Celebrity Error - Build a "Class System" into Your Ships

[leaveitallbehind]

15 hours ago, davejensen70 said:

 

...I'm not interested in what Disney World does. In fact, I think they're on a downward slope, and I'd be surprised if RCI wants to emulate them. Taking something away from their cruise guests, (like the ability to see the front of the ship, or "special privilege seating" in theater) is a bogus move and one that will cost them more than they make in the long run......

I just want to clarify a couple of things.  Royal Caribbean Group (RCG) owns Royal Caribbean International (RCI), Celebrity, and Silversea. Those three cruise lines, while sister companies, are operated independently of each other under the parent company, RCG.

 

I'm guessing when you are indicating RCI in you comments you actually mean RCG, as RCI, the sister cruise line, would have nothing directly to do with the policies determined by Celebrity.  If there is influence with Celebrity's policy decisions, it would come from RCG, the parent company.

 

I realize it's semantics, but I just want to be sure who's who is clear.

Edited yesterday at 04:16 PM by leaveitallbehind

[retiredtraveler70]

15 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Am I required to wear a "polo" shirt.  Asking for a friend. 😉

 

How about taking this to a side conversation or email instead of hijacking a thread about another, important topic?

[retiredtraveler70]

45 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

In this thread, you sound more than a bit bitter (riff-raff?) about your last Celebrity experience.  But all of your observations have been discussed here repeatedly for years.  Theatre seating, no front of ship viewing, etc.  Were you expecting different (if you follow these boards)?  Maybe another cruise line is in the cards?

 

Rick, I'm not bitter, as we had a nice cruise. I certainly learned something about my choice of cruise lines, however, and I will use this forum and other social media to draw out comments from those who agree (there are certainly many) and perhaps -- just perhaps -- someone in executive management will read them and take action. The "priority seating" in the theater is not a big deal evidently for those who have it (based on this thread - I don't follow the "boards") but it is a BIG deal when you walk in and some security guy warns you that there are more exclusive customers who get first choice of the seats they have roped off. (This despite their auditorium-wide announcements about "the saving of seats is not allowed." What a joke THAT is!)

[kabmab]

18 hours ago, davejensen70 said:

 There were no "seats to the sides," as those were taken up by Celebrity cruisers who were not permitted to sit in the roped off zones. We ended up with standard chairs that had been brought in against the back wall -- with no view whatsoever of the stage.

So you didn't arrive early enough to find seats on first floor or to the side in the balcony.  We never have problems finding good unreserved seats by arriving before the theater fills up.

 

As bothered as you are about your experience, take yourself in a positive direction by trying out someone other than Celebrity.

[canderson]

30 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

I just want to clarify a couple of things.  Royal Caribbean Group (RCG) owns Royal Caribbean International (RCI), Celebrity, and Silversea. Those three cruise lines, while sister companies, are operated independently of each other under the parent company, RCG.

 

...

 

I realize it's semantics, but I just want to be sure who's who is clear.

The semantics became a bit more important with the current leader at Celebrity.  I say 'leader' to note that the new person sitting in that chair is now 'demoted' to President and is no longer also CEO of the brand.  Lutoff-Perlo was indeed the CEO, a position that usually indicates some responsibility for strategic planning.  A 'President' is more typically expected to execute the strategy that is built at a higher level of the organization.  In other words, it would appear that RCG has pulled back much more decision making to the RCG boardroom than was previously allowed.  Don't think for a moment that the change in job title doesn't send a message.

 

[leaveitallbehind]

12 minutes ago, davejensen70 said:

The "priority seating" in the theater is not a big deal evidently for those who have it (based on this thread - I don't follow the "boards") but it is a BIG deal when you walk in and some security guy warns you that there are more exclusive customers who get first choice of the seats they have roped off. (This despite their auditorium-wide announcements about "the saving of seats is not allowed." What a joke THAT is!)

Not challenging your opinion but curious with an analogy.  If you fly coach, does it bother you to not have the seat selection location in first or business class when you purchase and fly in coach with the airlines? 

 

BTY, the saving of seats on the ship also applies to those reserved in the roped off areas.

Edited yesterday at 05:00 PM by leaveitallbehind

[Lastdance]

You definitely need to try a different line in the future, so you can compare.  We usually book suites, but pricing has gone through the roof.  My hubby gets leg cramps, so rarely have we sat in those reserved seats.  Also, we like the suite for the larger cabins, but trying Oceania next year for a change.  Feeling “special” for me is more about feeling blessed to have choices available and money saved from working hard for many, many years.  I Was also very frustrated on Beyond in the Caribbean, last year, even though a suite was our choice!  That led me to book Oceania.  All of us have concerns, but we also have the element of choice to see what’s next door, so to speak!

 

[leaveitallbehind]

4 minutes ago, canderson said:

The semantics became a bit more important with the current leader at Celebrity.  I say 'leader' to note that the new person sitting in that chair is now 'demoted' to President and is no longer also CEO of the brand.  Lutoff-Perlo was indeed the CEO, a position that usually indicates some responsibility for strategic planning.  A 'President' is more typically expected to execute the strategy that is built at a higher level of the organization.  In other words, it would appear that RCG has pulled back much more decision making to the RCG boardroom than was previously allowed.  Don't think for a moment that the change in job title doesn't send a message.

 

No argument with what you say.  I was only defining the distinction between RCI and RCG as it would apply to the possible influence of decisions with Celebrity.

[markeb]

13 minutes ago, canderson said:

The semantics became a bit more important with the current leader at Celebrity.  I say 'leader' to note that the new person sitting in that chair is now 'demoted' to President and is no longer also CEO of the brand.  Lutoff-Perlo was indeed the CEO, a position that usually indicates some responsibility for strategic planning.  A 'President' is more typically expected to execute the strategy that is built at a higher level of the organization.  In other words, it would appear that RCG has pulled back much more decision making to the RCG boardroom than was previously allowed.  Don't think for a moment that the change in job title doesn't send a message.

 

 

Thank you. This gets overlooked constantly on this board. See the discussion about Park West on another thread. She has an operations background. LLP appeared to actually set strategy. A lot of folks around here didn't care for her direction, but she used that authority. And the message being sent now appears to be make money. Even if it destroys the unique value proposition of Celebrity. And none of us know what Celebrity's financials look like; those are internal to RCG.

Edited yesterday at 05:08 PM by markeb
Typos, missing words, writing too fast...

[leaveitallbehind]

22 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Thank you. This gets overlooked constantly on this board. See the discussion about Park West on another thread. She has an operations background. LLP appeared actually set strategy. A lot of folks around here didn't care for her direction, but it she used that authority. And the message being sent appears to be make money. Even if it destroys the unique value proposition of Celebrity. And none of us know what Celebrity's financials look like; those are internal to RCG.

Not just Celebrity.  RCI without a doubt since Michael Bayley has been leading them his absolute mantra has been an unabashed focus on the bottom line as publicly stated on their investors report.  Wouldn't surprise me if that would be similar with Celebrity.  And as likely led from RCG, probably with good reason, starting with the $250 million investment in 2019 with Perfect Day, whose ROI was interrupted with the pandemic, which in of itself cost RCG billions in revenue.  While doing quite well today, it has been long recovery for RCG and the cruise industry in general.

 

You can follow the investors report and track the current financial health of RCG and its subsidiary's on Wall Street.

Edited yesterday at 05:22 PM by leaveitallbehind

[retiredtraveler70]

39 minutes ago, kabmab said:

So you didn't arrive early enough to find seats on first floor or to the side in the balcony.  We never have problems finding good unreserved seats by arriving before the theater fills up.

 

As bothered as you are about your experience, take yourself in a positive direction by trying out someone other than Celebrity.

 

As you'd find in another post, I mentioned that we arrive 20-30 minutes in advance. Always have. So, if you are a Celebrity fan-boy and believe that they do nothing wrong, keep cruising only on X. Personally, I loved the cruise line but believe they are making some easily correctable errors and if people don't tell them about it, it would never change.

[canderson]

25 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

No argument with what you say.  I was only defining the distinction between RCI and RCG as it would apply to the possible influence of decisions with Celebrity.

And my post was to question how "independently" any of these lines operate.  The recent removal of the CEO in the Celebrity job title would appear to signal even less independence now than existed prior to the new president taking over.

[retiredtraveler70]

34 minutes ago, Lastdance said:

You definitely need to try a different line in the future, so you can compare.  We usually book suites, but pricing has gone through the roof.  My hubby gets leg cramps, so rarely have we sat in those reserved seats.  Also, we like the suite for the larger cabins, but trying Oceania next year for a change.  Feeling “special” for me is more about feeling blessed to have choices available and money saved from working hard for many, many years.  I Was also very frustrated on Beyond in the Caribbean, last year, even though a suite was our choice!  That led me to book Oceania.  All of us have concerns, but we also have the element of choice to see what’s next door, so to speak!

 

 

Glad to hear that even Suite customers are noting BEYOND's issues.  We cruise 4-5 times a year and while it has been primarily Celebrity, it's been  spread between others and some not RCG lines.  Nothing is as weird as a security guy telling you to go find another seat -- the "riff-raff" statement used in this thread came from someone else, not me, but I agree with him or her. That's how we felt.

[phoenix_dream]

21 hours ago, davejensen70 said:

 

I'm not interested in what Disney World does. In fact, I think they're on a downward slope, and I'd be surprised if RCI wants to emulate them. Taking something away from their cruise guests, (like the ability to see the front of the ship, or "special privilege seating" in theater) is a bogus move and one that will cost them more than they make in the long run. We cruise all the time and this is the first time anyone has stopped me from sitting anywhere I want in the theater when I show up 30 minutes in advance. Basically, they're saying "You are riff-raff and we won't have you sitting in the seats reserved for our better guests." Then, moments later they make an announcement that "the saving of seats is forbidden."  

I think that's a significant overreaction. They're not basically saying you're riff-raff. They're saying certain people paid a heck of a lot more for their cruise than you did so they have a small section reserved for them. I personally don't even like those seats but that's neither here nor there. I've sailed in all classes from inside to Royal Suite (once) and of all the changes I haven't liked over the years this one seems very minor to me. Obviously it means a lot to you. You are so very bothered by this I guess your only real option is to cruise elsewhere.  As long as they are getting crazy $$ and selling out all their suites as they are now, no amount of complaining is going to change their strategy. 

[retiredtraveler70]

14 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

As long as they are getting crazy $$ and selling out all their suites as they are now, no amount of complaining is going to change their strategy. 

 

I don't think that Suite passengers especially enjoy the reserved seating. At least the ones who have commented here or in other online fora. You're clearly a person who just rolls over, and my family will not do that. We have each family member posting queries about this in their social media, Mom Dad and Kids and it's very interesting that we seem to have tapped into something that many people have felt but not said anything about. If we all just roll over, corporations like this will make all kinds of decisions without getting passenger input. My guess is that RCG made these changes without any kind of consumer marketing circle -- they just put in the ropes and said "let's see what happens." A successful business, ESPECIALLY a cruise line, is a partnership between the business and the loyal customer. You start upsetting that particular apple cart and the cart will fall over. 

Edited 20 hours ago by davejensen70

[phoenix_dream]

9 minutes ago, davejensen70 said:

 

I don't think that Suite passengers especially enjoy the reserved seating. At least the ones who have commented here or in other online fora. You're clearly a person who just rolls over, and my family will not do that. We have each family member posting queries about this in their social media, Mom Dad and Kids and it's very interesting that we seem to have tapped into something that many people have felt but not said anything about. If we all just roll over, corporations like this will make all kinds of decisions without getting passenger input. My guess is that RCG made these changes without any kind of consumer marketing circle -- they just put in the ropes and said "let's see what happens." A successful business, ESPECIALLY a cruise line, is a partnership between the business and the loyal customer. You start upsetting that particular apple cart and the cart will fall over. 

I am not by any means a person who just rolls over as you say and I find that comment insulting.  I am a person who is realistic about what change I can and cannot impact. I have contacted Celebrity about a number of issues in recent times, all of which were modified based on my and others input.  I feel this issue,  however,  will not be addressed in a way to satisfy you based on logical reasoning.  If you want to continue addressing it that's your choice of course.  I will no longer choose to debate it with you.

[retiredtraveler70]

1 minute ago, phoenix_dream said:

I am not by any means a person who just rolls over as you say and I find that comment insulting.  I am a person who is realistic about what change I can and cannot impact. I have contacted Celebrity about a number of issues in recent times, all of which were modified based on my and others input.  I feel this issue,  however,  will not be addressed in a way to satisfy you based on logical reasoning.  If you want to continue addressing it that's your choice of course.  I will no longer choose to debate it with you.

 

Of course we will continue to address it. It sucks, and there CAN be a resolution if those who don't like the feeling express themselves. You don't care, and that's fine -- your opinion only and no intent here to insult you. This was a very critical part of our trip, when a Celebrity person made us feel like low life and I watched him do that to others as well. It's also been addressed in a letter to RCG management. You had some action on your issues with Celebrity . . . won't you please let my family pursue ours?  Thanks.

[tscoffey]

On 10/4/2024 at 6:04 PM, davejensen70 said:

that there is some amorphous class of passenger who deserves my seat.

Well, it isn’t “your seat”. Celebrity can reserve their seats (and rooms, and restaurants) for anyone they choose. That they do this based on how much someone is willing to pay is business 101.

 
Pay more if you want it (I don’t).

If/when enough passengers balk at paying for these things, they will cease to charge more for it (more business 101).

[canderson]

42 minutes ago, davejensen70 said:

 

I don't think that Suite passengers especially enjoy the reserved seating. At least the ones who have commented here or in other online fora.

Yeah, that does seem to be a frequent comment.  Guess the bummer is that the seats you were denied were not particularly good ones.

???

 

[markeb]

31 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I am not by any means a person who just rolls over as you say and I find that comment insulting.  I am a person who is realistic about what change I can and cannot impact. I have contacted Celebrity about a number of issues in recent times, all of which were modified based on my and others input.  I feel this issue,  however,  will not be addressed in a way to satisfy you based on logical reasoning.  If you want to continue addressing it that's your choice of course.  I will no longer choose to debate it with you.

 

I'm not going back and re-reading everything, and I'm with @phoenix_dream that I'm out of this thread. You're irritated that you showed up early and seats were blocked off. Everyone has told you the whole trick is to NOT show up early and you'll get those seats as most of us (at least Retreat passengers) don't want them. You're bummed out because you couldn't get bad seats that were reserved? Please just stop. 

[retiredtraveler70]

31 minutes ago, tscoffey said:

Well, it isn’t “your seat”. Celebrity can reserve their seats (and rooms, and restaurants) for anyone they choose. That they do this based on how much someone is willing to pay is business 101.

 
Pay more if you want it (I don’t).

If/when enough passengers balk at paying for these things, they will cease to charge more for it (more business 101).

 

Good point that it is Celebrity's seat, but that whole theater in the past had "no saving of seats is allowed" as the overriding dictum. They broke that rule themselves by stepping in with ropes and security personnel to enforce the "upper class" policy they'd initiated on that ship. It used to be for Chic nights only --- I can handle that. On this voyage, it was nightly.

[retiredtraveler70]

34 minutes ago, canderson said:

Yeah, that does seem to be a frequent comment.  Guess the bummer is that the seats you were denied were not particularly good ones.

???

 

 

Not on this ship on that sailing . . . the entire center section, lower level, looked to be roped off. They brought in some regular chairs to go around the sides on the back of the theater, and those are the seats they directed us to.

[retiredtraveler70]

27 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

I'm out of this thread. You're bummed out because you couldn't get bad seats that were reserved? Please just stop. 

You didn't read much, that's for sure. What "bad seats" were reserved? All the prime areas were roped off -- NIGHTLY. 

[markeb]

11 minutes ago, davejensen70 said:

You didn't read much, that's for sure. What "bad seats" were reserved? All the prime areas were roped off -- NIGHTLY. 

 

Yes. I've sat in those seats (balcony). They're not that good. Try it next time. Just show up 10 minutes before the show. They're hardly "prime" and they're not really comfortable.

 

To quote Spock:

 

“Having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical but often true.” – Spock (Amok Time, Star Trek TOS)

Edited 18 hours ago by markeb

[RichYak]

7 hours ago, davejensen70 said:

I'm not bitter

Most if not all of your comments in this thread would indicate otherwise.