-helps-cruise-industry-win-key-norovirus-judgment Upon reading this I can’t see them winning. 

 

In that case the cruise company appeared to have hygiene controls that actually worked and thus allowed them to successfully defend the case.

 

Could P&O successfully claim the same, given that noro has been rampaging through their ships, cruise after cruise after cruise?

[lindyloo22]

We were on Ventura in June and it was the worse cruise we have ever been on. From day 1 you were served with all food in the buffet and also tea and coffee it was a nightmare.  Staff were supposed to clean the tables before you could sit down which didn’t always happen I sometimes wiped our table with detol wipes that I took with me. Food was the worse we have ever had. In the horizon paper it was mentioned every day about washing your hands and the captain mentioned it every time he made announcements norovirus was never mentioned it was always gastrointestinal problems. Just to try and stay safe we tried just to use our own bathroom not always that easy as the toilet decided to either block or not flush, the last straw was when I walked into the bathroom in bare feet and the toilet had overflowed and flooded the floor I spent a lot of time on the phone to reception. We also noticed along the corridor a member of staff outside a cabin with a black wheelie bin, she had face mask gloves and plastic apron on felt sorry for her really. To top it all at the end of the cruise we had to vacate the cabin by 7 in the morning. The only good thing about the cruise is that we both got off safe and never caught anything. I did complain to head office.

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, carlanthony24 said:

See link I posted. Depends how much compensation the claimants would like. Maybe P&O would like it to go to court so if they win for anyone that wants to challenge again will think twice about doing so. P&O followed same protocols that TUI did according to the link. We also don’t know if they are making any other claims…

Reading that case one point in the judgment stands out:

 

"As a matter of fact the judge ruled the ship was not contaminated in any event when the claimants commenced their cruise."

 

Looking at the freedom of Information Information contained in the Southampton Echo article that clearly wouldn't be the case with Ventura as there was considerable illness on previous cruises.

[ace2542]

7 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

The outbreak on Ventura was not confirmed as norovirus, merely described as a gastro intestinal illness.  A good solicitor will use this  as not only one voyage was affected and will say P&O should have been more proactive to confirm the actual illness. They will say an outbreak of this size in a hospital for instance would most likely lead to a ward closure for a full deep clean to eradicate the germs

You can't confirm "noro" WITHOUT actual sample testing and a  full lab culture - which so far as I know the ships DON'T have the ability to do at least onboard?

[Megabear2]

11 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

You can't confirm "noro" WITHOUT actual sample testing and a  full lab culture - which so far as I know the ships DON'T have the ability to do at least onboard?

Correct but on arrival in Southampton on the voyage 500 people had been poorly on, a large number were still unwell and a couple were reportedly hospitalised.  Presumably those who were taken to hospital were tested and I would guess the solicitors will be seeking information regarding those results.  Some of those who were seriously ill no doubt may be among the potential litigants as well.

 

CDC test information can be found here.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/php/laboratories/index.html#:~:text=Whole stool is the preferred,Then immediately refrigerate the samples.

Edited September 5 by Megabear2

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, 9265359 said:

 

Hard to say, as if any cruise company was in a situation that it would not win in court, then I strongly doubt it would let the case get as far as a public judgement as the damage in lost future bookings and cancellations would be far far more costly than anything they paid out to the claimant.

 

Far more likely is that such a case would be settled out of court with an NDA and nobody would ever be able to discover that the payment had been made.

 

And wasn't the Thomson case the one where people had been staying on all inclusive holidays and then claiming that they ate nowhere else and thus it must have been the food on site that had caused them to be ill, but social media posts showed that they had not been telling the truth about being sick.

 

The Thomson court case was a cruise on Thomson Spirit which from the Judges summary was well and truly destroyed. So clearly TUI thought it was important to test the case in the courts  even with the risk of what a loss might do to their reputation.

Of course it was probably helped by the poor view that the judiciary currently have regarding class actions.

[davecttr]

Question, does Ventura have hand washing facilities at the entrances to the buffet and dining rooms? Having contracted Norovirus 4 times on P&O ships I now always wash my hands before entering the dining room.The gel does not kill Norovirus but washing your hands properly removes virus particles and they go down the plug hole!. Then I grab some paper towels and use one to handle the serving implements, also never eat anything that other people could pick up with their hands, or cough/sneeze over.

 

I did catch a stomach bug on Thomson Spirit in Greek waters. They took an anal swab and sent it ashore for testing. The result was not a virus, just a common bacteria so only 36 hours confined to my cabin.

 

Other sources of infecton include NOT confining all cabin occupants, leaving the 'well' ones to spread the contagion around the ship. Then there is the casino, handling cards, chips and machine controls is dangerous so the casino should be closed during an outbreak. At least they could provide a couple of hand washing stations.

[janny444]

25 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Question, does Ventura have hand washing facilities at the entrances to the buffet and dining rooms? Having contracted Norovirus 4 times on P&O ships I now always wash my hands before entering the dining room.The gel does not kill Norovirus but washing your hands properly removes virus particles and they go down the plug hole!. Then I grab some paper towels and use one to handle the serving implements, also never eat anything that other people could pick up with their hands, or cough/sneeze over.

 

I did catch a stomach bug on Thomson Spirit in Greek waters. They took an anal swab and sent it ashore for testing. The result was not a virus, just a common bacteria so only 36 hours confined to my cabin.

 

Other sources of infecton include NOT confining all cabin occupants, leaving the 'well' ones to spread the contagion around the ship. Then there is the casino, handling cards, chips and machine controls is dangerous so the casino should be closed during an outbreak. At least they could provide a couple of hand washing stations.

It does make you wonder if some people are more susceptible in picking up these viruses etc

Jeanlyon  has been on umpteen cruises...used the buffet but yet has never " caught" one of the many nasties that float around the ship. For yourself you have been laid low quite a few times....I think I am remembering correctly that you once had a most unpleasant journey home on a train....apologies if I am confusing you with someone else 🤔 

[Fionboard]

Don't forget, too, that one can get norovirus (and other stomach upsets) whilst ashore, especially when eating in places without washing hands first. Not always started on board. 

[9265359]

3 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

it was probably helped by the poor view that the judiciary currently have regarding class actions.

 

The judiciary have no such view, and in fact the judiciary would far rather deal with a single case rather than waste court time with multiple cases on the same issue.

 

As regards the Tui case, the defence which was accepted was it was noro on a single cruise where the hygiene procedures were adequate to prevent it continuing.

 

And that isn't something that P&O could argue as on their ships the noro is continuing from cruise to cruise to cruise, so clearly their hygiene procedures are not adequate in stopping it.

 

 

[davecttr]

4 hours ago, janny444 said:

It does make you wonder if some people are more susceptible in picking up these viruses etc

Jeanlyon  has been on umpteen cruises...used the buffet but yet has never " caught" one of the many nasties that float around the ship. For yourself you have been laid low quite a few times....I think I am remembering correctly that you once had a most unpleasant journey home on a train....apologies if I am confusing you with someone else 🤔 

Luckily no unpleasant train journey for me but I did come close on my first infection, in Stavanger on Brittania with luckily a sea day. i was last off the ship in Southampton. Then there was Singapore onboard Aurora, again 2 days before arrival. Luckily the ships doctor gave me a letter saying no flying for 48 hours so I was reluctantly put up in a nice hotel. I ended up with compensation on that one.

[bbtablet]

As a matter of interest, is there anyone currently on Ventura who can report the present situation there - is there a perceived outbreak on that cruise or is everything fine?

I only ask because we are on her next!

[SausPud]

1 hour ago, bbtablet said:

As a matter of interest, is there anyone currently on Ventura who can report the present situation there - is there a perceived outbreak on that cruise or is everything fine?

I only ask because we are on her next!

 

I did the Ventura end of July beginning of August. 2 weeks to Canary Islands and no outbreak or signs of virus.

Everything seemed shipshape and clean. Hand sanitizers being used by 95% of passengers as they entered the MDR. There is always the few who think they are above the rules. 

I never do the buffet and don't catch anything either. 

[Snow Hill]

8 hours ago, SausPud said:

 

I did the Ventura end of July beginning of August. 2 weeks to Canary Islands and no outbreak or signs of virus.

Everything seemed shipshape and clean. Hand sanitizers being used by 95% of passengers as they entered the MDR. There is always the few who think they are above the rules. 

I never do the buffet and don't catch anything either. 

Alcohol based hand sanitisers are not effective against Norovirus strains.

[davecttr]

13 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

Alcohol based hand sanitisers are not effective against Norovirus strains.

When you wash your hands the water does not need to be hot, just a comfortable temperature. I had to turn the temperature down many times on my last cruise. To kill Norovirus the water needs to at least 60 degrees which would scald your hands.

 

Whoever develops a hand wash that kills Norovirus is going to make  many many shiploads of money. Apparently somebody did but the active ingredient in pure form could cause skin cancer if you bathed your hands in it daily for a couple of decades.

[yorkshirephil]

12 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

Alcohol based hand sanitisers are not effective against Norovirus strains.

Currently the best product around is Hypochlorous solution which comes in spray form in many size bottles. It does not break down as fast as bleach solution and doesn't smell as bad. It is great for wounds and grazes as well as a sanitiser.

 

I have been using it for years to stop shaving rash getting infected after having several years of getting boils where hair follicles got infected. There is an eye spray for people susceptible to eye infections.

 

I am surprised the cruise lines have not started using this as a sanitiser

 

Always read the label/data sheet before using.

[ace2542]

16 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Correct but on arrival in Southampton on the voyage 500 people had been poorly on, a large number were still unwell and a couple were reportedly hospitalised.  Presumably those who were taken to hospital were tested and I would guess the solicitors will be seeking information regarding those results.  Some of those who were seriously ill no doubt may be among the potential litigants as well.

 

CDC test information can be found here.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/php/laboratories/index.html#:~:text=Whole stool is the preferred,Then immediately refrigerate the samples.

Still be tough to prove you caught it on the ship and not during an excursion. And big legal costs if they lose or is it no win no fee. Plus aren't all the claimants risking being banned for life by P&O/Carnival group. A ban from 7 cruise lines if group wide?

[Devon born and bred]

51 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

Alcohol based hand sanitisers are not effective against Norovirus strains.

Serenity Hygeine hand sanitiser foam, which you can get unscented and has been tested to destroy norovirus and coronavirus within 30 seconds.

[Devon born and bred]

18 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Still be tough to prove you caught it on the ship and not during an excursion. And big legal costs if they lose or is it no win no fee. Plus aren't all the claimants risking being banned for life by P&O/Carnival group. A ban from 7 cruise lines if group wide?

I would not be surprised if people caught something when they go ashore. It never ceases to amaze me the number of times we have visited a bar, seen people order food and proceed to pick it up with their hands without having left their table to wash their hands or at least use hand sanitiser.

[ace2542]

20 minutes ago, Devon born and bred said:

Serenity Hygeine hand sanitiser foam, which you can get unscented and has been tested to destroy norovirus and coronavirus within 30 seconds.

Is it more expensive that the current brand?

[Devon born and bred]

2 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Is it more expensive that the current brand?

I don't know what brand you refer to but I order direct from the Serenity Hygiene website. I did my  research to find the best product I could that suited me. Compared to the cost of cruises price didn't even come into it.

[janny444]

8 minutes ago, Devon born and bred said:

I don't know what brand you refer to but I order direct from the Serenity Hygiene website. I did my  research to find the best product I could that suited me. Compared to the cost of cruises price didn't even come into it.

Had a quick look at the website...prices didn't seem that bad....more expensive than ordinary hand gel...yes...but as its been mentioned ordinary hand gel doesn't work against norovirus this does...or so it claims.

Anyone any more thoughts on Serenity Hygiene ?

[jeanlyon]

17 hours ago, janny444 said:

It does make you wonder if some people are more susceptible in picking up these viruses etc

Jeanlyon  has been on umpteen cruises...used the buffet but yet has never " caught" one of the many nasties that float around the ship. For yourself you have been laid low quite a few times....I think I am remembering correctly that you once had a most unpleasant journey home on a train....apologies if I am confusing you with someone else 🤔 

It's true!   Been cruising since about 2003, never caught anything except a cold once.  AND I do have a sensitive stomach, IBS, etc.   My husband has never caught anything exccept a bad cough either.  So do we just have strong constitutions or what?   And yes always use the buffet for breakfast and lunch.

 

Also, have been on quite a few ships where there was Noro, and they resorted to all the usual precautions.

Edited September 6 by jeanlyon

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, Devon born and bred said:

Serenity Hygeine hand sanitiser foam, which you can get unscented and has been tested to destroy norovirus and coronavirus within 30 seconds.

But if P&O still using alcohol based gels, it might effective against a number of viruses but not against norovirus or rotavirus. Yes there are some alcohol free sanitisers said to work against them, if so why aren’t P&O switching to those if trying to reduce number of on board cases? 

[Devon born and bred]

7 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

But if P&O still using alcohol based gels, it might effective against a number of viruses but not against norovirus or rotavirus. Yes there are some alcohol free sanitisers said to work against them, if so why aren’t P&O switching to those if trying to reduce number of on board cases? 

That's a question for P&O and the reason we carry our travel size Serenity with us around the ship and don't touch any food until we have washed our hands and used it, even after handing a menu back to the waiter in the restaurant we will use it. We are not being over the top, just taking personal responsibility to protect ourselves as best we can. If everyone else did the same would this help reduce infection on board, I don't know, but why chance it.