dreadful cruise on Rotterdam

[notion]

I don't know whether anyone reported already from this cruise but I just got back from the 3/20 - 4/12 HAL -cruise on the Rotterdam to South America.

I'm sorry to say but it was a complete desaster. They still have not been able to get rid of the virus ( they call it stomach flu or GI) they have been cruising with (to my knowledge) for months already. A great number of passengers and crew fell ill, there were sanatizers everywhere, self-service was non-existant but you had to ask for everything, you didn't even have a bread-basket at the table but the assistant waiter went round and handed out bread and butter with tongues. It got so bad that Entertainment and Spa staff was places at the buffet to hand out the food because so many of the crew were ill or quarantined. If you feel ill as a passenger you had to report it to the front desk and you and your cabin mates had to stay in your state room at least until 24 hours after the last occurrence of a symptom.

Only people who fell ill were reimbursed for the shore excursions they missed, for healthy but quarentined cabin mates it was just "bad luck".

Really fantastic was it when the toilets broke as well and nothing worked for a few hours (with a "stomach flu" on board).

Actually in my cabin the toilet broke another time again, the same happended with the AC in every cabin of the corridor my suite was in. It took over 12 hours to fix and at that stage we already were in very hot and humid areas and the cabin was just as warm as the outside.

I completely understand that the crew was totally miserable and that friendly, talkative staff was the exception to the rule. I wouldn't want to work on the ship either!

That the printer broke down and we only received paper copies instead of coloured daily programs for over a week didn't bother me that much but I was very disappointed in the shore excursions. There was so much waiting and sitting around involved, I often felt the staff was organizing tours for the first time. And what are these "little walking men" for, that are supposed to indicate how strenuous or easy a tour is? They were a doddle, pretty much all of them, even the ones with three men walking. I really felt cheated and basically went to every gym class there was because I spent so much time sitting on a bus during shore excursions. (At least the gym and the staff at the gym was a plus, I'd have jumped over board otherwise.)

Okay, I realize that the entertainment (Apart from the movies) was not to my taste is probably down to my age, but all in all I can say that I have never been so disappointed by a cruise or so angry with a cruise line. I mean needless to say that they ran out of HAL tiles, too, which they will allegedly send to our home address now.

I cannot imagine ever going on a a HAL ship ever again! Especially not after the crew was told to tell the passengers the ship would be desinfected in Rio and then I see one of the singers doing the job and hear from people that there beds had already been set up for the new passengers although they hadn't disembarked yet. That way they are never going to get rid of the virus! The ship needs to be evacuated and cleaned by professionals and before that hasn't happened my opinion of HAL will remain very veeeery low.

In my eyes they are just out for the money and don't care about the passengers', let alone, the crew's health to a dangerous degree. Disgusting!

 

notion

[notion]

Oh I forgot - the hot tubs remained closed throughout the whole trip, the pool was only opened the day before Buenos Aires I think, many of the library services, such as DVD and CD rental for example, were discontinued and if you fell ill you were asked not to use the spa treatments and facilities for at least 72 hours after the last time a symptom occurred.

Ok, it was all for a good reason - but still... In the end they just werent't consequent enough with their actions or it would never have gone that far.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Notion:

 

Sorry to hear about your cruise. You might be interested in the attached link, which I have "borrowed" from a post on the Celebrity board. There is a sobering live thread on the Celebrity board which details the horrendous ongoing situation on Mercury. Unfortunately, illness on board appears to be an issue all the cruise lines have to deal with at one time or another.

 

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/outbreaks2006.html

[notion]

Thanks fot the link but - you know - I actually read it before I went on the cruise and because of that was particularly careful, almost paranoid. Still I got it, so did my dad and my mum fell ill, too.

This was my fifth cruise and my parents' seventh - maybe we were just lucky until now but still I blame HAL and their imcompetence. I'm convinced that just like on the Mercury the virus was already on board when we embarked. I spoke to someone who's constantly been on the Rotterdam and he said it's been like that since January!!

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Notion:

 

Because I am a cruise "newbie", I would very much like to hear from you whether you think the perils of cruise travel outweigh the enjoyment. How do others feel? I don't mean to "hijack" this thread; but I wonder, considering Notion's cruise experience, how do other people who have cruised frequently view situations like this? Would it turn you off cruising in the future?

[RuthC]

... how do other people who have cruised frequently view situations like this? Would it turn you off cruising in the future?

I guess that's hard to say until you're faced with it. I know sail7seas has posted numerous times how careful she is, she did contract the illness on a cruise, and isn't here to post about it now as she's on a cruise! Didn't stop her.

I think that since NLV is so prevalent everywhere I would consider it just dumb luck and continue cruising.

I notice that most of notion's negativity centers around those very precautions taken to prevent further spread of the virus. The lack of self-service, rolls passed out, pool closed, confinment to quarters, etc. are all attempts to contain the illness. HAL could do no less; I would not find fault with that.

I don't remember reading of widespread and longlasting NLV on the Rotterdam on this board. Could have missed it, I suppose. Could be getting very forgetful.

Does anyone else remember reading that NLV has been a problem on the Rotterdam since January?

[kryos]

I hate to say it ... but you pays your money and you take your chances with a cruise. A cruise ship is a closed environment ... just like a school or an office building. But unlike a school or an office building, you can't really "escape" a cruise ship, so if the virus takes hold of the sailing population, it's very difficult to cleanse it for the duration of the cruise. I do know that what the cruise lines do when they pull into home port after a particularly bad bout of nurovirus onboard is that they "fog" the ship after everyone is off ... blow some disinfectants through the ship's ventilation system to kill off all the bugs. But obviously during the progress of a voyage ... with all the passengers onboard even while in some ports ... it is impossible to do this. They have to wait until turnaround day at the end of the cruise.

 

I was on one cruise that suffered this problem, and while I personally did not get sick on that cruise, many others did ... and they were confined to their cabins, I believe for 48 hours. I know the medical staff was providing treatment for these symptoms at absolutely no cost to the passengers (I guess to encourage them to report symptoms), and I am sure missed shore excursions were reimbursed, but beyond that what else could the cruise line do other than try to make people as comfortable as possible? Of course, on that cruise, the Captain even implored the passengers to take extra care to wash their hands frequently, and we were told that there would be no self-service for the rest of the cruise ... meaning that we would have to be patient with delays since the staff would have to serve all of our food ... from bread to packets of salt and pepper.

 

As for service not being up to par, of course it's difficult to provide top notch service when lots of the crew are also confined to their cabins with the virus ... and the remaining healthy ones are being stretched to the limit having to do the jobs of multiple people, not to mention serve passengers every food item. And, as for things breaking down, toilets not working for a couple of hours or air conditioning going out ... that can happen on any voyage ... the ship's engineers just do their best to get those problems fixed ASAP.

 

Like I said, it's a shame your cruise turned out to be a downer ... and believe me, I am not making light of it ... a cruise is a major investment and when one doesn't turn out perfect, it's very frustrating ... but it's really just the luck of the draw and in this case, your luck just didn't hold out.

 

Betcha if you try another cruise at some point in the future, you'll find the experience 180 degrees different.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[SDHALFAN]

Notion:

 

Because I am a cruise "newbie", I would very much like to hear from you whether you think the perils of cruise travel outweigh the enjoyment. How do others feel? I don't mean to "hijack" this thread; but I wonder, considering Notion's cruise experience, how do other people who have cruised frequently view situations like this? Would it turn you off cruising in the future?

 

 

Absolutely not MAM (:) ). To quote an article in tomorrow's Travel section of the San Diego Union/Tribune (I buy the "bulldog edition" on Saturdays): "with 23 million cases in the United States annually; the novovirus - which many mistakenly call stomach flu - is almost as common as the common cold, said David Forney, chief of the Vessel Sanitation Program (run by the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta).

 

In the great scheme of things, this illness is benign - it's not life-threatening" Forney said. "But it is uncomfortable and very infectious and can spread rapidly in a closed space, like a cruise ship.

 

It can also spread in a nursing home, a college dorm, in hotels, elementary schools, day-cares and theme parks. But the cruise-ship industry is the only one in our society required by law to report such outbreaks. And that makes news".

 

On my last cruise, back in January I was extremely careful to wash my hands and use the hand-sanitizers constantly. I believe that there was a small outbreak of the novovirus on the cruise but I never contracted the virus (in fact I have never contracted the virus on any of my cruises). I did, however, come home with a very bad case of bronchitis - and I remember the woman that so generously shared it with me.:rolleyes: I saw her coughing and hacking all over the ship and not once did she have the common courtesy to cover her mouth while coughing and hacking away. I felt so sorry for her because she was extremely uncomfortable but the feelings of sorrow lessened and lessened the more I got sick.

 

I never once thought of sueing or blaming the cruiseline because they had a "diseased" person on board, spreading germs. People will get sick and often because of someone elses total disregard for their fellow creatures' well-being, but let's face it: one can pick up germs anywhere. Have you ever seen the reports of what's lurking on the handles of the carts you use at the Supermarket? Omigawd:eek:

 

I'm going to keep on happily cruising and if I get sick, then I get sick. It could so easily happen at home (and if it did I wouldn't have the benefit of someone to make my bed, clean my bathroom, deliver room service once I got to feeling better, etc.).

 

Just relax and enjoy your cruise.

 

Valerie:)

[Navy_Chief]

Just today it was reported in the news at a nursing home. Do you stop going out of your house at the outbreak of flu season? I don't, can't affoed to. It's like anything else in life, there are those annoying uncomfortable bumps in the road as it were. I'm not making light of your situation or the fact that you are unhappy but I don't think HAL does anything different than any other line when it comes down to it. I am surprised that there was an outbreak on Rotterdam since January and it went completely unposted here.

[Juanita462]

Valerie - I get so ticked when people don't cover their mouths when they cough - or worse, cough into their hands and then touch the elevator buttons, railings etc. I was at costco the other day and the cashier kept coughing into his hands so I asked him to use some hand sanitizer before handling our goods. He did not like it but no way was I going to take his germs home with me.

 

When I was researching norovirus they suggested that this can even be coughed into the air and inhaled by unsuspecting people.

 

However I do think that the cruise companies have a responsibility too and should even delay sailing for a couple of hours in order to sanitize the ship. It doesn't seem fair to bring on a bunch of new passengers when noro is already on board and many are sure to be infected. Both times we have been on board when it was present it started with the crew.

[localady]

IMHO the biggest problem with travel is that you are confined into small spaces. I would say appx 25% of the time when I fly, I get some kind of bronchial infection after. I have also been ill on cruises, but on 2 occasions I think it was more a symptom at our pre-cruise long distance flights.:rolleyes:

Wash you hands, wash you hands, and cover your mouth!! If in fact this dreaded Bird flu comes to pass, we will all be a bit more prepared!:eek:

[bluecadet]

... you didn't even have a bread-basket at the table but the assistant waiter went round and handed out bread and butter with tongues.

notion

 

Aha! The source of the virus!

 

I am not making fun of the OP or the typo; it just struck me funny considering the thread topic.

[Scrumpy]

We were ill on our Zui cruise last year and HAL was conscientious in caring for us and in cleaning our cabin. We didn't have norovirus; we were a little too daring (or too trusting) with a meal in Mexico. (We always get sick in Mexico). HAL sent a special cleaning team to our cabin. Looking back, I realize they did this before our symptoms had subsided and while we were still under quarantine, so maybe it wasn't terribly effective but they tried. These guys seemed to be pretty thorough and they were well-protected in white coveralls and rubber gloves! Have other quarantined passengers had the cleaners come to their rooms during or after their illness? In our case, we relapsed the last night of the cruise and I called the front office to alert them. DH actually stayed sick for months, so he picked up something very nasty that didn't go away without further medical intervention.

 

It helps to be careful and wash your hands, etc., but sometimes we get sick anyway, even on land. Think of all the germ-ridden things we touch; there's too many to list. It doesn't keep me locked in the house and it won't keep me from cruising or going on other vacations.

[notion]

Aha! The source of the virus!

 

I am not making fun of the OP or the typo; it just struck me funny considering the thread topic.

 

I'm sorry about the mistake, I meant tongs. As I'm German my English spelling is not always perfect. And I'm too lazy to check my posts before sending them. :D

 

In any case - I did not expect a perfect cruise. I have been on many cruises and I think it's normal that small things go wrong. That would never spoil a cruise experience for me.

 

But I was upset that for example I was reimbursed for the shore excursions but my parents because of the quarantine being confined to the suite just like me weren't. When my parents -one after the other- fell ill I was quarantined again but only the sick party was reimbursed.

I know people who were quarantined for about 9 out of 16 days. You really want to tell them "bad luck but that's what happens on a cruise"?

 

Also - what's the point of handing out salt etc. by a crew member with plastic gloves when for example the bagel guy would always touch passengers' hands with his gloved hand.

Also - what about the chairs? I didn't dare touch the arms but always used my feet to push the chairs away from the table and back. And the menus in the dining room? We were allowed to touch those and I'm not sure they were sanitized over and over again. Same goes for the pens that were used to sign the bills.

And why could one still borrow books from the library but not CDs or DVDs? I believe plastic is a lot easier to sanatize than paper. (Although the books or better their covers were all wiped down with sanitizing wipes and then locked up.)

 

I just did not find HAL's actions consequent enough.

On land I never catch a virus, neither gastro- nor respiratory, despite my going to school (confined space). But I must admit the public lavatories at my college are a lot cleaner than those on the Rotterdam. On the shp I always went back to my suite, at least our cabin steward did a good job in cleaning.

 

To answer middle-age-mum's question - of course I will cruise again.

But not with HAL and not without taking medication and sanitizing wipes with me. Everyone I have spoken to, agrees with me in that. And there were a lot of people who had been on twenty or more cruises but had never experienced these problems. None of them believed that such a high number of sick passengers and crew (I'm not sure but I'd say we're talking about 50%) are just part of the deal. And I just cked on cruise fanatic again and indeed they were reports in January about a virus outbreak... By the way this was also the first time I ever had to fill out a health questionnaire before embarkation. Yeah, like it's the passengers bringing the stuff onboard...

[notion]

These guys seemed to be pretty thorough and they were well-protected in white coveralls and rubber gloves! Have other quarantined passengers had the cleaners come to their rooms during or after their illness?

 

There was one guy in overalls and with plastic gloves and a mask over his mouth and nose who came once a day during our quarantines and changed all the bedding etc. But during the day we would have to call the cabin steward to sanitize the bathroom. I was really worried he would catch the virus in the end. But maybe he was only a carrier... I don't know.

In any case the sanitizing of the cabin didn't help. My dad fell ill at least a week after I did and my mum about three days after him.

[Roz]

Damned if they do and damned if they don't....if cruiselines (not just HAL) don't put sanitary procedures in place, they're criticized, but when they do, passengers call their cruise "dreadful" or "horrific".

 

Not being able to get a roll from the breadbasket on your own may be inconvenient, but it's not "dreadful".

 

I'm sorry you encountered this nasty bug on your cruise. It can, and does, happen on every ship and every cruise line. Blame your fellow passengers for bringing it onboard.

 

Roz

[Krazy Kruizers]

We just got home from the Amsterdam. The Norvo virus was already on the ship when we got on her on March 22. I will be writing a report about it.

 

I just read in the news yesterday that 3 people died from the Norvovirus in Washington - and they weren't on a cruise ship.

[Rebecca J]

On our recent cruise on the Volendam, we did fill out a pre cruise questionnaire they were using to determine which passengers might be sick at time of embarkation.

 

Also, throughout the ship there were Purell sanitizer containers. That product has been shown to reduce germs better than handwashing. Most of the passengers were availing themselves of it when going into the dining room and when returning to the ship. That is extremely important. We touch things constantly without even being aware. The stair rails on the way to dinner for example. Then sit down and pick up rolls and place them directly in our mouths.

 

The ships need our cooperation in not arriving sick. Perhaps they should have a refund if you have a stomach virus on the day of the cruise that can be documented by a doctor. Who wants to go on a lovely cruise only to be confined to quarters.

 

It is a bothersome problem, but not something that should cause anyone to not cruise. It should only ensure that we are careful with sanitizing methods.

 

RebeccaJ

[BruceMuzz]

According to CDC, 23,000,000 Americans suffered form Norwalk Vurus last year. That's about 10% of the American population.

 

Note: Approximately 22,999,000 of those people who had Norwalk last year were NOT on a cruise ship.

 

CDC Reported that about 10% of the Rotterdam's passengers suffered from Norwalk. That's the same percentage of the population that suffered at home. Is anyone surprised????

[OldCodger73]

I just read in the news yesterday that 3 people died from the Norvovirus in Washington - and they weren't on a cruise ship.

 

To put things in perspective, these were three elderly patients in a nursing home. All had other serious conditions prior to catching the Norvovirus. The virus itself didn't kill them but was the contributing factor that triggered their deaths.

[gizmo]

I am sorry to hear you got sick. As others stated this virus is all over the place, not just cruise ships.

 

I do agree Hal should have reimbursed anyone confined to their cabin for shore exrcusions.

 

A couple of words on how Hal handles things on the ship. I was on the ship a couple of years ago when a handful of people got sick. Whenever this occurs certain procedures are followed.

 

• Salt and pepper shakers are removed from the tables. You get packets instead.
  
• The baskets of rolls and bread are removed. Your waiter will provided all the rolls you want, just ask.
  
• There is no self service in the Lido. To be honest I wish they would always do this. People picking through food drives me crazy.
  
• The ENTIRE staff works to try and disinfect the ship. THIS ENCLUDES EVERYONE, INCLUDING ENTERTAINERS. They all work as a team when something like this happens.
  
• The hot tubs close.
  
• When the ship returns to port, more than likely a sanitizing team come on board.

We had no problem with any of these procedures and it did not make our cruise any different than others that had no virus. We did not get sick, which I am thankful for. The number that were sick was low and I don't recall if any crew was sick. I do realize on your cruise this was not the case and many crew members were sick.

 

Occasionally a ship will have a cruise cancelled for super cleaning. This has taken place a couple of times but only when the numbers were VERY high and the numbers continued to increase with each cruise.

[katybird]

"assistant waiter went round and handed out bread and butter with tongues." by OP

 

No wonder everyone was sick..

sorry, I could not resist!

[katybird]

Seriously, this sounds like a terrrible ordeal. I hope your next cruise is better!