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[larry3706]

Here is a different take on the lost crew member on the Legend crossing. Scuttlebutt was very clear that he was despondent and almost did not reboard in the Canaries. While they searched the ship, it is not certain that he ever did jump overboard. I was completely in agreement with a search at sea from the last known sighting of him. But I do not agree with the Seabourn decision to search an extra day beyond the first day. Anyone who has spent any time at sea would know that is futile. Clearly they did not expect him to be wearing a pfd as the search was suspended at night and all of the pfd's have strobes. As a result, the outcome was predictable. Seabourn did not cover my phone costs, as another has posted, I got tired of wrestling with them. My business and personal plans were completely messed up for no reason. Why not search a third day or longer, if you feel an extended search is necessary? My personal belief is that the 9 hours of daylight search the first day was needed and appropriate. After that, it was time to get on with the consequences. While the cruise was wonderful until then, I cannot support Seabourn's decision to search the second day and the resultant consequences to the passengers. I have canceled my future cruise with them and will not sail with them again.

[CASHIPman]

Well, this is an interesting post.

 

Does anyone know if there's a minimum mandatory amount of time that a ship must search for someone presumed overboard?

 

I would say, just because the person was despondent you can't assume they are suicidal. Since you can't make that assumption, you do need to assume that they want to be rescued. As such...a full and thorough search needs to be carried out.

 

You may think 9 hours is enough. I'd hazard to guess that his family would differ with you strongly.

 

There are many reasons to cancel future cruises with any line...the fact that the ship searched for a missing person is, in my not-so-humble opinion, not one of them.

[CruisinMatt]

It's too bad the scuttlebutt even reaches the passengers.

 

I wasn't there, so my opinion is completely irrelavant, but I think that if they would have stopped the search after 9 hours there would have been outrage from the other crew and passengers since they were reportedly so closely involved.

 

Compensation is another matter and I think you should try and recoup your expenses. I have never heard of Seabourn denying anyone of that.

[SchnauzerPup]

I really feel the need to reply to this post. The likelyhood of survival in the water is based almost soley on the ambient water temperature. Hypothermic reaction is almost universally the initiating factor leading to mortality in this situation. The following is from the coast guard and is the accepted norm:

 

Hypothermia Chart

If the Water

Temp. (F) is:

Exhaustion or

Unconsciousness

Expected Time

of Survival is:

32.5

Under 15 min.

Under 15 - 45 min.

32.5 - 40

15 - 30 min.

30 - 90 min

40 - 50

30 - 60 min.

1 - 3 hours

50 - 60

1 - 2 hours

1 - 6 hours

60 - 70

2 - 7 hours

2 - 40 hours

70 - 80

3 - 12 hours

3 - Indefinite

Over 80

Indefinite

Indefinite

Given the nominal water temperatures in the region in question 9 hours would have been premature.

 

On a more personal level I would ask all of you here on the boards for a favor. The day you hear me say that my business obligations and convenience are more important than the life of another human being, no matter how low the odds, you have my permission to slap me right in the face and bring me back to my senses.

 

If you find this reply inappropriate I am sorry. I will post no further in this thread but move on to happier thoughts.

[JaneBP]

>" In accordance with international law, we are required to search during the daylight hours for two days until the crewmember is found or the search is aborted."

 

The above was posted previously. And may I assume if it was a loved one of Larry's that was missing, despondent or not, he would also feel this way?

 

Thanks, Craig, Matt and Schnauzer.

 

What a wonderful day today to be reminded of our blessings. (And you in other countries please join us as well!)

 

Jane

[Daneite]

I very nearly did not reply to this thread as I was disgusted BUT being moved to tears again at the thought of what we all went through I just cannot let this go. Please Host Dan read this kindly as it is not meant as an attack just our thoughts on it.

Nelson was distraught in the Canaries but decided to carry on, we were told by a Senior Officer that with the water temperature at that time he could survive for 36 hours and so the Captain searched for that amount of time and quite rightly so in our opinion. We could not search for just that first day and then say "oh well, lets forget him and get on with having a great time!" A lot of the crew spent the whole night looking out for him as the ship had spotlights directly on the water. A lot of passengers spent the full two days sitting watching and hoping that we would find him, although I am ashamed to say that there were one or two able bodied passengers who just sat on deck reading despite the Captain pleading on more than one occasion for our help in the search. Our plans were spoiled too but hey, we are still alive and that is all that matters. Seabourn acted swiftly in changing our flight, even though we had not booked it through them, they also telephoned our hotel and driver to let them know we would not be there as arranged. We have lost the night in the hotel as it was non transferable.If the ship had broken down and we were late, then we would be seeking compensation, but this was not Seabourn's fault. They did cover the costs of phone calls but maybe that was because we spoke nicely and did not "wrestle" with them at all. There was a memorial service held on the night the search was called off and it was an extremely moving experience, anyone who witnessed the Captain so distraught at losing "one of his sheep" and was not moved to tears must be made of stone. We will be sailing Seabourn again and again and again!

Kathryn and Brian

[wripro]

If anything, the fact that Seabourn spent an extra day searching for the crew member would make me book all the more cruises with them. It shows that they value the life of their crew, that we are all family when aboard the triplets. Messed up business plans are a sorry excuse for giving up the search for a human life. If a family member of the OP's had gone missing I wonder if he would have been content with a 9 hour search!!!!

[wripro]

If anything, the fact that Seabourn spent an extra day searching for the crew member would make me book all the more cruises with them. It shows that they value the life of their crew, that we are all family when aboard the triplets. Messed up business plans are a sorry excuse for giving up the search for a human life. If a family member of the OP's had gone missing I wonder if he would have been content with a 9 hour search!!!!

[norm2002]

I very nearly did not reply to this thread as I was disgusted BUT being moved to tears again at the thought of what we all went through I just cannot let this go.

Kathryn

I couldn't agree more with you. I wasn't going to post any more about the tragic event because to me this was like a family bereavement for the crew and most of the passengers and not one to air publicly. We had daily been told that the water temperature was about the same as the air temperature, around 26 to 27 deg C, about 80 deg F. If I had been told that the chances of survival were good up to 36 hours but that Seabourn had chosen to end the search after 9 hours, I would have been horrified. Yes, I got back to London this morning, a day late, and missed something important I should have been at last night but should I say that my convenience is more important than the chance of saving the life of a young man bringing up a 9 year old son? I will never forget the moving ceremony as we eventually abandoned the search. I will never again be able to see such a beautiful sunset as we had that night without remembering that night and Nelson, the Captain and Nelson's cousin. I have a beautiful photo of the ceremony which the Captain is going to give to Nelson's family but I will not be posting the picture here or on my website. I am not going to help make this into some kind of public spectacle. And yes, Seabourn refunded my small amount of satellite call charges. I only had to mention it once and it was immediately dealt with.

I will never meet Nelson's son Eric but if I did I would not be able to look him in the eye if I had thought that we had ended the search early to avoid temporary inconvenience or expense to a few passengers.

I may not be being too lucid at the moment and I apologise. I have now been up for about 36 hours (now there's a coincidence) apart from dozing on the plane and I now need some sleep.

Please can we let this awful tragedy rest.

[CeeJay11]

Thank you Kathryn and Norman for your posts. You have said it all so well. Seabourn truly is a family and you don't let a family member go without doing everything possible, which is exactly what was done. In our minds, there will never be any other cruise line but Seabourn after seeing how well all of this was handled. God forbid that we should leave a family member if there is any chance just because someone has a business meeting or event they don't want to miss!

Your posts brought the tears flowing again and also the warm feelings we have for this wonderful Captain, crew and cruise line.

[nancygp]

Although I have not had the opportunity to sail on Seabourn as of yet, I am so impressed with how Seabourn handled this unfortunate situation. My heart goes out to all the Seabourn family. Happy Thanksgiving and we all have so much to be thankful for.

 

Nancy

 

PS. I have only posted on Crystal for the mostpart so I don't want to be perceived as an interloper on Seabourn.

[crystal808]

Nancy:

 

Your posts are always welcomed here.

 

It will be a privilege for me to join the crew of the Legend in March for a brief visit. The experience of "family" aboard Seabourn is, unfortunately, no more evident than with this unfathomable, and tremendously sad, event.

 

The family of the missing crewmember will be in my thoughts for a long time to come.

 

Happy Thanksgiving to all sailors...

Paul

[garycarla]

While previous posts appear to indicate that two day is the "appropriate" time, I am sure the spouse or parent of someone lost overboard would scream up and down that one more day should be required, and then one more, etc.etc.

 

Though one could always argue the search should continue for days or weeks, reality must take over at some point. Just the way it is.

 

But to be this upset over two days, well, to each his own.

 

 

 

But to

[sue marco]

How sad that the OP feels sufficiently inconvenienced that he is not cruising Seabourn again. To my mind the whole incident was handled with great care, and in a very correct way. A man overboard is a man lost at sea regardless of the circumstances, and, as such, honour and fellow human feeling would surely mean that we should search until all possible hope is lost. Yes, it put a damper on our much anticipated trip. Yes, we lost most of the happy-go-lucky atmosphere on board for the remainder of the cruise. Would I have it any other way? Definitely NOT! It restores my faith in human nature seeing the care and compassion with which we searched - not just the Captain and crew, but also the guests - well most of us! I'd rather sail with a line like Seabourn - and I will - than one that just keeps as closely as possible to its timetable. Seabourn Legend, and all who sail in her, I'm proud of you. Sue.

[Keith1010]

I am so sorry that such a tragic event occured on this voyage. With that said, I am proud of the approach that Seabourn took which was to do the right thing in hopes that a tragedy could be avoided. Clearly, doing a thorough search in hopes of saving someones life is the right thing to do.

 

I have always said that the atmosphere on a Seabourn cruise is very unique given how passenger's and crew bond with one another and always show great concern for one another no matter what the issue is and clearly this is an example of doing the right thing regardless of any inconvenience this might pose for the cruise line or some individuals.

 

Thank you Sebourn for showing such good sense and judgement in doing a thorough search in the hopes that a tragedy could possibly have been avoided.

 

Keith

[bgood]

As a matter of fact, the decision to remain overnight and search a second day was not really Seabourn's nor the captain's. Once the man overboard alert had been issued to the proper authorities, they assumed command of the S&A operation and Legend became one of a number of elements in the operation. Seabourn Legend was not free to abandon the search even if that had been their wish. The authorities used the tables (so generously supplied by Schnauzerpup above), and established a possible survival window of 36 hours. They designed a search grid and Legend sailed it. Night visibility being what it is, they drifted to avoid running over the man should they encounter him--presumably they would all drift more or less together. In the morning they resumed the search until dark. Then, due to the estimated survival window having expired and to the fuel supply needed to reach the next port, the authorities released the ship to continue on its course. It had been joined by another vessel, which was also commanded to join the search. They were not "family" in the same sense, but all hands fall to for those in peril on the sea.

 

These things are done because it helps to have an overview of all available resources in an emergency. It also relieves from judgement those who may, quite rightly, be overly affected by emotion. Seamen know how to follow orders and when to surrender command for the greater good.

 

The officers, staff , crew and guests of Seabourn Legend did precisely the right thing. I would have expected nothing less of any of you, which is why I am proud to know you.

 

bgood

[bmwlover]

My wife and I were aboard the Legend Transatlantic 17 day crossing. In reading larry3706 unfeeling response to this tragic turn of events, I am certainly glad that none of us ever have to concern ourselves with encountering him again aboard a Seabourn vessel. We have nothing but positive accolades for the captain , officers and crew of the Legend.