Our Much Loved "S" Class Ships.....??

[sail7seas]

How many more years do you think we'll be able to love sailing on them? HAL has certainly taken excellent care of them and they appear to us to be in great condition but realistically.......

 

How many more years do you think we'll have Statendam, Maasdam, Ryndam and Veendam?

 

They came into the fleet in that order. Do you think they'll phase them out one by one when the time comes?

[mrskmirolla]

I was trying to remember when they phased our the MS Niew Amsterdam, she was our very first.

 

Kathy

[bruceh4]

I was trying to remember when they phased our the MS Niew Amsterdam, she was our very first.

 

Kathy

Food for thought and discussion!:D The Nieuw Amsterdam III was in service from 1983 to 2000. That is 17 years and my be a key to what happens next. The Statendam joined the fleet in 1992, Maasdam 1993, Ryndam 1994 and the Veendam 1996. So now for the speculation, how about the Statendam being replaced in 2008 at 16 years of age by one of the new Signature class ships. Then in 2010 the Maasdam at the age of 17 years is replaced by the other Signature class ship. Now that does not address the ageing and small Prinsendam which has been covered by much speculation in another thread. I agree with Sail I much prefer those 1200 to 1300 passenger ships!:D

[dougnewmanatsea]

I would not expect to see any of these ships leave for at least another five years.

 

It's true that the "N" ships left when they were 17 (NIUEW AMSTERDAM) and 20 (NOORDAM) but keep in mind that the difference in amenities and "feel" between those ships and the S-class ships was far greater than between the S-class and the Vista-class.

 

The "N" ships had no suites, no balconies, no alternative dining, no indoor pool, no spa, and so on and so forth. They were in a completely different league from the S-class ships and did not fit in at all with HAL's brand positioning as a premium line. They were nice ships, but they didn't fit the mould.

 

The S-class ships are now nearing the age that NIEUW AMSTERDAM was when she was retired, and yet this is absolutely not the case with them. They offer virtually every amenity of the Vista-class ships, just in a smaller package. Even though STATENDAM is now 13, these ships remain very much up-to-date and competitive in the market.

 

I guess the difference is that when the S-class ships came out, they represented the cutting-edge of ship design in their market segment, offering all sorts of new innovations. They instantly made the "N" ships and other similar vessels look utterly obsolete at a very young age. The "N" ships, on the other hand, were built from a design that had basically been sitting around in a drawer for 10 years, and were already an ultra-traditional and somewhat outdated design even when they were brand new, which just made them age even faster. The S-class ships are standing the test of time far better, so while the "N" ships had basically become a drag on the HAL brand, being seriously deficient in features and amenities compared to the other HAL ships, the S-class vessels are in no danger of facing the same situation any time soon.

 

So I think the prognosis is very good for these ships; I would not expect to see them leave the fleet any time soon. Even if they "only" make it to 20 years as HAL ships, this would still give us seven years before STATENDAM would leave in 2013. I definitely do not expect either of the current Signature-class newbuilds to replace any of the S-class ships. In 2008, STATENDAM will only be 15 years old and will still be absolutely up-to-date in terms of what the market wants. While not new, the only real difference between the S-class ships and the newest ships is the size - and I think that is a testament to the original designers' ability to forsee what the market would want in the coming decades.

[sail7seas]

Thank you, Thank You, Thank you, Doug. :)

 

Just what I wanted to hear.

 

All you wrote makes perfect sense particularly when put into the context of the millions of dollars HAL just spent on the SOE upgrades for all these ships.

 

If they had plans to have them leave the fleet soon, it would not make sense to pour millions into them with the wonderful upgrades they designed and completed.

 

[RuthC]

Doug, I want to believe everything you wrote. I sure hope that the ships remain sailing as long as I can sail them. I love those smaller ships.

I think it's a bit funny every time I read how a poster wants to sail on a "new" ship, or thinks that a ship seven or eight years afloat is "old". Huh? These aren't cars, or outdated clothing hanging in the closet. Ships can---and have!---sailed for decades with happy passengers aboard.

Keeping my fingers crossed that the S-class ships do likewise.

[Pete&Cat]

I'm with you Sail, Cat and I sailed on the Statendam to Hawaii and back, and that wonderful ship will always be in my heart, so many friends made, so wonderful times :)

[Copper10-8]

I think Doug is right on with his assessment! I also think that the only current HAL ship we'll see leaving the fleet in the next 2-3 years will be Prinsendam

[arzz]

Thanks doug -- I would certainly like to believe that you are right -- The S class ships are my favorites, with R class close behind.

[mrskmirolla]

Doug I sure hope you are right. We were on the Zuiderdam lasst September, nice ship but I truly love the S class they just have such an elegant feel to them. I can hardly wait to get back to the Maasdam next Saturday.

 

Kathy

[RevNeal]

I agree entirely with Doug.

One notable factor is the amount of money, time, and manpower resources that HAL has poured into the S-class ships in their Signature of Excellence Upgrades. These upgrades may have more than doubled their life expectancy with the fleet. Given their elegance and modern features, plus the amount of money that has been invested to upgrade them, I would be surprised if they began leaving the fleet before they reach something like twice their current age.

 

One of the things I've seen repeatedly claimed by some is that HAL couldn't possibly add the Signature ships without retiring some of their older ships. But this argument is one that I've never understood ... there is NOTHING that requires HAL to have only a certain number of ships. HAL has expanded their fleet size again and again. Adding a couple of Signature class ships is certainly no reason to retire the S-class ships. Given how popular these vessels are, I just don't see it happening. It's not as if HAL is having trouble selling these ships, nor are they about to run up against safety regulations which they cannot meet.

[kryos]

I agree too with Doug. HAL isn't going to pour a ton of money into older ships for Signature of Excellence upgrades if they are planning to retire those ships anytime soon.

 

There's a lot of life left in those S and R class ships ... and there are a lot of "old school" HAL passengers who don't want to sail the new mega ships. So, personally, I think that as long as there are significant numbers of people wanting to sail the S and R class ships, HAL will keep them afloat.

 

There's an entirely separate market out there for the Vista and larger ships. So, HAL can have their cake and eat it too ... build the big ships for the family cruising market, and still have the smaller ships for those loyal Mariners that won't sail anything else. Now, of course, the day will come ... hopefully very far in the future ... when the primary market will be the younger cruiser ... and they will want nothing less that a large ship with all the ammenities. Then, and only then, will you see HAL retiring all those smaller ships. I just hope I'm long past my cruising years when that happens. :)

 

As a sidenote ... look how old the QE2 is ... and it's still sailing.

 

For what it cost to build a new ship ... especially a big one ... I'd bet HAL will drydock those older babies as much as necessary to upgrade them and keep them afloat for as many years to come as there are people wanting to sail them.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Krazy Kruizers]

I keep thinking that when the first new Signature Class ships debuts in 2008, the Maasdam will be sold seeing as she has had so many engine problems the last few years - not to mention air conditioing and plumbing problems.

[dougnewmanatsea]

As a sidenote ... look how old the QE2 is ... and it's still sailing.

And soon, with you aboard :) ! You lucky woman... HAL one way, Cunard the other. Best of both worlds :) !

 

2007 is a big year - QE2 will technically be 38 years old but nonetheless it is the "40th anniversary" as it was in 1967 that she was actually launched by the Queen.

 

(Today, ships are named after they're finished. In the old days when ships were launched down slipways - rather than just floated out of drydock - the naming ceremony usually took place at the physical launching of the ship.)

 

I wonder if they will have another 40th anniversary ceremony in 2009?

 

She is already the longest-serving Cunarder ever and has sailed more miles than any other ship in history! Pretty impressive.

 

So see, QE2 is more than twice the age of any of HAL's current ships - even PRINSENDAM! - and she is still going strong! And ROTTERDAM of 1959 was in the HAL fleet for 38 years. The S-class ships are "just broken in"!

[gizmo]

I keep thinking that when the first new Signature Class ships debuts in 2008, the Maasdam will be sold seeing as she has had so many engine problems the last few years - not to mention air conditioing and plumbing problems.

 

I was wondering how much of this is actually fixed or did they just do a "patch" job to keep the ship going ?

 

I looked at a cruise for 2007. I liked the itinerary, but it is the Maasdam and because of all the "off and on problems " it would be like a crap shoot to book this ship.

[imacrusing]

"There's a lot of life left in those S and R class ships ... and there are a lot of "old school" HAL passengers who don't want to sail the new mega ships. So, personally, I think that as long as there are significant numbers of people wanting to sail the S and R class ships, HAL will keep them afloat"

 

 

 

I just know that when the S Class ships are gone..I will too..will NEVER sail these big monster ships...I love the 1200 size ships and less kids on them...these ships have a target group and it appears there are enough of us to fill those ships for awhile yet...

 

Just my humble opinion

[noblepa]

One of the things that has driven the development of ever larger ships, both in HAL and other lines, is that it is economically less expensive, per passenger, to own and operate the larger ships.

 

Right now, the cruise market is doing well. Some would even say it is booming. If something should happen, such as another (God forbid) 9/11 type attack or the continued increase in petroleum prices, that changes the market and causes a recession in the cruise industry, then the smaller ships will probably be the first to go. They're the oldest and their construction costs are probably fully amortized by now.

 

Paul Noble

[TedC]

I also agree with Doug - but, more importantly, I hope HAL (and Carnival) bigwigs read Doug's post and also agree with him that it makes sense to keep S and R ships sailing.

 

 

Is it just me, or are there others who have a gut feeling that Vista ships may not age as gracefully as the S and R ships?

 

Interesting thread.

[jhannah]

Is it just me, or are there others who have a gut feeling that Vista ships may not age as gracefully as the S and R ships?

That's an interesting question, Ted. While technology has improved greatly over the years, there are some things that have not improved in the durable goods line. For instance, if you replace your 40 year old washer, dryer or refrigerator today, the salesman or installer, if they're up front, will probably comment that your new unit will not likely last as long. They're just built with different materials and methods today. They're more efficient, lighter in weight, etc. But those thinner, lighter materials simply fatigue more quickly than the heavier stuff of yester-year.

 

I have no knowledge of shipbuilding materials/methods/techiniques. But it just might be possible that thinner/lighter materials used today for fuel efficiency reasons just might degrade more quickly than the materials in the older ships.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I also agree with Doug - but, more importantly, I hope HAL (and Carnival) bigwigs read Doug's post and also agree with him that it makes sense to keep S and R ships sailing.

 

 

Is it just me, or are there others who have a gut feeling that Vista ships may not age as gracefully as the S and R ships?

 

Interesting thread.

 

Ted, I somewhat agree with you. My thought went immediately to comparing them to people those that live their life as a party hardy all the time tend to look a lot older where someone that takes life a bit slower may look years younger. ( Living in Las Vegas I have other terms I would use but felt I would use a bit kinder wordage here;) )

[sail7seas]

There's an entirely separate market out there for the Vista and larger ships. So, HAL can have their cake and eat it too ... build the big ships for the family cruising market, and still have the smaller ships for those loyal Mariners that won't sail anything else.

 

 

And, then there are those of us who Get our Cake and Eat it too.......those of us who love both style of ships. We have always loved the "S" class but also very much like the Vistas. :)

 

When we first went to Zuiderdam, we only went out of curiousity and because we had friends aboard with whom we wanted to sail. We Never expected to like that ship at all. After being aboard less than a day, we were won over. The final evolution of the Vistas that ended with the arrival of Noordam, produced a magnificent ship IMO Noordam is Fabulous!!!

 

So.....sometimes we feel like an "S" and sometimes we feel like a Vista. ;) -----or an "R" or a "V" :)

 

 

 

 

[Randyk47]

Regardless of when they finally sell off the S or R class it will be a sad day for us. I guess we'll reach the point where we see the Vista class as the small and cozy ships we love but our hearts will always go back to the Ryndam and Volendam as our favorites. :)

[Krazy Kruizers]

gizmo

 

We are like you - we have wondered just how much of a "patch" job they are doing on the Maasdam. We like a couple of her 2007 itineraries but won't book them because of her past history these last couple of years.

[jhannah]

We like a couple of her 2007 itineraries but won't book them because of her past history these last couple of years.

I think you'll be okay on the Maasdam. At least until Maasdam reviews start coming in sounding like Brian's Mercury report! :D

[gizmo]

gizmo

 

We are like you - we have wondered just how much of a "patch" job they are doing on the Maasdam. We like a couple of her 2007 itineraries but won't book them because of her past history these last couple of years.

 

We usually only cruise once a year and hate to take a chance on a ship that has a history of those types of problems.

 

The Sea of Cortez on the Ryndam looks better each day. :)