Still trying to understand why power strips would be banned...

[jimbo5544]

On 9/26/2024 at 3:11 PM, sparks1093 said:

He's probably tired of it and has posted many times in similar threads. Ships are wired differently then buildings are, it all comes down to that. As I understand it the problem is in the surge protector, not the power strip itself, so if one had a power strip that isn't protected it should be allowed (but still might be confiscated).

Agree with all you say, but the tack that RCCL takes is an aggressive one.

Edited 18 hours ago by jimbo5544

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

These are banned. The only kind allowed as someone earlier said are cubes where you plug in usb plugs.  ..the ones like this where you can plug in a plug are banned.

 

My problem is I just bought a cube, a power converter for my Europe hotel room. Still new in the box to plug things into in rome. Converters also apparently are banned. I dont even plan on using it on the ship. So the problem is more complicated. .. but the ones allowed are cubes where you only plug in usb ends... not regular plugs .. at least right now. I think royal needs to back off. This is a step too far. Banning power converter cubes. If they take I I will have to get off and retrieve it. I'm on for 2 legs to complicate retrieving a confiscated item. 

 

The pictured one is banned.

No, it isn't.  I use one.  It is not a surge

[aborgman]

34 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Nope. Not all of them.

 

True - a (not used in homes or ships) 240V, 3 phase circuit would be 4 or 5 wires.

 

...but a code compliant, single phase, 120/240V will have 3.

 

 

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

True - a (not used in homes or ships) 240V, 3 phase circuit would be 4 or 5 wires.

 

...but a code compliant, single phase, 120/240V will have 3.

 

 

 

Moving goal posts?

 

>>> True - but both ignores that every 120/240V circuit has three wires

 

Typically 3, but could also be 2.

 

 

[aborgman]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Typically 3, but could also be 2.

 

 

Not since a few years before I was born, and I'm 50.

[Charles4515]

22 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Not since a few years before I was born, and I'm 50.

New construction required a ground wire since sometime in the early 60’s. Older construction might not have a ground wire. So every circuit might not have 3 wires. 

Edited 16 hours ago by Charles4515

[chengkp75]

21 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Not since a few years before I was born, and I'm 50.

Well, all I can say is that when I moved into my present house (built in 1820's) in the 1980's, not only did we have ungrounded circuits, but tube and knob wiring.

[BlerkOne]

A circuit is a closed loop through which current can flow. A ground, while safer, is not required to fit the definition.

[Diamond-56-Plus]

I guess this is a part of the home-schooling class for Cruise Critic 😎. Please people be careful with what power strips you bring aboard.  I'm thinking portable fans should be the next subject for the class.😉

[BlerkOne]

21 minutes ago, Diamond-56-Plus said:

I guess this is a part of the home-schooling class for Cruise Critic 😎. Please people be careful with what power strips you bring aboard.  I'm thinking portable fans should be the next subject for the class.😉

Many fans were seized on our recent cruise. Including new in box and portable. If in checked luggage and it had a cord, bye bye. Battery powered was okay. For now.

[jimbo5544]

21 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Many fans were seized on our recent cruise. Including new in box and portable. If in checked luggage and it had a cord, bye bye. Battery powered was okay. For now.

On the Spirit?

[BlerkOne]

48 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

On the Spirit?

Yes. The rules also say fans are supposed to be in carry ons.

Edited 13 hours ago by BlerkOne

[jimbo5544]

9 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Yes. The rules also say fans are supposed to be in carry ons.

I replied to soon before actually reading your post…..thought you were saying they were confiscating extension cords also, my bad.

[VentureMan_2000]

Y'all talk like you understand how grounding works.  Other than chengkp75 who is actually an Engineer on a ship, everyone else's opinion here is suspect. 

Grounding is actually not that straightforward as it depends on the circuit, the grounding requirements for the specific line or device, the item or appliance plugged in, and many more considerations.  Grounding on transformer lines is engineered different than at a house, or on an appliance.  

The same will hold true on a ship.  I defer to chengkp75.

[chengkp75]

5 hours ago, VentureMan_2000 said:

Y'all talk like you understand how grounding works.  Other than chengkp75 who is actually an Engineer on a ship, everyone else's opinion here is suspect.

Just to be clear, I don't really disagree with what @aborgman has said, he has parsed some of my comments, as I have his, but these are based on our personal experiences (for instance, I doubt he has any experience with old equipment or systems like we have in the Northeast, or at sea.

[aborgman]

12 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

New construction required a ground wire since sometime in the early 60’s. Older construction might not have a ground wire. So every circuit might not have 3 wires. 

 

1971 is when the NEC required it.

[aborgman]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Just to be clear, I don't really disagree with what @aborgman has said, he has parsed some of my comments, as I have his, but these are based on our personal experiences (for instance, I doubt he has any experience with old equipment or systems like we have in the Northeast, or at sea.

 

Sadly, I've got LOTS of experience with ancient equipment.

 

Our wind tunnel is driven by a motor-generator set that is built from Westinghouse generators that came out of the Detroit streetcar system - the newer of the two is from 1909. Incoming feed is 660V at ~1500A. 

 

...but none of that old stuff is legal for a public accommodation.

 

 

[DeniseTr]

On 9/27/2024 at 6:53 AM, aborgman said:

 

That is... sort of accurate.

 

In a normal house - both hot and neutral carry current, but only hot has voltage relative to "ground". There is a 120V RMS sine wave on hot relative to neutral, with neutral at ground.

 

On a ship - both hot and neutral carry current, and both hot and neutral have voltage relative to "ground". There is a 60V RMS sine on both hot and neutral, 180 degrees out of phase to create a 120V RMS sine wave between hot and neutral.

 

 

 

Interesting. 

Why would they do this? 

[DeniseTr]

On 9/27/2024 at 7:36 AM, mfs2k said:

 

1. There are those who follow rules.

2. There are those who try to break rules.

3. There are those who provide analysis for the rules. 

I used to be a 2.  Now I tend to be a 1. 

Unless I decide the rule is unneccessary, breakable, and inconsequential.

 

I'd add #4. Those who need to understand the reason for the rule to follow it. 

 

I think I'm a combo between 1 & 4. I tend to follow rules, but may fudge around the edges if I think it doesn't make sense or is arbitrary. (For instance, last time I went on RCL I brought my own extension cord, even though their rules said it isn't allowed., and I'm planning on bringing 16oz Rockstars on my upcoming Carnival cruise)

[DeniseTr]

14 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, all I can say is that when I moved into my present house (built in 1820's) in the 1980's, not only did we have ungrounded circuits, but tube and knob wiring.

Interestingly, my house was built in 1962, and outlets all had ground wire, but not a single one was used, I've had to change out the outlets one by one to get that done.

[aborgman]

1 hour ago, DeniseTr said:

Interesting. 

Why would they do this? 

Somewhat technical stuff to follow -

 

The electrical is usually generated with a 3 phase 3 wire delta system (often 450VAC). The voltage is stepped down to the required values. There is no true neutral from the generator, only the grounded hull.

 

Everything is phase to phase voltage. To get 120 volts for lighting and receptacles, they supply 2 legs at 60 volts each.

 

There are a few different reasons behind this floating system -

 

1) allow single phase faults to exist without tripping over current protection and possibly causing unbalanced load on the generator which could cause the generators to shut down (and all that goes with that).

 

2) The DC negative and AC ground are bonded (or should be), tieing the AC ground to AC neutral introduces AC into your DC system. This increases the risk of shock, and galvanic corrosion.

 

It's also commonly used in operating rooms for shock prevention.